Super Bowl LVII

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

It's one of those calls that happens throughout the year and didn't determine the outcome of the game.
What did determine the outcome?
How about Jalen Hurts unforced fumble and resulting scoop and score. 7 Points
How about the bad punt and big punt return. 7 Points
How about one TD by KC where the Defense didn't adjust followed by the same play to the other side where the Defense did the same thing. At least 7 points.

So there's 21 points that were determined by the Eagles failures and not the Refs.

Everyone knows this; it has been mentioned. The entire game determines the outcome of the game. Doesn't mean that last flag was a good call and not necessarily the right call given how the game was called in its entirety.

And if the Eagles were responsible for the position they were in, so were the Chiefs. Why didn't they play well enough to not need that break? They really should have played better if they did not want to be in a position to need a penalty flag.

[NorthHawk]

There's an old adage that coaches say and it's magnified by playoff games and it goes something like this:

Games aren't won by the team making the best plays, they're won by the team making the fewest mistakes.
The Eagles made more mistakes including the holding call near the end than KC did.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

That's great. Not disputing it. Haven't disputed it.

Doesn't take anything away from the fact they need to call the game consistently.

These two observations aren't mutually exclusive.

[Hawktawk]

Hurts set 2 or 3 super bowl records too and there’s a reason the game was tied . Set up for an epic finish .

And you’re not getting my point or that of about 90% of fans not from Missouri .

Sure you can call it . But you haven’t called it all night . A stronger case could have been made for pi on the overturned helmet catch as the guy is draped all over him leading to the need for a 1 handed catch that took 5 minutes to overturn on the clear and convincing evidence . I’m with Greg Olsen , Jason Whitlock , 90 % of football fans . It was bs to move the strike zone in the bottom of the 9th

And I’ve seen suggestions they were all paranoid about the saints game 4 years ago . It just proves my point . In that case several officials clearly saw the worst PI in playoff history , one grabbed his flag , another gestured and no flag came out , the most intentional screw job since the unnamed super bowl .

So supposedly the guy is so paranoid about a play from 4 years earlier nobody got punished for he flags a ticky tack foul to end the game. No flag to extend the game for Rams .

Same thing . Refs deciding games . Many examples all the time . Cincinnnaati was hosed down the stretch last year vs the Rams , to their credit they almost won .
But terrible inconsistent officiating in this league is a real thing .

[Hawktawk]

Regarding this field I read an interesting stat . Philly had someone slip on 38%! Of Mahomes drop backs . On 5 of those occasions multiple players slipped . KC had 5 total incidences of slipping , 1 player each time .

An odd stat for sure . Was KC more prepared playing on bad grass at arrowhead while Philly was on turf ? did the routes KC was running create slips with counter action ? I heard Philly went to long cleats while KC didn’t . But for whatever reason statistically the field affected Philly far more .

It’s a disgrace . It should not be a topic for discussion in this league .surely in the world championship. One more thing on the topic of this game . I hear people rag on Philly cause they couldn’t slow down Kelcie . Who exactly slows down Kelcie ? I have seen almost nobody slow him down on a good field . Sometimes I think some Monday morning qbs ought to pad up and see how it is .
.

[Aseahawkfan]

There's an old adage that coaches say and it's magnified by playoff games and it goes something like this:

Games aren't won by the team making the best plays, they're won by the team making the fewest mistakes.
The Eagles made more mistakes including the holding call near the end than KC did.

Yep.

[RiverDog]

There's an old adage that coaches say and it's magnified by playoff games and it goes something like this:

Games aren't won by the team making the best plays, they're won by the team making the fewest mistakes.
The Eagles made more mistakes including the holding call near the end than KC did.

There's another old adage: It's not how you start, it's how you finish. The Chiefs outscored the Eagles 24-11 in the second half, and 17-8 in the 4th quarter.

[Hawktawk]

The eagles won the first half . They couldn’t stop Hurts he set super bowl records . It was tied when the ref turned it into a kneel down fest . I saw KC didn’t get any of their 3 penalties in the second half . If I could stomach watching the turd again I’m sure there were times in that second half there were fouls let go . We know they held like a Mf at the end of the Cincy game . But not surprising the storied Hunt lineage gets another . Goodell was hugging KC players so lovingly they needed to get a room , happy as anyone on that sideline .
Terrible Super Bowl . An embarrassment to the league but the sheeple don’t care .

[NorthHawk]

The SB was fun.
I don’t care who won so there’s no emotional quotient to my observations.
As far as bad calls go, it was a penalty as the rules currently are and any player putting himself in that position at that point in the game is taking a huge gamble. He lost big time on this one.

[jshawaii22]

On one of the talking head shows today, they showed the same defensive back grabbing the same receivers jersey earlier in the game... much more obvious, too... and it wasn't called then.
The game was one of the cleanest games and very well played. The refs swallowed their whistles for 57 minutes. No one knows why that one. And they could of picked it up. Doesn't mean the Eagles would win but it sure made the last minute anticlimactic.

I can't complain and not much else to say as my wife and I finally get to spend the $$$ we had bet on the Chiefs. The on-line gambling web site William-Hill crashed just into the game and just came back on-line tonight. Lots of very pissed off people around Vegas. If you lived out of state where it's illegal and had to go home after the game, you'll have to come back to Vegas to get your $$$...

[Aseahawkfan]

The SB was fun.
I don’t care who won so there’s no emotional quotient to my observations.
As far as bad calls go, it was a penalty as the rules currently are and any player putting himself in that position at that point in the game is taking a huge gamble. He lost big time on this one.

What did you think of the Eagles offense?

[RiverDog]

On one of the talking head shows today, they showed the same defensive back grabbing the same receivers jersey earlier in the game... much more obvious, too... and it wasn't called then.
The game was one of the cleanest games and very well played. The refs swallowed their whistles for 57 minutes. No one knows why that one. And they could of picked it up. Doesn't mean the Eagles would win but it sure made the last minute anticlimactic.

It's hard to say what catches your eye and when. I can remember pheasant hunting once, and a bird flushed which appeared to be a hen (all brown feathers) which are illegal to shoot, but an instinct told me to pull the trigger. I hit the bird on my first shot and immediately thought to myself "you idiot, you just shot a hen!". But when I got to the bird, I could see that it was a young rooster as there was some coloring starting to emerge in the feathers.

It depends on what the ref is looking at, the angle he's looking at it from, lighting conditions, motion, and probably 3 or 4 other factors I haven't thought of that triggers the human mind to cause something to stick out and evoke a certain action. There's also the factor of coaches and players complaining and getting in their ears or the crew chief telling him he should have thrown the flag. All that stuff can have an effect. Point is that you can't automatically assume that the ref is corrupt simply because he threw a flag in one situation and decided to keep it in his pocket on a similar one. They're only human.

I can't complain and not much else to say as my wife and I finally get to spend the $$$ we had bet on the Chiefs. The on-line gambling web site William-Hill crashed just into the game and just came back on-line tonight. Lots of very pissed off people around Vegas. If you lived out of state where it's illegal and had to go home after the game, you'll have to come back to Vegas to get your $$$...

Wow, I'll bet people were pissed. It's odd why some of these websites are crashing. Can't they anticipate the types of volume they're likely to get?

When I went to the Raiders-Hawks game in Seattle last December, the Ticketmaster website crashed, and people were unable to download the tickets they had purchased. 4 of us were fortunate enough to have bought our tickets through Stub Hub, but the other 5 in our group had bought them via Ticketmaster. They finally got the website up and running about 3-4 hours before kickoff or else they would have had another Taylor Swift controversy on their hands.

[NorthHawk]

What did you think of the Eagles offense?

Their Offense was pretty good. Good enough to win most games with a couple of plays they probably want back. Hurts made some fantastic throws but their run game got stuffed outside of short yardage.
The Jalen Hurts fumble was a big one and later in the game with 3rd and just a couple they tried to throw instead of running the ball which ended up as an incomplete pass. This after going something like 6 for 6 on their last short
yardage plays over a few games and in this game pushing the KC DL backwards a couple of times. But it was a game of errors and breaks as all games are. KC got some breaks and the Eagles made more errors.

[NorthHawk]

It depends on what the ref is looking at, the angle he's looking at it from, lighting conditions, motion, and probably 3 or 4 other factors I haven't thought of that triggers the human mind to cause something to stick out and evoke a certain action. There's also the factor of coaches and players complaining and getting in their ears or the crew chief telling him he should have thrown the flag. All that stuff can have an effect. Point is that you can't automatically assume that the ref is corrupt simply because he threw a flag in one situation and decided to keep it in his pocket on a similar one. They're only human.

In that other play, it could be that the Ref was distracted for a millisecond just when it happened as they don't just focus on one player matchup - or maybe the play that was called meant that a player flashed in front of him at just the wrong time.
It's also not out of the realm of possibility that he just didn't call it, too. But those things happen in all sports, every year and probably every game.

[c_hawkbob]

Yeah, the non-tin foil hat assumption would be he call the one he saw and didn't call the one he didn't see.

[RiverDog]

Here's a comment from a former NFL official that is closest to summing up my own opinion on the matter of the last holding call and the officiating in general:

“We’re taught on the field that when we see a jersey pulled, that’s holding, and that jersey was pulled 6 to 8 inches,” former NFL official Larry Nemmers said.

Nemmers tells OzarksFirst he wouldn’t have made that call. “Yes, it was it was controversial,” Nemmers said. “In retrospect, you know, when you have time to think about it, would I have called that? Probably not, but I understand where that official was coming from.”

It’s a choice that could have one local Eagles fan wishing Nemmers had been on the field Sunday night. “I don’t like it, but I did see him [pull the jersey], so I feel like technically it is holding,” Logan Keys said. “I don’t like the call, but you know, I’m not going to be against it.”

Keys says he felt the game changed on that penalty. “You know I just think it made it anti-climactic,” Keys said. “It was a really, really close game, but it could have even been closer and more ended on a higher note.”

Nemmers says he felt the officiating Sunday night was good and shouldn’t be summed up by one call. “We have a tendency as fans to remember the ones that are made at the end of the game as opposed to those that are made in the first 15 minutes of the first, second, or third quarters,” Nemmers said. “They let them play and both teams played really well.”

He adds the referees didn’t win the game for Kansas City or lose it for the Eagles. “When you look at games that are won or lost, usually the teams that have time of possession and most yardage win most of those games and that didn’t occur in the Super Bowl,” Nemmers said.

https://www.ozarksfirst.com/news/would- ... lvii-call/

One comment about the time of possession stat. The Eagles got an extra possession and the Chiefs one fewer in the first half via the scoop and score Hurts' fumble. Add 5 minutes to the Chiefs' TOP and take 5 off of Philly's and it pretty much equals out.

[NorthHawk]

The rules are so skewed towards the Offense that these types of calls are going to cause controversy. As it stands, it's the correct call but that rule isn't a good one.
If it said something like the hold re-routed the receiver or physically held him up then it could be acceptable, but you can run alongside a player and tug on his jersey without consequences to the receiver but still be in violation of the rule.
It's all part of what I've called the Lawyering of the Rule Book.

From the tin foil hat side, maybe the NFL likes this kind on controversy as it continues to keep the league in the forefront of public discussion. Any publicity is good publicity, I suppose.

[RiverDog]

The rules are so skewed towards the Offense that these types of calls are going to cause controversy. As it stands, it's the correct call but that rule isn't a good one.
If it said something like the hold re-routed the receiver or physically held him up then it could be acceptable, but you can run alongside a player and tug on his jersey without consequences to the receiver but still be in violation of the rule.
It's all part of what I've called the Lawyering of the Rule Book.

From the tin foil hat side, maybe the NFL likes this kind on controversy as it continues to keep the league in the forefront of public discussion. Any publicity is good publicity, I suppose.

But the problem with adding the criteria to defensive holding that you have to cause a re-routing of the receiver is that it makes it more ambiguous. At least a jersey tug is pretty cut and dried. Jersey tugs are also used in determining offensive holding, too, and it helps to keep things consistent if the same criteria is used on both sides of the ball.

[Aseahawkfan]

Their Offense was pretty good. Good enough to win most games with a couple of plays they probably want back. Hurts made some fantastic throws but their run game got stuffed outside of short yardage.
The Jalen Hurts fumble was a big one and later in the game with 3rd and just a couple they tried to throw instead of running the ball which ended up as an incomplete pass. This after going something like 6 for 6 on their last short
yardage plays over a few games and in this game pushing the KC DL backwards a couple of times. But it was a game of errors and breaks as all games are. KC got some breaks and the Eagles made more errors.

Both offenses were high performing and the one that made more mistakes lost for sure.

My buddy pointed out a video of Jalen Hurts squatting 600 lbs. That is one strong QB. He often times seems like a RB that can play QB where as Mahomes seems like a QB that can run. QBs that run that much worry me because someone is eventually going to put a brutal hit on them. Will their game hold up if they can't run?

[NorthHawk]

Hurts is crazy strong. I would think it’s why their QB sneaks are so successful. That and a very good OL.
But his throwing was on point on Sunday, too.

[RiverDog]

Hurts is crazy strong. I would think it’s why their QB sneaks are so successful. That and a very good OL.
But his throwing was on point on Sunday, too.

I think the Eagles are successful on QB sneaks due more to the latter than the former. That entire OL moves even good defenses 5 yards off the LOS on short yardage situations.

[Hawktawk]

Fun fact . Carl Cheffers crew had not called a defensive holding penalty since Christmas Eve in the bears bills game , a span of 576 offensive snaps .

Just listen to Bradbury . “ I grabbed him , I THOUGHT THE REF WOULD LET IT SLIDE”


Why did he think that ? The answer is obvious . He’d been allowed to play more physically all game then the play in question. They hadn’t called a hold in a month .

It’s a setup . Intentional ? Naw not necessarily . But at some point how come they make 250 k for a part time job and they are either calling ticky tack stuff or “missing “ big fouls. Sounds like this crew was missing or not calling holding for a month of games . I’m sure it was in the team scouting report .

There’s a problem with officiating but I agree with north . Goodell likes it this way . There’s no other explanation.

[RiverDog]

Fun fact . Carl Cheffers crew had not called a defensive holding penalty since Christmas Eve in the bears bills game , a span of 576 offensive snaps .

Just listen to Bradbury . “ I grabbed him , I THOUGHT THE REF WOULD LET IT SLIDE”


Why did he think that ? The answer is obvious . He’d been allowed to play more physically all game then the play in question. They hadn’t called a hold in a month .

It’s a setup . Intentional ? Naw not necessarily . But at some point how come they make 250 k for a part time job and they are either calling ticky tack stuff or “missing “ big fouls. Sounds like this crew was missing or not calling holding for a month of games . I’m sure it was in the team scouting report .

There’s a problem with officiating but I agree with north . Goodell likes it this way . There’s no other explanation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5aW08ivHU

[Hawktawk]

So the fact they hadn’t called it in a month and let worse go , didn’t call an offensive hold in the game didn’t bother you
It demonstrates incompetence , inconsistency . Not attaching the conspiracy theory so much to this but they moved the goalposts . Very bad . If you’re gonna call it call it . Don’t wait till the games on the line with zero influence on the route and a ball well overthrown .

You’re among a distinct minority of fans who approve of nfl officiating or that call in particular including a ref you shared . Twilight zone indeed . You would know .

[NorthHawk]

Incompetence and inconsistency have been issues for years. I doubt it will ever change and it crosses all sports.
At this point I think it's just part of the human condition and without malice or intent.

[ACES 13]

The SB was fun.
I don’t care who won so there’s no emotional quotient to my observations.
As far as bad calls go, it was a penalty as the rules currently are and any player putting himself in that position at that point in the game is taking a huge gamble. He lost big time on this one.

I have to totally agree with all of this! I would add that it's a really good game to watch but a huge let down with that kind of an ending. In the end the better team won.

[obiken]

Honestly, some of you guys get too hung up on the officiating.

I can't remember who said it, but I was listening to a commentary a week or so before the game and they said that there wouldn't be very many turnovers but that the game would be decided by one, and they were exactly right. The difference in the game is the one scoop and score off of Hurts' fumble. It was the only turnover of the game. Otherwise, Philly won the statistical battle, with more first downs, more yards gained, more TOP, better on 3rd/4th down conversions, etc.

Super Bowl V, I bet 100 I was 15, and winning that money over Dallas was great, even though the game was a blunder bowl.

[RiverDog]

Super Bowl V, I bet 100 I was 15, and winning that money over Dallas was great, even though the game was a blunder bowl.

Holy cow, Obi! You had $100 to bet at 15 years old? I don't think I had ever seen that much money in cash until I was in my 20's let alone betting that much.

[obiken]

Holy cow, Obi! You had $100 to bet at 15 years old? I don't think I had ever seen that much money in cash until I was in my 20's let alone betting that much.

I know huh, that was the most I ever bet and the first big win I ever had. I saved 3 months of my paper route money.

[RiverDog]

Holy cow, Obi! You had $100 to bet at 15 years old? I don't think I had ever seen that much money in cash until I was in my 20's let alone betting that much.

I know huh, that was the most I ever bet and the first big win I ever had. I saved 3 months of my paper route money.

Now that's funny! Three months of slinging newspapers before school, huh? So what did you do with your winnings?

[Hawktawk]

The SB was fun.
I don’t care who won so there’s no emotional quotient to my observations.
As far as bad calls go, it was a penalty as the rules currently are and any player putting himself in that position at that point in the game is taking a huge gamble. He lost big time on this one.

"Aces
I have to totally agree with all of this! I would add that it's a really good game to watch but a huge let down with that kind of an ending. In the end the better team won. [/quote]

It sucked. It was awesome for 58 minutes till that ref threw A FLAG THAT CREW HADN'T THROWN IN 576 SNAPS to turn an epic finish to a kneel down contest. Most boring ending ever.
I despise the officials. Terrible. Worst of any pro sport. The bargain I've made to not just walk away from the sport is to accept its not a legitimate sport anymore. Its a cross between sport and WWF. Watched a team that needed no help get plenty this year.