Penny signs with Eagles

[trents]

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ezekiel- ... on-3-teams

It was mentioned incidentally in the above linked article. First I'd heard of it. It caught me by surprise but as I think about it, it does make sense from a salary cap perspective with the emergence of KB3 and Penny's injury proneness.

[obiken]

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ezekiel-elliott-narrowed-down-free-agent-decision-3-teams

It was mentioned incidentally in the above linked article. First I'd heard of it. It caught me by surprise but as I think about it, it does make sense from a salary cap perspective with the emergence of KB3 and Penny's injury proneness.

Its the injuries Trent, for me, thats it, otherwise he is a helluva back. If he was an NBA player he would be on load management. There are just some players that have the injury bug. EG. Marcus Tubbs, Anthony Simmons, and him. I want a Running back as fast as Joey Galloway, and as tough as Lynch!! Lol

[RiverDog]

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ezekiel-elliott-narrowed-down-free-agent-decision-3-teams

It was mentioned incidentally in the above linked article. First I'd heard of it. It caught me by surprise but as I think about it, it does make sense from a salary cap perspective with the emergence of KB3 and Penny's injury proneness.

Yeah, we discussed it earlier in the week. What was surprising was how skimpy the contract was. Travis Homer signed a much better deal with the Bears, so one has to surmise that the driving factor for Penny was playing for a team that had a legitimate shot at the SB. Plus, it makes you wonder if we even made an offer to Penny at all, or if he didn't consider our chances of becoming competitive as being all that good and opted for Philly's low ball offer instead.

It closes a chapter on one of the more notable failures (I won't upset HT by calling him a bust) of recent first round draft picks, of which includes LJ Collier, who just signed with the Cards, that, for one reason or another, didn't live up to expectations.

Hopefully, the 2022 and 2023 draft classes break that trend.

[Oly]

I really don't know what to make of Penny. He was durable in college and several of his injuries with the Hawks were fluky. When that Saints defender rolled up on his ankle, that's not on Penny at all. I seem to remember the big injury before that was similar. I know how injuries can pile up and make them more injury prone in the future, but it has always felt to me that Penny could break out of that injury rut at any time and live up to his potential. Then he keeps getting unlucky. Like I said, I don't know what to make of him.

I can see why he wanted a change of scenery, and some comments he made suggested that this was his reason for moving to the Eagles rather than anything about the Hawks. I wish him luck...but I still have that unreasonable sneaking suspicion that he's going to be one of the best backs in the league for the next few years and the fanbase is going to be super frustrated that it happened in Philly rather than Seattle.

[govandals]

I read that "the Seahawks wanted him back and let him know, however he wanted to "change the narrative" of his career" He seems like a good guy, I hope he does well. He really changed (got tougher) when Adrian Peterson came in for that short stint. I think that really helped him.

I read on another forum that Penny was gonna sign with the Seahawks but sprained his thumb trying to sign the contract, so he just signed with the Eagles instead. OK, my lame attempt at humor is over...

[Hawktawk]

I read that "the Seahawks wanted him back and let him know, however he wanted to "change the narrative" of his career" He seems like a good guy, I hope he does well. He really changed (got tougher) when Adrian Peterson came in for that short stint. I think that really helped him.

I read on another forum that Penny was gonna sign with the Seahawks but sprained his thumb trying to sign the contract, so he just signed with the Eagles instead. OK, my lame attempt at humor is over...

As enigmatic a Seahawk as I can remember. Panned by experts as a reach , unlucky to come into camp with Chris Carson who caught Pete’s favor . Showed flashes in limited touches. In late 2019 he had a game with 138 yards on 11 carries. 2 weeks later his knee was targeted running down the sideline with a swing pass . Only touch of the game . When he got his first start by default he was held to 3.5 ypc but hit a critical run . Those 11 games following proved once and for all he’s a pro bowl level talent. Remarkably fast for his size and gets north south immediately making him even more devastating .

It’s Just extremely unlucky. I knew he was done when I saw that play vs the saints Just looked bad .
I heard Seattle offered more than Philly . I’m sure Penny wants a fresh start but I also know he’s a starter with a starter mentality and skills and he didn’t want to be sitting watching someone else like he did with Carson .
This I know . If the man could ever make it 17 games he might lead the league in rushing .

[RiverDog]

It’s Just extremely unlucky. I knew he was done when I saw that play vs the saints Just looked bad .
I heard Seattle offered more than Philly . I’m sure Penny wants a fresh start but I also know he’s a starter with a starter mentality and skills and he didn’t want to be sitting watching someone else like he did with Carson .

IMO it's a little more than being "extremely unlucky." In addition to the time he missed due to major injuries, Penny was held out of practices and games by things like muscle pulls, and those injuries can be as a direct result of a lack of conditioning, a possibility that's supported by the fact that there were times that he reported to camp overweight.

Penny isn't going to start in Philly. If they had plans for him starting, they would have offered him a much more lucrative deal. He'll be just what he was with us when Carson was the starter, a change of pace running back and an insurance policy in case the starter goes down.

This I know . If the man could ever make it 17 games he might lead the league in rushing .

If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle!

[NorthHawk]

His career in Seattle is a lot like Prosise. Showed a lot of promise when healthy but couldn’t stay on the field.

[Aseahawkfan]

Penny needed a change. The guy has talent and maybe Philly can help him stay on the field long enough to make it happen. They don't need a workhorse back, so Penny will have less pressure.

Good luck to him.

[trents]

Homer is gone too? That one slipped by my attention as well.

[RiverDog]

Homer is gone too? That one slipped by my attention as well.

Yep. Signed by the Bears for about twice what Penny got to from the Eagles.

[NorthHawk]

It looks like RB will be one of the priorities in this draft.
So far the holes are (in no particular order) NT, OC, OG, RB, QB, ILB, WR3, and with contracts ending after this year maybe TE and perhaps another CB opposite Woolen, but that might be a DB for nickel and dime pkgs.
I don't expect to be able to fill all of these holes this year, but if we can continue like last year we could be in a good position in a couple of years and that's when our window should begin to open.

[trents]

So what RB's do we have on the roster at this point in time besides KWIII and DJ Dallas?

[NorthHawk]

So what RB's do we have on the roster at this point in time besides KWIII and DJ Dallas?

Darwin Thompson out of Utah St. He's a 3rd year player who played with KC according to Seahawks.com. However it's not updated very well because they still have Poona Ford listed (unless we've re-signed him) and they do have Dre'Mont Jones.

ESPN has Godwin Igwebuike listed as well but he may not have been re-signed. I really liked what he brought to the return game but didn't see much of him at RB.

[RiverDog]

His career in Seattle is a lot like Prosise. Showed a lot of promise when healthy but couldn’t stay on the field.

Although Penny had a higher upside, Prosise is a good comparison.

[Hawktawk]

His career in Seattle is a lot like Prosise. Showed a lot of promise when healthy but couldn’t stay on the field.

“Although Penny had a higher upside, Prosise is a good comparison.[/quote]

From a standpoint of physique and talent lots of comparison . 230 lb men who can outrun almost anyone .
From a standpoint of actual accomplishment Penny dwarfs his productivity as many problems as he had .

As I recall from memory Prosise heyday was leading the team in rushing and recieving in a huge win in Foxborough. The next game he housed it from 74 yards , a Lumen record and then got hurt on the goal line .
Penny had a couple amazing games before hurt . His career ypc is 5.7 . Then In his last 11 games he had 1100 yards rushing , 8 rush TDs . NFL records for games over 135 with 2 TDs , also consecutive games over 175 yards . His last 5 of 21 he averaged 7.1 ypc. To focus on injuries years earlier missed the point the guy played 11 all
Pro style games then got a leg snapped . No pulled whatever . Not conditioning . Had played through a shoulder the previous 2 games and lit it up .
I see penny as a Seahawks tragedy, potentially the greatest back in team history . Just unlucky . I’ll pull for him unlike I told you so fans .

[RiverDog]

Penny had a couple amazing games before hurt . His career ypc is 5.7 . Then In his last 11 games he had 1100 yards rushing , 8 rush TDs . NFL records for games over 135 with 2 TDs , also consecutive games over 175 yards . His last 5 of 21 he averaged 7.1 ypc. To focus on injuries years earlier missed the point the guy played 11 all
Pro style games then got a leg snapped . No pulled whatever . Not conditioning . Had played through a shoulder the previous 2 games and lit it up .
I see penny as a Seahawks tragedy, potentially the greatest back in team history . Just unlucky . I’ll pull for him unlike I told you so fans .

Woulda coulda shoulda. That type of speculation cuts both ways. What would have happened to Tom Brady had Drew Bledsoe not gotten hurt? Would he have even been given a shot at a starting job? Had Chris Carson not been injured, would Penny have gotten an opportunity, or would he have remained playing second fiddle behind the back that beat him out? Why wouldn't Carson have potentially been the best running back in Seahawk history?

[Hawktawk]

Wanna talk Carson ? Good back . I liked him . But too physical and always hurt himself . Correct me if I’m wrong but I think Carson was available for one postseason , his rookie year vs Dallas in the WC where he went off for 20 yards on 15 carries while Penny had 27 yards on 4. It’s a good question why Carson stayed in that game .

Every other year he was out by season end except his last one he played 3 games . It wasn’t just Penny . It was terrible luck at the position . Starting with beast mode getting a hernia . Rawls career altering injury . Carson’s many injuries . Penny good lord .

Penny has about another gear and a half on Carson . The talent gap is glaring . We’re never had a back averaging well over 6 ypc and for his career including when he was this fat out of shape lazy slob he averaged 6.1 ypc on 10 or more carries. Beast , SA, nobody showed the burst this guy did . So yeah I’m standing by my observation Penny could have been our best ever .

[RiverDog]

Wanna talk Carson ? Good back . I liked him . But too physical and always hurt himself . Correct me if I’m wrong but I think Carson was available for one postseason , his rookie year vs Dallas in the WC where he went off for 20 yards on 15 carries while Penny had 27 yards on 4. It’s a good question why Carson stayed in that game .

Every other year he was out by season end except his last one he played 3 games . It wasn’t just Penny . It was terrible luck at the position . Starting with beast mode getting a hernia . Rawls career altering injury . Carson’s many injuries . Penny good lord .

Penny has about another gear and a half on Carson . The talent gap is glaring . We’re never had a back averaging well over 6 ypc and for his career including when he was this fat out of shape lazy slob he averaged 6.1 ypc on 10 or more carries. Beast , SA, nobody showed the burst this guy did . So yeah I’m standing by my observation Penny could have been our best ever .

So you're rapping Carson because he couldn't stay healthy yet trumpeting Penny because he could have been the best Seahawk RB in franchise history if not for his injuries?

When the two were healthy, Penny never could beat out Carson for the starting job. Sure, Penny had everything you said he had, a gear and a half, etc. But playing running back involves more than just carrying the ball on 1st and 2nd down. Penny was a very poor blocker and not nearly as good of a receiver out of the backfield and not anywhere close to the short yardage runner that Carson was. Penny was not a 3 down back and would come out in passing situations. Between that limited usage and his inability to stay healthy, it explains why Penny was offered virtually peanuts for a contract with the Eagles. He's one dimensional.

The fate of those two running backs, Carson and Penny, is a perfect illustration of one of the reasons why I don't like spending high draft picks on running backs. They're too prone to injury.

[NorthHawk]

Ideally you should keep 2 top RBs on the roster if you are a running team or if running the ball is a big part of your Offense. It’s why you should select one early every time one of them gets older to keep the backfield stocked. Later round selections aren’t usually the better RBs with a few exceptions. So every 3 or 4 years draft one in the first or second round and keep churning them over. After all 17 games is a lot of wear and tear on one RB. Just look how our run game receded after Marshawn left. Bottom feeding didn’t work, neither did bypassing studs for later options.

Bottom line is if your Offense depends on the run game to play a big role, then keep it stocked with top talent.

[RiverDog]

Ideally you should keep 2 top RBs on the roster if you are a running team or if running the ball is a big part of your Offense. It’s why you should select one early every time one of them gets older to keep the backfield stocked. Later round selections aren’t usually the better RBs with a few exceptions. So every 3 or 4 years draft one in the first or second round and keep churning them over. After all 17 games is a lot of wear and tear on one RB. Just look how our run game receded after Marshawn left. Bottom feeding didn’t work, neither did bypassing studs for later options.

Bottom line is if your Offense depends on the run game to play a big role, then keep it stocked with top talent.

Yeah, well the Browns have kept two top tier running backs on their roster for years and look where that's gotten them.

The top 5 rushing teams last season were the Bears, Ravens, Falcons, Giants, and Eagles. none of which had two top running backs. The leading running back for the Ravens had less than 600 yards rushing. The Giants had Barkley who had a great season, but their next leading RB had less than 300 yards rushing. The Bears didn't sport a 1K running back. And the 5th leading team, the NFC Champ Eagles, had one-1K running back, Miles Sanders, but their next running back gained a measly 240 yards.

It's not necessary to have two top flight running backs on your squad even if you are a run heavy team. The one thing that all those top rushing teams have in common is that they have a running quarterback that is either 1st or 2nd on their team in rushing. If we draft one of the top 4 QB's, we're likely to be in that mix as well. Give me someone like Dallas or Homer to back up Walker.

[NorthHawk]

It doesn’t matter what other teams have done. If a good run game is central to the success of the Offense a top RB is required.
Look how much Walker meant to our Offense and in previous years Carson when healthy or for a brief time Penny.
Our success on Offense relies on a good run game and mediocre RBs don’t cut it. Just like a passing team not trying to get top WRs, it’s the same with RBs. Maybe they’ve learned from this past years draft and will take another early to ensure there’s little drop off if or when the starter gets dinged.

[RiverDog]

It doesn’t matter what other teams have done. If a good run game is central to the success of the Offense a top RB is required.
Look how much Walker meant to our Offense and in previous years Carson when healthy or for a brief time Penny.
Our success on Offense relies on a good run game and mediocre RBs don’t cut it. Just like a passing team not trying to get top WRs, it’s the same with RBs. Maybe they’ve learned from this past years draft and will take another early to ensure there’s little drop off if or when the starter gets dinged.

Except you that's not what you said. You said that we needed two top flight running backs on our roster, not one. And IMO it does matter what other teams have done. Of the top 5 running teams in the league, not a single one of them have two running backs that each put up more than 300 yards last season. It means that having two on your roster isn't necessary and is a waste of valuable resources. Besides, IMO we already have a very good RB on our roster in the form of DJ Dallas.

Having said that, I don't mind spending a draft pick on a running back so long as it's no higher than a 3rd rounder and that he's versatile enough to contribute on special teams. Guys like Dallas and Homer don't get enough credit for their special teams contributions.

[Hawktawk]

The truths in the middle. Interesting we had Walker at 1 K and Penny at 350 (in 5 games) What might have been....

Dee Jay is a nice kid. Hes not a "very good back" He was completely ineffective in the second half of the wild card when Walker dissapeared . I cant remember many big plays hes made at all since being here. Good special teamer.

NO comparison between our backs and a competent fill in capable of a 100 yard game. Homer will be missed on ST badly. As a running back he was bad this year when he was our only option, also fumbling on the 50 to blow open the 9ers game. We had 4 or 5 games with little or nothing from Walker and I think we lost almost all of them. We need a better #2. our style demands we run effectively. If hes second round oh well.

[NorthHawk]

Except you that's not what you said. You said that we needed two top flight running backs on our roster, not one. And IMO it does matter what other teams have done. Of the top 5 running teams in the league, not a single one of them have two running backs that each put up more than 300 yards last season. It means that having two on your roster isn't necessary and is a waste of valuable resources. Besides, IMO we already have a very good RB on our roster in the form of DJ Dallas.

If we really want our Offense to be consistent we need to top RBs in the fold. Deejay is a good backup, but there's a big fall off from Walker to him. That has to be fixed as RBs take a lot of punishment and our Offense needs to have a top RB to be ready or share the load in a 17 game season. Walker missed a game last year and our Offense was noticeably poorer. There's nothing wrong with Dallas, but he's just not a top RB. So selecting one to share the carries should be a priority. Luckily, this year is fairly deep in RBs so we should be able to get one in the 2nd, but it would be difficult to pass by Robinson at 20 if he's still there because of his immense talent.

People have this notion that you can find a RB anywhere in the draft, but as far as dominating RBs, it's rarely true, and the ones who do fall usually do so because of character concerns or injury history. Some are just missed but that's like any position and it's very rare like John Randle, undrafted but HoF inductee in 2010 or be very good contributors like Doug Baldwin. However, the point is the best RBs are drafted early - mostly the first 2 rounds. And we should try to get another one this year.

[RiverDog]

If we really want our Offense to be consistent we need to top RBs in the fold. Deejay is a good backup, but there's a big fall off from Walker to him. That has to be fixed as RBs take a lot of punishment and our Offense needs to have a top RB to be ready or share the load in a 17 game season. Walker missed a game last year and our Offense was noticeably poorer. There's nothing wrong with Dallas, but he's just not a top RB. So selecting one to share the carries should be a priority. Luckily, this year is fairly deep in RBs so we should be able to get one in the 2nd, but it would be difficult to pass by Robinson at 20 if he's still there because of his immense talent.

People have this notion that you can find a RB anywhere in the draft, but as far as dominating RBs, it's rarely true, and the ones who do fall usually do so because of character concerns or injury history. Some are just missed but that's like any position and it's very rare like John Randle, undrafted but HoF inductee in 2010 or be very good contributors like Doug Baldwin. However, the point is the best RBs are drafted early - mostly the first 2 rounds. And we should try to get another one this year.

You keep saying that, but there's no evidence to suggest that a team needs two top tier running backs in order to sustain a top 5 running offense. In today's NFL, what's needed is a top tier RB and a good running quarterback. A solid, reliable backup/change of pace, like a DJ Dallas, is all that's needed to sustain a top running attack.

Besides, great running attacks aren't all that successful. Last season, the team that led the league in rushing was the Bears, and they finished with one of the worst records in the league at 3-14. At the other end of the spectrum, the Bengals finished with the 29th ranked rushing offense and damn near won the Lombardi. The Browns are one of the few teams to feature two top tier running backs and look what that's gotten them.

And I didn't say that you could find a RB anywhere in the draft. I said 3rd round and lower. I just don't want to spend money on a car that's going to break down.

[NorthHawk]

And our success and failure (which is all that really matters in this discussion) clearly shows that without a very good RB we do poorly. After Lynch left we went your route and never got the balance required to be consistent on Offense. It was all centered around Wilson having to pull it off and to his credit he did it more often than not. How many times did we end the year by picking up ageing RBs or guys off the street because we couldn't get a run game going with the injuries? It was because we didn't have a viable alternative to the #1 RB of the day. That RB got beat up during the year and now we have an extra game to consider. So I say hell yah, take a top RB when you can and spread the load.

[RiverDog]

And our success and failure (which is all that really matters in this discussion) clearly shows that without a very good RB we do poorly. After Lynch left we went your route and never got the balance required to be consistent on Offense. It was all centered around Wilson having to pull it off and to his credit he did it more often than not. How many times did we end the year by picking up ageing RBs or guys off the street because we couldn't get a run game going with the injuries? It was because we didn't have a viable alternative to the #1 RB of the day. That RB got beat up during the year and now we have an extra game to consider. So I say hell yah, take a top RB when you can and spread the load.

So who did we have as a top tier back to supplement Lynch during our most successful seasons? Christine Michael? Robert Turbin? Michael Robinson?

Sorry, my friend, I agree with you more than any other poster in here, but on this subject, IMO you don't have a leg to stand on. There is simply no evidence, either on our team or in general around the league, that it's a necessary prerequisite to have two top tier running backs in order to have a successful running game. We have more pressing needs besides buying an expensive insurance policy for our featured back.

Besides, I really like DJ Dallas and feel that he could start for a lot of teams.

[NorthHawk]

We didn’t need another top RB when we had Lynch, but when he did get hurt our Offense fell off a cliff. It shows how much we would have benefited from another top RB on board and maybe Lynch might not have been injured. Our Offense also was hit hard that game Walker missed last year with Dallas and Homer filling in, so we’ve seen the impact of losing our top RB.

[RiverDog]

We didn’t need another top RB when we had Lynch, but when he did get hurt our Offense fell off a cliff. It shows how much we would have benefited from another top RB on board and maybe Lynch might not have been injured. Our Offense also was hit hard that game Walker missed last year with Dallas and Homer filling in, so we’ve seen the impact of losing our top RB.

So, in other words, it's not that we need a 2nd top tier RB to supplement our offense, you're talking about am insurance policy in case the starter gets hurt. Sorry, I don't go along with that line of thinking. Running back isn't a high value position, and you're wanting to stack it 2 or 3 deep at the expense of other positions like center or DE.

[NorthHawk]

Partly, but mostly to share the load to try to keep them healthy. As well when contract time comes along we have leverage or can trade or let him go and draft another where we might get a comp pick. Drafting Gibbs or Charbonnet would allow Waldron to add in another dimension to the Offense in the pass game. When was the last time we had a RB who was a receiving threat out of the backfield? It might be back in the Holmgren era with Ricky Watters if I remember correctly.

[RiverDog]

Partly, but mostly to share the load to try to keep them healthy. As well when contract time comes along we have leverage or can trade or let him go and draft another where we might get a comp pick. Drafting Gibbs or Charbonnet would allow Waldron to add in another dimension to the Offense in the pass game. When was the last time we had a RB who was a receiving threat out of the backfield? It might be back in the Holmgren era with Ricky Watters if I remember correctly.

Yeah, the receiver out of the backfield is pretty much a west coast offense thing. Pete Ball doesn't seem to utilize it very often. I remember our discussions about never throwing true screen passes to running backs.

I'm not sure if sharing the load is going to reduce the risk of injury to the starter or not. I understand the probability argument, but it certainly didn't help Penny or Carson to avoid injuries. It just seems to me to be a misallocation of resources to be investing such high draft capital in a position that is lower in value and higher in injury probability than offensive tackles, cornerbacks, etc.

Like I said, I'm good with drafting a running back, just not one in the first or second rounds. We can get more bang for the buck by using the picks somewhere else.

[Hawktawk]

We didn’t need another top RB when we had Lynch, but when he did get hurt our Offense fell off a cliff. It shows how much we would have benefited from another top RB on board and maybe Lynch might not have been injured. Our Offense also was hit hard that game Walker missed last year with Dallas and Homer filling in, so we’ve seen the impact of losing our top RB.

Great point about beast . We didn’t need anyone else because he was lucky not to get badly hurt and he played with pain . I recall him sitting out vs the browns with back spasms in 2010 and not missing a game over the next 3.5 years . When he got hurt our backups did well enough to get to the postseason . Rawls is another guy forgotten who rushed for more yards in a game in one of his first starts then beast did in his entire career . A devastating ankle injury rolled up on fighting for an inch with 4 guys . Like Carson . Rawls never was the same . Prosise . Penny wound up with 11 starts to end his career here and set 2 all time nfl rushing records , 1100 yards , 8 TDs , 6.3 ypc OVER 11 Games . One of the most exciting backs I ever saw in the rag .

Credit to River as Dee Jay had a 5.3 ypc average last year on 35 carries. I remember a broken play lateral for about 50 of it but his career average is 4.2 so it was a good year . He’s not a starter that can carry it 25 times and get 125 and a couple touches . He’s a fill in . As north points out it wasn’t good when Walker was out . He’s not that durable . Missed the opener . Was completely ineffective vs Tampa , raiders . 1 run vs the Rams then limps off for 3 games . So it depends . If your stud muffin stays healthy you’re fine with Dee Jay getting 3 carries a game . We saw Dee Jay in prime time in the WC after Walker was injured , gassed whatever but he was gone most of the half. Dee Jay looked like B squad after watching Walker . Id be fine with another back of his caliber . It is critical to our style to run dynamically . We can’t rely on Dee Jay and a somewhat brittle Walker .