A Good Discussion on the S2

[RiverDog]

Rather than tacking it onto an endless discussion about the draft, I thought that this subject deserved its own thread. Below is a very good article about the S2 test that gives a good overview of the subject. I've copied and pasted some highlights as the article is too long to post in its entirity, but I encourage you to read the entire piece as it has some good stuff in it. You might want to skip over the stuff about Matt Patricia:

Can’t spell “snake oil salesmen” without 2 S

A few weeks ago Daniel Jeremiah unintentionally revealed that Bryce Young scored the highest of the 2023 QBs on the “S2 Cognitive Test” which purportedly measures athletes cognitive abilities. Since Jeremiah let it slip, the S2 has become a hot topic.

in interviews with several football executives this month, S2 testing has developed a reputation so strong in the industry that it undoubtedly will affect to some degree how quarterbacks are drafted.

That reputation seems to have come from Brock Purdy, who reportedly tested extremely high, playing well for six games. Because if they valued S2 so much last year he wouldn’t have been the 9th QB and final player drafted. Now that overnight reputation may cost CJ Stroud.

Until Bob McGinn leaked the 2023 draft class on Friday, everything that had come out about S2 were controlled leaks by its creators, and nearly everything they talked about were tightly controlled PR success stories. Brock Purdy, the last player drafted, had the best score of last year’s QB class! Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen, who weren’t the top QB in their draft, scored really well!

That’s great, but what about the guys who didn’t do well on the test, are any of them good QBs? What about the guys who did well on the test but aren’t good QBs? We don’t know, and we may never know, because if players who test poorly go on to good careers and players who test well have poor ones then the test is worthless.

In February the Athletic wrote about how Brock Purdy aced the test and repeatedly referenced how well Drew Brees did and how Purdy basically matched him. But that doesn’t tell us anything about the test. The S2 began in 2015, by then Brees had been in the league for 15 years. The article mentions Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers but does not say if they tested, it brings them up out of nowhere and never mentions them again.

The company recently looked at 27 starting quarterbacks. (Some of the older veterans like Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers had entered the league before S2 began testing in 2015 and there are no scores for them; Brees took the test while already playing in the NFL.) Of that group, 13 had a career passer rating above 90. The average S2 score of those players was the 91st percentile. Those with passer ratings below 90 had much lower test results.

“Those 14 guys, the average score was in the low 60s,” Ally said.

Arbitrary endpoints alert! 90 sounds impressive, but it isn’t an elite number anymore. 18 QBs had a rating of 90+ in 2022, 19 in 2021, 23 in 2020, 16 in 2019, 24 in 2018… 90 is mediocre.

We need to be highly skeptical of the S2 meaning anything. Maybe it does, but when everything is in a black box and virtually all the information that comes out has a PR spin to it, feel free to ignore it. It seems like something Matt Patricia would buy.

[NorthHawk]

Like was said in the other thread, it's just another piece of information and teams will put more or less weight on the results depending on their point of view.
Only a fool would take one test and drop a player from their board if all of the other measureables are favorable. But it might mean that they want to look into some aspects a little deeper. In CJ Strouds case, their Offense and fantastic WR weapons means it's a little harder to see things that have been recorded, but the basics are still there to make a valid decision on if he fits what the team expects a QB to do.
It could be that some player scores the best ever on that test but makes stupid decisions with the ball. What do teams that put a lot of stock in this test do?
So it's just another tool to find out who that player is on the field and how well he may do in the NFL. It's not foolproof or definitive, but it's a piece of the puzzle.
What it might do is encourage a team to select a QB later in the draft who scored well in the hopes they hit the jackpot. Purdy would add to this narrative considering his success last year.

[RiverDog]

Like was said in the other thread, it's just another piece of information and teams will put more or less weight on the results depending on their point of view.
Only a fool would take one test and drop a player from their board if all of the other measureables are favorable. But it might mean that they want to look into some aspects a little deeper. In CJ Strouds case, their Offense and fantastic WR weapons means it's a little harder to see things that have been recorded, but the basics are still there to make a valid decision on if he fits what the team expects a QB to do.
It could be that some player scores the best ever on that test but makes stupid decisions with the ball. What do teams that put a lot of stock in this test do?
So it's just another tool to find out who that player is on the field and how well he may do in the NFL. It's not foolproof or definitive, but it's a piece of the puzzle.
What it might do is encourage a team to select a QB later in the draft who scored well in the hopes they hit the jackpot. Purdy would add to this narrative considering his success last year.

The point the article is making is that the company that created the test it isn't being up front about the results. They've leaked information on those that scored well and were successful, ie Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, and Brock Purdy, but how many were there who scored poorly yet succeeded? How many scored well yet failed? For example, what did Lamar Jackson score? Or Justin Herbert? How about Zach Wilson? Mitch Turbisky? Carson Wentz? Trevor Lawrence? We're being treated to too small of a sample for us or anyone else that has incomplete information to draw ANY conclusions about ANY player.

Unless you have a comprehensive listing of all those that took the test along with some type of quantification as to how they performed during their careers, there's not a lot of weight one can attach to the test. And as I mentioned in the other thread, there is no scale by which to measure performance. Is anything below 90 bad? If so, how bad is Richardson's 78? In addition, if all 4 of the top QB's scored well as the company claims they did, what good is it?

The company has a vested interest in the success of this test being used as a predictive method, so any information that we hear from them about it has to be treated with a grain of salt. Additionally, the test is too new for us to attach any degree of significance to it. It's only been in use for 7 years, so short that many of the games current quarterbacks weren't subjected to it.

[NorthHawk]

The test isn't that old, so there won't be as large of a data base as a test like the Wonderlic which has been used for a much longer time.
That said, it might not have been leaked by the company but rather by the players that do well. We know about Brees and Mahomes, Allen and others, so maybe they let that information out.
It may be the same this year with Young and Levis, and it might be a rumor by a team to try to push down the draft stock for Stroud by giving out false info. We don't know, but I think the teams do have that info and we don't.
It's why I'm not expecting teams to put a lot of emphasis on it this year, but maybe 5 or 10 years down the road it could be an indicator of success, large or small.

[RiverDog]

The test isn't that old, so there won't be as large of a data base as a test like the Wonderlic which has been used for a much longer time.
That said, it might not have been leaked by the company but rather by the players that do well. We know about Brees and Mahomes, Allen and others, so maybe they let that information out.
It may be the same this year with Young and Levis, and it might be a rumor by a team to try to push down the draft stock for Stroud by giving out false info. We don't know, but I think the teams do have that info and we don't.
It's why I'm not expecting teams to put a lot of emphasis on it this year, but maybe 5 or 10 years down the road it could be an indicator of success, large or small.

That I agree with. But unless they publicly release ALL of the results, something that's unlikely as the information gleaned can only be released to the public by the individual player, people like you or me will never be privy to it.

[NorthHawk]

We, the general public probably shouldn’t be given that info, but I’m sure the teams will.
Some of it will leak. It always does, but we will never really know the accuracy of the reports.

[RiverDog]

We, the general public probably shouldn’t be given that info, but I’m sure the teams will.
Some of it will leak. It always does, but we will never really know the accuracy of the reports.

I can understand protecting a player's privacy in not releasing a Wonderlic result as a bad score, like Vince Young's, not only is a personal insult, it could be a factor in any non-football job he might desire. But the S2 is more of a physical skills test, not that much different than a 3-cone drill or a 40-yard dash, so I don't see the same need to protect those results from the public.

[jshawaii22]

That’s great, but what about the guys who didn’t do well on the test, are any of them good QBs? What about the guys who did well on the test but aren’t good QBs? We don’t know, and we may never know, because if players who test poorly go on to good careers and players who test well have poor ones then the test is worthless.

That is not a fair correlation at all. "The test is worthless" -- no not at all. It's ONE PART of many tests, talks, meetings, on-field film, etc etc that teams can use to evaluate a player. That's ALL it is. When you look at a whole career, you must factor in being drafted by certain teams vs better teams. How about better coaches? Injuries?

[RiverDog]

That’s great, but what about the guys who didn’t do well on the test, are any of them good QBs? What about the guys who did well on the test but aren’t good QBs? We don’t know, and we may never know, because if players who test poorly go on to good careers and players who test well have poor ones then the test is worthless.

That is not a fair correlation at all. "The test is worthless" -- no not at all. It's ONE PART of many tests, talks, meetings, on-field film, etc etc that teams can use to evaluate a player. That's ALL it is. When you look at a whole career, you must factor in being drafted by certain teams vs better teams. How about better coaches? Injuries?

I didn't say that the test was "worthless." That was a quote from the article I linked, and I don't agree with that characterization. Any information, even incomplete information, has a value to it.

But the point the article is making is spot on. The test is way overrated, at least amongst us fans and the media, with the distinct possibility that the results are being manipulated by the company that designed the test in an effort to enhance its reputation and improve their fortunes. There's no way that a rumored bad test result by a player like Stroud justifies dropping him as far as we've witnessed recently in the mocks and player rankings.

[NorthHawk]

There are some other rumors about Stroud that are probably pushing him down the boards.
Probably unfair, but there's one out there that he isn't very coachable and there's always the concern that he's had so much help at Ohio St. that his learning curve will be huge when making the transition to the NFL. The learning curve is the same with Hooker and his Offense in Tenn. Adding in a suspect report of a bad test would just add to the negativity.

[RiverDog]

There are some other rumors about Stroud that are probably pushing him down the boards.

Probably unfair, but there's one out there that he isn't very coachable and there's always the concern that he's had so much help at Ohio St. that his learning curve will be huge when making the transition to the NFL. The learning curve is the same with Hooker and his Offense in Tenn. Adding in a suspect report of a bad test would just add to the negativity.

I agree, but the rumors have been there for a while. What's new is the leaked S2 result.

Stroud's supposed 18% on the S2 reminds me of Vince Young's 6 on the Wonderlic, one of the worst scores since they began using the test. Young was allowed to re-take the test and although he was still well below average for a QB, he scored much higher.

[NorthHawk]

What happens is a piece of information arrives and it refocuses the spotlight on a player. This attention then draws the negatives to the forefront and his rankings slide.
It doesn't mean much in reality, but it does for perception.

[jshawaii22]

Bottom Line: Here's the way teams should be looking at Stroud's ability to play the game:

Against Georgia, the #1 team in the nation and a team with many draftable players on defense, Stroud finished with 348 yards and four touchdowns on 23 of 34 passing while adding another 34 yards on the ground.Jan 2, 2023. That was one of the best football games I watched last year. S2? Not much to say on that. I now have him going to us at #5 in CBob's mock behind only the 2 edge we need more.

[NorthHawk]

He also had some bad games against easy opponents last year, too so when scouting, people look at the entire season.
There is some discussion out there about the Ohio St. Offense restricting the development of QBs because they don't get to play outside of what the coaches on the sidelines call. You can see him (and Justin Fields before) looking to the sidelines to know where to throw the ball. The Georgia game showed he has some ability to create when things break down which is a positive, but he wasn't tested like that much in his college career.
It's why a year in our system would work wonders for his game as he learns to play QB properly. That full year of practice and learning would do wonders in his development and he could really shine when he gets the chance.
I'd be happy selecting him at #5. It could set us up for the next decade or more at QB.

[mykc14]

Bottom Line: Here's the way teams should be looking at Stroud's ability to play the game:

Against Georgia, the #1 team in the nation and a team with many draftable players on defense, Stroud finished with 348 yards and four touchdowns on 23 of 34 passing while adding another 34 yards on the ground.Jan 2, 2023. That was one of the best football games I watched last year. S2? Not much to say on that. I now have him going to us at #5 in CBob's mock behind only the 2 edge we need more.

I don't think you should ever draft a player just because of one game. With that being said that one game was very impressive for Stroud. He looked great. The question is do the Hawks think that is who he can be every game in the pros or is he a guy who isn't super mobile and needs to be surrounded by the best athletes in a simple system and get reads from the sidelines to be successful? That one game really intrigues me but I worry if that can translate to the pros for him on a consistent basis- especially if any of the other stuff coming out about him is true. At the same time none of these prospects are perfect and there have been clear concerns about almost every quarterback coming out of college so as long as he's really willing to work on his weaknesses he clearly has the arm talent to play at the next level.

[NorthHawk]

Every QB has flaws coming out of College.
Peyton Manning threw a record number of interceptions his first year, but he turned out OK.
That debut would have been much better had he been able to sit for a season and get into the rhythm of the NFL and understand better what opposing defenses were doing.
Mahomes on the other hand after a year on the sidelines was very good.
And look at Trevor Lawrence. His first year coupled with the HC turmoil turned it into a lost first year. He really came on last year with good coaching and solid game planning.

We're in the perfect position to take one of these 4 QBs and have them develop into excellent players capable of taking a team to a championship.

[RiverDog]

Bottom Line: Here's the way teams should be looking at Stroud's ability to play the game:

Against Georgia, the #1 team in the nation and a team with many draftable players on defense, Stroud finished with 348 yards and four touchdowns on 23 of 34 passing while adding another 34 yards on the ground.Jan 2, 2023. That was one of the best football games I watched last year. S2? Not much to say on that. I now have him going to us at #5 in CBob's mock behind only the 2 edge we need more.

I don't think you should ever draft a player just because of one game. With that being said that one game was very impressive for Stroud. He looked great. The question is do the Hawks think that is who he can be every game in the pros or is he a guy who isn't super mobile and needs to be surrounded by the best athletes in a simple system and get reads from the sidelines to be successful? That one game really intrigues me but I worry if that can translate to the pros for him on a consistent basis- especially if any of the other stuff coming out about him is true. At the same time none of these prospects are perfect and there have been clear concerns about almost every quarterback coming out of college so as long as he's really willing to work on his weaknesses he clearly has the arm talent to play at the next level.

It wasn't just one game. In 2022, Stroud threw for 41 TD's and just 7 interceptions and completed 66.3% of his passes, and the season before that, he threw 44 TD passes with 6 INT's and a 71.9% completion percentage. Granted, he played for a dominant team and likely was the beneficiary of good protection and outstanding athletes, a disparity in talent that he won't enjoy in the NFL, but those numbers, based on aprox. 25-28 games are very hard to rationalize by simply playing for a great team.

[mykc14]

It wasn't just one game.

It was just one game. It was the only game where he had to be the man. It was the only game that he had to play off-script. Let's be honest, overall he had the easiest situation as a QB in the nation. He had the best offensive line and had a ton of time to throw. He had the best athletes surrounding him- by a long shot- I mean he was throwing to a top 3 receiver in the draft this year and the number one ranked receiver in next years draft (if he comes out). He played in an offense that allowed him to only have to read half of the field and I would imagine that at least 80% of the time his first read was all he had to look at. How hard was it to play QB at Ohio State last year. Imagine being able to get a snap, know that pressure isn't going to be in your face as you read 1 receiver who has an 80% chance of getting open. He did not have a hard job in terms of being a QB. This is why QB's from talent rich schools running college offenses scare me. With that being said he played out of his mind in that Georgia game. He didn't have way more talent than Georgia. He was harrased and had to move around in the pocket, roll out, and scramble. He made plays. He didn't sit back and throw- he made plays. He had to go to his 3rd read. He had to throw the ball away. He did everything you want to see your QB do on the biggest stage. He was the man. It was one game, but he showed that he has the potential to do things that he was never asked to do in college. The other games, the stats, they don't much matter to me. I'm saying this as somebody who actually likes Stroud. That game helped change my about him and put him and made me think he could be special in the NFL. The other stuff coming out about him now has begun to worry me a bit. IF he has a lower S2 score, IF he isn't really coachable, IF he doesn't follow through with his obligations then maybe that one game was an aberration. With that all being said I do like him- he has a fantastic arm. He isn't a super athlete but showed enough mobility to be able to play at the next level.

[RiverDog]

It wasn't just one game.

It was just one game. It was the only game where he had to be the man. It was the only game that he had to play off-script. Let's be honest, overall he had the easiest situation as a QB in the nation. He had the best offensive line and had a ton of time to throw. He had the best athletes surrounding him- by a long shot- I mean he was throwing to a top 3 receiver in the draft this year and the number one ranked receiver in next years draft (if he comes out). He played in an offense that allowed him to only have to read half of the field and I would imagine that at least 80% of the time his first read was all he had to look at. How hard was it to play QB at Ohio State last year. Imagine being able to get a snap, know that pressure isn't going to be in your face as you read 1 receiver who has an 80% chance of getting open. He did not have a hard job in terms of being a QB. This is why QB's from talent rich schools running college offenses scare me. With that being said he played out of his mind in that Georgia game. He didn't have way more talent than Georgia. He was harrased and had to move around in the pocket, roll out, and scramble. He made plays. He didn't sit back and throw- he made plays. He had to go to his 3rd read. He had to throw the ball away. He did everything you want to see your QB do on the biggest stage. He was the man. It was one game, but he showed that he has the potential to do things that he was never asked to do in college. The other games, the stats, they don't much matter to me. I'm saying this as somebody who actually likes Stroud. That game helped change my about him and put him and made me think he could be special in the NFL. The other stuff coming out about him now has begun to worry me a bit. IF he has a lower S2 score, IF he isn't really coachable, IF he doesn't follow through with his obligations then maybe that one game was an aberration. With that all being said I do like him- he has a fantastic arm. He isn't a super athlete but showed enough mobility to be able to play at the next level.

I'll admit that I didn't watch very much of Stroud prior to the CFB semi-final game vs. Georgia, but there's no way you can put up those kinds of consistent numbers over the course of two years with smoke and mirrors as you're suggesting.

There's 'other stuff' is coming out about a lot of players, especially the high profile QB's, prior to the draft. Here's one about Will Levis:

“A legitimate concern NFL teams have with Kentucky QB Will Levis is his ‘deathly fear’ of milk. I’ve been told he screams in terror at even the sight of milk, let alone the taste. ‘It impedes his daily tasks,’ a source said.

And here's another one:

NFL draft expert Chad Forbes cited sources who have questioned Levis' leadership ability, noting he's "bombing" interviews with teams. One source described Levis as "arrogant" in interview settings.

And then there's Richardson's pro day, when he went through his workout half hearted and not taking it serious:

“There’s no question it (Richardson's lack of seriousness) bothered some of them. It has to. This is the NFL. The NFL is not just, ‘Hey, we go half speed.’ The NFL is grown man, trying to take your livelihood and take your health away from you and blow you up. There’s got to be a sense of detail and sense of urgency,” he said.

My point is that there's so much scrutiny over these quarterbacks that it's almost impossible not to have 'some other stuff' come out about them.

[jshawaii22]

mykc14,
By your own measurement of "being held back by the OSU system"... well, to me that means he has a lot of upside and at least one year to learn how to be a NFL level QB. It also means that he takes direction from his coaches and doesn't go off-script to his own detriment.
I will give you that except for the Michigan and Georgia games he played "high school" level defenses relevant to his offense's talent level, but I watched film on Levis, Richardson and the midget, and I think Stroud has more potential and is already a better looking QB. Maybe he steps in the way Russell did a decade ago. Who knows. He could also be a bust.

i don't know if we would draft him at #5, I still think we could trade down to Tennessee, I read Peter Kings MMQB and it seems teams are moving on from him as he's now outside of the top 7 (I don't see it) but you never know. I week ago Levis was dropping like a rock, some mocks had us taking him at 20, and now he's supposed to be going #1, and his betting line is dropping as HUGE $$$ are being bet on him in Vegas and online. Down from 4000 to 400 in 24 hours. That's wild! It's the NFL Draft.

[RiverDog]

mykc14,
By your own measurement of "being held back by the OSU system"... well, to me that means he has a lot of upside and at least one year to learn how to be a NFL level QB. It also means that he takes direction from his coaches and doesn't go off-script to his own detriment.
I will give you that except for the Michigan and Georgia games he played "high school" level defenses relevant to his offense's talent level, but I watched film on Levis, Richardson and the midget, and I think Stroud has more potential and is already a better looking QB. Maybe he steps in the way Russell did a decade ago. Who knows. He could also be a bust.

i don't know if we would draft him at #5, I still think we could trade down to Tennessee, I read Peter Kings MMQB and it seems teams are moving on from him as he's now outside of the top 7 (I don't see it) but you never know. I week ago Levis was dropping like a rock, some mocks had us taking him at 20, and now he's supposed to be going #1, and his betting line is dropping as HUGE $$$ are being bet on him in Vegas and online. Down from 4000 to 400 in 24 hours. That's wild! It's the NFL Draft.

Boy, it's been a wild ride over these past few weeks, hasn't it? It's been as interesting as I can ever remember it being, I suppose enhanced because we have a top 5 pick and two first rounders. I can't wait till Thursday.

[jshawaii22]

tic-toc... tic-toc. Wouldn't you like to be a fly on the wall of Schneider's office this week?

[mykc14]

I'll admit that I didn't watch very much of Stroud prior to the CFB semi-final game vs. Georgia, but there's no way you can put up those kinds of consistent numbers over the course of two years with smoke and mirrors as you're suggesting.


My point is that there's so much scrutiny over these quarterbacks that it's almost impossible not to have 'some other stuff' come out about them.

Many QB's have put great numbers in college with less talent around them and not been able to produce at the pro level. You absolutely can put up those numbers with the advantages that he has had over every other quarterback in the nation. Again, I actually like him and don't mind him at 5, but I am more concerned about him now then I was a month ago. This is because the "other stuff" coming out about him deals directly with my concern about how he was so successful in college- surrounded by talent, system, easy reads, and time to throw. If he doesn't process well and isn't coachable then those are two huge concerns because he won't enjoy the same advantages that he had over everybody else when he's in the pros. Obviously we don't know how much of the "other stuff" is true which is why I capitalized IF. Just because it might not be true doesn't mean I'm going to dismiss it. Will Levis, Anthony Richardson, and to a lesser degree Bryce Young all have concerns as well but those have been known for a long time- their concerns haven't changed where as this is new information about Stroud and IF true would be very concerning.

[mykc14]

mykc14,
By your own measurement of "being held back by the OSU system"... well, to me that means he has a lot of upside and at least one year to learn how to be a NFL level QB. It also means that he takes direction from his coaches and doesn't go off-script to his own detriment.
I will give you that except for the Michigan and Georgia games he played "high school" level defenses relevant to his offense's talent level, but I watched film on Levis, Richardson and the midget, and I think Stroud has more potential and is already a better looking QB. Maybe he steps in the way Russell did a decade ago. Who knows. He could also be a bust.

It doesn't work that way. You don't go from the advantages that Stroud has and become more successful with less, unless you also have a great ability to process and are extremely coachable. He is going to go from the best possible QB situation where he had numerous and obvious advantages to a QB situation where he has no advantages or relatively few advantages. A guy like Will Levis is going from a situation in which he had almost no advantages to a situation where he is going to be at least level or close to competition and offensive skill level-wise. With that being said Stroud doesn't need to be better statistically or even as good as he was in college to be a huge success in the NFL. Levis, on the other hand, needs to be much better. Again, without the concerns surrounding Stroud I jump at the opportunity to draft him at 5. I run up there and don't waste a second. With these concerns I take my time, look around, and then walk up to the podium to draft him.

[RiverDog]

Many QB's have put great numbers in college with less talent around them and not been able to produce at the pro level. You absolutely can put up those numbers with the advantages that he has had over every other quarterback in the nation. Again, I actually like him and don't mind him at 5, but I am more concerned about him now then I was a month ago. This is because the "other stuff" coming out about him deals directly with my concern about how he was so successful in college- surrounded by talent, system, easy reads, and time to throw. If he doesn't process well and isn't coachable then those are two huge concerns because he won't enjoy the same advantages that he had over everybody else when he's in the pros. Obviously we don't know how much of the "other stuff" is true which is why I capitalized IF. Just because it might not be true doesn't mean I'm going to dismiss it. Will Levis, Anthony Richardson, and to a lesser degree Bryce Young all have concerns as well but those have been known for a long time- their concerns haven't changed where as this is new information about Stroud and IF true would be very concerning.

I never said that there weren't players that put up great numbers in college then couldn't do it in the NFL. The league is littered with them, and not necessarily just those that happened to be surrounded by great talent. Paxton Lynch (Memphis) and Colt Brennen (Hawaii) come to mind. My point was that IMO Stroud's college numbers are legitimate and not propped up by playing with superior talent. Does that mean that he can replicate them at the next level? Maybe, maybe not. But seeing him play at a high level against the two-time defending National Champs...and not just his stats, but the way he threw the ball by hitting his back foot in rhythm and throwing a dart just over the head of a defender...in my mind, validated his career numbers.

All of the QB's have their warts, including Stroud. But I like him the best.

[mykc14]

IMO Stroud's college numbers are legitimate and not propped up by playing with superior talent. Does that mean that he can replicate them at the next level? Maybe, maybe not. But seeing him play at a high level against the two-time defending National Champs...and not just his stats, but the way he threw the ball by hitting his back foot in rhythm and throwing a dart just over the head of a defender...in my mind, validated his career numbers.

.

What do you base your contention that his numbers were not propped up by playing with superior talent and in a great college system- one game. I was extremely impressed with him after watching that game as well, but it was just one game. All of that stuff that you saw from him during that game are basic things that you would have seen from him all year but what you didn't see in most games from him that you saw in that game was his ability to play off script- that is what impressed me and showed me that he can be successful in the NFL. Again, I basically agree with you that he is intriguing all I am saying is that the concerns over him have more of an impact right now than the concerns over the other players, because they are just coming out and affect the area of his game that I am the most concerned about- inflated numbers because he was surrounded by talent in a very QB friendly system.

[Hawktawk]

How many college QBs actually play a pro style offense ? I know how many play against 11 pros . None .
It’s I bet many many college programs have plays called in and QBs primarily reading one side of the field .

And these tests . I don’t know . How many super high scores fail ? How many lower scores succeed ? I’m sure both happen . Joey Harrington was As a bipolar man I can attest you can test poorly but be a very intelligent high functioning person . I have had Stroud #1 since the bowls , strictly because Young is too damn small . I trust Levis and Richardson very little .

[mykc14]

How many college QBs actually play a pro style offense ? I know how many play against 11 pros . None .
It’s I bet many many college programs have plays called in and QBs primarily reading one side of the field .

And these tests . I don’t know . How many super high scores fail ? How many lower scores succeed ? I’m sure both happen . Joey Harrington was As a bipolar man I can attest you can test poorly but be a very intelligent high functioning person . I have had Stroud #1 since the bowls , strictly because Young is too damn small . I trust Levis and Richardson very little .

There are a decent amount of pro-style offenses in College. I'm not arguing that Stroud isn't a good prospect but QB's who come from Pro-Style offenses, especially when they have way more talent than their opponents are huge question marks. The question with these QB's should be are they successful because of the system or because they are great QB's. If a QB has lower cognitive skills (lower S2) it makes sense to question if they have the processing ability to be successful when they don't have these advantages. I like Stroud as well. I had him as my #1A/B based on what his S2 was going to be. He's probably still my 1B right now, but the distance between him and Levis and Richardson has shrunk since these possible concerns have come out.

[NorthHawk]

Lots of teams play in a pro style offense but most don’t.
Levis in Kentucky played in basically the same offense we play here. The same principles, the same keys and checks, similar blocking schemes and audibles were what they ran in 2021 with Liam Cohn as OC. He’s straight from the Rams as is Waldron.

Keep in mind he won’t have to play for a year and can really learn the Offense. Just like Mahomes who came from one of those wide open Offenses in college and learned the pro game his first year. All 4 of the top QBs will have that opportunity and would do well if we’re smart and lucky enough to draft one.