obiken wrote:No doubt, kids dont know what it was like to watch Superman, every Sat then tune into the real Superman on Sunday! He was the best football player of all time I feel. RIP Jim Brown.
c_hawkbob wrote:Brown was filming 100 Rifles (with Raquel Welch, with whom he had Hollywood's first interracial love scene) and refused to leave to attend training camp and when the team insisted he retired. Can't say I blame him. If the team had been more accommodating he may have played on for a few more years.
c_hawkbob wrote:Brown was filming 100 Rifles (with Raquel Welch, with whom he had Hollywood's first interracial love scene)...
c_hawkbob wrote:Brown was filming 100 Rifles (with Raquel Welch, with whom he had Hollywood's first interracial love scene)...
RiverDog wrote:Are you sure? I always thought that William Shatner and Nicole Nichols of Star Trek (the original series) held that distinction.
c_hawkbob wrote:Brown was filming 100 Rifles (with Raquel Welch, with whom he had Hollywood's first interracial love scene)...
RiverDog wrote:Are you sure? I always thought that William Shatner and Nicole Nichols of Star Trek (the original series) held that distinction.
c_hawkbob wrote:That was a small screen kiss vs a silver screen full fledged love scene (even referred to as a 'sex scene' at the time).
NorthHawk wrote:Best player ever. Maybe the best athlete the NFL has seen although Bo Jackson might have an argument.
Averaged 5.2 yards per carry and 100 yards/game over 9 years. He was also a standout Lacrosse player.
RIP Jim Brown and thank you for your contribution to the game we all enjoy.
TriCitySam wrote:A world class abuser of women....
RiverDog wrote:Very true. And I wonder how Brown would have fared had he lived in the contemporary era. Back in the 50's-70's, women were much more reluctant to file a complaint or press charges than they are nowadays. They'd call the police, report a crime, then not follow through, either being talked out of it by the police or not wanting to endure the embarrassment of having to testify against them or face them in court and/or the social stigma attached with being a victim of a sex crime. That somewhat exists in today's society, but not nearly to the same extent that it did 50-60 years ago.
But on the other hand, Brown did make some positive contributions to our society, including his work on civil rights issues and his crusade against gang violence, so at least to some degree, it balances out the human flaws he had. Certainly, his loved ones are worth our condolences.
Edit: I just came across a very good article about Jimmy Brown that I thought you folks would be interested in:
https://www.thenation.com/article/society/jim-brown/
RiverDog wrote:Very true. And I wonder how Brown would have fared had he lived in the contemporary era. Back in the 50's-70's, women were much more reluctant to file a complaint or press charges than they are nowadays. They'd call the police, report a crime, then not follow through, either being talked out of it by the police or not wanting to endure the embarrassment of having to testify against them or face them in court and/or the social stigma attached with being a victim of a sex crime. That somewhat exists in today's society, but not nearly to the same extent that it did 50-60 years ago.
But on the other hand, Brown did make some positive contributions to our society, including his work on civil rights issues and his crusade against gang violence, so at least to some degree, it balances out the human flaws he had. Certainly, his loved ones are worth our condolences.
Edit: I just came across a very good article about Jimmy Brown that I thought you folks would be interested in:
https://www.thenation.com/article/society/jim-brown/
Aseahawkfan wrote:Definitely a different time. I always liked Sean Connery, but he publicly said he was raised to believe it was ok to put your hands on a woman if she got out of line. He never changed his opinion even during a public interview. I remember watching films like The Quiet Man with John Wayne where it was considered comedy when he was slapping a woman to teach her a lesson.
Brown was raised during that time. I know it's hard to accept that people were raised in a lot of terrible ways in the past, but that's the way it was. A lot of men from that era were raised that it was acceptable to use physical force to keep women in line.
Seems absurd as a kid raised in the 80s as I was. But that was a different era of men and a different time here and abroad.
I can't fault Jim Brown for being raised like men of that time. He certainly wasn't alone being involved in such incidents. I know Muhammad Ali also had done such things as well. I'd bet if you could use a magic crystal ball to show what men and women do to each other, a whole lot of men and women would not withstand the scrutiny. Not sure many could.
That's why I just say R..I.P. to most folks. They finally to get lay down and see what lies in the Great Beyond. No more having to walk the world and manage all that comes with that good and bad.
RiverDog wrote:I don't completely agree with that. My dad, born in 1925, 11 years before Jimmy Brown, was a tough guy, an all state halfback in high school, ran the 100 yard dash in 10.1, 5' 11" 195 lbs with a 32" waist, and he never behaved anywhere close to what Brown was accused of. He drilled into me at a very early age that I was never to strike a woman even if she hit me first. Like all couples, mom and dad got into arguments, but never anything close to it turning physical. Nor do I recall any of my parent's friends having to deal with domestic violence, and I was born in 1954. So at least from a personal experience, I never witnessed any domestic violence until I was out of high school and learned of a classmate who regularly beat his girlfriend.
Unlike something like slavery, which was completely legal and morally acceptable behavior in the 18th century where our contemporary society has projected our 21st century standards onto men like Washington and Jefferson, striking a woman has always been illegal and morally unacceptable, or at least it was during Brown's heyday. It was wrong then and it's wrong now. The difference is that in the 50's-70's, domestic violence it was covered up and swept under the rug. Our society made female victims of DV feel like they were damaged goods, were reluctant to file charges.
I'm not excusing Brown's behavior simply due to his upbringing. It's an explanation for how he was, not a justification.
RiverDog wrote:I don't completely agree with that. My dad, born in 1925, 11 years before Jimmy Brown, was a tough guy, an all state halfback in high school, ran the 100 yard dash in 10.1, 5' 11" 195 lbs with a 32" waist, and he never behaved anywhere close to what Brown was accused of. He drilled into me at a very early age that I was never to strike a woman even if she hit me first. Like all couples, mom and dad got into arguments, but never anything close to it turning physical. Nor do I recall any of my parent's friends having to deal with domestic violence, and I was born in 1954. So at least from a personal experience, I never witnessed any domestic violence until I was out of high school and learned of a classmate who regularly beat his girlfriend.
Unlike something like slavery, which was completely legal and morally acceptable behavior in the 18th century where our contemporary society has projected our 21st century standards onto men like Washington and Jefferson, striking a woman has always been illegal and morally unacceptable, or at least it was during Brown's heyday. It was wrong then and it's wrong now. The difference is that in the 50's-70's, domestic violence it was covered up and swept under the rug. Our society made female victims of DV feel like they were damaged goods, were reluctant to file charges.
I'm not excusing Brown's behavior simply due to his upbringing. It's an explanation for how he was, not a justification.
Aseahawkfan wrote:I named some prominent men that also engaged in the behavior, though Connery was never accused that I know of. I listed a movie where an icon like John Wayne was shown striking a woman as a show of man putting a woman in her place for purposes of comedy. I listed another famous athlete Muhammad Ali who was involved in similar altercations.
Like you I never witnessed DV in my household and was taught never to hit women and I never heard of it in any of my relative's houses, but I heard what I heard and seen what I seen from public figures of that older generation. The cops and society as a whole did not seem to stigmatize DV as much in Brown's day. It's like drinking as well. We like to pretend that older generation was less prone to addiction, but they had a ton of alcoholics before it was diagnosed as alcoholism. Drug problems were more common than they appeared to be.
Brown grew up during a different time with different behavioral standards. The man's dead now. I don't see the point of judging him by modern behavioral standards when he obviously wasn't raised in that type of environment.
I'm glad behavioral standards have changed because some of the stuff that older generation believed in and was taught sounds insane when I listened to it.
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