RW: Great season... or was it...

[mykc14]

Statistically RW had an outstanding season. He put the offense on his back. 82% of teams yards 97% of TDs, but too often our O failed to sustain drives. This Carson’s game is a perfect example. 1st half O had like 25 yards, then in the 2nd half they were nearly unstoppable. RW picks them apart in the 2nd half but can’t sustain a drive in 1st half. What gives? This team has elite Offensive potential, but can’t get it going sometimes. We have got to get better upfront! I’m excited to see what the Hawks and RW can do with a vastly improved OL... but at the end of this season I’m just left with my hands up thinking what if...

[Anthony]

Statistically RW had an outstanding season. He put the offense on his back. 82% of teams yards 97% of TDs, but too often our O failed to sustain drives. This Carson’s game is a perfect example. 1st half O had like 25 yards, then in the 2nd half they were nearly unstoppable. RW picks them apart in the 2nd half but can’t sustain a drive in 1st half. What gives? This team has elite Offensive potential, but can’t get it going sometimes. We have got to get better upfront! I’m excited to see what the Hawks and RW can do with a vastly improved OL... but at the end of this season I’m just left with my hands up thinking what if...

You see that is the point despite leading the league in sacks, hits and hurries, being #5 in dropped passes, no run game and horrible play calling and design and this stupid we cant win in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd BS he still had a fantastic season. '

Now imagine he had an avg oline
an avg run game
12th in drops
a competent OC
and a philosophy were you play to win from the beginning

I agree I am thinking what if, but not about Rw this cemented him to be that he can carry the team if he just had a little help like what the other Elite Qbs get. Add to that imagine if he had a true #1 wr that was bigger than 6 foot. All his current top 3 are 6 foot or less.

[RiverDog]

Disappointing season, Russell included.

[Anthony]

Disappointing season, Russell included.

Thaks coming from you that is the equivalent of saying he ins MVP and #1 QB ever

[Largent80]

Except for DBaldy, RW was THE offense, there simply is no other way to put it.

[Anthony]

Except for DBaldy, RW was THE offense, there simply is no other way to put it.

I actually Agree DB was the only reliable offensive weapon Rw had.

DB accounted for 25% of Rws passing yards and 24% of his passing TDs

[RiverDog]

We were 1-12 on 3rd down today. You can't excuse Russell from all of that pathetic performance.

[burrrton]

One one play, I saw an Arizona d-lineman have to decide whether to take the handoff or tackle RW.

I hope every one of our o-linemen are gone next season, and I'll extend that to Cable- it literally cannot get any worse.

From SB champ to getting laughed off your own field in 4 years. I'm wearing a paper bag over my head next year.

[Anthony]

We were 1-12 on 3rd down today. You can't excuse Russell from all of that pathetic performance.

first how many were passes vs runs, how many drops, how many times were no one open, how many times did he have no time, I am not excusing anything, but when there are so many issues the last thing I am going to worry about is the guy who accounts for over 82% of our yards and over 95% of our tds. Not when he has the most hit, sacked and hurried oline, no run game, and 5 th most drops. and the play calling and design is aweful. Thats like having a car with no engine no tires, no battery but saying the missing mirror is the problem

[RiverDog]

One one play, I saw an Arizona d-lineman have to decide whether to take the handoff or tackle RW.

I hope every one of our o-linemen are gone next season, and I'll extend that to Cable- it literally cannot get any worse.

From SB champ to getting laughed off your own field in 4 years. I'm wearing a paper bag over my head next year.

Well, Britt is staying, probably Brown, too. Whether they deserve to stay or not is beside the point as I doubt that we'll churn over the entire OL and coaching staff.

But I'm getting damn tired of the excuses, the "vastly improved" statements, the "this line has more talent" proclamations, the "colleges aren't producing offensive linemen anymore" and the "other teams have problems with their OL's, too." excuses. We're like my dog that will throw up its dinner then eats the vomit back up. It's the same old chit, different season.

We are not even close to being SB quality. Defense, maybe. But as a team, we're not much better, if at all, than the Cards, and they'll be changing HC's tomorrow.

[Aseahawkfan]

When you're assessing team problems, you look at what was right and Russell Wilson was one of the few bright spots on this team. This idea some have of perfection from the QB is ridiculous. Even with every single mistake Russell made, he still added more to this team by a huge margin than he took away. That is what you expect from every great QB. Perfection is impossible. Any time you have a QB that can put up Russell's production, your problem is not at all at QB. So you need to lay that aside, assume he's going to do what he needs to do to maintain and slightly improve because he doesn't have much room to get better given what he gives versus even the average great QB, and you move to the real problems, the real negatives playing below the average.

What units and players do we have playing below the average?

1. First place to look is O-line and RB. Improving these two units substantially will help this team more than fretting over the Pro Bowl, high performing QB not being perfect on every play or pointing out his mistakes. That's not how you make something better.

2. Defense needs some younger, healthier replacements. Sherm you rehab and get back. He's still great.Earl's still great. Maxwell seems to fit what this team does and might be worth retaining for a reasonable price. Kam should be replaced. He's worn down and isn't worth what we're paying him.

3. LBs are still solid. Add some quality depth.

4. Defensive line. Some assessing needs to be done here for certain. We have some quality players like Frank Clark. We have some old players that seem to be slowing down. We have a draft pick that didn't make it to a single practice or game this season and may be a lost pick. This unit needs some work.

5. Kicker. This guy needs to be replaced. Bad snaps or whatever excuse people want to make for this guy, bottom line is you pay an NFL kicker to be good from up to 50 yards in tight games. You keep finding a new guy until you get one. Walsh is at best a league average kicker with weak long-range accuracy. We need to upgrade here.

6. WRs. Unit is looking promising. Needs more depth and the usual bigger, PHYSICAL target would be nice, but not necessary.

7. RB. This is the area where we're really hurting. Without the run threat, we're not playing our style of ball. We either need to find a run threat or hire a quick, short passing game OC. Bevell obviously doesn't know how to retrain the QB and build an offense that can move the ball with short passing when the run game is dead. The entire reason New England moved to their uptempo, short passing attack was because they couldn't move the ball on the ground as well. This is what you do when you don't have a run game and our OC doesn't seem to be able to do this.

8. Punter. Ryan still seems solid.

9. O-line. All positions. Need sift the garbage and see what we can keep.

10. O-line coaching. We need to go in a different direction. It's not working unless we have one of the most brutal RBs in history.

11. O-line scouting. Even the scouts need to be looked at for failing to find quality O-linemen.

12. O-line. There is no aspect of the offensive line that doesn't need to be looked at carefully this season. They should be studying what Sean Payton did with the O-line to make Drew Brees as effective as he has been and trying to emulate it.

13. TEs. I'd like to retain Jimmy Graham, but I think it will cost too much. We still haven't found a great blocking TE and this team operates better with one. We need to bring in some more TE competition and find another Zach Miller. Miller was the perfect TE for the type of offense we want.

It's time to fix what is seriously wrong with the team, not micro-analyze the mistakes of our Pro Bowl, elite QB. He is not the problem with this team. If I thought the owner or coaching staff were looking at Russell the way some of fan base does seeing every little error as some example of Russell's lack of greatness, I'd want them all gone. It's why fans aren't GMs and coaches of teams. They don't seem to get that perfection is out of the question. All you look at is what does this guy bring to the team, is it way above what I could get in the draft or free agency, if the answer is yes, you move on. Russell fits that criteria. Move on from discussing the shortcomings of Russell Wilson. It's a waste of time. He adds way more than he takes away and you build around that in this league or you end up like Cleveland, Arizona, or similar perennial failing teams.

[chris98251]

Wilson should not have those kind of numbers is the problem, no QB should lead the team in rushing, and he leads by double the next closest person. He could be having great passing yards and TD's still but not be almost all the offensive production as a contributor.

Defense as stated needs to move more of the youth movement forward, Kam love the guy but McDougal held up well and should be resigned, same for Coleman in place of Lane. Richardson makes the whole D line better, needs to be brought back if possible. Yes he is costly but you get the production from everyone else around him at a high level that makes it worth while. He is not at a Tez level but has the same effect where teams have to account for him exclusively which frees up someone on the edge or Jones and Reed inside.

TE's Vannett needs to be used, he can block and catch, Graham there are two things well actually three that are a problem, he doesn't block worth crap and takes plays off when he is not a target, throw in his salary and the downside counterbalances his upside.

Of the ageing secondary, Kam, Earl, Sherm all should be on the block, we have McDougald if we resign and Hill as well as Thompson, and don't forget Shead can play as well there. If we want to reload quickly those three guys traded for picks that would be higher end would help a lot. Will not be a popular thing and we won't move them all but that's where our value and depth really is.

[Anthony]

Wilson should not have those kind of numbers is the problem, no QB should lead the team in rushing, and he leads by double the next closest person. He could be having great passing yards and TD's still but not be almost all the offensive production as a contributor.

Defense as stated needs to move more of the youth movement forward, Kam love the guy but McDougal held up well and should be resigned, same for Coleman in place of Lane. Richardson makes the whole D line better, needs to be brought back if possible. Yes he is costly but you get the production from everyone else around him at a high level that makes it worth while. He is not at a Tez level but has the same effect where teams have to account for him exclusively which frees up someone on the edge or Jones and Reed inside.

TE's Vannett needs to be used, he can block and catch, Graham there are two things well actually three that are a problem, he doesn't block worth crap and takes plays off when he is not a target, throw in his salary and the downside counterbalances his upside.

Of the ageing secondary, Kam, Earl, Sherm all should be on the block, we have McDougald if we resign and Hill as well as Thompson, and don't forget Shead can play as well there. If we want to reload quickly those three guys traded for picks that would be higher end would help a lot. Will not be a popular thing and we won't move them all but that's where our value and depth really is.

RW is the first player in nfl history to make uo over 80% of his teams offensive yards. He is also the first player in nfl history to make up over 95% of his teams offensive tds. Imagine if he had help. In addition he led tthe NFL in total tdsd and passing tds

[chris98251]

The whole point is that he had those numbers in the first place, how good is a team that has one player that carries it, look at Basketball, Chamberlin, Iverson, Dr.J all were elite and they were it on their teams early in their careers, it took a move and supporting cast for Chamberlin and Dr. J going to the 76ers to win. Baseball Griffey could not win it by himself in Cincinnati, Marino as good as he was did not win a Championship either but had great numbers. Archie Manning on the Saints and Dan Pastorini of the Oilers are two QB's that were awesome but on teams that did nothing to surround them with good coaches and or talent as well. Brady would not be anything without the innovative mind of Belichek.

A great defense is a good start, most champions have that, but a offense that is multi dimensional is a must as well, does not have to be the top running and or passing, but able to do both depending on what a defense takes away. We could not do either consistently all season. We relied on Wilson and the broken play most the time.

[obiken]

No it was not a good season. In September, We started as a favorite to win the SB. Now injuries to Avril, KC, and Sherm would have crippled that and it was no ones fault.
However, we lost 3 games because the FG kicker would not have made a good pimple on Josh Brown's butt. However, I always felt betting on FG kicks borders somewhere between a calculated risk and a foolish gamble too many moving parts!! The Skin game was really the beginning of the end. You lose a game at home against a team that was not as good. We cannot block to save RW's life, and I am just amazed he was never hurt this year. We have to improve that area, period.
No, if I would have told CBob, HS, or River, that we would go 5-3 on the road and not made the Playoffs, they would have thought I was crazy. (Which they rightfully they probably think that sometimes anyway!!!)

[Anthony]

The whole point is that he had those numbers in the first place, how good is a team that has one player that carries it, look at Basketball, Chamberlin, Iverson, Dr.J all were elite and they were it on their teams early in their careers, it took a move and supporting cast for Chamberlin and Dr. J going to the 76ers to win. Baseball Griffey could not win it by himself in Cincinnati, Marino as good as he was did not win a Championship either but had great numbers. Archie Manning on the Saints and Dan Pastorini of the Oilers are two QB's that were awesome but on teams that did nothing to surround them with good coaches and or talent as well. Brady would not be anything without the innovative mind of Belichek.

A great defense is a good start, most champions have that, but a offense that is multi dimensional is a must as well, does not have to be the top running and or passing, but able to do both depending on what a defense takes away. We could not do either consistently all season. We relied on Wilson and the broken play most the time.

MY point was that despite no run game, a horrible oline, the 5th most drop passes in the league, hrrible play calling and design RW was still able to put up those numbes and give us a chance. Imagine if he had some help

[Anthony]

No it was not a good season. In September, We started as a favorite to win the SB. Now injuries to Avril, KC, and Sherm would have crippled that and it was no ones fault.
However, we lost 3 games because the FG kicker would not have made a good pimple on Josh Brown's butt. However, I always felt betting on FG kicks borders somewhere between a calculated risk and a foolish gamble too many moving parts!! The Skin game was really the beginning of the end. You lose a game at home against a team that was not as good. We cannot block to save RW's life, and I am just amazed he was never hurt this year. We have to improve that area, period.
No, if I would have told CBob, HS, or River, that we would go 5-3 on the road and not made the Playoffs, they would have thought I was crazy. (Which they rightfully they probably think that sometimes anyway!!!)

As a team I agree, but given all that happened and the lack of any help what RW did was amazing, and has never been done before

[RiverDog]

No, it wasn't a "great season" for Russell, and I think even he would admit it. It's virtually impossible for a quarterback of a 9-7 team to have an MVP caliber season. Mathew Stafford put up some gaudy stats in some seasons, but not many people talked about him as being an MVP. The quarterback is by far the most important position on the field and if you are to assign a W/L to one player, it has to be the QB. Indeed, some of Russell's most impressive and talked about stats has been his W/L record.

Having said that, I still consider Russell a top 5 or 6 QB. We're never out of it with him in the game,

It's nearly a foregone conclusion that Tom Brady will win the MVP this season, as well he should.

[c_hawkbob]

Russ wouldn't say it was a great season because his measure of a great season is team success.

He had a great year though, he kept us from being a 4 win team.

[Hawk Sista]

Yes, Bob. Exactly. I’m quite sure RW is sick today. The Hawks missed the playoffs for the first time since his arrival, so I’m certain he is disappointed in the season. But to ignore that we would’ve had a much worse record w/ ANY other QB is foolish. Sure, had he been better in certain moments we may have picked up a game or two, but w/o him, we’d surely have dropped about 5 games.

This team had some bad breaks. Some unlucky and others self-inflicted. Change is a coming in the offseason, but first I’ll tip my cap to RW for playing his ass off all year long.

[Hawktawk]

Hell yes he had a great season . He set several all time NFL and team records. As has been stated this is a 4 win team without Wilson. I believe he led the league in TD passes as well.

Of course he wouldn’t say it was great year due to the teams record but the question wasn’t whether the team had a great season . Russ had a few bad plays that hurt Seattle but he saved a lot more plays than he gave up.

Good lord look at him blocking 25 yards down field , leaping over people etc.he will do anything to win.

He’s going to be the greatest dual threat QB ever when it’s said and done. He might be already .
Great job Russ! Thanks for the entertainment . We will get em next year. Always got a chance with him in the building .

[RiverDog]

Good lord look at him blocking 25 yards down field , leaping over people etc.he will do anything to win.

And he made a pretty decent block. That impressed the hell out of me.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="RiverDog"]

And he made a pretty decent block. That impressed the hell out of me.[/quote


Yes he stiff armed the guy pretty well. Totally textbook. I can barely remember any qb actually blocking much less running down a play 25 yards downfield to put an actual effective block on a pro bowl corner.

They broke the mold when they made the cyborg. Russ ain’t the problem. Build him a line .

[RiverDog]

Yes he stiff armed the guy pretty well. Totally textbook. I can barely remember any qb actually blocking much less running down a play 25 yards downfield to put an actual effective block on a pro bowl corner.

They broke the mold when they made the cyborg. Russ ain’t the problem. Build him a line .

I can remember Hass throwing a block or two, and I think he was right behind Beast during the Beastquake run against the Saints.

Russell's not the only quarterback to get downfield and throw a block, but that shouldn't take away from his effort to spark some life into that lifeless corpse of an offense.

[Zorn76]

RW had a Great year considering he had (yet again) a Dog S*** line with Tweedledee and Tweedledum running the offense.

[Hawk Sista]

Hass did it a time or two... RW has done it more than most. Several years ago, he played led Beast mode as he scored. A friend of mine who is a niner fan sent me a text that read “mad respect for your new fullback...#3.”

[Hawktawk]

He will go under the pile for a fumble (often his own unfortunately ) . He’s tackled people cleaning up his mistakes including getting Greg Hardy on the ground a couple of years ago.

Hass was scrappy too . But Wilson could likely play on either side of the ball in numerous roles. He’s a remarkable athlete albeit undersized . But contrast him with the physically imposing Newton avoiding diving on a fumble in the super bowl. his effort is special. Imo he still should be the MVP although he has no shot. Nobody makes more of a difference for a team.

Glad we have him. I hope we can keep him because he will be th most coveted FA in history if he hits the open market.

[RiverDog]

He will go under the pile for a fumble (often his own unfortunately ) . He’s tackled people cleaning up his mistakes including getting Greg Hardy on the ground a couple of years ago.

Hass was scrappy too . But Wilson could likely play on either side of the ball in numerous roles. He’s a remarkable athlete albeit undersized . But contrast him with the physically imposing Newton avoiding diving on a fumble in the super bowl. his effort is special. Imo he still should be the MVP although he has no shot. Nobody makes more of a difference for a team.

Glad we have him. I hope we can keep him because he will be th most coveted FA in history if he hits the open market.

I think that you're stretching it when you say that Russell could play multiple positions. Perhaps as a WR, kick returner, or kick coverage, but I can't see him playing on the defensive side of the ball. That shouldn't take away from my assessment of his incredible athletic skills, but they just don't align with those of a defensive player in the NFL.

To your point Newton refusing to dive on his own fumble in the SB: When that play happend, a number of our defensive players, who supposedly had a rift with the offense, RW's not black enough, and so on, said immediately that Russell wouldn't have thought twice about diving on that ball.

[Hawk Sista]

RW made at least two great tackles this year, one being fantastic. Though the ones I reference both came after costly picks, the angle he took and the take-downs were impressive. He is a superb athlete and we are very lucky to have him, indeed.

[NorthHawk]

It's one of those years where statistics look pretty good, but in reality it's been an average year, at least for him because of the lack of team success.

[mykc14]

At the end of the day I want to see how good RW can really be and in order to really know that we have to see him with a productive OL. When he gets the ball out quick and has time it seems like he is as good as anybody. I still look back and think why can't we do that with consistency? The quick passing game. I love the play action game when we our running game is successful, but that hasn't been the case in awhile so we need that quick passing game. Is RW missing receivers, is our O that predictable or do we keep sending WR on deep routes without good check-down options, or is not turning the ball over pushed so hard on RW that he isn't willing to take any chances early in games? Its hard to know for sure but fixing the OL would go a long ways in allowing us to see how good RW can be.

[RiverDog]

It's one of those years where statistics look pretty good, but in reality it's been an average year, at least for him because of the lack of team success.

Some of his stats looked pretty good, but not all of them. He had a career low completion percentage of 61.3, ranking him at 22nd in the league, tied his career high for interceptions at 11, which was 16th most. He didn't break 4,000 yards as he had done in the previous two seasons.

And to pre-empt some of you, I understand that many of those stats were influenced by things like intentional throw-aways, but the discusion is about pure stats.

[Anthony]

At the end of the day I want to see how good RW can really be and in order to really know that we have to see him with a productive OL. When he gets the ball out quick and has time it seems like he is as good as anybody. I still look back and think why can't we do that with consistency? The quick passing game. I love the play action game when we our running game is successful, but that hasn't been the case in awhile so we need that quick passing game. Is RW missing receivers, is our O that predictable or do we keep sending WR on deep routes without good check-down options, or is not turning the ball over pushed so hard on RW that he isn't willing to take any chances early in games? Its hard to know for sure but fixing the OL would go a long ways in allowing us to see how good RW can be.

A guy I know sent me a DVD with the all 22 of the Hawks for this season. It is pretty bad, forget the bad blocking which was aweful to include 55% hit, hurries and sacked this last game, Forget being #5 in drops, for get no run game. Here is what I saw and he confirmed as well. example splays 3rd and 3 everyone going 10 or more yards 2nd and 2 everyone going go routes, 3rd and 8 everyone 7 or less with 2 guys within 3 yards of each other. these are a few reoccurring examples. Now when the routes were decent is were the oline had issues, there were time sit appears Rw had a pocket no one within 2 yards of him, but remember he needs to step into the throw there for 2 yards is nothing. There were times he had a pocket and what appeared someone open, but he did not throw it, not sure if it was him or he saw something, or down and distance issues. For me, I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt given all he has accomplished and did with virtually no help. MInd you I was never a big Hass fan, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt a lot. What I do not know is why we did not run what we did in the later part of 2015, I am guessing because the oline was worse and the run game was worse or Bevell is an idiot or all 3.

Now DB made a comment that I found interesting, as it related to the Jags game, He said and I am paraphrasing, they game planned for the jags to be in zone, but they instead were in man to man. Okay fine but why did it take a whole qtr to adjust, I believe that is the biggest issue for this team it takes them to long to adjust.

Perhaps this write up says it best, they did it for every game and it was pretty much the same every game

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2017/12/30/16819852/seahawks-offensive-line-highlights-duane-brown-cowboys-demarcus-lawrence-russell-wilson

[Anthony]

Some of his stats looked pretty good, but not all of them. He had a career low completion percentage of 61.3, ranking him at 22nd in the league, tied his career high for interceptions at 11, which was 16th most. He didn't break 4,000 yards as he had done in the previous two seasons.

And to pre-empt some of you, I understand that many of those stats were influenced by things like intentional throw-aways, but the discusion is about pure stats.

Actually the point was he had a good year despite the issue she had to deal with, ie 5th most drops, no run game, bad oline etc etc

[Zorn76]

At the end of the day I want to see how good RW can really be and in order to really know that we have to see him with a productive OL. When he gets the ball out quick and has time it seems like he is as good as anybody. I still look back and think why can't we do that with consistency? The quick passing game. I love the play action game when we our running game is successful, but that hasn't been the case in awhile so we need that quick passing game. Is RW missing receivers, is our O that predictable or do we keep sending WR on deep routes without good check-down options, or is not turning the ball over pushed so hard on RW that he isn't willing to take any chances early in games? Its hard to know for sure but fixing the OL would go a long ways in allowing us to see how good RW can be.

It's coaching.
Poor offensive coaching.

[RiverDog]

Actually the point was he had a good year despite the issue she had to deal with, ie 5th most drops, no run game, bad oline etc etc

The post I responded to had no such qualification.

[chris98251]

Actually the point was he had a good year despite the issue she had to deal with, ie 5th most drops, no run game, bad oline etc etc

Regression is not a good year.

[RiverDog]

Regression is not a good year.

Which is what several of us have been arguing. I can't see calling a QB that turns in a 9-7 record as having a "great season."

[obiken]

Which is what several of us have been arguing. I can't see calling a QB that turns in a 9-7 record as having a "great season."

Riv, the ONLY major issue I have with you is in your criticisms of RW. We would have been the Packers this year without RW. Yes, he missed some throws, but we would have been 4-12 without him. What IF he had a Julio Jones to stretch the field. Or a good Running game like the Rams, Falcons, or Pittsburgh. Come on buddy, RW with play action and time to throw? He would be deadly!

[chris98251]

Which is what several of us have been arguing. I can't see calling a QB that turns in a 9-7 record as having a "great season."

That's perspective, if the previous season you were 4 and 12 and would be considered great, going backwards it is not.