Bucs/Packers game

[trents]

Honestly, I did not think TB would beat GB. But the Buc's D came up big and pressured Rogers all day long. That hasn't been done very often this year.

When you stop and think about it, when otherwise juggernaut teams like GB are beat, it's almost always due to the other team getting effective pressure on the QB. Makes you realize how important a stout, athletic D line is to winning the big games as well as D backs who can hold cover.

[c_hawkbob]

K had GB as well but am not surprised.

I think the difference maker was (is) Brady. I think we can put the Brady or Belichick argument to bed.

[RiverDog]

I think the difference maker was (is) Brady. I think we can put the Brady or Belichick argument to bed.

You took the words out of my mouth. I've always been of the opinion that Brady is a system quarterback, but he sure made a liar out of me this season. I still don't like the little prick, though. At least I have a clear favorite team in the Super Bowl this season.

[Aseahawkfan]

You took the words out of my mouth. I've always been of the opinion that Brady is a system quarterback, but he sure made a liar out of me this season. I still don't like the little prick, though. At least I have a clear favorite team in the Super Bowl this season.

You thought Brady was a system QB? Ohhhhhkkkkk.

[Aseahawkfan]

K had GB as well but am not surprised.

I think the difference maker was (is) Brady. I think we can put the Brady or Belichick argument to bed.

What Brady has done is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in sports as far as career dominance. The closest comparison is Bill Russell winning 11 championships as a player coach in basketball.

Brady's Super Bowl and conference championship record is better than most dynastic teams in their entire history much less most NFL teams in their entire history. It's insane. I doubt I see it again in my lifetime.

[RiverDog]

What Brady has done is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in sports as far as career dominance. The closest comparison is Bill Russell winning 11 championships as a player coach in basketball.

Brady's Super Bowl and conference championship record is better than most dynastic teams in their entire history much less most NFL teams in their entire history. It's insane. I doubt I see it again in my lifetime.

In World Series history, Mickey Mantle set records with 43 walks, 26 extra base hits, and 18 home runs, marks that will never be matched. In 116 years, the Yankees have made the post season 56 times. From 1949-1964, the Yankees were in the World Series in all but two seasons. Joe DiMaggio hit safely in 56 games, went hitless in his 57th game, then hit safely in another 15 consecutive games. The next longest hitting streak is 45 games. Ted Williams had a career batting average of .344 and hit 521 career home runs despite having nearly 5 years in the prime of his career taken out due to military service. I don't know about you, but that's some pretty eye popping numbers.

The kicker is that there were only 16 teams in MLB during those years, but nevertheless, those records, at the very least, rival what Tom Brady has accomplished.

[Aseahawkfan]

In World Series history, Mickey Mantle set records with 43 walks, 26 extra base hits, and 18 home runs, marks that will never be matched. In 116 years, the Yankees have made the post season 56 times. From 1949-1964, the Yankees were in the World Series in all but two seasons. Joe DiMaggio hit safely in 56 games, went hitless in his 57th game, then hit safely in another 15 consecutive games. The next longest hitting streak is 45 games. Ted Williams had a career batting average of .344 and hit 521 career home runs despite having nearly 5 years in the prime of his career taken out due to military service. I don't know about you, but that's some pretty eye popping numbers.

The kicker is that there were only 16 teams in MLB during those years, but nevertheless, those records, at the very least, rival what Tom Brady has accomplished.

Exactly. That's the kind of crazy dominance of Tom Brady save he did it in an era with a salary cap where you can't even build and keep amazing teams.

During Bill Russell and the Celtics and the Yankees run, those teams built and maintained the best rosters in their respective sports because it was so easy to do back then. What Brady has done in the modern football era is comparable to the dynastic periods of past eras on teams so dominant that no one could challenge them for a decade or more.

I don't know how he did it. Some combination of talent, luck, leadership, timing, consistency, sacrifice, health, discipline, and what not. It's an amazing streak of dominance to see in the modern era. Some 6th round, physically limited pick that came into the game as a backup to Drew Bledsoe. No one could have seen it coming.

[RiverDog]

From 1964-1975, John Wooden's UCLA teams won 11 championships in 13 years, including 9 in a row, and there were over 100 teams competing for the title, plus he had players for just 3 years and couldn't pay them a dime.

Point is that there's more amazing athletic accomplishments than meets the eye. I don't like terms like GOAT or best ever as it's an apples vs. oranges comparisons. I prefer to leave it as best in the current era.

[NorthHawk]

Brady did it all.
His OL was horrible and their Defense was a sieve. Throwing 3 interceptions and still winning (for the 3rd time in his playoff career btw) just proves how great he is.
He's a one man show, all right.

[Agent 86]

Oh man, you could tell how pissed Rodgers was in post game conference on the decision to kick the FG instead of go for it on 4th down from the 8 yard line. You have to think in his mind on that 3rd down throw he thought 100% he was going to get another shot at it on 4th down. And sure enough, that decision to kick it cost them in the end and they never saw the ball again.

That decision and that TD given up at end of 1st half with some mind boggling defensive coverage was the difference. I have no sympathy for Rodgers or the Packers, but really thought that 3rd down holding call against them that basically sealed the game was hard to take. Refs were letting everything else go including several holds by Bucs defense, and then the one call they make comes at a critical juncture. The WR on the Bucs felt the hold, still went to catch it, and when he realized the ball was going over his head, he sold the call by diving. That flag came out so late, that ref was going to let it go as they had been all game, but was, IMO, pressured into it by the Bucs sideline and the fact it was actually a hold. Once again, no consistency in reffing. They did such a good job to that point of just letting the players play and set a standard, then went against it last second.

Rodgers seemed really dejected, and said some things that are probably going to get people thinking he may want out of Green Bay. Not sure of his relationship with Lafleur, and how he felt about them taking Jordan Love last year in the draft. He is going to win the MVP I think, I feel he should, and maybe he feels he has done all he can in Green Bay. He has now lost 4 NFCCG's in a row, including the heartbreaker in Seattle in 2014.

[trents]

Rogers only has one SB ring but he is a much better QB than that IMO. His post season success rate has been damage by not having the greatest personnel around him most years. Kind of reminds me of Jim Kelly in that regard.

[Aseahawkfan]

From 1964-1975, John Wooden's UCLA teams won 11 championships in 13 years, including 9 in a row, and there were over 100 teams competing for the title, plus he had players for just 3 years and couldn't pay them a dime.

Point is that there's more amazing athletic accomplishments than meets the eye. I don't like terms like GOAT or best ever as it's an apples vs. oranges comparisons. I prefer to leave it as best in the current era.

You use another comparison that will never be equaled. And that's exactly what Brady has done to this point.

[Aseahawkfan]

Brady did it all.
His OL was horrible and their Defense was a sieve. Throwing 3 interceptions and still winning (for the 3rd time in his playoff career btw) just proves how great he is.
He's a one man show, all right.

No one does it all. But you don't want to give credit where it's due.

[RiverDog]

You use another comparison that will never be equaled. And that's exactly what Brady has done to this point.

My point was that there's a lot of records/athletes that have achieved something that will never be equaled.

One of the things that irritated me the most was in 2000 when someone, sportswriters or whom ever, crowned Michael Jordan as the best professional athlete ever, with Babe Ruth 2nd. Apples and oranges.

[Aseahawkfan]

My point was that there's a lot of records/athletes that have achieved something that will never be equaled.

One of the things that irritated me the most was in 2000 when someone, sportswriters or whom ever, crowned Michael Jordan as the best professional athlete ever, with Babe Ruth 2nd. Apples and oranges.

Most of the discussion of athletes in different sports is dumb.

But Brady is the best QB to ever do it. His stats are stellar. His championship run unequaled. We all know championships trump stats overall, but the stats still gotta be good to be in that conversation. Which his why Bradshaw is never mentioned, but Montana was often considered the G.O.A.T. QB before Brady. Now it's clearly Brady as the G.O.A.T. QB. This isn't apples and oranges. This is amongst all QBs in the Super Bowl Era.

As far Michael Jordan, he was the best basketball player I ever watched.

I don't much compare athletes in different sports. That's pretty pointless as different skills and athletic attributes are required. Brady clearly isn't the most amazing athlete and you don't have to be at QB. Rarely is a QB the best athlete on a team. It's usually some WR, RB, or freakish defensive player in football. DK Metcalf is probably the best athlete on the Seahawks. I think Ricardo Lockette might have been the best athlete on the Seahawk when he was here as far measurables go and he wasn't much of a WR. You can be an amazing athlete and not be very great at a given sport. There are so many factors that make a great player in a given sport.

[Uppercut]

Back in the day I hated Muhammed Ali but as he backed up his talk and became the greatest ever he became my favorite athlete. I have gone through the same with Brady for the NFL anyway.

[Aseahawkfan]

Back in the day I hated Muhammed Ali but as he backed up his talk and became the greatest ever he became my favorite athlete. I have gone through the same with Brady for the NFL anyway.

Yep. I don't even like Brady. He seems like a dick. Peyton Manning is a very likeable guy in interviews. Brady not so much. But damn, 10 Super Bowls, 6 wins so far, and 14 conference championships including one on a new team at 43. It's pretty nuts. Never thought I would see something like that. Since the 90s Cowboys, no one else but New England had really built a Dynasty. They maintained it for two decades with no real competition. It's come down to Belichick and Brady's commitment to winning at all costs, including Belichick cheating. But Brady goes on over to Tampa Bay and leads that team to a Super Bowl at 43, while Belichick doesn't even make the playoffs. Not sure what mix of magic Brady has, but it's crazy.

[RiverDog]

Yep. I don't even like Brady. He seems like a dick. Peyton Manning is a very likeable guy in interviews. Brady not so much.

I can't stand the little prick, and not j/b he's not a good interview. He destroyed evidence that would have been critical in a league investigation, walked off the field in a SB rather than congratulate the winning QB, and more recently, took nearly a million dollars from the government meant for struggling employers to pay their employees:

Buccaneers quarterback Tom Brady‘s TB12 company received a Paycheck Protection Program loan in the amount of $960,855. The information comes from data released by the U.S. Small Business Administration. Brady’s company got the money in April, as a product of a small-business lending program that was created by Congress to assist with pandemic relief.

While Brady is fully within his rights to take whatever may have been available, whether he can and whether he should are two different questions. Brady has made many, many millions over the last 20 years in football and elsewhere, and he currently has a $25 million compensation package for 2020 with the Buccaneers. His wife, Gisele Bundchen, has earned even more money in her career than Brady has.

Compare Brady's attitude and behavior to someone like Deshawn Watson, who donated his very first NFL paycheck to hurricane relief.

[NorthHawk]

It's clear I don't think he's the GOAT, but he is the luckiest QB I can think of to ever play in the NFL.
Consider:
Selected by NE, a team on the rise at that time and not a team like the Browns.
Got to sit for part of the season and get a feel for the NFL before getting into a game when Bledsoe was injured.
Got the benefit of the "Tuck Rule" in his first playoff game which started the ball rolling for his success.
Was in a Division where in only a few years of his time in NE (I think 3 years) did another team challenge for the Division Championship and most years didn't even get to .500.
Had a very good to great OL in front of him most of the time.
Had basically the same Offense for his time in NE with a few tweaks.
Had a very good to great Defense for most of his career in NE.

That's just part of the good luck he's had. I wonder how good, but not great player like Alex Smith who had 7 different OC's and systems in 9 years would have done given that solid base
and early success without the pressure of being the 1st overall pick. Just about every other QB drafted has not had these advantages that Brady had or even just a few of
them and it's why I don't think he is the best nor can anyone truly compare QB's on an equal basis. I think he's a very good QB with all his experience, but not the best ever.

[Hawk Sista]

I hear ya North, I really do. In fact, there is a big part of me that wants to pile on with the # of ways he’s been lucky as I cannot stand him. The cheating, the poor sportsmanship, his smug self, etc. (what RD posted for us above is especially loathsome). As far as luck goes, look no further than SB 49. He was losing by 10 points in the 4th quarter and the DE who rag-dolled him all afternoon got injured and was out. The LOB was in BAD shape, too. And then, the play that shall not be named helped to build his legacy as it cemented a win for him and he wasn’t even on the field. (Though he may well have led the Pats to victory had scored a go-ahead TD there.)

But at the end of the day, they won. Brady won. Until this season, I was immovable on my “he’s the luckiest MFer in the world” stance. One could add to his list of lucky s#!+ this season by having a great D and a lot of really talented weapons. But c’mon…the dude is forty effin’ three, he had zero preseason time with a NEW team, he beat the favored Saints and the heavily favored Packers (in GB in January), and he is where he has always been. In the SB again, as a winner. As much as I hate to say it, Tom is the GOAT.

[Hawk Sista]

I’ll add here, that there is a measure of what feels like luck in a lot of games. The David Tyree (who??) catch comes to mind. How about our NFC championship game to get us to SB 49? I felt like Joe was lucky too. After this year though, with a new team, new coach, and another trip around the sun.... what can anyone say? Besides “GO CHIEFS!!!”

[NorthHawk]

I hear ya North, I really do. In fact, there is a big part of me that wants to pile on with the # of ways he’s been lucky as I cannot stand him. The cheating, the poor sportsmanship, his smug self, etc. (what RD posted for us above is especially loathsome). As far as luck goes, look no further than SB 49. He was losing by 10 points in the 4th quarter and the DE who rag-dolled him all afternoon got injured and was out. The LOB was in BAD shape, too. And then, the play that shall not be named helped to build his legacy as it cemented a win for him and he wasn’t even on the field. (Though he may well have led the Pats to victory had scored a go-ahead TD there.)

But at the end of the day, they won. Brady won. Until this season, I was immovable on my “he’s the luckiest MFer in the world” stance. One could add to his list of lucky s#!+ this season by having a great D and a lot of really talented weapons. But c’mon…the dude is forty effin’ three, he had zero preseason time with a NEW team, he beat the favored Saints and the heavily favored Packers (in GB in January), and he is where he has always been. In the SB again, as a winner. As much as I hate to say it, Tom is the GOAT.

He's an incredibly hard worker. I'll say that about him and as an old coach once said that the ability to work hard is an undervalued talent in itself as not everyone can do it.
But he had a great team around him. Look at 2008 when he was lost for the year with a torn ACL in the first game. They went 11-5 without him. That was also one of the
few years when they had competition within the division and lost out on the playoffs to the Dolphins in a tie breaker (also 11-5). So he had a huge amount of support from his
teammates probably as no other QB in history has had over his entire career. He missed 4 games in 2016 due to deflategate and the team went 3-1 so he had a great team around him then, too.
He's also 3-1 in the playoffs when he's thrown 3 or more interceptions. He's simply been blessed like no other QB in the history of the NFL with better and more opportunities to win and that's
why he isn't the GOAT IMO.

[Hawk Sista]

I want to agree with you. SO MUCH. I hear you on all of that. Luck does play a part, for sure. If he’d have been drafted by the Lions or Bengals, what would have become of him? Much of the same could be said of many greats. What if Joe wasn’t with Bill Walsh, for example? What if, say Steve Bartkowski would have played for Walsh? What if Scott Norwood would have hit that FG? Is Troy Aikman really that good, or was he in the right place at the right time? What about the crappy Ds for SD that were zero help to Dan Fouts? What about Moon? And then you have your Dilfers who did win the SB; hell, even Rex Grossman made it to one. What if Moon or Fouts had Chicago or Baltimore’s D? And even plays within a game/season where good and bad luck just seem to follow people. It is a game of inches, after all.

Jeff George had a better arm, almost everyone has better legs, RW beats him with career QBR, as do several others. It comes down to Ws. That said, it’s totally fair to bring up his luck; there has been a lot of it. But since we can’t know the answers to the what if questions, all we have is and what has been. And he is heading to an unprecedented 10th SB with a new team. I don’t know what to say.

[NorthHawk]

That's what I'm saying. We can't anoint a player as the greatest of all time when there is so much inequity in the comparisons.
For example we will never know how good Alex Smith might have been. We saw a glimpse after 1 year in KC with a great HC and system
as well as a strong group around him. I would suggest to you Smith has better tools to work with, he's a lot smarter than Brady in real life
(which may or may not translate to the field), but he never got an equal opportunity to really compare.

I think Brady is a very good QB, and well above average, but I also think players with a similar skill set were equally as good or maybe better.
I'm thinking P. Manning, maybe Eli Manning and Dan Marino off the top of my head. They would have thrived in the system in NE and maybe
even won more championships than Brady. And don't get me started on QBs that played when they called their own plays to compare with.
Those are impossible to compare with todays QBs.

[Hawk Sista]

We agree on the inequity of comparisons. Tom does have the intangibles, the drive, the never-ending work ethic (which includes everything he puts in his body), and the luck to put him as the lead dog in the pack of all-time QBs.

There seems to be a human need to rank things & people (athletes, artists, actors, etc...) and put them in some sort of logical order. This gives fodder to sports journalism and all of us to debate who the best and worst to ever x, y, or z is. To deny that luck, circumstance, and subjectivity play major roles in our conclusions is dishonest, which echoes your point that such exercises are meaningless. But, we all do it across the spectrum. So with that I’ll say again that we agree more than we disagree on this.

[Aseahawkfan]

It's clear I don't think he's the GOAT, but he is the luckiest QB I can think of to ever play in the NFL.
Consider:
Selected by NE, a team on the rise at that time and not a team like the Browns.
Got to sit for part of the season and get a feel for the NFL before getting into a game when Bledsoe was injured.
Got the benefit of the "Tuck Rule" in his first playoff game which started the ball rolling for his success.
Was in a Division where in only a few years of his time in NE (I think 3 years) did another team challenge for the Division Championship and most years didn't even get to .500.
Had a very good to great OL in front of him most of the time.
Had basically the same Offense for his time in NE with a few tweaks.
Had a very good to great Defense for most of his career in NE.

That's just part of the good luck he's had. I wonder how good, but not great player like Alex Smith who had 7 different OC's and systems in 9 years would have done given that solid base
and early success without the pressure of being the 1st overall pick. Just about every other QB drafted has not had these advantages that Brady had or even just a few of
them and it's why I don't think he is the best nor can anyone truly compare QB's on an equal basis. I think he's a very good QB with all his experience, but not the best ever.

What are you talking about? What about Bradshaw who got to play with the Steel Curtain? Or Aikman who got to play with the Cowboys 90 dynasty? Or Phil Simms who got to play with one of the best LB Corps in history led by Lawrence Taylor?

You should just say like Riverdog that you don't like him and won't give him credit for what he's done.

Because no one is buying that luck is what takes you to do 14 conference championship games, 10 super bowls, and 6 wins when there have been far better and more dominant teams than New England in history that still couldn't do it back when there was no real salary cap. Sheesh.

Luck is a factor for every player and team. Staying healthy is. The players around you staying healthy. The coaches doing things right. Luck plays a role in every great players career including Russell Wilson who had one of the best defenses of al time in his first 5 years. A defense that was number one in points allowed 4 years in a row, a feat never before matched not even by the Steel Curtain or the great defenses of the past. Yet we couldn't win back to back Super Bowls.

Brady's the best. Luck had a part in it like every great player's career like Joe Montana being drafted by the San Francisco 49ers with Bill Walsh, one of the greatest coaches in history on one of the greatest rosters in history. Still didn't do what Brady has done.

It's a done deal no matter how much you or Riverdog or anyone else deny it. Brady is the greatest QB in sports history. Period. End of story. That is what he will be considered until someone takes that title from him by doing better than him.

It's why sports are great like that. People can hate your guts. They can call you names. They can do like you're doing trying to twist reality to make your weak argument. But Brady has the rings, has the championship stats, has the regular season stats, and is undeniably and inarguably the greatest QB to ever play in the NFL in the Super Bowl Era.

Yet I want to see him lose in this next Super Bowl. I can't stand the chump. I'm still bitter over that Super Bowl loss we should have had. But Brady smelled blood in the water when Avril and 2 of our CBs went down and like Jaws, he tore us apart. Then Bevell messed it all up with help from Russell and the dumbest play in Super Bowl history.

But whatever. Every great team in history has luck on its side. But you gotta have everything else too to win like this and including being the greatest QB to ever step on the field to do it this many times.

[Aseahawkfan]

That's what I'm saying. We can't anoint a player as the greatest of all time when there is so much inequity in the comparisons.
For example we will never know how good Alex Smith might have been. We saw a glimpse after 1 year in KC with a great HC and system
as well as a strong group around him. I would suggest to you Smith has better tools to work with, he's a lot smarter than Brady in real life
(which may or may not translate to the field), but he never got an equal opportunity to really compare.

I think Brady is a very good QB, and well above average, but I also think players with a similar skill set were equally as good or maybe better.
I'm thinking P. Manning, maybe Eli Manning and Dan Marino off the top of my head. They would have thrived in the system in NE and maybe
even won more championships than Brady. And don't get me started on QBs that played when they called their own plays to compare with.
Those are impossible to compare with todays QBs.

This is total horsecrap. There have been great QBs with better teams in history. Still didn't do what Brady did. Manning had plenty of great offenses and teams, still l couldn't get it done.

This is just you hating on Brady for reasons. Your argument is weak and could apply to any team that has done well. Yet they still didn't do as well as Brady.

I still think one of the biggest reasons Brady was as big a winner as he was was because he was willing to take less money to keep great players to win. Which was still very much his decision, his sacrifice to win more often. He knew he get paid other ways, so he took less to keep a better team around him. It paid off big. You don't give him credit for taking that lower salary all those years to have a better team.

[RiverDog]

There seems to be a human need to rank things & people (athletes, artists, actors, etc...) and put them in some sort of logical order. This gives fodder to sports journalism and all of us to debate who the best and worst to ever x, y, or z is. To deny that luck, circumstance, and subjectivity play major roles in our conclusions is dishonest, which echoes your point that such exercises are meaningless. But, we all do it across the spectrum. So with that I’ll say again that we agree more than we disagree on this.

I agree. No matter the sport, I avoid like the plague comparisons of athletes from different eras. One of the things I look at when gauging a player or coaches' greatness is how they impacted the game. Babe Ruth revolutionized baseball as prior to him, the home run was an anomaly. Before Ruth's 714 career home runs, the most hit by a single player was 138. Wilt Chamberlin was the first true 7'+ player, scored 100 points in a game and they had to change the configuration of the court to minimize his impact. Michael Jordan, on the other hand, didn't revolutionize pro basketball. He simply took what others before him, like Julius Erving, had done and did it better, hanging his tongue out in the process for special effect.

Football is too much of a team sport for any one player to revolutionize, so most of the game changing individuals have been coaches, like Paul Brown and his disciple Bill Walsh. Tom Brady has been an incredible athlete and is obviously the most impactful player of his era, but I cringe whenever I hear people referring to him as the GOAT.

[NorthHawk]

This is total horsecrap. There have been great QBs with better teams in history. Still didn't do what Brady did. Manning had plenty of great offenses and teams, still l couldn't get it done.

This is just you hating on Brady for reasons. Your argument is weak and could apply to any team that has done well. Yet they still didn't do as well as Brady.

I still think one of the biggest reasons Brady was as big a winner as he was was because he was willing to take less money to keep great players to win. Which was still very much his decision, his sacrifice to win more often. He knew he get paid other ways, so he took less to keep a better team around him. It paid off big. You don't give him credit for taking that lower salary all those years to have a better team.

Taking less money doesn't make a player any better than another. That's simply a life choice that he can afford to do that others might not be able to or justify to their families or themselves.
I don't hate Brady's play. I have said he's very good, but by saying someone is the best ever, by definition that's a comparative argument and invites response from looking at
all players that have preceded him or are playing now.
Your argument is he's the GOAT because he happened to be on teams that made it to the SB and who happened to win a bunch of them. That they won 11 games without him tells you he had an excellent team
around him. It's not something that other players have had the luxury of having, therefore it's an unfair comparison.

[Hawk Sista]

They won 11 games, North...but this was after winning 16 the year before with Tom. They did’t make the SB, AFC CG, or even the playoffs that year. And as you pointed out, they were feasting on the middling AFC East. My point is that this is one of few years that Tom didn’t go deep into the playoffs, and it’s because he tore his ACL. He has something truly unique, and while luck is undeniably a factor (as I’ve said, this is the case with everyone), he has already done more than any other QB in history, and he ain’t done yet.

If your point is that there is no way to have apples to apples comparisons for QBs, and ergo, there is no way to determine who is really the best - that is a legitimate position to take. But if we are doing this (meaning discussing who is the best QB ever), & we seem to be, I don’t know how you can land on any other name.

[NorthHawk]

They won 11 games, North...but this was after winning 16 the year before with Tom. They did’t make the SB, AFC CG, or even the playoffs that year. And as you pointed out, they were feasting on the middling AFC East. My point is that this is one of few years that Tom didn’t go deep into the playoffs, and it’s because he tore his ACL. He has something truly unique, and while luck is undeniably a factor (as I’ve said, this is the case with everyone), he has already done more than any other QB in history, and he ain’t done yet.

If your point is that there is no way to have apples to apples comparisons for QBs, and ergo, there is no way to determine who is really the best - that is a legitimate position to take. But if we are doing this (meaning discussing who is the best QB ever), & we seem to be, I don’t know how you can land on any other name.

You'd think the Greatest of All Time would be a statistical leader in some ways, but it doesn't show.
Career Passer Rating - He's 7th (Mahomes, Watson, Rodgers, Wilson, Brees, and Cousins ahead
Pass Completion Percentage - He's 20th
Passing yards per attempt - Hes 35th
Passing interception Percentage - He's 5th
Touchdown pass percentage - He's 25th
Passing Touchdown/Interception Percentage - He's 4th
Touchdown Pass Percentage - He's 25th
Passing Touchdown/Interception Ratio - He's 4th

In many of these categories there are names that show up ahead of Brady quite frequently.
Rodgers is the most common player rated better, but Brees also shows up frequently.
So Greatest of All Time? Not justified. He's had great teams and coaching staffs around him, and that's just good fortune.

I got this info from footballdb.com
https://www.footballdb.com/leaders/care ... pletionpct

[Hawk Sista]

Again, I hear you. Him being in the SB at 43 with a new team as the 6th seed doesn’t make you think as little?

[NorthHawk]

Again, I hear you. Him being in the SB at 43 with a new team as the 6th seed doesn’t make you think as little?

Sure does.
He's a very good QB, I've always said that, but I don't believe he's the best ever and other than longevity, I don't think the evidence supports him being so.

[Hawk Sista]

Fair enough.

[obiken]

Sure does.
He's a very good QB, I've always said that, but I don't believe he's the best ever and other than longevity, I don't think the evidence supports him being so.

I agree NH I think Elway was the best, but he leads in the 2 most important stats, TD in a career, and Total Passing yardage. BTW, Scary stat for us Hawk fans, Mathew Stafford, 16th all time in both, with 0 weapons.

[Aseahawkfan]

I agree NH I think Elway was the best, but he leads in the 2 most important stats, TD in a career, and Total Passing yardage. BTW, Scary stat for us Hawk fans, Mathew Stafford, 16th all time in both, with 0 weapons.

0 weapons? One of his zero weapons was inducted into the Hall of Fame on the first try and is one of the best WRs to ever do it. He had Megatron for seven years. That is not 0 weapons. That is one of the most freak WR athletes in NFL history. Megatron is why I love DK Metcalf so much. DK is a slightly lesser version of Megatron.

[Aseahawkfan]

Brady is the total package. I'm not sure why it's getting argued. Championships combined with regular season and post-season performance is what forms the best. Brady has performed at a high level in every area of the game except rushing. He has the rings with the regular season stats and the insane longevity.

Not sure how else you would rate a QB other than that combination of rings and personal stats that put them at a level above everyone else.

[Aseahawkfan]

You'd think the Greatest of All Time would be a statistical leader in some ways, but it doesn't show.
Career Passer Rating - He's 7th (Mahomes, Watson, Rodgers, Wilson, Brees, and Cousins ahead
Pass Completion Percentage - He's 20th
Passing yards per attempt - Hes 35th
Passing interception Percentage - He's 5th
Touchdown pass percentage - He's 25th
Passing Touchdown/Interception Percentage - He's 4th
Touchdown Pass Percentage - He's 25th
Passing Touchdown/Interception Ratio - He's 4th

In many of these categories there are names that show up ahead of Brady quite frequently.
Rodgers is the most common player rated better, but Brees also shows up frequently.
So Greatest of All Time? Not justified. He's had great teams and coaching staffs around him, and that's just good fortune.

I got this info from footballdb.com
https://www.footballdb.com/leaders/care ... pletionpct

So he's top 5 in some stats, top 30 in others, 7th in passer rating, and has done all of this across two decades of football with changing rules and is number one in Super Bowls won, NFC Conference Championships, and Super Bowls made.

So tell me, you estimate it, how many Super Bowls does Belichick win and get to without Brady? I want to hear your estimate. We literally have a massive number of comparisons of other extraordinary teams that couldn't even win 1 Super Bowl. As well as the crazy dynasties that dominated their era that did not equal Brady.

Yet somehow Brady was just the luckiest QB in history because he had the best teams and coaching? No other QBs had equally good teams and coaching over the years to be able to equal what he did? Chuck Knoll 20 years in Pitt? Tom Landry in Dallas? Bill Walsh in Frisco? But somehow it's just Brady's lucky teams that somehow won even though no one else has been able to replicate this with other supposedly better QBs? Or were they all just worse coaches than Belichick?

You can toss this thinking around all you want. Brady has done something unprecedented. And your "luck" or coaching or defense argument doesn't hold much water because plenty of players had extraordinary coaching, players, luck, and the like around them, but still couldn't get done what Brady got done.

No. You don't need to be number one in any QB category. Dan Fouts had the passing yards record for years. Not one Super Bowl. Troy Aikman barely rates as a QB, yet he's a Hall of Famer who was a great QB for his time. He knew how to lead.

That's Brady. He knows how to win and lead a team to a Super Bowl if you put quality pieces around him better than any QB in history. Most even amazing QBs can barely get it done even with far superior teams around them.

It's a weak argument on your part. I wish we had a magic machine because I'd bet money you take Rodgers or Peyton or Elway and put them with Belichick and the Patriots during the same period, they don't win as often as Brady. Brady has excellent regular and post-season stats. But what he seems to have more than the others is a knack for winning tight games and an absolutely never die attitude, never break, never give up drive to win. Patriots have literally never won a Super Bowl by big points. But the one thing they've always had that has put them over others more often than not is Tom's ability to take the lead and close games.

Anyway, it doesn't matter what you think. As far as the the NFL is concerned, Brady is the best to ever do it. He's untouchable in that position at this point. He's pretty much set the standard for QB greatness for future generations. You want to be the best, you gotta match Tom Brady. His stats and his championships.

[Aseahawkfan]

Again, I hear you. Him being in the SB at 43 with a new team as the 6th seed doesn’t make you think as little?

Some people for reasons don't like to give credit where it is due. Northhawk doesn't want to give Brady his due. But it don't much matter. Sports are sports. You're the best if you have that combination of regular season stats and championships. That's why Joe Montana was considered the best by a huge percentage for years. He had great regular season stats, postseason stats, and most importantly the rings. That's Brady. He's an even better version of Joe Montana without the likability and character. More like a pretty boy villainous Joe Montana.

[obiken]

0 weapons? One of his zero weapons was inducted into the Hall of Fame on the first try and is one of the best WRs to ever do it. He had Megatron for seven years. That is not 0 weapons. That is one of the most freak WR athletes in NFL history. Megatron is why I love DK Metcalf so much. DK is a slightly lesser version of Megatron.

My Bad, I thought he was after that.