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by **I-5** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:30 pm

He's never called plays in the NFL before, but he will be doing so soon. I am assuming this move has Russ' blessing. Anyone know much about him besides being young, and a McVay disciple?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30786085/seattle-seahawks-plan-hire-los-angeles-rams-shane-waldron-offensive-coordinator

by **NorthHawk** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:57 pm

Former passing game coordinator, eh?
He’s someone Pete can push into a conservative corner since he’s never called plays before.
In a couple of years he will become frustrated and move on.

by **obiken** » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:00 am

NorthHawk wrote:Former passing game coordinator, eh?
He’s someone Pete can push into a conservative corner since he’s never called plays before.
In a couple of years he will become frustrated and move on.

I agree NH, but it beats the hell out of Adam Gase, who would have ruined what we have. The upside is he will listen and work with RW. I think there were better out there but it could have been worse. As River said however, when a College has 3 bad FB coaches in a row, when do you start blaming the AD?

by **RiverDog** » Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:06 am

This guys is a stealth candidate. Jake Heaps, a former college QB and friends with both Russell and Waldron, praises the hire so it's fair to assume that they at least ran the decision past Russ. But, as North Hawk said, not having been a play caller leaves him a little more open to influence by the head coach than someone like a former head coach, ie Pederson, Lynn, Gase, et al.

I do not accept the premise that we're "years" away from being a contender. You are what your record says you are, and 12-4 and winning arguably the toughest division in football isn't done with mirrors. If this doesn't work out, then I want to see major changes, not just a little tinkering here and there, and that means Pete Carroll, Russell Wilson, et al.

by **c_hawkbob** » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:01 am

I'm good with this hire (I was worried it'd be a running backs coach or something). My hope is that Pete's level of involvement in the pass offense will be mandating a run/pass ratio and then letting Shane and Russ figure out the pass part of the equation for themselves. Pete can meddle all he wants in the run portion, he seems to do OK there.

by **NorthHawk** » Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:07 am

I would like to see more pre snap motion and more of the Rams coaches philosophy of running a lot of different plays from the same formation.
It can keep the Defense off balance a little instead of seemingly knowing what play is coming.

by **Rambo2014** » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:59 am

Congrats for looking at real talent and dipping into the Rams honey pot

by **mykc14** » Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:29 am

I personally like the hire. He has a ton of coaching experience in the NFL including working under Bill Belichick and was part of the Redskins coaching staff that produced a few head coaches and McVay himself is starting to produce a pretty good coaching tree including Matt LeFleur whose offense plan against the Rams was exactly what the Seahawks should have done. Think about how many easy completions the Rams get against the Seahawks. Think about how many times Jared Goff gets outside on a PA pass. If it were RW on those plays he would get 8 to 10 plus yards just running. One reason Goff has so much space is because he is no threat to run but with RW you have to commit a defender to stop him which will open more things up. I like this hire and think it will be a good one for us. Obviously we don't know if Waldron is going to run McVay's offensive system as well as McVay or LeFleur, but it is a good system. We also don't know much PC is going to allow Waldron to run. I imagine he is going to handcuff him a bit.

by **TriCitySam** » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:09 pm

I like the hire as well. I saw where a Rams guy texted Heaps "this is a bigger loss for us than people realize". A lot of naysayers with regards to Pete, but he wants to win - and he NEVER said he wanted to run the ball more. What he did say was that our runs need to be more "focused". He's brought in a young offensive mind that's been shadowing McVay for 4 years or so. I think Pete gives his guys quite a bit of rope. The Rams can run the ball and have a good passing attack with a QB that's not as good as Russell, so I'm optimistic!

by **mykc14** » Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:16 pm

TriCitySam wrote: he NEVER said he wanted to run the ball more. What he did say was that our runs need to be more "focused".

Although I agree with most of what you said I do think this is a big deal. PC did say we need to run the ball more.

https://www.nfl.com/news/pete-carroll-s ... re-in-2021

https://twitter.com/gbellseattle/status ... 8856750080

"We have to run the ball better. Not even run the ball better, run it more," Carroll said

To me this is a big deal. I don't like that mindset, although overall I agree with aspects of what he is saying. I would rather the mindset be something more along the lines of we need to make better adjustments, better game-planning, etc... all things that he has alluded to. Again, look at what the Packers did. Against the Rams they ran the ball down their throat, but against the Bucs, a team whose defense's strength is clearly against the run, they threw a ton. We need to be able to run the ball when we need to and throw the ball when we need to, not just "run the ball more." PC also complained about teams sitting in a 2-deep zone and believing that running more would limit teams doing this. Again, that is a huge area of frustration. If an offense can't game-plan against a 2-deep zone they shouldn't be in the NFL. Maybe that's one reason Schotty is gone?? I don't know but knowing that a team is sitting in a 2-deep zone should give you an advantage.

by **trents** » Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:34 pm

RiverDog wrote:I do not accept the premise that we're "years" away from being a contender. You are what your record says you are, and 12-4 and winning arguably the toughest division in football isn't done with mirrors.

It certainly wasn't this year.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:23 pm

RiverDog wrote:I do not accept the premise that we're "years" away from being a contender. You are what your record says you are, and 12-4 and winning arguably the toughest division in football isn't done with mirrors.

trents wrote:It certainly wasn't this year.

Nor was it last year as we came up 1/2 yard short of winning the division. It can be argued that we're just a player or two away from a Lombardi.

But close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

by **NorthHawk** » Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:33 pm

We’ve also signed Rams coach Andy Dickerson as Run Game Coordinator. He was their OL coach the last couple of years.
Maybe Pete is going to reform our Run Game to have less predictability. Or at least allow it to be changed.

by **Uppercut** » Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:46 pm

What about Norton if they are cleaning house?

by **NorthHawk** » Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:12 pm

Uppercut wrote:What about Norton if they are cleaning house?

It’s not really cleaning house as Waldron replaced Schotty and Dickerson replaces Brandon Carroll who I think went to
coach at the college level.

by **c_hawkbob** » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:25 pm

Looks like we're snagging the Lambs Assistant O-line coach to be our Run Game Coordinator as well:

https://www.seahawks.com/news/seahawks- ... qUIzGkyDN4

by **obiken** » Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:49 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:Looks like we're snagging the Lambs Assistant O-line coach to be our Run Game Coordinator as well:

https://www.seahawks.com/news/seahawks- ... qUIzGkyDN4

After listening to Greg Olsen on the Herd yesterday, and seeing this hire, it shows me that we dont have an identity. I was the biggest fan of running game and defenses won championships Bob, now I wonder. Its the National Basketball/Football league. No way you beat Mahomey, by putting up 21 points a game, and holding down his possessions, hoping to hold him to 20. I think you let Russ cook and improving our defense, is the best way to go. PM, has lost 9 games in his career and all of them were shoot outs, save one loss to the Colts 19 to 13. You can't do everything well. Pete is in a real quandary here.

by **Hawktawk** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:18 pm

The play of our quarterback was why we lost in the wildcard . Period . Anything we can do to reprogram whatever the second half of the season for Russ the better . He got outplayed by a quarterback with a broken finger who just got traded , basically a throw in on a deal . Start there . Get Russ right

by **Aseahawkfan** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:56 pm

Hawktawk wrote:The play of our quarterback was why we lost in the wildcard . Period . Anything we can do to reprogram whatever the second half of the season for Russ the better . He got outplayed by a quarterback with a broken finger who just got traded , basically a throw in on a deal . Start there . Get Russ right

Can't much argue with this. Seems to have been something happened between the end of that Super Bowl loss and now where Russ has lost his ability to close games.

by **Hawktawk** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:50 pm

Certainly in the postseason he’s had no magic beyond the the wild card in the playoff appearances since that super bowl . His slow starts and mistakes dug the team insurmountable holes to climb out of . Again you look at the moves other contenders are making with qbs and I think we have reached a real critical point in Russs career with Seattle . Hopefully they can get the mojo back but we have to be honest . It hasn’t existed in games that matter the most in 7 years now . I think he’s got something to prove next season , that he can finish a postseason .

by **obiken** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:28 pm

Hawktawk wrote:The play of our quarterback was why we lost in the wildcard . Period . Anything we can do to reprogram whatever the second half of the season for Russ the better . He got outplayed by a quarterback with a broken finger who just got traded , basically a throw in on a deal . Start there . Get Russ right

I agree kinda sorta HS, but what if the Browns and us switched QB's? Come on behind their OLine and Running game, RW would just kill! His decline in my opinion can be traced to the Decline of our Oline, period.

by **Hawktawk** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:30 pm

Baker mayfield beat the Steelers on the road , beat then 2 weeks in a row and finished the game with a left tackle he met in the locker room before the game . I love me some Russ but as I said in my in denial thread , somethings up with Russ . Our line which didn’t rank terribly btw was as healthy as it was all year . Donald was out in the second half . Russ completed 11 passes with a pick 6 for good measure . He’s never had an elite line . Something was off in the second half of the season . I dug up some film of his grade 3 concussion his freshman year of college . It’s Russ like you never saw him before , unconscious for several minutes and taken off on a cart . I’ve heard speculation he was hiding a tbi down the stretch . I hope not . But something was different about Russ than ever before late in the season .

by **RiverDog** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:56 am

Hawktawk wrote:The play of our quarterback was why we lost in the wildcard . Period . Anything we can do to reprogram whatever the second half of the season for Russ the better . He got outplayed by a quarterback with a broken finger who just got traded , basically a throw in on a deal . Start there . Get Russ right

obiken wrote:I agree kinda sorta HS, but what if the Browns and us switched QB's? Come on behind their OLine and Running game, RW would just kill! His decline in my opinion can be traced to the Decline of our Oline, period.

Obi, you keep complaining about our OL, but I don't get the sense that you recognize how incredibly difficult it is to block for Russell. Take a look at this stat and perhaps it can help tell the story better than I can.

Out of 41 quarterbacks with 100+ attempts, Russell ranks 37h in time to throw. The 4 QB's that have a longer time to release average than Russell are Lamar Jackson (age 24), Josh Allen ( age 24), Baker Mayfield (age 25), and Jalen Hurts (age 22). The four are all 7 to 10 years younger than Russell (age 32).

I'm not saying our offensive line is a top 10 unit, but the fact is that Russell has not adjusted his game to compensate for his advancing age, and it's creating this illusion that our offensive line is a sieve. Regardless of whether or not Russell has open receivers, he needs to be getting the ball out of his hands much quicker.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/pass ... e-to-throw

by **Hawktawk** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:32 am

Yes RD this right here.

Watching Mayfield vs a very good pass rush from the Steelers he was unloading the ball immediately and scrambling out decisively and was kept spotless most of the night as a result.

The weird thing with Russ is that the first half season was his best as a pro by far .His accuracy, decision making , timely scrambling were tip top. And without the stats Id guess the second half of the season was statistically one of his worst as a pro.

The line and the scheme and the coordinator didn't change overnight ,matter of fact our running backs were as healthy as all year down the stretch as well, far better than last year when Seattle made the divisional. Russ simply seemed paralyzed and unable to let it fly and when he did it went incomplete or to the other team too often.Its a mystery. Hopefully the new OC team and Russ can work to fix it.

by **RiverDog** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:20 am

Hawktawk wrote:The weird thing with Russ is that the first half season was his best as a pro by far .His accuracy, decision making , timely scrambling were tip top. And without the stats Id guess the second half of the season was statistically one of his worst as a pro.

One of the things that almost certainly factored into this first half of the season vs. second half is the quality of defenses we faced. Our first 8 opponents consisted of Atlanta (#29), New England (#15), Dallas (#23), Miami (#20), Minnesota (#27), Arizona (#13), Buffalo (#14) and San Francisco (#5).

Our second 8 opponents consisted of the LA Rams (#1), Arizona (#13), Philadelphia (#19), NY Giants (#12), NY Jets (#24), WTF (#2), LA Rams (#1), and San Francisco (#5).

The average defensive ranking for the first half of the season was 18th while the 2nd half of the season was 10th. Plus it was actually the first 5 games where Russell really excelled as it was his performance in our first game against the Cards where it started to slide when he threw 3 picks in an overtime loss and two weeks later in our worst loss of the season against the Bills when he threw 2 INT's. You look at the rankings of our first 5 opponents and it's even more skewed than the half season breakdown.

by **NorthHawk** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:28 am

My theory is a combination of better Defenses and us not adjusting to what they took away. They didn't throw much to the TE's when Defenses took away the deep ball and other than some
throws to Lockett for the most part there weren't many shorter passes underneath coverage, either. I don't know if it was Schotty not calling good plays or Russ not going to the underneath
receiver, but they didn't do much of it.
It almost seemed like there was something physically wrong with Russell from about the half way point of the season.

by **RiverDog** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:55 am

NorthHawk wrote:My theory is a combination of better Defenses and us not adjusting to what they took away. They didn't throw much to the TE's when Defenses took away the deep ball and other than some throws to Lockett for the most part there weren't many shorter passes underneath coverage, either. I don't know if it was Schotty not calling good plays or Russ not going to the underneath receiver, but they didn't do much of it.
It almost seemed like there was something physically wrong with Russell from about the half way point of the season.

That's a reasonable take. I, too, feel that it was a combination of factors that included the better defenses that we played in the 2nd half of the season vs. those first 5 that we faced when Russell was putting up the eye popping numbers. Even though he had some good games afterwards, the Arizona game where he threw the 3 picks seems to have been a turning point.

by **Hawk Sista** » Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:56 am

TW wants (& puts in the work) to be the best at everything he does. When he was odds on favorite to be the MVP and started chortling out game-killing turnovers, I think it impacted him and Pete both. PC started reducing the chances for costly turnovers during a run of tougher defenses, and RW’s game and attitude toward the play-calling shifted, IMHO.

By no means do I think we’ve seen the last of RW’s excellence.

by **NorthHawk** » Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:58 am

Hawk Sista wrote:TW wants (& puts in the work) to be the best at everything he does. When he was odds on favorite to be the MVP and started chortling out game-killing turnovers, I think it impacted him and Pete both. PC started reducing the chances for costly turnovers during a run of tougher defenses, and RW’s game and attitude toward the play-calling shifted, IMHO.

By no means do I think we’ve seen the last of RW’s excellence.

I thought that maybe it was something physical, but maybe you're on to something in thinking he lost some of his enthusiasm when Pete pulled in the reins. I think it's a normal human reaction to having some
fun and challenges taken away so maybe the new OC and run game coordinators can regain and maintain that edge.

by **Rambo2014** » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:01 pm

Some Advice for you guys!

Since you are needing Rams coaches you guys better lobby to reach back and get Jeff Fisher to replace your Norton guy

by **Aseahawkfan** » Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:47 pm

RW threw 40 TDs to 13 ints. Normally that is an amazing year. But a handful of other amazing QBs have made this seem like a pedestrian year. Russ had a great year. But at this point Seattle fans don't feel the playoffs and division championship is sufficient.

by **Hawk Sista** » Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:53 pm

I wasn’t commenting on the end of our playoff run inasmuch as I was commenting about RW in the first half (on pace for 60+ TDs) and the 2nd (when he threw more INTs than any of his seasons). I have faith in him and Pete and am not worried about it at this point, but if things don’t get better, I could see him going deshaun Watson light to get out of here.

by **c_hawkbob** » Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:22 pm

Hawk Sista wrote: I have faith in him and Pete and am not worried about it at this point

Bingo. Whole lot of premature jumping ship (or preparing to) going on around here. I think both Russ and Pete have earned a bit more faith than they are being shown.

People are talking like Russ has hit the wall ala Shawn Alexander with his plantar fasciitis! Through the first half of the season he was playing the best he ever has, but for whatever the reason his season went off the rails. I don't think it appropriate yet to apply that dynamic to his career. I'm for seeing what they can do with this next season at least before giving up on the best coach/QB pairing we've ever had.

by **TriCitySam** » Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:24 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:People are talking like Russ has hit the wall ala Shawn Alexander with his plantar fasciitis! Through the first half of the season he was playing the best he ever has, but for whatever the reason his season went off the rails. I don't think it appropriate yet to apply that dynamic to his career. I'm for seeing what they can do with this next season at least before giving up on the best coach/QB pairing we've ever had.

Agreed, I don't have issues with Pete....I mean he's turned us into a real competitor, folks don't appreciate that. Remember what it was like when Flores was running the team?? John and Pete have done a great job.....I think of those that howled about Marty Schottenheimer and canned him with a 14-2 record The Bolts have never reached that level since. 4 trips to the playoffs in 14 years. Would I like to win another SB? Sure, but I am grateful that we are competitive year-in and year-out.

by **I-5** » Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:11 am

I pretty much agree with what everyone is saying here regarding the dropoff in the second half of the season...better defenses, inability to adjust, something physically wrong, demoralized by Pete playing it safe....what about the MVP talk being a factor? He was on a historic ride right out of the gate, and the national media seemed like they were finally on board with Russ, they all loved the hashtag #letrusscook and repeated it like a mantra. Could the expectations on winning MVP for the first time have gotten to him?

by **obiken** » Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:46 am

I-5 wrote:I pretty much agree with what everyone is saying here regarding the dropoff in the second half of the season...better defenses, inability to adjust, something physically wrong, demoralized by Pete playing it safe....what about the MVP talk being a factor? He was on a historic ride right out of the gate, and the national media seemed like they were finally on board with Russ, they all loved the hashtag #letrusscook and repeated it like a mantra. Could the expectations on winning MVP for the first time have gotten to him?

No, we needed to find a balance between LRC, and Ground Pete, we never did, all the while our defense was improving. I think anyone laying this at RW's feet is out to lunch.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:21 am

I-5 wrote:I pretty much agree with what everyone is saying here regarding the dropoff in the second half of the season...better defenses, inability to adjust, something physically wrong, demoralized by Pete playing it safe....what about the MVP talk being a factor? He was on a historic ride right out of the gate, and the national media seemed like they were finally on board with Russ, they all loved the hashtag #letrusscook and repeated it like a mantra. Could the expectations on winning MVP for the first time have gotten to him?

I'm still of the opinion that the unbalanced schedule had more to do with the perceived 2nd half swoon than any other factor. What we saw when we ran out to a club record 5-0 wasn't so much the "Let Russ Cook" effect as it was that of some really bad defenses. It was a weird season, especially the first half, with no crowds in the stands, no preseason games, and a limited summer camp and off season activities. Offenses across the league were lighting it up at the same time Russ was putting up an MVP performance. Russ's 5 game performance was artificially enhanced, like Barry Bonds using steroids to break all those home run records. It was a mirage, or fool's gold. Nor was the back half of the season indicative of the real Russell, either. At this point, he's a very good but not great QB.

As far as what the future holds, I'm not throwing Pete or Russell under the bus just yet. It's incredibly difficult to get a team to the point where we're at, with a proven HC and a QB that with another ring or MVP could make a case for the HOF. I'm not advocating a trade or a coaching change. But I'm getting damn impatient. We can't keep trotting out OC's like they're sacrificial lambs. Waldron now becomes the 3rd OC that we've had in the past 5 years.

by **NorthHawk** » Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:17 am

Russ is concerned about the many sacks he's taking. Some of them are for sure on him, but I wonder about the quicker plays that we don't seem to have in our Offense, or at least don't use very often outside of a few WR bubble type screens.
I can't recall when we saw a bunch of quick outs by WR's in one game or a lot of shorter passes to the TE's. We rarely throw to the RBs out of the backfield either and it's a surprise to me when we do although Carson had a few the last couple of years.
It seems when we need to throw, it's a longer developing play rather than a quicker play and letting the receiver make the necessary yardage. It might just be my memory, but that''s the impression I have of the last 5 years.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:13 am

NorthHawk wrote:Russ is concerned about the many sacks he's taking. Some of them are for sure on him, but I wonder about the quicker plays that we don't seem to have in our Offense, or at least don't use very often outside of a few WR bubble type screens.
I can't recall when we saw a bunch of quick outs by WR's in one game or a lot of shorter passes to the TE's. We rarely throw to the RBs out of the backfield either and it's a surprise to me when we do although Carson had a few the last couple of years.
It seems when we need to throw, it's a longer developing play rather than a quicker play and letting the receiver make the necessary yardage. It might just be my memory, but that''s the impression I have of the last 5 years.

The odd thing is that we had all the tools to do what you are suggesting: A great pass catching RB in Chris Carson, some very good pass catching tight ends like Greg Olsen and Will Dissley, a very good underneath route runner like Tyler Lockett, and a monster WR with size and speed to stretch the field and open it up for the short stuff.

The sacks aren't the biggest thing that's hurting our offense. It's that we are not getting the ball out quickly enough. For whatever reason, Russell has one of the highest time to throw averages in the league. Combine that with his first instinct of saving the play rather than saving the series and you get a lot of sacks.

by **obiken** » Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:53 am

The odd thing is that we had all the tools to do what you are suggesting: A great pass catching RB in Chris Carson, some very good pass catching tight ends like Greg Olsen and Will Dissley, a very good underneath route runner like Tyler Lockett, and a monster WR with size and speed to stretch the field and open it up for the short stuff.
The sacks aren't the biggest thing that's hurting our offense. It's that we are not getting the ball out quickly enough. For whatever reason, Russell has one of the highest time to throw averages in the league. Combine that with his first instinct of saving the play rather than saving the series and you get a lot of sacks.

Your trying to lay this on Russ and I am sorry we just have to agree to disagree. Russ is one of the top 3 QB's in the League, and its not because he has too much time to throw River, that makes no sense. He has more 4th Quarter comebacks than anyone and a lot of that is because Pete finally cuts him loose when he has too. My best friend in Cleveland asked me a question the other day, what if Russ had the OLine that Matt Hasselbeck had? Sorry, he has had nothing close to that! Carpenter was a bust, Ifetti was a penalty machine, the rest outside of Brown are mutt food. PC has no clue how to draft OLinemen. Russ is getting hit 45 times a year! Sorry that's not because he is camping out, getting a manicure, and eating a steak before finding recievers. This story has gone from bad to worse now, and the normally Polyannish Russ, who berates no one, praises everyone, and always end all conversations with go Hawks, has finally had enough, and I agree with him!!

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