Grey Zabel

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Grey Zabel

Postby c_hawkbob » Thu Apr 24, 2025 7:06 pm

Well we went OG in round 1, just not my guy (damn Cowboys!)

Nice that we didn't trade back.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby Aseahawkfan » Thu Apr 24, 2025 7:10 pm

You were right on the position, c-bob. This is a first. None of the remaining QBs were worth a first round pick. They must not be great since no one is taking them.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby govandals » Thu Apr 24, 2025 10:06 pm

Need meets value with the Zabel pick. Glad JS didn't overthink it or try to get cute, just took the obvious pick. This guy feels like he will lock down a spot for the next 10 years.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby River Dog » Fri Apr 25, 2025 4:18 am

I'm shocked, not that the Zabel isn't worth a first-round pick, but that Schneider actually took a IOL, or at least with the intention of playing him at guard, rather than trade back or burn it on a reach for a WR or RB.

And yes, good call C-bob, even though it wasn't the guy you had in your mock.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby c_hawkbob » Fri Apr 25, 2025 6:50 am

Zabel was a possibility for me too, he and Booker are both great looking prospects, but I decided to go with the guy who had done it at the bigger school. Alabama plays a whole other range of competition than North Dakota State. Zabel's Senior Bowl workouts eased that concern though, he was an absolute beast in his one on one drills.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby TriCitySam » Fri Apr 25, 2025 8:47 am

I was on Booker as well, and was pretty well thinking that Schneider would take an OL guy. Sounds like they were trying to trade back, and most of the pre-draft stuff I saw had him going lower so it wouldn’t of hurt my feelings if they would’ve traded down a few spots. I always worry about someone coming from a small program like that we saw what happened with Trey Lance. But at the end, he stuck and got a guard and we sure needed one. I read they had Steve Hutchinson work him out.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby Stream Hawk » Fri Apr 25, 2025 2:16 pm

Great pick. Safe is sometimes better and he also was considered BPA by some. I heard via .net that Daniel Jeremiah said Zabel was his favorite player in the entire draft. Also, is smart and interviews very well. Sounds like a great guy that will work his ass off. IMO he has a Hutch ceiling.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby NorthHawk » Fri Apr 25, 2025 2:29 pm

I’m on a cruise around Japan at the moment so I can’t see the draft live but am encouraged that the Seahawks took an OL that can play inside. ProFootballRumors.com suggests that IOL might not be his final position. It makes sense if you consider JS likes versatility and we could get a better idea after May 1st when the 5th year option on Cross comes due. If Cross isn’t extended it could mean that Zabel moves to LT which leaves us still with a huge hole in the middle.

From ProFootballRumors.com:

While guard could be the rookie’s temporary landing spot, Zabel’s savviness means he could ultimately land at tackle…or perhaps he’ll realize his pre-draft reports and settle in as an elite center. There’s even a chance his role evolves through his rookie campaign. It’s a bit of an unknown, and that certainly provides a bit of intrigue to the selection. Seahawks fans will want to keep an eye on where Zabel lines up during rookie minicamp.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby 4XPIPS » Sat Apr 26, 2025 1:32 am

I am happy to be 100% wrong, I was not expecting us to grab an IOL in the 1st, but happy with the pick. I read he can play center as well, so he may be the answer there as we possibly look for another IOL
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon May 12, 2025 5:20 pm

Seahawks signed their first-round pick Grey Zabel to his four-year, fully-guaranteed $18.471 million contract.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby NorthHawk » Mon May 12, 2025 7:37 pm

I'm a bit concerned we only drafted 1 IOL and no pickups in FA of note. If Zabel gets dinged up then we are back where we were last year. As well, we only have Olu, Sundell, and a UFA Maranges form UCF at Center - so not much experience or high level talent as perceived coming out of College. It seemed like JS took Zabel then wiped his hands and said to himself now let's get back to selecting REAL football players until late in the draft where he threw another bone to the IOL by trying to make College Tackles into Interior linemen. Which hasn't worked out very well for us during his tenure.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby jshawaii22 » Tue May 13, 2025 12:11 am

Seahawks signed their first-round pick Grey Zabel to his four-year, fully-guaranteed $18.471 million contract.


must be nice to be a NFL 1st round pick nowadays. I believe all first round picks are now fully guaranteed for 4 years. And I read the first 2 - 2nd round picks also got fully guaranteed contracts which is probably why we haven't signed the 2 - 2nd round picks yet. All others signed today.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby NorthHawk » Tue May 13, 2025 7:55 am

must be nice to be a NFL 1st round pick nowadays. I believe all first round picks are now fully guaranteed for 4 years. And I read the first 2 - 2nd round picks also got fully guaranteed contracts which is probably why we haven't signed the 2 - 2nd round picks yet. All others signed today.


We can only imagine how much the 1st round selections would demand if they didn't have a salary scale in place.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby c_hawkbob » Tue May 13, 2025 12:06 pm

NorthHawk wrote:I'm a bit concerned we only drafted 1 IOL and no pickups in FA of note. If Zabel gets dinged up then we are back where we were last year. As well, we only have Olu, Sundell, and a UFA Maranges form UCF at Center - so not much experience or high level talent as perceived coming out of College. It seemed like JS took Zabel then wiped his hands and said to himself now let's get back to selecting REAL football players until late in the draft where he threw another bone to the IOL by trying to make College Tackles into Interior linemen. Which hasn't worked out very well for us during his tenure.

College Tackle to pro Guard doesn't bother me much, just like college corner to pro Safety, or TE to FB or even QB to Receiver. Switching sides of the ball now ...

As for Center, I'd like to have drafted one but I do still have hope for Olu.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby c_hawkbob » Tue May 13, 2025 12:09 pm

Seahawks signed their first-round pick Grey Zabel to his four-year, fully-guaranteed $18.471 million contract.

jshawaii22 wrote:must be nice to be a NFL 1st round pick nowadays. I believe all first round picks are now fully guaranteed for 4 years. And I read the first 2 - 2nd round picks also got fully guaranteed contracts which is probably why we haven't signed the 2 - 2nd round picks yet. All others signed today.

A few years ago I got quite a bit of push back in here arguing that fully guaranteed contracts were coming to the NFL, that's why I highlighted it.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby NorthHawk » Wed May 14, 2025 11:16 am

College Tackle to pro Guard doesn't bother me much, just like college corner to pro Safety, or TE to FB or even QB to Receiver. Switching sides of the ball now ...


How is our track record of moving Tackles inside? I think only 1 or 2 players have received a 2nd contract and all the others have been allowed to leave, often to have some success on other teams.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed May 14, 2025 12:01 pm

You can say that about anyone at any position along the o-line for us recently, whether moving them from their college position or not. I don't think our poor drafting of O-linemen is a very good barometer for the practice of moving college tackles to Guard in the pros league wide. I'm just telling you that drafting a college tackle to play Guard in the pros doesn't move my needle much.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby govandals » Thu May 15, 2025 4:33 am

c_hawkbob wrote:drafting a college tackle to play Guard in the pros doesn't move my needle much.


I completely agree, teams do it all the time. Many successful NFL guards were tackles in college. Usually they lack the length and/or athleticism to stick outside. Doesn't mean they aren't good football players, though.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby NorthHawk » Thu May 15, 2025 7:36 am

Unfortunately Schneider has never found any Tackles to play Guard in Seattle. Some have gone on to other teams, but none have stuck here in 14 years.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby govandals » Fri May 16, 2025 10:32 am

NorthHawk wrote:Unfortunately Schneider has never found any Tackles to play Guard in Seattle. Some have gone on to other teams, but none have stuck here in 14 years.


James Carpenter, Germain Ifedi and Justin Britt were all tackles that moved inside. They were all... average?? I hear what you're saying, though, if you need a guard, just draft a freakin' guard, right? Someone that has actually done it. Zabel did start 4 games at LG in college, so he has a little experience there.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby River Dog » Fri May 16, 2025 10:58 am

NorthHawk wrote:Unfortunately Schneider has never found any Tackles to play Guard in Seattle. Some have gone on to other teams, but none have stuck here in 14 years.


govandals wrote:James Carpenter, Germain Ifedi and Justin Britt were all tackles that moved inside. They were all... average?? I hear what you're saying, though, if you need a guard, just draft a freakin' guard, right? Someone that has actually done it. Zabel did start 4 games at LG in college, so he has a little experience there.


Carpenter lost his starting job to a journeyman named Paul McQuistran. We declined to pick up his fifth-year option and was let go in free agency. For a first round pick, I'd say that's below average. Carpenter went on to play relatively decent, average or above average, but that was only after he left the Hawks.

Ifedi was a complete bust at tackle, led the league a couple years in penalties as I recall, moved to guard, and like Carpenter, we declined to pick up his fifth-year option, too. Below average IMO.

I'll give you Britt as I'd say that he was average to slightly above average as a center, but it was only after he failed at both tackle and guard before we found a home for him. Had he been a 3rd day pick, no way would he have been afforded that many opportunities. Sometimes, it seemed like we were as interested in saving face by trying to salvage a bad pick rather than find the best player for the position.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby TriCitySam » Fri May 16, 2025 12:03 pm

Not sure what qualifies as a "bust". I know fans want 1st round draft picks to be plug and play guys, but most after the first 15 or so picks have a high failure rate.
Particularly, It seems so difficult to draft OL, and history shows it unless he's a blue chip guy, it takes 4 or 5 years to learn how to play. In his first 6 years in the league Ifedi started in all but 2 games. The next OL pick in that draft (#17 in 2nd) was in the league 5 yrs and only started 10 games. Overall, not a good year for drafting OL. He had a lot of penalties, his aggressive attitude was not unappreciated by his coaches. Not near a PB, but serviceable as OL goes. Carpenter was kinda the same "meh" type of player, not terrible for a late 1st round pick. Lasted in the league for 10 years and started, 122 of 132 games. I don't think as a team, we've done well coaching our OL guys. Sometimes it seems we give up too early and then they go on and play OK for someone else. Then we had Tom Cable who felt you draft DL guys and flip them to OL. That generally didn't work.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby River Dog » Fri May 16, 2025 3:39 pm

TriCitySam wrote:Not sure what qualifies as a "bust". I know fans want 1st round draft picks to be plug and play guys, but most after the first 15 or so picks have a high failure rate.
Particularly, It seems so difficult to draft OL, and history shows it unless he's a blue chip guy, it takes 4 or 5 years to learn how to play. In his first 6 years in the league Ifedi started in all but 2 games. The next OL pick in that draft (#17 in 2nd) was in the league 5 yrs and only started 10 games. Overall, not a good year for drafting OL. He had a lot of penalties, his aggressive attitude was not unappreciated by his coaches. Not near a PB, but serviceable as OL goes. Carpenter was kinda the same "meh" type of player, not terrible for a late 1st round pick. Lasted in the league for 10 years and started, 122 of 132 games. I don't think as a team, we've done well coaching our OL guys. Sometimes it seems we give up too early and then they go on and play OK for someone else. Then we had Tom Cable who felt you draft DL guys and flip them to OL. That generally didn't work.


I don't know if I'd go so far as to call Carpenter a "terrible" pick, but even his college head coach was surprised that he was selected as early as he was. He was drafted as a tackle and by any definition was a huge bust at that position, reported to his first training camp out of shape, was breathing like a vacuum cleaner in the first series of his first preseason game, didn't last the full season at tackle. As far as his play at guard goes, he lost his starting job and at one point in the playoffs, wasn't suiting up even though he was perfectly healthy. He did a fair job in his 4th season, but not good enough for us to pick up his option.

As far as our guys going to another team and playing well for them, that happens to all teams.

Agreed about Cable. I have a friend who was a UFDA for the Hawks when Cable was there, and he didn't have much good to say about him, said that he played several players on opposite sides of the center from where they played in college.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby jshawaii22 » Fri May 16, 2025 3:58 pm

Only thing I remember is that the reaches were Pete, not JS... so maybe we will have different results with Zabel.
Also, I remember it was Tom Cable that came to Pete with the idea of turning DL and OLineman into 'other' position players. Some were OK, most weren't.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby River Dog » Sat May 17, 2025 5:11 am

jshawaii22 wrote:Only thing I remember is that the reaches were Pete, not JS... so maybe we will have different results with Zabel.
Also, I remember it was Tom Cable that came to Pete with the idea of turning DL and OLineman into 'other' position players. Some were OK, most weren't.


Let's hope it was Pete and/or Cable's judgement on those OL selections. I can't see how anyone could think that James Carpenter would have made even a decent OT in the NFL. It was pretty obvious in his first preseason outing that he was overrated.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby NorthHawk » Sat May 17, 2025 6:54 am

After 2 drafts it's become clear that JS held a lot of sway in who was chosen - at least on the OL. We went into this season with him stating he knows he has to fix the OL and IOL in particular and we went through FA without any moves and only drafted 1 Guard in the Draft. It's the same old story we've seen for 14 years of him ignoring the IOL and then trying to patch work it with players that other teams cast off or trying to fit Tackles that couldn't make it into the Guard spot. We also bypassed at least 2 fairly good Centers in the draft just like we have in the previous 10 after trading away Max Unger with no heir apparent in place. Meanwhile teams like the Lions grabbed a very athletic Guard and the Eagles took a Center even though they just signed their Center to an extension. They say they plan to use him at Guard, but even so if Jurgens should go down, they have a replacement right there. For us it's another year of hoping the players step up and/or that the new coaching staff can actually make something of the collection of players we have. Maybe lightning will strike this year, but after about a decade of hoping for that success I have serious doubts the IOL will be fixed.
Maybe the plan is for Milroe to succeed and then he can scramble his way to Offensive success when the middle opens up like a split plastic bag.

I really like the rest of the players JS selected. There are a lot of interesting and possible steals that were drafted by him, but the IOL wasn't fully addressed, which is what he said he was going to do prior to the draft.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby River Dog » Sun May 18, 2025 2:45 am

NorthHawk wrote:After 2 drafts it's become clear that JS held a lot of sway in who was chosen - at least on the OL. We went into this season with him stating he knows he has to fix the OL and IOL in particular and we went through FA without any moves and only drafted 1 Guard in the Draft. It's the same old story we've seen for 14 years of him ignoring the IOL and then trying to patch work it with players that other teams cast off or trying to fit Tackles that couldn't make it into the Guard spot. We also bypassed at least 2 fairly good Centers in the draft just like we have in the previous 10 after trading away Max Unger with no heir apparent in place. Meanwhile teams like the Lions grabbed a very athletic Guard and the Eagles took a Center even though they just signed their Center to an extension. They say they plan to use him at Guard, but even so if Jurgens should go down, they have a replacement right there. For us it's another year of hoping the players step up and/or that the new coaching staff can actually make something of the collection of players we have. Maybe lightning will strike this year, but after about a decade of hoping for that success I have serious doubts the IOL will be fixed.
Maybe the plan is for Milroe to succeed and then he can scramble his way to Offensive success when the middle opens up like a split plastic bag.

I really like the rest of the players JS selected. There are a lot of interesting and possible steals that were drafted by him, but the IOL wasn't fully addressed, which is what he said he was going to do prior to the draft.


Yeah, it's getting hard to keep making excuses for JS with regard to the offensive line.

I do think he made some wise offseason moves, particularly unloading Geno and Metcalf and has made what appears to be a smart gamble on Milroe. I also think he made a smart play to move up and snag a first rounder who had fallen in the form of safety Nick Emmanwori (gotta learn how to spell that last name).

We'll see how these players work out.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby NorthHawk » Sun May 18, 2025 7:25 am

I have no problems with the other moves or any of the draft picks but I can't get over not addressing the interior of the OL. 3 positions needed an upgrade and only 1 was addressed with the added hope another later round pick will work out inside and probable pickups of other teams castoffs during TC.
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History of picks

Postby TriCitySam » Sun May 18, 2025 3:58 pm

I went back and looked at the 1st and 2nd OL draft picks from 2011 to 2020, for what it's worth:

1) 108 OL players were drafted, 61 1st rounders and 47 2nd rounders. Avg of 3.4 per team
2) 35 became Pro Bowl players, 18 were top 16 draft picks. 16 earned a PB after 4th year.
3) 44% received a 2nd contract from their drafting team
4) Avg of 7 years in the league; avg of 5 with the drafting team
5) Avg of 67 starts by drafting team

In this period, SEA drafted 4 OL in the 1st or 2nd round, they averaged staying 9 years in the league, we only kept them an avg of 4.75 years, but we only picked two in the 1st - in the lower end (Carpenter 25th and Ifedi 31st). Dallas and Detroit seem to keep their guys for a 2nd contract, and when you look at a lot of the PB players (particularly beyond top 10) develop after year 4, it would appear we with weren't patient enough - or didn't coach them up as good as we could have - in the example of Carpenter, after he left he averaged starting 13 games the next 6 years.
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Re: History of picks

Postby River Dog » Mon May 19, 2025 5:28 am

TriCitySam wrote:I went back and looked at the 1st and 2nd OL draft picks from 2011 to 2020, for what it's worth:

1) 108 OL players were drafted, 61 1st rounders and 47 2nd rounders. Avg of 3.4 per team
2) 35 became Pro Bowl players, 18 were top 16 draft picks. 16 earned a PB after 4th year.
3) 44% received a 2nd contract from their drafting team
4) Avg of 7 years in the league; avg of 5 with the drafting team
5) Avg of 67 starts by drafting team

In this period, SEA drafted 4 OL in the 1st or 2nd round, they averaged staying 9 years in the league, we only kept them an avg of 4.75 years, but we only picked two in the 1st - in the lower end (Carpenter 25th and Ifedi 31st). Dallas and Detroit seem to keep their guys for a 2nd contract, and when you look at a lot of the PB players (particularly beyond top 10) develop after year 4, it would appear we with weren't patient enough - or didn't coach them up as good as we could have - in the example of Carpenter, after he left he averaged starting 13 games the next 6 years.


Nice bit of homework there, Sam.

A couple of years ago, I went through an exercise where I assigned a value to each draft choice taken by position to determine an average round each position was drafted at. The goal was to determine what our draft priorities were. Offensive line was at the bottom of the list.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby NorthHawk » Mon May 19, 2025 7:33 am

Until this year we never took an OL in the first round that wasn't drafted as a Tackle. The constant theme has been draft a Tackle and if he doesn't work out slide him to Guard.
We took Pocic, a Center in college in the 2nd and played him mostly at Guard before releasing him and we took John Moffitt and Damien Lewis in the 3rd rounds. The rest of the Guards and Centers we played with have been failed Tackles from other teams and castoffs from TC cuts of other teams or late round/UFA selections. There has never been a real focus on the IOL. Even this year Zabel played Tackle but had played Guard earlier. So it seems that's the plan with Schneider and he believes any OL can play Guard or, it seems Center. Some may work out, but the problem is it creates constant turnover inside as players wash out and the OL can never really 'Gel' as playing together for at least a season is what creates that cohesion. It's quite apparent that JS either doesn't see that or doesn't care.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby River Dog » Mon May 19, 2025 9:34 am

NorthHawk wrote:Until this year we never took an OL in the first round that wasn't drafted as a Tackle. The constant theme has been draft a Tackle and if he doesn't work out slide him to Guard.
We took Pocic, a Center in college in the 2nd and played him mostly at Guard before releasing him and we took John Moffitt and Damien Lewis in the 3rd rounds. The rest of the Guards and Centers we played with have been failed Tackles from other teams and castoffs from TC cuts of other teams or late round/UFA selections. There has never been a real focus on the IOL. Even this year Zabel played Tackle but had played Guard earlier. So it seems that's the plan with Schneider and he believes any OL can play Guard or, it seems Center. Some may work out, but the problem is it creates constant turnover inside as players wash out and the OL can never really 'Gel' as playing together for at least a season is what creates that cohesion. It's quite apparent that JS either doesn't see that or doesn't care.


Not only that, but any tackle we drafted, in addition to being able to play the tackle position, must also have been flexible enough to play a guard or center in case he didn't make it as a tackle. That requirement might have excluded some otherwise good tackle prospects. I got the impression that Pete/JS regarded the guard position as nothing more than a safety net for busted tackles like Carpenter, Britt, Ifedi, et al.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby TriCitySam » Mon May 19, 2025 1:17 pm

I know fans love to complain about Seattle's effort in drafting OL. HOWEVER, when you look at other teams, only two spent more draft capital in the 1st two rounds than Seattle - NYG and IND. They both drafted 5 OL in those 10 years (remember SEA drafted 4) - Indy got 3 to that got a 2nd contract, but none made it to a PB. NYG had none that made it to a 2nd contract, although 1 made the PB in year 4. NYG were 66-94 and INDY 83-77 in those 1- years. Dallas has been the best at drafting OL.

However, if you look at BALT - they only drafted 2, one made it to a 2nd contract; NE - they only drafted 2, and one made it to a 2nd contract. But NE was 118-42 and BALT 96-63 in those 10 years. BALT's starters are all guys they drafted, but only 1 came in the 1st two rounds in that 10 year period. They are starting all guys they drafted however in '24. PHIL is another that is starting all guys they drafted in '24.

So there are plenty of reasons OTHER than dedicating high draft choices to OL that impact OL and team performance. The OL's that do well are generally ones that have kept the same group playing together for several years. (CLE drafted 4, 2 became PB - but AFTER they left CLE). We're certainly not the worst at drafting OL. Most have the same results we do. But, we are aren't as good as Dallas, and we don't seem to keep a group together and we seem to need better scouts - and need better coaching.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby jshawaii22 » Mon May 19, 2025 4:19 pm

Zabel played more LTackle then Guard last year in college but played 4 positions across the line, which is what probably attracted JS to him. I think he is 'projected' to be a guard. He also may be our center in a couple of years. He talks, looks and dresses the part. First to sign his contract.

On the Pete vs JS scene, Pete did an interview recently after the draft, may of been only in Vegas TV but he confirmed that he left the Seahawks 'voluntarily' because it was JS's time to take over player decisions. So all these o line failure moves of the past may of been scouting and Pete,(and Cable, who Pete hired) not JS.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon May 19, 2025 4:45 pm

jshawaii22 wrote:Zabel played more LTackle then Guard last year in college but played 4 positions across the line, which is what probably attracted JS to him. I think he is 'projected' to be a guard. He also may be our center in a couple of years. He talks, looks and dresses the part. First to sign his contract.

On the Pete vs JS scene, Pete did an interview recently after the draft, may of been only in Vegas TV but he confirmed that he left the Seahawks 'voluntarily' because it was JS's time to take over player decisions. So all these o line failure moves of the past may of been scouting and Pete,(and Cable, who Pete hired) not JS.

I saw that interview, and based on it I am hopeful that we are seeing a different evaluation of O-linemen than we had been under Pete. I would also note that the linemen we drafted under Pete we nowhere on my radar at all (and I do a lot of draft studying) whereas this year I had two guards worthy of our first pick and we not only got one but the other, in a draft day interview, was mentioned by JS as having gone before our pick ("Book went what?, 10th or 12th") indicating to me that he had the same two guards as worthy. I think there is reason for optimism.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby NorthHawk » Mon May 19, 2025 6:46 pm

Maybe with a year in the nfl under his belt Haynes can be the starter. Sometimes the first year is so overwhelming to players that they don’t show how good they can be in their rookie year.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby River Dog » Tue May 20, 2025 5:50 am

jshawaii22 wrote:Zabel played more LTackle then Guard last year in college but played 4 positions across the line, which is what probably attracted JS to him. I think he is 'projected' to be a guard. He also may be our center in a couple of years. He talks, looks and dresses the part. First to sign his contract.

On the Pete vs JS scene, Pete did an interview recently after the draft, may of been only in Vegas TV but he confirmed that he left the Seahawks 'voluntarily' because it was JS's time to take over player decisions. So all these o line failure moves of the past may of been scouting and Pete,(and Cable, who Pete hired) not JS.


I didn't see the interview with Pete regarding his reasons for leaving the Hawks, but I did read it, and I don't believe it at all. It might have been put to him in such a way that he could save some face, like either accept this position change or you're fired, but I can't buy the "I left because it was John Schneider's turn" part. Think about it: If that were Pete's motivation, he could have just as easily granted JS more decision-making authority. The fact that he jumped right back in the saddle with the Raiders would seem to contradict his statement of leaving voluntarily. IMO that's Pete's ego defense mechanism at work, can't admit to himself that he was pushed out.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby NorthHawk » Tue May 20, 2025 8:02 am

It has also been said that he battled like hell to keep his position but the decision to change were made at the top.
So they created the 'Special Advisor' position to try to smooth over any fan unrest and give him a face saving ending. It's not easy to dismiss a coach who brought the team a SB, but sometimes it's the best move.
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Re: Grey Zabel

Postby NorthHawk » Tue May 20, 2025 8:13 am

So there are plenty of reasons OTHER than dedicating high draft choices to OL that impact OL and team performance. The OL's that do well are generally ones that have kept the same group playing together for several years. (CLE drafted 4, 2 became PB - but AFTER they left CLE). We're certainly not the worst at drafting OL. Most have the same results we do. But, we are aren't as good as Dallas, and we don't seem to keep a group together and we seem to need better scouts - and need better coaching


Most teams with good OL's look at them as a unit. It hasn't been that way here since JS/PC became the brains of the team. Trading away a Pro Bowl Center and Captain of the Offense and never replacing him is the most glaring example and it has continued the last 2 drafts with JS alone. The IOL has been a weak point for at least 10 years and little has been done to fix it except for a few bones thrown their way. But the worst part is the constant changeover of players along the IOL year after year. That is mainly from not drafting top IOL players and constantly picking up veterans at either the end of FA or after TC cuts. Players that only have maybe 1 good year left if that. A cohesive unit can't be built by piecemealing an IOL year after year. Good teams have strength up the middle (true in most team sports) and we won't be a good Offense until we get that settled. I'm not convinced JS is the guy to do that.
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Re: History of picks

Postby NorthHawk » Wed May 21, 2025 7:40 am

TriCitySam wrote:I went back and looked at the 1st and 2nd OL draft picks from 2011 to 2020, for what it's worth:

1) 108 OL players were drafted, 61 1st rounders and 47 2nd rounders. Avg of 3.4 per team
2) 35 became Pro Bowl players, 18 were top 16 draft picks. 16 earned a PB after 4th year.
3) 44% received a 2nd contract from their drafting team
4) Avg of 7 years in the league; avg of 5 with the drafting team
5) Avg of 67 starts by drafting team

In this period, SEA drafted 4 OL in the 1st or 2nd round, they averaged staying 9 years in the league, we only kept them an avg of 4.75 years, but we only picked two in the 1st - in the lower end (Carpenter 25th and Ifedi 31st). Dallas and Detroit seem to keep their guys for a 2nd contract, and when you look at a lot of the PB players (particularly beyond top 10) develop after year 4, it would appear we with weren't patient enough - or didn't coach them up as good as we could have - in the example of Carpenter, after he left he averaged starting 13 games the next 6 years.


Here are our draft picks of players that ended up playing on the Interior Offensive Line. This covers 14 Drafts. Grey Zabel was drafted this year and like you said played some Guard but he made his name as a Tackle in College. There were some other Tackles selected this year as well but it remains to be seen if they will be moved inside or can make the adjustment if they are.


2011 James Carpenter (OT moved to G) R1
2011 John Moffitt G R3

2012 J.R. Sweezy (DT conversion) R7

2013 Ryan Seymour G R7

2014 Justin Britt (OT conversion) R2
2014 Garrett Scott (medical issue never played) R6

2015 Terry Pool G R4
2015 Mark Glowinski G R4

2016 Germain Ifedi (OT Conversion) R1
2016 Rees Odhiambo R3
2016 Joey Hunt C R6

2017 Ethan Pocic C R2 (only played a few games at C - moved to G then was released now starting C in Cleveland)

2018 None

2019 Phil Haynes R4

2020 Damien Lewis R3

2021 None

2022 None

2023 Anthony Bradford R4
2023 Olusegun Oluwatimi C R5

2024 Cristian Haynes G R3
2024 Sataoa Laumea G R6
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