Giants are interested in trading for Kam Chancellor

[burrrton]

His "fine" will be somewhere around $270,000 per game. I believe that's part of the CBA so it's not subject to debate.
The fines I was referring to are those optional ones of $30,000 per day of TC.

I thought they were both subject to team discretion. Maybe that's incorrect...

[RiverDog]

His "fine" will be somewhere around $270,000 per game. I believe that's part of the CBA so it's not subject to debate.
The fines I was referring to are those optional ones of $30,000 per day of TC.

That's sort of what I heard. If he doesn't report by tomorrow, he loses a game check, and there's nothing he or the Hawks can do about it.

[Seahawks4Ever]

I keep reading "kam is a good guy, he wouldn't his team a shot at another SB"

I believe that we think we "know" him, I know I thought I did. But, I believe now that I had no idea what is in his head or his heart.

When I read stuff like, "he saw Red Bryant and Chris Clemons get to the final year of their contracts only to see them cut and he says he doesn't want that to happen to himself. REALLY??? Has Kam no idea of his value to the team as opposed to those two at that point in their careers as Seahawks??? I mean, both had slipped and we had their replacements ready to step in. There is NODOY even on the horizon who could step in in a couple of years and fill Kam's shoes. That whole "security" angle was and is a red herring if you ask me.

Someone mention that this deal with Kam reminds him of the Hutch fiasco. Now, Tim Ruskell screwed up by not using the FT but No one, not Ruskell, not Holmgren, and certainly not any of us understood how much Hutch wanted to return to the mid-west where he went to college and grew up. Hutch wanted out of here and it was his agent that came up with the poison pill idea.

Now, Kam has a RING so he has fulfilled what many a player in the HoF never even had a chance at one. He might be leveraging his way out of town, and he might even have a few specific places he would like to go. In this day of the NFL where certain teams (we all know who) seem to flout the rules and get away with it there might be some TAMPERING going on but I am sure the team and/or teams involved are probably covering their tracks very well.

It is one thing to poach our assistants, that is expected. It is expected that other teams are going to raid our roster of players we cannot afford to keep. But, to lose a player we may be FORCED to trade, and possibly trade to a team that we would NOT want to trade him to, and, more than likely not even close to his value to us. That would SUCK BIG TIME.

OK, let me say again, Kam we love you, please return with the knowledge that the F/O WILL have the CAP capacity to redo your contract. Kam, you and the rest of the LOB and the rest of the Seahawks have a real chance of making NFL HISTORY!

People could be talking about you and the rest of the team for years and years, HOW MUCH IS THAT WORTH TO YOU??????

[NorthHawk]

It's about money and respect.
For many players money = respect and they only have a short time to make big money.
Kam, it seems, feels disrespected because he's not making as much as ET or Sherm or some other lesser Safety playing in the NFL.
And he's not alone, I'm sure. It's the way things are in the NFL.

[RiverDog]

I keep reading "kam is a good guy, he wouldn't his team a shot at another SB"

I believe that we think we "know" him, I know I thought I did. But, I believe now that I had no idea what is in his head or his heart.

When I read stuff like, "he saw Red Bryant and Chris Clemons get to the final year of their contracts only to see them cut and he says he doesn't want that to happen to himself. REALLY??? Has Kam no idea of his value to the team as opposed to those two at that point in their careers as Seahawks??? I mean, both had slipped and we had their replacements ready to step in. There is NODOY even on the horizon who could step in in a couple of years and fill Kam's shoes. That whole "security" angle was and is a red herring if you ask me.

Someone mention that this deal with Kam reminds him of the Hutch fiasco. Now, Tim Ruskell screwed up by not using the FT but No one, not Ruskell, not Holmgren, and certainly not any of us understood how much Hutch wanted to return to the mid-west where he went to college and grew up. Hutch wanted out of here and it was his agent that came up with the poison pill idea.

Now, Kam has a RING so he has fulfilled what many a player in the HoF never even had a chance at one. He might be leveraging his way out of town, and he might even have a few specific places he would like to go. In this day of the NFL where certain teams (we all know who) seem to flout the rules and get away with it there might be some TAMPERING going on but I am sure the team and/or teams involved are probably covering their tracks very well.

It is one thing to poach our assistants, that is expected. It is expected that other teams are going to raid our roster of players we cannot afford to keep. But, to lose a player we may be FORCED to trade, and possibly trade to a team that we would NOT want to trade him to, and, more than likely not even close to his value to us. That would SUCK BIG TIME.

OK, let me say again, Kam we love you, please return with the knowledge that the F/O WILL have the CAP capacity to redo your contract. Kam, you and the rest of the LOB and the rest of the Seahawks have a real chance of making NFL HISTORY!

People could be talking about you and the rest of the team for years and years, HOW MUCH IS THAT WORTH TO YOU??????

Kam's coming off a knee surgery. Who knows how that has affected his confidence in his ability to play. IMO it is quite possible that the knee surgery and/or the associated recovery could be factoring into his decision to hold out. I don't necessarily believe it, but it would explain a lot of things.

During his holdout, at least the first several days, Kam stayed in communication with his teammates, even offered advice to some of them. That doesn't fit the profile of a person wanting out of town.

Steve Hutchinson was born and raised in Florida, graduated from high school in Coral Springs, FL. Minneapolis is a bit of a hike from Ann Harbor, MI, so I wouldn't be so certain that going home to his roots was a consideration when he bolted for the Vikings. I never heard anything out of Hutch about getting closer to home as a reason for his signing with Minnesota. IMO the reason Hutch left was for money, period. He didn't necessarily want out of here, to the contrary, all the signals he was sending indicated that his first preference was to stay with the Hawks. What he did was that he snookered Ruskell into thinking that all he wanted to do was to get a market based contract, so Ruskell thought he could save a few bucks by slapping the FT on him, which would allow Hutchinson to test the market like he wanted to and get an offer and give the Hawks a chance to match it. I'm almost certain that the poison pill was his agent's idea. The case ended up going to arbitration. I don't see many parallels between Hutch's situation and Kam's.

I'm not defending Kam so much as I am trying to figure out what's motivating him. Regardless of his motivation, I don't like how he's handling this situation.

[kalibane]

Kam's position makes no sense period. Clemons and Red were released primarily because they were no longer as effective in their roles as other guys on the team. Having one year left on the deal was irrelevant. Kam has three years left on his four year deal. No one is going to rip up a deal with that much time left on it and there is no money to rip up that deal (which is reportedly is what he wants, not modifying his existing contract the way Marshawn did). Furthermore there is no cap room to do it.

I don't know what he's thinking but I'm starting to question his intelligence based purely on timing. His agent should be able to run the numbers and tell him that it makes no sense to pull this move until next year.

I don't even see why you'd bring up Hutch. He forced his way out because he felt disrespected, pure and simple. There was no geographical issue. Minnesota just happened to be the team that was willing to pony up the then unheard of money for an Offensive Guard.

[Hawk Sista]

The similarity to Kam and Hutch, IMHO, comes only in the frustration of not being able to get OUR guy into camp and playing during the regular season. I think it is pretty clear to all involved that we are BETTER with Kam than without. It is really starting to feel like Kam has dug himself a hole that he is too stubborn to retreat from and that he is willing to forgo the $267,000/week (+/- whatever penalties the Hawks choose to levy on him). There is no winning position on this....for anyone.

If the Seahawk's Brass gives into Kam's demands, they would have to contend with a line out the door next year and for the years to come. They simply cannot do much with Kam without setting a dangerous precedent and jeopardizing the future of this team and how we build and develop. PC, JS, Richard (the DC) and the players all know we are better off with him than without him...but at what cost? I'm against a mortgage against our future. Though I kinda feel a little tempted to do something to bring him in, I know the right thing to do is to hold the line. Can't the players understand the salary CAP. We have more players that make big money than most teams do. This is a good problem to have as it means we have more big talent. BUT, there just is not a legal way to pay everyone the top salary at their position. At some point, it is just plain selfishness.
His teammates are less w/o him than they would be with him, plain and simple. It will put more pressure on ET (coming back from injury) Sherm, and whoever starts opposite Sherm at the other corner spot.... the whole D, really. And since their is symbiosis between all 3 phases of the game and Kam is/was such a leader - ALL of his teammates suffer. So much for Love Our Brothers (LOB).
The 12s who pay a FREAKIN great deal of $$$ to support the Hawks will have a less than ideal product on the field. It'll be about $8,000 bucks that 4 of us will drop on our annual sojourn to see a Hawk's game. We fly to Seattle, buy good tickets, rent a car (or 2), stay in a nice hotel for two nights, and drop money at the pro-shop, concession, other local bars, restaurants, commerce. Not to mention the fact that fandom, while we don't know what it feels like to be the player, is what makes all of this s*** possible. Without the crazy ass lot of us, there is no product to sell.

I'm clearly not a professional athlete so I do not understand the ins and outs of this hold-out. I'm just a VERY disappointed fan who thinks her team will be less good without a player who should be on the field. However, he is choosing to hold his employer (with whom he signed a lucrative deal with three damned years left on it), the 12s, his teammates, and even himself hostage for no good damned reason! C'mon, MAN! I Love Kam as a player and I don't know him as a person. If he seriously is willing (that is an IF, I know) to hold out the year, we should trade him to the highest bidder and get something for him.

Signed, Sleepless in Seattle

Edit..........I'd like to add that I think the new CBA sucks, unless you are an owner. NFL players make less than counterparts in other sports YET their product brings in more money than the other major US sports combined. I really dislike GODell and his billionaire buddies (save Paul Allen, of course). Like my comment about the fans creating the market for the billionaires to make money, the players (high risk to their bodies and noggins with a very short earing window) should be treated more fairly. DeMaurice whats-his-face should be FIRED and the players should get more organized to build a more equitable CBA. That said, under the existing CBA - Kam signed a deal that was considered very lucrative at the time. There are three years left on that deal and while there is an argument to be had, it is not with the team that found him, developed him and placed other pro-bowlers around him.....nor is it with the loyal 12s who make playing at home a smidge easier than anywhere else in the league. It makes me sick to think of Kam going to Jacksonville, for example, and playing out his days in front of 2/3rds of a full crows with 1/2 the heart. GET HOME, KAM

[Zorn76]

It is what it is.

We move forward without Kam for now.

What's his over/under for how many games missed this season?

lol, Vegas has odds for everything else, might as well add "absurd futures" to the card.

[obiken]

Its one of the few times that I was right and River was wrong! I have said 6 games, from the very beginning. Don't worry Riv, its a fleeting moment!

[c_hawkbob]

It is what it is.

We move forward without Kam for now.

What's his over/under for how many games missed this season?

lol, Vegas has odds for everything else, might as well add "absurd futures" to the card.

Until tomorrow at whatever time the deadline is for him to get credit for week 1 I'm still at zero.

[Agent 86]

Until tomorrow at whatever time the deadline is for him to get credit for week 1 I'm still at zero.

I am also hoping for a situation similar to RW3's contract signing, it was on the morning of first day of training camp.

I am a little less optimistic on this one, I think it might be a game or two before we see Kam back on the field, which is no good for anyone.

[burrrton]

I am a little less optimistic on this one, I think it might be a game or two before we see Kam back on the field, which is no good for anyone.

You may be right of course, but I have trouble accepting that as likely because I can't see Kam giving up half a million bucks just to come back with no change.

He has to know the team won't do anything with his contract, they can't do anything with his contract, and he has no moral high ground from which to demand it anyway.

[Seahawks4Ever]

RD; first of all, Ruskell didn't put the FT (franchise tag) on Hutch he put the TT (transitional tag) on him. I went to great lengths to say that the Hutch analogy was not a direct one.

Secondly; I also said that the Kam situation "feels" like the Hutch situation. It was an OPINION, it was NOT a statement of FACT. If I had said something like "Kam is trying to leverage his way out of town and this is why yada, yada, yada. I could see why you would feel the need to "prove me wrong".

Now, I remember Hutch mentioning how much he loved the mid-west when he was in college because he loved to hunt and fish and I am sorry you missed that retort of his. The F/O of the Vikings were the ones who pointed out that it was Hutch's agent that came up with the poison pill idea because Hutch did NOT want to play for Seattle anymore.

It wasn't that Hutch felt "disrespected" it was the fact that he wanted to be paid more than Walter Jones and Ruskell only wanted to Hutch OG money, top OG money for sure but not OT money. That was why Holmgren was upset that Ruskell had not used the Franchise Tag instead of the Transitional Tag, Mike knew what Hutch wanted and with the FT we would have had Hutch at least another season and that much more time to make him happy and keep him here.

Anyway, back to Kam Chancellor, The man is not dumb and neither is his agent. They both know Seattle doesn't have the space under the Salary Cap to totally renegotiate Kam a new contract for a lot more money.

SO, as Kam is about to start losing a whole lot more money and if he sits out the entire season he ends up right back at square one after SB 50. SO, what is Kam and his agent up to?? It seems to me that for some reason kam wants OUT of SEATTLE. That is what I speculated on, I also speculated that there just may be some tampering going on. I will wonder even more depending on who Chancellor would get traded to. I remember when Ken Griffey Jr. leveraged his was way not only out of Seattle but to the Reds.

[Hawk Sista]

"It wasn't that Hutch felt "disrespected" it was the fact that he wanted to be paid more than Walter Jones and Ruskell only wanted to Hutch OG money, top OG money for sure but not OT money. That was why Holmgren was upset that Ruskell had not used the Franchise Tag instead of the Transitional Tag, Mike knew what Hutch wanted and with the FT we would have had Hutch at least another season and that much more time to make him happy and keep him here."

TOATALLY TRUE!^^^^ That's why we all said "huck futch" for years. While the front office opened the door, 'Twas hutch himself who walked right out that door... Which, in spite of us wishing otherwise, was the case or that poison pill BS doesn't get done.

"Anyway, back to Kam Chancellor, The man is not dumb and neither is his agent. They both know Seattle doesn't have the space under the Salary Cap to totally renegotiate Kam a new contract for a lot more money. SO, as Kam is about to start losing a whole lot more money and if he sits out the entire season he ends up right back at square one after SB 50. SO, what is Kam and his agent up to??"

That's a totally fair question. While I am not convinced Kam wants out, I have no idea what the real reason is. I'd like to think it is his Love of Brother (LOB), but I cannot help but wonder. Is he ill? Does he need cash? Is he injured? Does he think he can't produce? Does he need to be near an ailing family member, out of dough, mad at Pete, know something about the health of ET or Sherm????? I have zero idea. ZERO! But this behavior seems very un-Kam like and one simply has to question what's up. I'd love nothing more than to be wrong as hell. NOTHING! But it's clearly not business as usual.

[Vegaseahawk]

I think that Kams return will depend on the Seahawks W L record after 3 weeks. If Seattle is 0-3 or 1-2, mgt may fold. Conversely, if the record is a winning one, the pressure will be more on Kam.
I love the guy, but man, the timing of this thing stinks for Kam. Having said that, if he has put the same amount of commitment into this holdout that he puts into his game, we may not see him on the field anytime soon.
The call of what the Seahawks have repeated as their mantra, "I'm In!", has got to be affecting the guy personally. He is the defensive captain, & thats an emotional bond. Earl told him to "
Come home", that's what family is. (keep in mind that there are men on the D who would step into a role like that comfortably).
I've been reading articles questioning his health, & the possibility that last seasons injury has him looking at his football mortality, can't really blame him there. We only get so many trips around the sun...This whole thing could be about his health, & the reputation he has as the hardest hitting safety in the league. Thats a tall order to live up to every week.
For my own selfish reasons I want him out there on the field. But I can't really blame him for wanting a contract with more guaranteed money. Bottom line in my opinion though, is Kam Chancellor timed the holdout wrong. He should've waited a year or 2...& that's his own, & to a lesser degree, his agent's, fault. When you go up against Paul Allen, you'd better have your ducks in a row.

[Vegaseahawk]

It is what it is.

We move forward without Kam for now.

What's his over/under for how many games missed this season?

lol, Vegas has odds for everything else, might as well add "absurd futures" to the card.

I put the line at 3.5

While I couldn't find a line on Kam holding out, I did find this.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/the-wackiest-and-wildest-super-bowl-prop-bets-140718062.html

[obiken]

The problem is the agent advising Kam thinks the Lynch redo was a precedent it wasn't. I would be shocked if this wasn't true.

[Vegaseahawk]

This is a great read. This guy nailed it.

http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/kam-chancellors-holdout-is-a-gamble-and-hes-got-to-figure-out-an-exit-strategy/

[Hawktawk]

"It wasn't that Hutch felt "disrespected" it was the fact that he wanted to be paid more than Walter Jones and Ruskell only wanted to Hutch OG money, top OG money for sure but not OT money. That was why Holmgren was upset that Ruskell had not used the Franchise Tag instead of the Transitional Tag, Mike knew what Hutch wanted and with the FT we would have had Hutch at least another season and that much more time to make him happy and keep him here."

TOATALLY TRUE!^^^^ That's why we all said "huck futch" for years. While the front office opened the door, 'Twas hutch himself who walked right out that door... Which, in spite of us wishing otherwise, was the case or that poison pill BS doesn't get done.

"Anyway, back to Kam Chancellor, The man is not dumb and neither is his agent. They both know Seattle doesn't have the space under the Salary Cap to totally renegotiate Kam a new contract for a lot more money. SO, as Kam is about to start losing a whole lot more money and if he sits out the entire season he ends up right back at square one after SB 50. SO, what is Kam and his agent up to??"

That's a totally fair question. While I am not convinced Kam wants out, I have no idea what the real reason is. I'd like to think it is his Love of Brother (LOB), but I cannot help but wonder. Is he ill? Does he need cash? Is he injured? Does he think he can't produce? Does he need to be near an ailing family member, out of dough, mad at Pete, know something about the health of ET or Sherm????? I have zero idea. ZERO! But this behavior seems very un-Kam like and one simply has to question what's up. I'd love nothing more than to be wrong as hell. NOTHING! But it's clearly not business as usual.

Thats very profound sis, very true. Its Un-Cam like. Ive wondered if he feels unhealthy and wants more security as well. But that was well said.

[Futureite]

Here is one angle I have not read here yet: A number of you are emphatically posting that this makes no sense financially, but what if Kam believes sitting out a yr will extend his career? And by "extend", I am not referring to absolute numbers, but rather total number of productive yrs played. Which in turn, leads to more money.

As opposed to yrs past, today's players are now armed with better nutrition, science, training and medical advice. For the first time that I can remember, players are literally walking away from bigtime contracts or even "taking a yr off" as our the 49ers Anthony Davis has done. JPP recently retired and then apparently "unretired". Today's players do not appear to be averse to spending extra time to heal up and destress, even at the expense of short term loss.

Also, today's players are far more cognizant of the business side of football. They know their value. And more tp the point, they have more info available to them to learn their owner's value. These players know their own usefull life, they've learned about life after football, and they know a waiting game often pays bigger dividends in the long run.

In short, in the end this could be a GREAT decision for Kam the businessman and Kam the individual. The losers in this is obviously the fans that love to watch him. I do not blame the 12s for being upset.

[jshawaii22]

If he wanted to 'take the year off' ... He would of just come out and said, "Coach, I need a year off" -- did that happen? Do you really think he would of allowed all this hatred and BS to be floated on the internet, ESPN, NFL.com, etc. if all he really wanted to do is 'take a year off'?

[kalibane]

Secondly; I also said that the Kam situation "feels" like the Hutch situation. It was an OPINION, it was NOT a statement of FACT. If I had said something like "Kam is trying to leverage his way out of town and this is why yada, yada, yada. I could see why you would feel the need to "prove me wrong".

It wasn't that Hutch felt "disrespected" it was the fact that he wanted to be paid more than Walter Jones and Ruskell only wanted to Hutch OG money, top OG money for sure but not OT money. That was why Holmgren was upset that Ruskell had not used the Franchise Tag instead of the Transitional Tag, Mike knew what Hutch wanted and with the FT we would have had Hutch at least another season and that much more time to make him happy and keep him here.

I swear every time this topic comes up people just keep adding more layers of lies on top of the false narrative. This is FLAT OUT UNTRUE.

Hutch ultimately behaved like an asshole but Hutch's agenda was not to force his way out of town until that offseason. And you people need to get that crap through your head. This is a smaller example of what's wrong in this country in general. People have need to paint one side as evil incarnate and place all the blame on them.

What happened with Hutch was the culmination of how Ruskell handled contract extensions wrong yet you stubborn people continue to try and make it all about Hutch.

He and his agent had tried both at the end of 2003/2004 and at the end of 2004/2005 to work with the front office on an extension. But because Ruskell procrastinated and had no foresight they kept having to tell Hutch to come back later because other players looming free agency effectively put a gun to Ruskell's head.

In the 2004 offseason somehow Ruskell allowed Hass' to play out his contract without an extension (who does that with a QB?). So they had to use their time and energy getting Hass signed before FA started and then had to tag Alexander on top of that. So when Hutch came to them they told him "come back later we'll take care of you". Then in the 2005 season Hutch came to them but because they promised Alexander they wouldn't tag him again they had to spend that offseason making sure they got Alexander signed. And so they told Hutch again "come back later".

Then when they got Alexander done, they had to sign outside free agents and draft picks so when they finally started talking to about the extension with Hutch in the middle of training camp, they saw he wanted to set a new market for OG (NOT MORE THAN JONES) and with the upcoming season approaching Ruskell once again said screw it and kicked the can down the road again because talks would have extended into the season and Ruskell has a rule against negotiating during the season. This put Hutch in the EXACT position he wanted to avoid. And that's was what pissed him off.

So when the 2006 offseason rolled around Hutch decided he wanted out at any cost and thus the poison pill clause about being the highest paid lineman on the team (which I can only assume is where you got the ridiculous idea that Hutch wanted to be paid more than Jones). It was never about Jones or his salary it was about creating a contract that was affordable for the Vikings but making sure the Seahawks couldn't match.

So yes Hutch threw a tantrum and forced his way out of town but it was not about Geography and it wasn't about being paid more than Jones. It was about the fact that he spent 2 years trying to get an extension because he wanted the security of not having to hit the FA market and he felt like the front office disrespected him by continuing to back burner his contract talks.

You can Huck Futch all you want but this was also largely about a completely tone deaf front office that didn't know how to manage player negotiations which led to a break down in front office/player relationships. I now see how so much nonsense winds up in "History" books.

[burrrton]

Kal, you got a little worked up there over what sounds like a small disagreement.

So yes Hutch threw a tantrum and forced his way out of town but it was not about Geography and it wasn't about being paid more than Jones.

Exactly. All true.

You're right about Hutch not asking for more than Walt (that's how the PP worked, after all), but you essentially agreed with the rest but just characterized Hutch's butthurt as more warranted than others.

Yes, Ruskell could have handled the situation differently by blowing up the OG scale himself, and in hindsight it's obvious Ruskell was a serial mishandler, but his refusal to do so was not SOOOOOOOOO egregious at the time. Hutch was a stud, but $7M/year (the contract he got from the Vikes) made him the highest paid guard in history and among the highest paid linemen in the league period- yes, that can fairly be called "tackle money".

Reasonable people can disagree how warranted his tantrum was, but in the end he felt 'insulted' and simply no longer wanted to remain a Seahawk.

Not sure what you can find so outrageously misleading in that.

It was about the fact that he spent 2 years trying to get an extension because he wanted the security of not having to hit the FA market and he felt like the front office disrespected him by continuing to back burner his contract talks.

Small correction- he spent 2 years trying to get an extension that would pay him exorbitantly for his position, and that without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, looked pretty questionable.

The fact that he felt "disrespected" because TR wouldn't tie up that kind of money for an OG is kinda what the whole criticism of Hutch is about.

[Futureite]

If he wanted to 'take the year off' ... He would of just come out and said, "Coach, I need a year off" -- did that happen? Do you really think he would of allowed all this hatred and BS to be floated on the internet, ESPN, NFL.com, etc. if all he really wanted to do is 'take a year off'?

I am not saying he wants to sit. What I am saying is players are not as averse to sitting as they use to be, for a number of reasons. Health is just one factor that plays into it.

[Hawk Sista]

Kal- if your rant includes me in "you people" (basically) and your need to blame someone other than you is what's wrong w/ America, I ask that you reread my comments. I agreed with the post that essentially states that Hutch wanted out,for whatever reason, which pretty much dissolved the relationship between Hutch and fans, fans and leadership (including M holmgren), and the end of Ruskell and Holmgren. It was a bad time in our history and many were frustrated (maybe at the wrong party) because a good thing was coming to what felt like an unnecessary end.

And that's how I feel with Kam (which is the only similarity between the two situations). It feels like it could be the end of Kam - at least for the season, which hurts our shot at getting back to the big show. So, like I was frustrated w/ Hutch and Ruskell then, I'm frustrated w/ Kam and his agent now.

Nothing I said was a lie.... I do think people misread the tea leaves all the time? What happened between Tate and Wilson? Harvin and Baldwin, Beast and Wilson..... It's all guesswork pieced together by a story here, a quote there etc.... None of us really know what's what.... And team leadership wants it that way. That's why we're relegated to chopping it up in here w/ our old friends. I don't believe guessing at that stuff is what's wrong with Amerka - & I don't think people are out n out lying. It's a 10 year old situation that nobody completely understood then. R E l a X

[NorthHawk]

You are right, futureite. Players are much more in control of their lives than they used to be and are more in tune with the limits to their careers and the life quality/money balance after football. There are always a few that will spend it faster than it comes in and expect it to last forever, but more and more, players are taking responsibility for their own future.

I don't pretend to know Kam's point of view, but this attitude could be a consideration in his holdout.

[kalibane]

Yeah I got a little worked up probably. I just get frustrated at this topic because as bad as Hutch reacted to the whole thing people just make up ridiculous stories about stuff that never happened, such as wanting to be paid more than Walt and that it was always his plan to leave.

Right or wrong the reason he wanted to leave was purely because he didn't feel like the franchise made a good faith effort to take care of him even though he was a consensus All-Pro.

It's not like they started negotiations, found themselves at an impasse and they said they'd revisit. What pissed him off so much was they never even started formal negotiations and kept putting him off. He'd come to them saying he wanted to talk about a new deal and they basically just said "now's not a good time". Then when they finally decided to sit down with him there really wasn't enough time to work out a deal before the season started/Ruskell's deadline. And of course that led to Hutch playing through the season in the exact circumstances he wanted to avoid.

You can blame him for everything that happened after the end of the season because I don't think it mattered how much money they offered, but up to that point all the decisions that prevented/or impeded negotiations were made by Ruskell stalling and/or being preoccupied with other players (most of whom should have been taken care of already). Besides Ruskell practically broke his leg tripping over himself to match the Viking's offer sheet so clearly deep down he believed Hutch was worth the asking price.

The whole problem and my biggest problem of that era was Ruskell always negotiating with a gun to his head in small restrictive windows of time. For instance he never would have gotten Wilson signed because of the length of the negotiation combined with the fact that his general mismanagement wouldn't have allowed for a negotiation window that long. Wilson would have ended up on the franchise tag next year no question.

Mainly I just get really tired of people acting like Hutch was lurking in back plotting all that time to bolt. You have to accept your part in things and the Front Office had a huge part in that episode.

The truth of the matter is Hutch actually behaved more professionally than Kam is behaving at the same respective time in the process.

Sis... I quoted who I was replying to.

[burrrton]

Mainly I just get really tired of people acting like Hutch was lurking in back plotting all that time to bolt. You have to accept your part in things and the Front Office had a huge part in that episode.

Fair.

I might argue that Hutch wasn't treated all that much differently than anyone else (poorly or not), and about as you'd expect an OG to be treated (lower priority than other positions), so all the "insult" was more of Hutch's creation, making me less charitable toward him, but I don't think what you said there is unreasonable.

[Hawk Sista]

I hear you, Kal. & as is pointed out in my comments about the CBA, I really do think players get the short end of the stick much more often than fans admit. Because really.....who here makes $267,000 a week? We simply cannot relate to that kind of money. So if he can hold out and lose a million bucks and counting, why not just come to camp? We all want our heroes to be heroes. To make the game saving vicious tackle and to take a home town discount. I was upset at Hutch for sure - but if I'm honest, I was more disappointed at the situation. It is kinda human nature to hang a situation on a single person (or a select few) rather than to unpeel all of the layers of the onion to get at the heart of what truly went wrong. Quite often when the unpeeling starts, there are plenty more people had a role in the degradation of any one situation than we can fathom. So it is just easier to say eff Ruskell and huck Futch. Now let's move on.

As for Kam, it really is a tough one. The man had to have surgery after the super bowl season to deal with internal bleeding issue that was the result of his viscous hits that he delivers. The league and this team profit enormously from him and his sacrifice. At the end of the day, though...knowing the rules (as jacked as they are) he signed a deal and he is NOT here. He is letting his employers, his teammates, his fans, and himself down, IMHO as there is no winning in this. As the days role on, my concern about the impact his actions will have on this and future teams.

Come home Kam
We love you
It is not too late
tomorrow just may be
Come home Kam

[Hawk Sista]

PS - Kam DID NOT HAVE SURGERY THIS OFF-SEASON. Several have said in several threads that Kam had knee surgery. This is actually the first off-season in several years that he has NOT had surgery of any kind.

[kalibane]

I have no doubt that this is a combination of Kam feeling his mortality in combination with being low man on the Extension totem pole. I don't blame him for wanting a new contract or even holding out (even though it almost never works).

At the very least from what I've read, he's still engaged with the team, watching film and helping Shead and Bailey to get prepared for their bigger role. I'm just disappointed that he can't see the obvious issue with making those demands THIS year. There is just no way it's going to happen. I'm wondering how much pride is factoring in at this point because it's obvious this is going nowhere for him.

[burrrton]

I have no doubt that this is a combination of Kam feeling his mortality in combination with being low man on the Extension totem pole.

Bizarre, though, is that he was *first* one given an extension. He "got his" in 2013, now wants it redone a year into that contract, in a year when the team simply can't do it.

Repeat yet again: makes absolutely no sense. Agree it has to be a pride thing- he's boxed himself into a corner.

It's like he's content to hurt the team because he's mad he didn't negotiate better. Pisses me off.

[THX-1138]

Okey Dokey, I haven't been around for a while and since the season starts Sunday I thought I would chime in on this topic. As usual I expect to be corrected on my wrong thinking notions, but it's just my opinion after all.

I didn't read every comment, but I know a lot has been discussed about Hutch. All I can say about that was that Hutch was a jerk. On to Kam....
Everyone here has heard all the talk about "3 years left on his contract" or "There are no guarantees that he won't get cut if he get's hurt". All true. I own my own business so I can appreciate that if I get hurt and miss work I have to rely on AFLAC. Maybe the NFL PA ought to look into that the next time the CBA comes up. Outside of that I got nothing other than maybe you should have played baseball. I am a Seahawks fan. I was before Kam and I will be after Kam. He has every right to sit out if he thinks it will get him more. I can't for the life of me see how. IF I were in the FO I would be content to let him rot in his holdout because there is no good reason to cave to his demands. And how would you ever trade him and expect to get a team to even remotely give you compensatory value? He plays like a #1 pick and you'll never get one in return. If you believe in next man up as an organization then you believe in next man up. I am totally OK with Kam never playing another down since eventually he will never play another down. I love watching Kam play his position. A lot. And as a fan I would welcome him back with open arms. But as a fan I care about as much for his financial situation as he cares about mine. My perspective is that his holdout hurts the team that I am a fan of. Caving to him would hurt the team that I am a fan of. I root for the players as long as they wear a Hawks uniform (or if they were so damn awesome that I would root for them on an opponent's team).

I worry that if this goes on for 4 games or so and the Hawks are .500 or worse the FO might cave. I say stay the course. This ship is too sound to not right itself over the holdout of a SS.

[burrrton]

I was just going to leave this alone, but since THX broached it, I think I'll say something about it after all:

Regarding "short earning windows": Yes, the NFL is a physically demanding job with an inherent risk of injury, and yes, they can't do it for many years, but in those few years, the average player will *still* earn more than most Americans will see in a lifetime of 40 hour weeks!

Just because they can't continue to make $770K/year (NFL median salary last I checked) until they're Medicare-eligible doesn't make them pity cases.

Like THX said, if they don't like it and really think it's unfair and making victims out of them, they can play baseball or get an actual job like the rest of the country has to do (which, it's worth remembering, they're able to do post-NFL anyway).

I have no problem if the NFLPA negotiates a more player-friendly CBA next time- God knows the NFL can afford it- but I'm not sure where this attitude comes from that the NFL is a player's last chance to earn money. It's not, and they're not owed that outrageous salary into perpetuity.

[kalibane]

I don't think anyone is feeling sorry for them. Rather, they just understand their position especially in the context of comparing them to how other professional athletes are paid and how much revenue other professional sports league make. And so in recognizing their situation feel no need to demonize them when they complain about pay.

[Agent 86]

Interview with Pete coming up on Sirius with Jim and Pat on Moving the Chains in about 2 minutes......they alluded to Pete already making a statement that Kam is out for week #1 as he has not reported.

[burrrton]

Well, I don't think anyone deserves 'demonization' for doing what they can to maximize their earnings. It's just that impulse to point out things like 'short earning windows' aggravates me because it's really irrelevant.

So what if they only have a few years to squeeze my team for as much as they possibly can? I'm supposed to empathize with them because of that? I don't get it.

[Hawk Sista]

If you are referencing me and my comments Burrrton, I'm not sure that I said that this is a players last chance to earn money in their lifetime. If I did, that certainly was not my intention.

My overarching point is really very simple. It is that there are a set of rules and regulations by which teams sign players, and that within the confines of those rules, Kam was offered a lucrative deal. As the first of the LOB to be offered such a deal, he happily took it and both sides were happy. He signed it willingly and appreciated the generosity of the team....until he changed his mind with 3 long years remaining on that deal. He has an obligation to uphold that contract, IMHO. There is not a person in the USA that wants less money or doesn't want a raise. And as his brothers were "getting theirs" and the market was shifting, Kam started to feel undervalued (or something else is going on????). While I can see his point to some extent, that is just too bad as if the Hawks extend everyone who wants a raise, then EVERYONE would be in line with their hand out.

In addition to my points re: Kam - I also (separate and apart from what I believe Kam should do now) think that the existing CBA is billionaire friendly. Without guys like Kam, the NFL does not exist as we know it. And...guys like Kam reduce the quality (and perhaps quantity) of their remaining days on earth to make money and to entertain the likes of us. Yes, yes, yes, and yes.......... it is the player's choice to play. Just ask the 49ers; some opt for retirement as their really is no good substitute for having one's physical and mental health. Players are grown men who have decided to play a violent game, and as such, they have to accept that there are consequences to their choices. Still, their is no product without them and their skill-set and the NFL is the MOST lucrative of the major sports, yet the players make the least. The current CBA is crafted (or KRAFTED) in such a way that the owners win bigger than I think is fair. I don't really need or want anyone to agree with me - it is just how I feel about it.

[obiken]

Post by burrrton » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:07 pm
Well, I don't think anyone deserves 'demonization' for doing what they can to maximize their earnings.

Sorry I do, if they negotiate a contract and then they aren't happy, too bad wait, get a new one. Don't leave your team hung out to dry just for you. The hate Kam thing is going to get worse, especially if it goes 6 or more games and we are 2-4.

[Agent 86]

Not one question or word about Kam during Pete's interview, must have asked them beforehand not to ask. I would think at the beginning Pete and John thought 100% by this day, Kam would be in camp. I can imagine there is some frustration on their side of things. I see no way in which they cave first. And if Kam is now out for game #1, I would expect more games.

Kam is in a spot now where he has to "hope" for some kind of failure by his team in order to prove a point, and his worth. Very odd.