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by **RiverDog** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:52 am

I'll apologize in advance for the redundant threat, but I think this new twist justifies a new one. Rarely do we hear anything about Paul Allen getting involved in anything relating to the operations of the team, so this is really something unique.

http://www.upi.com/Sports_News/2015/09/ ... 442031746/

I guess if I'd handed out as much money as Allen has, treated these guys like royalty, I'd get upset if one of my employees called me "petty", too. I understand that a lot of you folks have scoffed at the notion of a trade, but unless Kam comes back with his tail between his legs, I think that's exactly where this situation is going. I'll bet that JS is at this very moment working the phone lines.

by **Hawktown** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:34 am

I'm to the point with this that I would either find a way to make him retire or just sit the bench the rest of his contract. To hell with a trade at this point, lol.

by **c_hawkbob** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:45 am

Ed Werder says something on a sports talk radio show and a hundred sites report it just the same as if it was actual news.

I'm not saying the story is completely bogus, but at this point it's no more believable that Russ not being willing to sign for less that $25M/year or $100M total or that he's intent on forcing free agency next year.

Till I hear it from John or Pete or Paul, or at least see the words directly attributed to one of them, I'm more than a little skeptical.

by **RiverDog** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:48 am

This holdout is becoming a huge distraction. It's much worse than him simply missing games and not contributing. Every time a sports segment comes on that mentions the word "Seahawks", it is followed within seconds with the words "Kam Chancellor hold out". It cannot be good for the team's morale to have to be exposed to all of this drama. The team has to be thinking about cutting their losses, and doing it sooner rather than later.

by **Hawktown** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:50 am

c_hawkbob wrote:Ed Werder says something on a sports talk radio show and a hundred sites report it just the same as if it was actual news.

I'm not saying the story is completely bogus, but at this point it's not more believable that Russ no being willing to sign for less that $25M/year or $100M total or that he's intent on forcing free agency next year.

Till I hear it from John or Pete or Paul, or at least see the words directly attributed to one of them, I'm more than a little skeptical.

You are more than likely right there cbob. If I were the FO though or PA, I would have instantly made a decision on Kam just from using the word petty. I personally have lost a lot if not all respect for Kam and it will take a lot to gain that back, if at all possible. His skills make absolutely ZERO difference.

How much does a player lose for sitting the bench if anything?

by **RiverDog** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:53 am

c_hawkbob wrote:Ed Werder says something on a sports talk radio show and a hundred sites report it just the same as if it was actual news.

I'm not saying the story is completely bogus, but at this point it's no more believable that Russ not being willing to sign for less that $25M/year or $100M total or that he's intent on forcing free agency next year.

Till I hear it from John or Pete or Paul, or at least see the words directly attributed to one of them, I'm more than a little skeptical.

Werder doesn't just work for a small time sports talk radio show, he works for ESPN, the industry leader in the field of sports reporting and which is not known for spreading false rumors or making up chit, so I place a little more credibility in the report than had it come from some random hack looking for attention.

by **c_hawkbob** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:09 am

I didn't say anything about "small time", but them being the 'World Wild Leader" doesn't score much credibility points with me, they completely roll with the same twitter mentality tide the little guys do.

by **Hawktawk** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:26 am

Who knows? Its definitely getting ugly now. If indeed Allen has interjected himself into the middle of this it isn't a good sign long term. Allen isn't known to be a meddling owner when it comes to personnel decisions so this would be a radical departure.

by **RiverDog** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:25 pm

I realize that what I posted is not much more than a rumor, but it does align pretty well with the coded signals that are coming out of the Hawk's front office. Schneider is saying things like they are not going to let personal feelings affect business decisions. No one's giving any indication whatsoever that they are hopeful about the situation or that they expect him back soon. Even the eternal optimist Pete Carroll's mood has changed. The guy that's usually full of more chit than a Christmas turkey when he talks about his players has changed his tone of voice. He's now speaking in a monotone, and essentially calling Kam stubborn.

So yea, I don't have multiple credible sources to quote or hard facts to cite. But reading between the lines, I am getting the feeling that the Hawks have reached their limit with Kam, that they're done talking, that the ball is in his court and that's where it will stay.

by **NorthHawk** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:39 pm

So they let him sit until he decides to return.
Next man up and the team saves Cap money.

I didn't think Allen got involved with the team as much as suggested. I thought he lets the Football people do their job and then makes decisions about their future based on performance.
I guess I was wrong...

by **Hawk Sista** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:28 pm

Maybe Marshawn can pay Kam with some of his 12 million precedent setting dollars rather that wear a Kam jersey. Part of me sees it as a loyal sign of support and part of me sees a dig at Pete and john...which coming from him hardly seems fair. Maybe I'm wrong.

I'm officially pissed now. Sorry Bob. As I said in another thread, we are shelling out a lot of $ to fly from to Seattle for a game. Kam's failure to honor his contract "feels like" the whole damned thing will make us less competitive. That had better be an emotionally charged perception and nowhere near true.... But it sure feels true to me today.

I can't speak to the validity of the claims in the article, but the whole bleeping thing has put a damper on an otherwise exciting time. That by itself pisses me off (selfish, maybe... But damn it!!!)

by **burrrton** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:42 pm

I'm officially pissed now. Sorry Bob. As I said in another thread, we are shelling out a lot of $ to fly from to Seattle for a game. Kam's failure to honor his contract "feels like" the whole damned thing will make us less competitive. That had better be an emotionally charged perception and nowhere near true.... But it sure feels true to me today.

I'm with ya, Sis- spent a lot of money on season tix, and it feels like he's fcking up what was set up to be a dmn good situation.

by **Clem7** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:01 pm

I believe Allen's intervention may very well be true and personally hope it is. This may be Allen's way of taking the heat off of Pete and John so they can concentrate on the games.

Kam and his "plan" is no different than Mr. Harvin refusing to go back into the Dallas game. You care about your team? Actions speak louder than words. Thanks Mr. Bennett for being a true teammate.

by **RiverDog** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:04 pm

Hawk Sista wrote:Maybe Marshawn can pay Kam with some of his 12 million precedent setting dollars rather that wear a Kam jersey. Part of me sees it as a loyal sign of support and part of me sees a dig at Pete and john...which coming from him hardly seems fair. Maybe I'm wrong.

I'm officially pissed now. Sorry Bob. As I said in another thread, we are shelling out a lot of $ to fly from to Seattle for a game. Kam's failure to honor his contract "feels like" the whole damned thing will make us less competitive. That had better be an emotionally charged perception and nowhere near true.... But it sure feels true to me today.

I can't speak to the validity of the claims in the article, but the whole bleeping thing has put a damper on an otherwise exciting time. That by itself pisses me off (selfish, maybe... But damn it!!!)

I can understand your sentiments, , Sis, but I don't sympathize with them. I'm not pissed off, not at all. More like disappointed. Emotionally I'm looking at this like an injury, that Kam is simply unavailable. Don't get me wrong, I want to win as badly if not worse than the rest of you, but I'm not going to start writing hate letters to Kam or Schneider, and I won't boo Kam should he return, even if the next time we see him he's in a 49'ers uniform. It is what it is. Next man up!

I'm looking forward to tomorrow. I just got through mowing my lawn and taking care of all my weekend chores so I can dedicate tomorrow to football. I gotta get up early, see if Alshon Jeffery is starting or not so I can set my fantasy team. I also changed my pick'em pick. I originally had us losing to the Rams, now I think we win. Our front 7 is as solid as it's ever been. Sure, we have some holes in our secondary, but so long as they can keep everything in front of them, I think we'll be forcing them to kick a lot of field goals. It's the start of football season!

by **jshawaii22** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:13 pm

lt's really sad that the night before the first game of the 2015 NFL Season... where the past two have ended in the Super Bowl...and an offseason already energy depleted with the dragged out negotiation of RWilson's contract... and here we are talking about rumors of our owner actually going mental about Kam and his contract and not about the Rams game.

by **RiverDog** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:57 pm

jshawaii22 wrote:lt's really sad that the night before the first game of the 2015 NFL Season... where the past two have ended in the Super Bowl...and an offseason already energy depleted with the dragged out negotiation of RWilson's contract... and here we are talking about rumors of our owner actually going mental about Kam and his contract and not about the Rams game.

I wouldn't call an order to the club to suspend negotiations "going mental.". By almost all accounts, Kam's holdout is unreasonable, so why wouldn't an owner say that enough's enough? It seems to me to be a measured response. He could have said "ship his ass off to the Giants!"

by **LTH** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:42 pm

I say trade his ass and let him see how nice it really is to play with the seahhawks trade him to cleveland...

by **obiken** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:59 pm

He will be back by game 6, if not we move on. Hes a great player but no one is bigger than the team.

by **Zorn76** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:31 am

We all want him back.

Until then, win without him.

by **kalibane** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:39 am

Kam might be the best SS in the league but he's still a SS, one of the easier positions to cover. He's an important player but not the kind of lynch pin that Hair Polamalu was in Pittsburgh. I think we'll be fine and if we aren't it will because of the offensive line not Kam missing.

by **RiverDog** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:01 am

kalibane wrote:Kam might be the best SS in the league but he's still a SS, one of the easier positions to cover. He's an important player but not the kind of lynch pin that Hair Polamalu was in Pittsburgh. I think we'll be fine and if we aren't it will because of the offensive line not Kam missing.

I'm not worried as much about his on paper contributions. You're right, a strong safety is not all that important in the whole scheme of things, and I think that Bailey will do just fine.

What worries me more than his on field loss is the impact it could have on the locker room. Kam is a team leader, and along with Lynch, gives the team their identity, a symbol of our smash mouth style. The defense voted him their captain. Beast was wearing his jersey the other day. Kam has called the Seahawks "petty," Pete is undeniably down about it, and there's a rumor that the old man has called off the negotiations. This thing is getting ugly, and we have that other thing to heal, specifically the debacle in SB 49. Plus we open with two road games, two of the toughest consecutive games on our schedule. That's really bad timing.

Today is a big game. Not only is it an interdivisional game against a team and in a venue where we've had trouble before, but also because it's going to be huge in helping us get over these controversies. If we win, Kam's holdout won't be a problem in the locker room. Winning cures all wounds. But if we lose, even if we lose 3-0, Kam's holdout will pour salt into an open wound. It has the potential to rip this team apart.

by **Agent 86** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:08 am

I'm not worried as much about his on paper contributions. You're right, a strong safety is not all that important in the whole scheme of things, and I think that Bailey will do just fine.

What worries me more than his on field loss is the impact it could have on the locker room. Kam is a team leader, and along with Lynch, gives the team their identity, a symbol of our smash mouth style. The defense voted him their captain. Beast was wearing his jersey the other day. Kam has called the Seahawks "petty," Pete is undeniably down about it, and there's a rumor that the old man has called off the negotiations. This thing is getting ugly, and we have that other thing to heal, specifically the debacle in SB 49. Plus we open with two road games, two of the toughest consecutive games on our schedule. That's really bad timing.

Today is a big game. Not only is it an interdivisional game against a team and in a venue where we've had trouble before, but also because it's going to be huge in helping us get over these controversies. If we win, Kam's holdout won't be a problem in the locker room. Winning cures all wounds. But if we lose, even if we lose 3-0, Kam's holdout will pour salt into an open wound. It has the potential to rip this team apart.

Riv,

I think the concerns you mentioned are pretty valid, good points. All except that last line. I disagree with that. No way this team gets ripped apart, even if they start 0-2. But that is just me. I believe this team is just too strong character wise, from the top down, to get ripped apart. Russell Wilson won't let that happen. Earl Thomas won't let that happen. Pete Carroll won't let that happen. And so on.

But yeah, your other points are well taken. There is that other thing to heal, and Kam's holdout certainly doesn't help. Winning today will go a long way in having this team feel good about itself.

by **Seahawks4Ever** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:15 am

Obi; I think you have that backwards. Kam will not be back BY game 6, he will be back it time to play the FINAL 6 regular season games so that this season will count as a "full" season toward his future free agency.

by **RiverDog** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:49 am

Agent 86 wrote:Riv,

I think the concerns you mentioned are pretty valid, good points. All except that last line. I disagree with that. No way this team gets ripped apart, even if they start 0-2. But that is just me. I believe this team is just too strong character wise, from the top down, to get ripped apart. Russell Wilson won't let that happen. Earl Thomas won't let that happen. Pete Carroll won't let that happen. And so on.

I'm not saying it will happen. But it most certainly has the potential to take us down, especially when you combine it with the fact that we have another division to get over, specifically SB 49. Having such a contentious situation going on would pose a threat to any team no matter how many strong characters or how unified they appeared. None of us are in the locker room so we really can't say whether it will be a problem or not. Beast wearing a #31 the other day isn't a good sign. It means he's chosen sides.

by **savvyman** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:04 am

Clem7 wrote:
Kam and his "plan" is no different than Mr. Harvin refusing to go back into the Dallas game. You care about your team? Actions speak louder than words. Thanks Mr. Bennett for being a true teammate.

I was wondering when someone would draw this comparison....... Harvin refused to go in on some plays......Kam is refusing to go in on an entire training camp and now the entire first game.

Didn't we end up trading Harvin over this behavior?

by **Agent 86** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:58 pm

So what's the feeling after the game?.....Bailey certainly didn't have a stellar game, which bodes well for Kam.

But I keep thinking to myself that the 'Hawks aren't going to move any money, so if Kam thinks today helped his cause, I would say he is wrong.

The D is not the same without him, as we expected. The secondary was probably the weakest part of the D today.

My gut is telling me that Kam will not be on the field in Green Bay next week, I don't think anything has changed after today.

by **NorthHawk** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:14 pm

"I was wondering when someone would draw this comparison....... Harvin refused to go in on some plays......Kam is refusing to go in on an entire training camp and now the entire first game.

Didn't we end up trading Harvin over this behavior?"

Completely different situation.
This is the business game we don't usually see.
It's about money, not competing.

by **RiverDog** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:21 pm

Agent 86 wrote:So what's the feeling after the game?.....Bailey certainly didn't have a stellar game, which bodes well for Kam.

But I keep thinking to myself that the 'Hawks aren't going to move any money, so if Kam thinks today helped his cause, I would say he is wrong.

The D is not the same without him, as we expected. The secondary was probably the weakest part of the D today.

My gut is telling me that Kam will not be on the field in Green Bay next week, I don't anything has changed after today.

I don't think he'll be in Green Bay, either. Even if he end his holdout Tuesday, I doubt that he can get into game shape and up to speed fast enough to make a significant contribution. The result of this game might embolden him, but I doubt that it changes our front offices mind very much.

I haven't seen or heard enough analysis to say how much Kam's absence hurt us, but when you lose a game that close, it has to have had a negative effect on us. I agree, the secondary was the weak link. This was Williams first game in our D, too, and there was a lot of gaps in those zones, so you have to assume that the inexperience hurt us. The front 7 played really well, almost singlehandedly won the game for us, scored one defensive TD and helped set up Lockett's punt return TD.

by **c_hawkbob** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:49 pm

Provides a little perspective: http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/09/15/nfl- ... ks-holdout

by **Hawktawk** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:26 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:Provides a little perspective: http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/09/15/nfl- ... ks-holdout

Thats a really good read Bob. I have to say all the points make perfect sense. IMO Chancellor is indeed the best defensive player on the team and the guy who makes the LOB go. Russ was My SB 48 MVP but if it was to go to a defender it should have been Cam. If the guy isn't going to be here the Hawks are going to have to find a new way to win because that was the worst looking defense in the secondary Ive seen since the Atlanta playoff loss in 2012. Baily cant carry Cams jock strap, sorry. Not many guys could...

by **burrrton** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:33 pm

Peter King says:

No, in the NFL, a contract is not a contract.

Uh, yes it is, Peter. A contract doesn't have to have every penny guaranteed for it to be a contract, and before you shed tears because NFL players don't get the same ridiculous luxuries MLB and NBA players do, the NFL beats both their asses combined in revenue and on-field competitiveness.

Yeah, that brings "SO THEY CAN AFFORD IT" into the conversation, and that's fine if they can negotiate it into the next CBA, but before you start advocating that, consider whether you want our team being competitively kneecapped by every overpriced veteran that isn't playing to his potential.

Also, there is an equally valid argument that maybe MLB and the NBA should consider becoming more like the NFL, and society in general, rather than vice versa. Who says 100% guaranteed contracts should be the norm for pro athletes but no one else? The NFL doesn't have those and it's both a better product and more lucrative (arguably related).

He then goes through all the other tropes everybody over the age of 6 has already pondered- "BUT THEY CAN TWIST AN ANKLE!", etc.

Get your ass back in practice, Kam.

by **MackStrongIsMyHero** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:53 pm

The article just shows me Kam isn't the devil, but the front office isn't wrong for what they are doing. Kam has made $9+ million over the course of his career to date; that's not bad scratch for what he's done so far. I look at it like the FO said, "we expect you to continue to play well, so here's way more money per year than your first contract." They held up their end.

And maybe the players are behind him, but to say he's hasn't turned his back on his team is untrue. He could have showed up on time and been paid to play; he's not volunteering his services to the team, nor is he grossly underpaid.

It isn't that I don't think he is worth more; it just isn't in the cards this year to pay him more.

by **mykc14** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:21 pm

I love Kam and what he has done for this team, but this article doesn't help me understand at all why he is holding out. This has to be the stupidest piece I have read on this subject. We are not ignorant fans, we understand how contracts work in the NFL, as do players who have to negotiate knowing the only guarantees are the signing bonus and injury guarantees, which the author doesn't mention. So when he says the NFL can cut a player for 'spraining an ankle' that might be true but they still have to pay a substantial amount. The crap about him going to college to be a QB is completely irrelevant. Did he sign this current contract thinking he was going to be a QB or did he sign it full well knowing he would be a SS, one of the stupidest arguments on this subject I have ever heard. Also, the fact that he tried to get extra money to help feed his family as a kid is completely irrelevant to these current negotiations. Complete crap. If his plan is to make a statement about how contracts in the NFL work and how it is somehow 'unfair' to the players he isn't going to find too much support from fans. If they (players) really want to make guaranteed contracts an issue wait until the next collective bargaining agreement.

by **c_hawkbob** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:32 pm

Burr, that's not written by PK. MMQB is no longer a Peter King column but SI has made it into it's own website.

The article just shows me Kam isn't the devil, but the front office isn't wrong for what they are doing.

Exactly where I'm at.

I hate that this is happening to my team and endagering what could be it's epic legacy, and Kam Pizzes me off to no end for it, but I can't hate the guy for it. I fully support the team's stance, but can't help but hope for some sort of compromise.

by **burrrton** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:46 pm

I fully support the team's stance, but can't help but hope for some sort of compromise.

No question about it.

by **Hawk Sista** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:57 pm

Exactly where I'm at.

I hate that this is happening to my team and endagering what could be it's epic legacy, and Kam Pizzes me off to no end for it, but I can't hate the guy for it. I fully support the team's stance, but can't help but hope for some sort of compromise.

Me too. I'm not even sure what word(s) I'd use to define what is up with me right now. Pissed? Mad? Worried? Disappointed? all of the above? DAMN IT!

by **c_hawkbob** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:45 pm

Conflicted. And it sucks. I like it better when I'm sure how I feel ...

by **RiverDog** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:40 pm

mykc14 wrote:I love Kam and what he has done for this team, but this article doesn't help me understand at all why he is holding out. This has to be the stupidest piece I have read on this subject. We are not ignorant fans, we understand how contracts work in the NFL, as do players who have to negotiate knowing the only guarantees are the signing bonus and injury guarantees, which the author doesn't mention. So when he says the NFL can cut a player for 'spraining an ankle' that might be true but they still have to pay a substantial amount. The crap about him going to college to be a QB is completely irrelevant. Did he sign this current contract thinking he was going to be a QB or did he sign it full well knowing he would be a SS, one of the stupidest arguments on this subject I have ever heard. Also, the fact that he tried to get extra money to help feed his family as a kid is completely irrelevant to these current negotiations. Complete crap. If his plan is to make a statement about how contracts in the NFL work and how it is somehow 'unfair' to the players he isn't going to find too much support from fans. If they (players) really want to make guaranteed contracts an issue wait until the next collective bargaining agreement.

This comment is the closet to the way I feel about the subject.

by **Zorn76** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:53 pm

kalibane wrote:Kam might be the best SS in the league but he's still a SS, one of the easier positions to cover. He's an important player but not the kind of lynch pin that Hair Polamalu was in Pittsburgh. I think we'll be fine and if we aren't it will because of the offensive line not Kam missing.

Couldn't agree more.

by **Hawktawk** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:20 am

Cam is the best SS in the league by a MILE. He is the most feared hitter in the league. Did you all miss the playoff game vs Carolina? My God this is superman.
Hes a HOF type talent.
As his holdout lingers we are hearing more and more about his leadership in the locker room holding the team together and getting everybody's mind right as well.
He isn't replaceable folks.The d will not be the same. This team will have to find another way. If it aint broke dont fix it.
PAY HIM

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