Onside kick attempt

[RiverDog]

At the start of OT, Steven Hauschka kicked a ball about 15 yards in the air. To all observers, it appeared to be an onside kick attempt. If it was, it was a pretty poor one as the ball did not strike the ground and bounce ala the NFCCG and it carried about 5 yards too far, allowing a player to fair catch it before it hit the ground. In the post game interview, Pete Carroll claims that it was supposed to have been a pooch kick, which would have meant that the kick was supposed to have traveled about 30-35 yards to the opponent's 25 yard line or so.

I wish I could post the video, but I don't have the savvy to do so. But there is no way in hell that Hauschka was attempting to kick the ball 30 yards or so, not with the way he approached and struck the ball in the manner that he did. It was an onside kick attempt, and no amount of spin is going to make me believe otherwise. So at least in my mind, either Pete is grossly mis informed, ie a mis communication with his kicker or something, or he's lying through his teeth and throwing his kicker under the bus ala Jim Mora.

So which is it?

[obiken]

Doesn't matter, its the why? I admire Pete's gambling attitude when we are down, but tied in OT why? The risk outweigh the benefits. Win on straight up FBall.

[NorthHawk]

Both Carroll and Hauschka said the kick was supposed to be a pooch kick but was botched.

[RiverDog]

Doesn't matter, its the why? I admire Pete's gambling attitude when we are down, but tied in OT why? The risk outweigh the benefits. Win on straight up FBall.

Yes, it does matter, obi. I want to believe what my coach says, and that excuse is worse than the dog ate my homework. If we thought we could catch the Rams off guard and tried an onsides kick attempt, I can handle that. But please don't tell me that Hauschka was trying to kick the ball 25-40 yards and f$cked it up. Don't piss on my head and tell me that it's only rain.

[RiverDog]

Both Carroll and Hauschka said the kick was supposed to be a pooch kick but was botched.

OK, I hadn't heard that Hauschka said that. That makes a difference.

Piss poor execution if that was the case.,

[NorthHawk]

Yah, he kicked the Tee as well as he kicked the ball.

[Zorn76]

Either way the call was absurd.

You kick it deep, and trust first your ST's to make the tackle inside the 30 (at least), then allow your defense to do its job.

[FolkCrusader]

Hausch's quote; “The result wasn’t planned there. I mis-hit the kick. We were supposed to kick it down field farther but I mis-hit it. So yeah, I take responsibility on that.’’

Pete's quote; “We were kicking the ball to a certain area of the field, and we didn’t hit it right,’’ “As simple as that.’’

[obiken]

Either way the call was absurd.

You kick it deep, and trust first your ST's to make the tackle inside the 30 (at least), then allow your defense to do its job.

That's what I say!

[RiverDog]

Either way the call was absurd.

You kick it deep, and trust first your ST's to make the tackle inside the 30 (at least), then allow your defense to do its job.

Especially when you're playing in a dome. Had we been playing when it was 20 degrees outside where the ball doesn't carry as well, then I could see it. And I don't remember our kickoff coverages being that bad. The play we got burned on was a punt return.

[Hawktawk]

The only potential advantage of such a call would be the ability to end the game on a single FG without surrendering another OT possession to the Rams. That being said the velocity on Hauschkas leg would not have propelled the ball more than 20-25 yards had he picked it clean.They wouldn't admit exactly where they wanted the ball to land. Like for what? Saving it for another time???OMG!!!
It felt for all the world like hormonal PC wanting to stick it to Fisher on the way out the door for all the ST pantsings he had received in the past. Unfortunately the Rams were obviously ready as evidenced by the receivers extremely heady fair catch signal. Rest assured any potential reciever of a pooch kick had the same instructions. It was an idiotic call.Rams ST own us,period.Lockette put a dent in that but still......

PC is worrying me. I quit worrying in 2013 because he had a flawless year. He was great all the way through last season.Then came the final 2 minutes of the SB and now we are starting out like this.
Please Pete, quit overthinking things. Trust your guys.

[RiverDog]

The only potential advantage of such a call would be the ability to end the game on a single FG without surrendering another OT possession to the Rams. That being said the velocity on Hauschkas leg would not have propelled the ball more than 20-25 yards had he picked it clean.They wouldn't admit exactly where they wanted the ball to land. Like for what? Saving it for another time???OMG!!!
It felt for all the world like hormonal PC wanting to stick it to Fisher on the way out the door for all the ST pantsings he had received in the past. Unfortunately the Rams were obviously ready as evidenced by the receivers extremely heady fair catch signal. Rest assured any potential reciever of a pooch kick had the same instructions. It was an idiotic call.Rams ST own us,period.Lockette put a dent in that but still......

PC is worrying me. I quit worrying in 2013 because he had a flawless year. He was great all the way through last season.Then came the final 2 minutes of the SB and now we are starting out like this.
Please Pete, quit overthinking things. Trust your guys.

We kicked off 7 times, 4 touchbacks, 3 returns averaging 21 yards with a long of 22. I don't know what it was we were so afraid of.

[Hawktawk]

We kicked off 7 times, 4 touchbacks, 3 returns averaging 21 yards with a long of 22. I don't know what it was we were so afraid of.

Yeah not to mention they make the Rams drive the length of the field potentially turning the ball over and accomplishing the same thing they wanted to achieve with an extremely risky low percentage pooch kick.
Dumb and dumber. PC has had a great career as a HC but his obituary will be littered with some very odd decisions in critical situations where he seemed to not have his finger on the pulse of the game.

[c_hawkbob]

As I said in another thread, Pete didn't want the last call of XLIX to stand as the worst call he ever made.

[RiverDog]

As I said in another thread, Pete didn't want the last call of XLIX to stand as the worst call he ever made.

LOL! Make us forget about it, huh? Is that like breaking your left arm so that the sprained right arm doesn't hurt as bad?

[c_hawkbob]

Just like that.

And as long as our minds are bent in this particular direction; that last play obviously called for a power, not a hand off in the backfield to a stationary Beast. Give him the ball with some momentum! But doing it this way allows us to say "see, a hand off wouldn't have worked anyway".

[Hawktawk]

Just like that.

And as long as our minds are bent in this particular direction; that last play obviously called for a power, not a hand off in the backfield to a stationary Beast. Give him the ball with some momentum! But doing it this way allows us to say "see, a hand off wouldn't have worked anyway".

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^That
The last call was almost as bad as the onside.

[Hawk Sista]

A. It wasn't an onside kick. It was a botched kick.

B. Marshawn was converting 3&2/3&1 all day., so that call (in retrospect) wasn't that bad. The play calling all day was weird, probably because RW was getting hammered and their D dictated.

C. We expected to struggle on the o-line and we did.

D. Our D-line was fine.

E. Horrible tackling by backers and secondary.

F. Squishy- über soft middle of the field. Wheel routes and dink/ dunk killed us.

G. We're not gonna do well in GB if we don't improve.

H. I almost wanna change my mind and cave to Kam.

[Hawktawk]

A. It wasn't an onside kick. It was a botched kick.



It was a botched pooch kick. Hauchka had no velocity on his leg even before he hit it fat. I think they were trying to pooch it over the first wave of receivers but it was nowhere near a botched conventional kickoff. It was a stupid decision period.

. I almost wanna change my mind and cave to Kam.

Ive made up my mind, get the man in here whatever it takes.The back end defense is a shell of itself without him, even with a really good showing by the front 7.And over the middle is a freeway. Next Sunday will get ugly vs twice the offensive challenge

[Hawk Sista]

Keep in mind that Earl isn't really Earl, Cary isn't Maxi and Sherm can't be Sherm w/o Earl and Kam.

[NorthHawk]

Earl isn't in game shape, yet. He was pretty rusty in some of his tackling and angles.
This game should help him be sharper.
I think it was Dungy who last night said the Defense misses Kam not just for his presence, but for how he made sure everyone got into the right place before the play.
It makes sense as on field leadership is as important as locker room leadership and it might have been a factor in some of the LB play, too.

[mykc14]

A. It wasn't an onside kick. It was a botched kick.

B. Marshawn was converting 3&2/3&1 all day., so that call (in retrospect) wasn't that bad. The play calling all day was weird, probably because RW was getting hammered and their D dictated.

C. We expected to struggle on the o-line and we did.

D. Our D-line was fine.

E. Horrible tackling by backers and secondary.

F. Squishy- über soft middle of the field. Wheel routes and dink/ dunk killed us.

G. We're not gonna do well in GB if we don't improve.

H. I almost wanna change my mind and cave to Kam.

I agree with everything except B and H. I never have really liked handing the ball to a stationary running back on 3rd and short. I don't mind doing it every once in awhile as a tendency breaker, but not in critical situations.

It looked like Bailey really hurt us today, but that is what you had to expect as the Hawks continued to find a more suitable replacement for Kam. If they really were happy with Bailey they probably wouldn't have been searching so hard in the 11th hour for safety help. If the FO has any blame in all of this it that they (IMO) didn't really feel like Kam was going to miss games and didn't find a suitable replacement until they traded for the Cheifs Safety. I am not saying Bailey can't be a SS in the nfl but he really didn't look ready and I am not just talking about the last TD he gave up. I hope McCray sees a lot of time against GB and plays better than Bailey. One of Bailey's biggest issues is lack of speed (he ran like a 4.7 40) and coverage in general. I know McCray is said to be very solid in the run also, but supposedly has some better coverage skills. Either way Pete and Co will make the right decision.

[Hawk Sista]

The kick was indeed supposed to be a pooch (or mortar kick) and it was botched. I don't really see the need to split hairs on that as I understand the situation.

To be clear, I said almost on H. I'd be tempted if I were in a leadership/decision making role to cave....which would make me a crappy GM. I love Kam and what he brings to the table, and as irritated as I am with him and as much as my eyes told me we need him - I still believe 1) we don't have the cap room, and 2) it's a precedent we cannot afford to set. Who would we have to say goodbye to next year if we appease Kam? How many? I found myself just flat out disappointed. While there were far bigger problems than his absence, I really think we win that game had Kam been in camp and ready to go yesterday. All at once I was sad, disappointed and pissed.

I hear you on the final O play call. It felt weird from the beginning, almost like they were not on the same page. That play stands out as particularly bad as the game ended for us on that play. There were so many times during the game where I was scratching my head. Taking a sack and getting us out of position to try a FG?? 3rd and 4 and you throw it a yard behind the LOS?? Two FGs instead of TDs in the red zone? With this line, we are gonna need to have some bam-bam....ball gets out of RW's hand in less than 3 seconds or we just are not even gonna make it to 3 & 3 to be able to have that come to Jesus meeting.

As for my list and how the troubles look moving forward........this is what I think:

The tacking problem will get fixed. This is a group who pride themselves on tackling well. The D, in large part (not really the D-Line, but the rest) seemed "too jacked" and were over-pursuing and speeding past the ball carrier. I think they will settle in and start tackling better Sunday.

I think the O-line faced a VERY tough D-line and they will continue to gel and get better week in and week out. I think the Hawks will establish a quicker tempo which will help the line seem more successful.

This group has been historically guilty of letting the dink/dunk stuff occur in favor of eliminating the BIG play. Last year we had a league low 32 plays of 20 yards or more. Yesterday we allowed 8 against the RAMS. Zoiks!!! With ET at 70%, Maxi gone and Kam holding out - we are more susceptible to giving up big plays (clearly) and I don't know what will happen with the squishy middle if Kam is out. I hate to say it, but I think this is the year that our D falls from its first place ranking its maintained over the last 3 years. I think we will be like top 7 or 8. That said, I do think the O will move up a few notches after a few weeks and we will be ok.

[RiverDog]

A. It wasn't an onside kick. It was a botched kick.

OK, he botched it. It's hard for me to believe, but I'm not going to call Pete and SH liars. But it was a damn poor decision. The odds of a touchback were at least 50%, in a dome no less. Plus the KO's they did return barely got to the 20.

B. Marshawn was converting 3&2/3&1 all day., so that call (in retrospect) wasn't that bad. The play calling all day was weird, probably because RW was getting hammered and their D dictated.

I pretty much agree. But I don't like my QB in a shot gun in short yardage. The play takes too long to develop and gives the D too much of an opportunity to penetrate. Lynch's previous conversations weren't when the game was on the line. St. Louis guessed that Lynch would get the ball so they were sitting on it. We went to the well one too many times.

C. We expected to struggle on the o-line and we did.

As I discussed in another thread, our O line didn't play as badly as they have in other previous games vs. StL over the past couple of years. They struggled, but not as badly as I thought they would. We gained 124 yards on the ground, better than two thirds of the teams in the league yesterday.

D. Our D-line was fine.

They were more than fine. They were outstanding.

E. Horrible tackling by backers and secondary.

Agreed

F. Squishy- über soft middle of the field. Wheel routes and dink/ dunk killed us.

Agreed.

G. We're not gonna do well in GB if we don't improve.

Without a doubt.

H. I almost wanna change my mind and cave to Kam.

No. Anyone that takes a stand like that and caves after just one game is a gutless wonder.

[Hawk Sista]

Did you read my other post? I said almost. Of course we don't cave to Kam. And in another thread I stood up for the o-line. But to deny they struggled is delusional.

You are supposed to say - you are 100% correct, sis.

[RiverDog]

Did you read my other post? I said almost. Of course we don't cave to Kam. And in another thread I stood up for the o-line. But to deny they struggled is delusional.

You are supposed to say - you are 100% correct, sis.

I did not say that they didn't struggle. They did, relative to an average offensive line against an average defense. But they are less than average, they are a hodge podge patchwork of low draft picks and former defensive linemen, and StL is an above average defense, particularly their front 7, at least with the way we match up with them. They performed above my expectations. I expected them to be really bad, that we wouldn't get any non-Russell rushing first downs, that we wouldn't get 80 yards rushing, and so forth.

And even when you're wrong, your right. Rather, you're alright. 100% alright!

[Hawk Sista]

Your alright with me too, RD. 100%. Even when your wrong

[HumanCockroach]

I think it fair to point out Kam didn't "look ready" for two and a half seasons, little early to throw Baily into to scrap heap.

[Hawktawk]

I think it fair to point out Kam didn't "look ready" for two and a half seasons, little early to throw Baily into to scrap heap.

Well I agree with that. The problem is the window is open right now. Will it still be in 2.5 seasons? We need Kam or we need Bailey to take a quantum leap NOW, period. We are alone in the cellar with a trip to GB looming............

[obiken]

And we will lose that game. The panic time is IF we lose to the Bears at home. I don't think we will

[Vegaseahawk]

PC & I share the same birthday, (although he is a little older than me). Happy womb exit day Pete.
I was listening to Jim Rome on the radio today. He did a little piece on PC about the botched kick. It was hilarious.http://jimrome.com/audio/the-jim-rome-show/ Click on hour 2 & go to the 15.40 mark.

[RiverDog]

I think it fair to point out Kam didn't "look ready" for two and a half seasons, little early to throw Baily into to scrap heap.

I don't think anybody was trying to throw Bailey to the scrap heap. Long term, he may eventually become a great player. He was simply not ready to take on a starting role in the #1 defense in the league. He was forced into a really tough situation as opponents will be targeting him, looking for our weak link. It was a huge challenge.

[Hawk Sista]

PC & I share the same birthday, (although he is a little older than me). Happy womb exit day Pete.
I was listening to Jim Rome on the radio today. He did a little piece on PC about the botched kick. It was hilarious.http://jimrome.com/audio/the-jim-rome-show/ Click on hour 2 & go to the 15.40 mark.

Happy birthday to you, Vegas

[Vegaseahawk]

Thanks Sista, & congrats on the FFL win. A typical NFL weekend sees me spreading my emotion in 3 directions. 1. Seahawks Win 2. Sports Book wagers. 3. FFL Wins. I won in all 3 leagues I'm in, & hit a parlay ticket this week. I would gladly trade the other 2 for a Seahawk win every week. Keep in mind that I don't load up at the sports book. I've lived here too long to try to beat out those guys.

[Hawk Sista]

It's alway foot to win in fantasy, but hell, I'd trade all o that & more if the Hawks would win. I think we are in for a slow start this year. One OT away loss to a tough D and people are already calling for heads. Zoiks

Anyway, I'm glad there were some positives. Hope you had a great day!!