Hawk Sista wrote:One day - maybe it'll be 15 years from now - you guys are going to yearn for these days. We've been one of the best teams in football for three years. Do you really think Pete and john are unaware?? We have x amount of $$ in the salary cap. That $$ is spent largely on 10-12 dudes, most of whom are on defense (RW and Beast excepted). This is all part of how these guys build. Sure, they'd rather have Dallas' online but then they wouldn't have who we have. And looky who has made it to the super bowl, after going deep in the playoffs for these same three years you've been whining about.
The cap is the cap. When a star is born on your team from the 5th round, you pay him. We have no wiggle room. This may be the year the system breaks down because the D just let the Rams hang 34 points on us, but their hodge-podge ugly ass o-line (which takes until mid season to be decent) has been good enough for us to have the single best stretch in franchise history. WAKE UP. you don't know more than Pete, John, Tom and Pat Ruel. You just don't.
And this is coming from a girl who might draft an offensive linemen in each of the first three rounds. You have to know by now that it's just how this organization is going to do it. As uncomfy as it is, one cannot deny the success we have had.
NorthHawk wrote:
The FO hasn't shown an inclination to pay a relatively modest price for OL when they develop into average OL and become FA's.
Will this continue once these guys reach that level and their contracts are up?
Is this what we are going to see every year?
Okung and maybe Sweezy gone after this year, Britt when his contract is up?
I don't get how that can continue and yet develop a good OL if we are exchanging experienced players with inexperienced ones most years.
If this is the plan, then it becomes a necessity to draft good OL so they only have to teach the finer points instead of the most rudimentary basics as well as the finer points.
The team gets the benefits of a good O Lineman earlier for a few years before letting him go in FA.
The Offense will never reach its potential without a solid OL.
I really think we will see how bad it is when Lynch retires and we don't see our RB breaking 6 - 8 tackles per game.
Hawk Sista wrote:I do not disagree with what you are saying at all. My point is this: the FO has a plan. That plan is not my plan. The plan has resulted in three consecutive years of us being one of the best teams, if not the BEST, in the NFL. I don't necessarily think the plan is to hose the O-line, I think it has just worked out that way. This off season should prove interesting with Okung and Sweezy for sure....
And hell, maybe this is the year we take a step back and run an 8 & 8 season. Then the boys will really have some figuring to do. BUT, they have a philosophy and a plan. We see snippets (win forever, always compete, etc) of the philosophy and we see the product on the field. That does not translate into us being privy to real meaningful understanding their plan long term. The fact remains, however, that they absolutely have a long range plan.
When the dynamic duo of PC and JS arrived, the cupboards were bare as hell. It was no big surprise that they went shopping/hunting/gathering to restock the shelves. We were ok with discarding the old regime because it needed to happen. The trouble we are running into now, IMHO, is the new commodities we have acquired have learned and grown and gotten really good. Part of this is because they are indeed really very good and part of this is that they are working as part of the plan/philosophy. Now, we either have to pay them or someone else will because we simply cannot pay everyone top dollar. We are now starting to see some of the stars leave the nest. They were made stars because of this system and this opportunity and out they will go because there is no other way in this era of parity. John and Pete have proven they can build something special - their way. what remains to be seen is if they can maintain it. And I ain't going to give up on the idea that we will have winning seasons for a few years to come.
Since this teams inception, we have had exactly 5 seasons (since 1976) with more than 10 wins in a season. 1984, 2005 and the last three years. Think about that for just a second. Of the 5 times the Hawks have bested 10 wins in 40 ever lovin years, THREE of them have been within the last three years with two trips to the super bowl. One cannot build a 4 win team into a perennial powerhouse winning 11, 13, and 12 times/season with back-to-back super bowl trips by accident. This is, without question, the most successful run the Hawks have had as a team. The Defense these past three years will be considered amongst the best stretches for any defense in the history of the league.
I'm not disagreeing with the history, but that's done with.
What's going to happen in the future without the premier tackle breaking RB?
4 of the 5 starting OL from our Super Bowl win are gone. That Offense looked like it would have a future, but the OL replacements to date haven't demonstrated they are equal to that group.
Cable says this bunch in time should be the best OL he's had. How long is that? 3 games, maybe 11? How about 2 years down the road?
Can we afford to wait more than a few games and watch Wilson get beat up and waste Graham and Lockett's talents before we are out of the race?
They have to get better soon up front. I hope it starts this Sunday.
But the OL personnel they've drafted for the scheme they're running haven't earned the benefit of the doubt for the past couple of season's now.
Offensively along the line they haven't been worthy of a championship team.
MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:A few weeks together and facing arguably the most talented defensive line in the NFL. Not calling you out, burrton; just noting that little bit puts it even more in perspective. They'd have to be number 1 on the list of defensive lines we'd rather not have faced right out of the gate.
The FO office appears to believe they can get o-line talent later in the draft, but can't get the difference makers at the skill positions later. Were there Frank Clark and Tyler Lockett equivalents in the 4th or later?
No way the FO is so out of touch that they aren't aware of the level of talent they bring in on the oline. It's a conscious decision to utilize that level of talent to enable them to draft what they believe will win more games. So far, it has worked pretty well, but I'll concede the growing pains have been very frustrating. I'll also concede that a QB like Wilson is a huge difference maker for this approach.
HumanCockroach - "Good lord, wait until at least game fricken two before rambling on about how horrid any one player or group is performing. This is downright moronic. " We want different lineman!" "They are garbage after ONE game, against the best front 7 in the game" LMFAO. Get a grip people, its a long season"
Zorn76 wrote:And the OL deserves the Least amount of credit for that success, burrrton.
This team has succeeded in spite of them, not because.
And I know it's one game for 2015. Let's hope that they can achieve the "under" for 44 sacks, which is about avg for what they've given up over the last 2 seasons.
Hawktawk wrote:They are on a pace for 96 sacks currently. Its gotta get better.
Hawk Sista wrote:One day - maybe it'll be 15 years from now - you guys are going to yearn for these days. We've been one of the best teams in football for three years. Do you really think Pete and john are unaware?? We have x amount of $$ in the salary cap. That $$ is spent largely on 10-12 dudes, most of whom are on defense (RW and Beast excepted). This is all part of how these guys build. Sure, they'd rather have Dallas' online but then they wouldn't have who we have. And looky who has made it to the super bowl, after going deep in the playoffs for these same three years you've been whining about.
Zorn76 wrote:And the OL deserves the Least amount of credit for that success, burrrton.
Watching the game Sunday was one of the most frustrating games I've ever watched (even when I thought they found a way to pull it out). So rest assured if the offensive line play continues like this for the rest of the season I will NOT be yearning for these days.
I will yearn for the days of 2012/2013. Watching a team you know doesn't have the talent to compete is only slightly more frustrating than watching the team with the most collective talent in the league being undone by the deficiencies of a single position group. Especially when they had plenty of opportunities to address the deficient position group but instead pinned all their hopes on late round picks, undrafted free agents and conversion projects.
The only upside to the way this team played is I can now sympathize with my friends who are Bengals fans watching their talented team being wasted on Andy Dalton.
NorthHawk wrote:Our OL has to get better or our window has closed.
I said last year (and was shouted down), and still believe that the Offense can't carry the team.
A couple of years ago it could in spurts, if last game is any indication, it will have trouble doing that this year.
Here's what one opponent thinks of our OL
Michael Brockers comment in PFT:
“[W]e pick up on tendencies, and when you see Marshawn probably a yard or two behind Russell and you just know that zone read scheme that they do is coming,” Brockers said. “I knocked the tackle back in the backfield so he didn’t have anywhere to go and wrapped [Lynch’s] legs up so he couldn’t keep those things going, because if you don’t he can get that yard. So we just did a great job. We did our job on that play and I think it all came out at the end.”
The penetration from Brockers forced Lynch to actually stop. By the time he got started again, Donald was on top of Lynch. And getting he job done was easier because the Seattle offensive line isn’t what it used to be.
“It’s very makeshift,” Brockers said. “You have a lot of guys who aren’t playing positions they they started when they came into the league. Like you have [J.R.] Sweezy who also was a really good guard in this league and he used to be a defensive tackle. [Justin] Britt who played tackle last year has now moved to guard, so you got a lot of people who aren’t playing a position that they started with or playing a new position and when you got things like that, you know, you got great defensive linemen I feel like we have, you have to take advantage of that. And we came out got six sacks and we got a lot of pressure on Wilson.”
So it seems our opposition think we have a makeshift OL. He's right. It's easier to play against players who are playing out of position or learning new one, and he didn't mention Gilliam who was a TE and is now learning to play RT.
Combine that with predictable play calling and you end up with an Offense going nowhere.
In his comments he also said they concentrated on making our Offense one dimensional by stopping the run.
They largely did that and in doing so got 6 sacks of an extremely mobile QB.
Let's hope they have improved enough to get rolling against the Packers. If they don't start playing better we'll end up with a top 10 draft pick in 2016.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... was-a-run/
What I said was they are not worthy of a championship team.
That means today.
Until we fall out of the top 1/4 of teams in the NFL, I will be happy
5 year rule! No calling for heads for 5 years after bringing home a Lombardi!
Even if we suck for the next 3 years I'm happy trusting the guys that built that 2013 dynamo. Winning a SB affords a staff a 5 year grace period during which they have the right to do what they see fit if things go south a little. I waited a lot more than 5 years for that Super Bowl win.
MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:Agree with both sista and bob here. I'm not thrilled about the o line approach, but I'm willing to bet they'll get better every week. Last week's game was a crucible if there ever was one; they'll learn from it.
This team is going to be able to compete with anyone the league, even this year with this offensive line, and they've got the horses to make it at least to the playoffs. I'm looking forward to watching this team as I'm sure everyone on this board is.
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