Seniority/Race Gate

[curmudgeon]

Whadda ya think? Should congress investigate?.....http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/27/cam-newton-ed-hochuli-said-hes-not-old-enough-to-get-call/

[RiverDog]

I'm not sure where the race angle comes in at.

[curmudgeon]

Some of the comments.....

[RiverDog]

Some of the comments.....

OK, I reviewed some of the comments and had to scroll way down before someone finally mentioned race. That's a real reach IMO.

But I do think that what Hochuli is alleged to have said is what actually happens in practice, ie that the older "stars" get preferential treatment over the young up and comers, and football isn't the only sport where that occurs. After becoming the league's most popular player, Michael Jordan almost never got called for traveling even though he did so often enough to pile up enough frequent flier miles to fly to the moon and back.

[c_hawkbob]

Clickbait. Shame on you crum.

[RiverDog]

This story seems to have some legs. It appears that the league is going to investigate it, punish old Ed if they believe he said it. Do they mike the refs?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13761 ... a-panthers

[Hawktawk]

Hochuli is a buffoon. I have no doubt he said it. He's one of the refs who is trying to be bigger than the game. He's been involved in some brutal calls that have cost teams games. Not sure how he is still in the league.

[kalibane]

Yeah um... this has nothing to do with Race.

I do think Hochuli said it, because it'd just be a very odd thing to make up out of the blue. The problem is what was the context? Was it deadpan serious response? Was it his sarcastic response for why he it wasn't a flag (most believable IMO)?

Unless they have audio this is impossible to substantiate.

[RiverDog]

I saw the incident Newton was referring to, and it does show him doing more than a double take at something Hoculi said, and it didn't appear to be a joking situation as Hoculi wasn't looking at Newton when he spoke and showed no smile or gesture. This causes me to believe that something inappropriate was said. I do feel that there is a seniority system at work, but that it has nothing to do with race. It's the star system, refs and the league in general is going to protect and enhance its stars, and that means veteran long term quarterbacks.

There's a lot of banter that goes on between players and officials in all sports, and that's not a bad thing. Unless there is something very compelling, I would prefer that the league let this one die whether or not they believe it to be true.

[burrrton]

Was it his sarcastic response for why he it wasn't a flag (most believable IMO)?

That was my initial impression, too- I find it easy to believe he said something like that, and impossible to believe he meant it literally, probably more of a "quit yer whining" type comment.

[NorthHawk]

I saw the incident Newton was referring to, and it does show him doing more than a double take at something Hoculi said, and it didn't appear to be a joking situation as Hoculi wasn't looking at Newton when he spoke and showed no smile or gesture. This causes me to believe that something inappropriate was said. I do feel that there is a seniority system at work, but that it has nothing to do with race. It's the star system, refs and the league in general is going to protect and enhance its stars, and that means veteran long term quarterbacks.

There's a lot of banter that goes on between players and officials in all sports, and that's not a bad thing. Unless there is something very compelling, I would prefer that the league let this one die whether or not they believe it to be true.

Hoculi said he said to Newton because he's running - or something like that.
Those that lip read suggested it was something like that from one comment I read, but with all the noise in the stadium, it's not beyond possibility that run was used and misunderstood by Newton as young.
I give the Ref the benefit of the doubt in this case.

[Hawktawk]

That was my initial impression, too- I find it easy to believe he said something like that, and impossible to believe he meant it literally, probably more of a "quit yer whining" type comment.

Whatever the context it was wildly inappropriate like a lot of Hochuli's comments. If a player believes he's been fouled the ref should either say nothing or say it wasn't a foul. I don't think its the time for a joke.
That's Hochuli though. Remember his comments about polishing balls or something like that in the Seahawks game with the Saints a couple of years ago?
What a goofball. I think his arms have swallowed part of his brain.

[c_hawkbob]

Hoculi said he said to Newton because he's running - or something like that.
Those that lip read suggested it was something like that from one comment I read, but with all the noise in the stadium, it's not beyond possibility that run was used and misunderstood by Newton as young.
I give the Ref the benefit of the doubt in this case.

That's the only explanation that makes sense. "Because you Run" or "you were a runner" can sound a lot like "you're too young" in a loud stadium.

Cam misheard and then was making light of it in the post game presser, it's a total non issue to me.

Whatever was said it sure didn't have anything to do with race ...

[RiverDog]

North Hawk says: "Hoculi said he said to Newton because he's running - or something like that.
Those that lip read suggested it was something like that from one comment I read, but with all the noise in the stadium, it's not beyond possibility that run was used and misunderstood by Newton as young.
I give the Ref the benefit of the doubt in this case."

That's the only explanation that makes sense. "Because you Run" or "you were a runner" can sound a lot like "you're too young" in a loud stadium.

Cam misheard and then was making light of it in the post game presser, it's a total non issue to me.

Whatever was said it sure didn't have anything to do with race ...

Agree with you both. You also have to consider the fact that in addition to all the stadium noise, Cam has his helmet on along with a radio device inside it. It would be pretty easy to misunderstand someone under those conditions. It happens to me all the time in my noisy workplace environment with my hearing protection on and radio blaring away.

Even if he did say something like that, I don't see it as being an earth shaking scandal. Refs in all leagues give their stars special consideration. It's a huge reach to try to infer that race had anything to do with it. I wouldn't do anything more than to advise the refs to watch what they say and tell Cam that he has more to worry about besides whining about not getting a call.

[Seahawks4Ever]

I go with the "Cam misunderstood" Ed explanation. Cam needs to worry about the next game.

AND PLEASE! Does everything have to be about RACE??

[RiverDog]

I go with the "Cam misunderstood" Ed explanation. Cam needs to worry about the next game.

AND PLEASE! Does everything have to be about RACE??

It's not about race. To his credit, Cam never even hinted that race could have been a factor. It's just a couple of posters that were trying to put 2 and 2 together.