Excusses for the Defense

[Anthony]

So one of the excuses for all the defensive collapses this year in the 4th qtr is they are on the field to long. This is false TO date we are 7th in time of possession.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats ... tics/2015/

So while you can argue perhaps in the last game they were on the field to long, as a whole you cannot. And lets look at the last game there was a 10 minute difference in time of possession. They had it longer lets look at that, now remember Well over half our cap in spent on the defense, PC has said he wants a low To offense and have a lead in the 4th qtr and let the Defense win it. That said in the last game Cincy had the ball 9:17 minutes of the 4th qtr we had it the rest, so that was far form the Defense being on the field to long. That means we had it 5:43 not as big a difference as people want to make it sound. The Defenses in ability to get off the field while in not OT was a huge factor, and to me the #1 issue why we lost that game. NOW could the offense have helped more yes, but when you give a top 5 defense a 3 score lead with 13:56 to play they should be bale to hold it period.

[Hawktawk]

You need to give it a rest Anthony. The defense got turnovers. The defense scored MOF it was the defense that staked out the 17 point lead. The game was served up on a platter to the offense to just get a few first downs and close the deal. Instead its a 2-1 TOP for the Bengals in the 4th quarter and Seattle 3 and outs its last 5 possessions including 2 in overtime. Its pathetic.You are suspending your disbelief to say it isn't.

Crappy teams point fingers and play the blame game. Great teams have 3 phases of guys who have each others 6 and pick them up when they need to. Our offense has not done that this year, sorry they bear plenty of the blame for our record.

[HumanCockroach]

So the fact that Seattle's TOP two of those three losses was greater than 8 minutes ( and the third loss it was two to one in OT and the fourth quarter) has no baring on anything? Ok. Yep, sure.

[Anthony]

You need to give it a rest Anthony. The defense got turnovers. The defense scored MOF it was the defense that staked out the 17 point lead. The game was served up on a platter to the offense to just get a few first downs and close the deal. Instead its a 2-1 TOP for the Bengals in the 4th quarter and Seattle 3 and outs its last 5 possessions including 2 in overtime. Its pathetic.You are suspending your disbelief to say it isn't.

Crappy teams point fingers and play the blame game. Great teams have 3 phases of guys who have each others 6 and pick them up when they need to. Our offense has not done that this year, sorry they bear plenty of the blame for our record.

yes you right how in the world can I expect a top ranked defense to hold a 17 pointy lead with 1 qtr to go how dare I. LOL pathetic like I said every excuse to the defense no matter what, the get a pass. I never said they do not bare some of the blame, My point is and it is a true potn that for some reason the defense no matter what always gets a pass, and yet the facts show that when our top ranked defense, the part of the team that this team is built around, were we spend most of our money fail they still get a pass and they have failed a lot.

[Anthony]

So the fact that Seattle's TOP two of those three losses was greater than 8 minutes ( and the third loss it was two to one in OT and the fourth quarter) has no baring on anything? Ok. Yep, sure.

Once again in the cincy game going into the 4th qtr with a 17 point lead the difference was less than 4 minutes. The reality is this team is built per PC on conservative offense low to get a lead and let the defense win it and they did not. I am not saying the defense is the only issue they are not, but they should not get a pass, and ye they do. IF this team was built on offense like other teams I would be all over the offense, but they are not. They are built on defense and PC wants the defense to close the game out and they have not. period. Just this year alone they are giving up 40/48 passes 84% complt in the 4th qtr but they get a pass. The Cincy comeback was the first time a team has come back that far in the 4tqtr in over 500 games and it was against the defense that this team is built around, but they get a pass, or are listed far down on the list of issues. Truth be told I put the DC first on my list followed by the OC and then PC for the BS prevent defense and offense that through out there in the 4th qtr. I might even go with OC first since Bevel does not seem to take responsibility for anything, after the SB it was Lockett, After the first 2 losses it was the Oline now it is the WR and Wilson. at least PC, Wilson and most of the players take responsibility even if they should not.

[RiverDog]

OK, Factsman. We've scored 111 points this season, with 28 of those, or a full 25% of our production, courtesy of the defense and special teams. Factor out those 28 points and we are scoring 16.6 PPG, good enough to be tied for 29th best in the league (not accounting for other team's D/ST scoring).

I don't care how good our defense is, we are not going to win more than 50% of our games with an offense that scores less than 17 points per game.

The #1 reason for our 2-3 record has been the performance of our offense and with it, the leader of all offenses, the quarterback.

[Anthony]

OK, Factsman. We've scored 111 points this season, with 28 of those, or a full 25% of our production, courtesy of the defense and special teams. Factor out those 28 points and we are scoring 16.6 PPG, good enough to be tied for 29th best in the league (not accounting for other team's D/ST scoring).

I don't care how good our defense is, we are not going to win more than 50% of our games with an offense that scores less than 17 points per game.

The #1 reason for our 2-3 record has been the performance of our offense and with it, the leader of all offenses, the quarterback.

Thats great but non of that changes the fact they had a 17 point lead with under 15 minutes to go and could not hold it. period

[RiverDog]

Thats great but non of that changes the fact they had a 17 point lead with under 15 minutes to go and could not hold it. period

But the fact is that there was more than one reason why we did not hold that 17 point lead with 15 minutes to go.

Period.

[Anthony]

But the fact is that there was more than one reason why we did not hold that 17 point lead with 15 minutes to go.

Period.

And yet all y9ou and others want to do is blame wilson and the offense, and the fact show it is as much if not more on the defense, Let me guess we los to today because of Wilson and the offense too, right? The reality is until PC gets it through his think skull that you cannot hand this defense a lead of any kind and except them to hold it we will continue to loose.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

With a nine-point lead on the line, Seattle punts twice; once before the panthers close within 3 and once after. Then I see a $10 million safety and a $10 million cornerback completely blow coverage on the Panthers most dangerous receiving option. With only 30 seconds left, there's very little chance the offense gets you a TD.

I don't understand the miscommunication on this defense; they are doing it almost every single game when it matters most, and it is between Chancellor, Thomas, and Sherman; the very three that are supposed to be the best at what they do.

The season isn't over, but my optimism is suspended until this team can play like their payroll suggests.

[obiken]

Point is 9 points is nothing against CN IF you allow Olsen to run wild. This was about the offense. Sorry we should have been able to kill the clock with a first down. I know we get beat deep but 3 and 4 we cant convert, come on. We couldn't block the stay puff marshmallow man!

[RiverDog]

And yet all y9ou and others want to do is blame wilson and the offense, and the fact show it is as much if not more on the defense, Let me guess we los to today because of Wilson and the offense too, right? The reality is until PC gets it through his think skull that you cannot hand this defense a lead of any kind and except them to hold it we will continue to loose.

I blame this one about 60/40, or thereabouts. 60% defense, 40% offense.

But the larger issue isn't assigning the majority of the blame to either the offense, the defense or special teams. The larger issue is that this team as a whole, including Russell Wilson, has lost their competitive edge. They are no longer hungry, no longer searching for respect, it's no longer us against the world. They have a sense of entitlement, that they can just show up and teams will lay down at their feet. There's really no other explanation for it, all these 4th quarter collapses.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

That's what I'm getting at; 9 points isn't safe at all, and the offense didn't come through with any offense.

Even with that, holding the Panthers to a field goal when they had to go 80 yards for a TD should have been achievable, but then they SNAFU it letting Olsen run free on the TD pass. That play shouldn't happen with this defense; not when the game is on the line.

[kalibane]

On defense the lack of depth in the secondary is killing us. Cary Williams is terrible and Shead is showing why he's a backup (that TD was his fault, he was supposed to carry Olson up the seam to Thomas).

That being said. Anthony, you need to stop with the pathological defense of Russell Wilson. I'm not going to change my tune from the fact that the Offensive Line is the absolute biggest issue on the team. And I think that Bevell's crunch time play calling is #2. But if you watched Russell Wilson tuck and run for 7 yards instead of pushing the ball down the field with 29 seconds left and think he doesn't need to step it up, you are smoking crack.

The 4 minute drill used to be one of the things this team did best. Now it's terrible at it.

[RiverDog]

But if you watched Russell Wilson tuck and run for 7 yards instead of pushing the ball down the field with 29 seconds left and think he doesn't need to step it up, you are smoking crack.

The 4 minute drill used to be one of the things this team did best. Now it's terrible at it.

I about came out of my skin when I saw Russell running the ball from his own frigging 10 needing a TD with 29 seconds. I used to think he was a very heady quarterback until he pulled that stunt. That one play epitomizes what is wrong with Russell this season.

That one almost topped Eli's brain fart in the Cowboys game earlier this season.

[Anthony]

On defense the lack of depth in the secondary is killing us. Cary Williams is terrible and Shead is showing why he's a backup (that TD was his fault, he was supposed to carry Olson up the seam to Thomas).

That being said. Anthony, you need to stop with the pathological defense of Russell Wilson. I'm not going to change my tune from the fact that the Offensive Line is the absolute biggest issue on the team. And I think that Bevell's crunch time play calling is #2. But if you watched Russell Wilson tuck and run for 7 yards instead of pushing the ball down the field with 29 seconds left and think he doesn't need to step it up, you are smoking crack.

The 4 minute drill used to be one of the things this team did best. Now it's terrible at it.

I am not defending Wilson I am trying to let a few people get that the defense is a problem this year as well. The reality is we never should have been in the situation for his to tuck and run, what would you like him to do get sacked. throw the ball to ahh no one since the announcers said no one was open? I am not saying the Wilson has not been part of the issue, to me eveyr9one has but he is far down on the list. When you consider play calling is an issue, play design is an issue, oline is an issue, Just how can you expect much more out of any QB. That is a lot to overcome for anybody. That is why if the oline was great and this was happening I would be more on Wilson, but when your oline sucks, your play calling sucks, your play design sucks what exactly can any Qb do. No QB in the league can over come all of those things. So that is why I put him near the bottom of my list but he is still on it. To me it starts with the HC, then Dc, and OC, then oline and you can keep going from there and some were below 5 is were Wilson is.

[kalibane]

Yes instead of running I would have rather him pushsed the ball down the field. Throw a ball only his guy had a chance at or away. He wasted 9 seconds and a timeout with that decision. For 7 yards it might as well have been a sack in that situation.

Regardless of the play calling he has to make a good decision that fits the game situation. If you've been reading at all you know my biggest issue is not with Wilson. But it's getting SUPER old watching you make these transparent attempts to deflect blame away from him.

Yes the defense might be an issue but with 4 minutes left its the offenses job to get 2 first downs and chew up the clock. They can't get a first down when they need to and it's a huge problem. Russell Wilson is part of that problem right now. Everyone is culpable right now. About the only guys I don't blame are Jimmy Graham and Thomas Rawls.

[RiverDog]

I am not defending Wilson I am trying to let a few people get that the defense is a problem this year as well. The reality is we never should have been in the situation for his to tuck and run, what would you like him to do get sacked. throw the ball to ahh no one since the announcers said no one was open? I am not saying the Wilson has not been part of the issue, to me eveyr9one has but he is far down on the list. When you consider play calling is an issue, play design is an issue, oline is an issue, Just how can you expect much more out of any QB. That is a lot to overcome for anybody. That is why if the oline was great and this was happening I would be more on Wilson, but when your oline sucks, your play calling sucks, your play design sucks what exactly can any Qb do. No QB in the league can over come all of those things. So that is why I put him near the bottom of my list but he is still on it. To me it starts with the HC, then Dc, and OC, then oline and you can keep going from there and some were below 5 is were Wilson is.

Stop it, Anthony! You are too defending Wilson, in just about every thread, including this one!

On first down from the 10 with 29 seconds left, even with no one open, Russell would have been better off to throw it up for grabs and hope for a defensive pass interference penalty that would have gotten the ball out close to midfield. If he was successful in drawing a penalty, it would have stopped the clock with about 20 seconds, saved a timeout, and given us at least two and probably 3 more plays, meaning he would not have had to even thrown a Hail Mary. He could have thrown another 20-30 yard pass, and if that was successful, taken one or two legitimate shots at the end zone. Tucking the ball and running had a much, much less of a chance of improving our situation.

[Anthony]

Stop it, Anthony! You are too defending Wilson, in just about every thread, including this one!

On first down from the 10 with 29 seconds left, even with no one open, Russell would have been better off to throw it up for grabs and hope for a defensive pass interference penalty that would have gotten the ball out close to midfield. If he was successful in drawing a penalty, it would have stopped the clock with about 20 seconds, saved a timeout, and given us at least two and probably 3 more plays, meaning he would not have had to even thrown a Hail Mary. He could have thrown another 20-30 yard pass, and if that was successful, taken one or two legitimate shots at the end zone. Tucking the ball and running had a much, much less of a chance of improving our situation.

Stop it River you are trying to deflect any blame form the defense in every thread including this one. Were as I said Specifically Wilson shared blame but he is down the line like 5, so nice try.

[HumanCockroach]

OK, Factsman. We've scored 111 points this season, with 28 of those, or a full 25% of our production, courtesy of the defense and special teams. Factor out those 28 points and we are scoring 16.6 PPG, good enough to be tied for 29th best in the league (not accounting for other team's D/ST scoring).

I don't care how good our defense is, we are not going to win more than 50% of our games with an offense that scores less than 17 points per game.

#1 reason for our 2-3 record has been the performance of our offense and with it, the leader of all offenses, the quarterback.

Actually, you are being generous there RD. The offense has provided less points than that, as there are multiple times the defense or STs provided the ball in FG range, the offense did nothing, and they kicked a FG. I have them at 15.6 points a game ( Less per game than the 2-14 Seahawks offense, that had Stouffer, Gelbaugh and McGwire at the reigns).

Are you worried yet Bob? Or do I need to wait three more weeks still?

[RiverDog]

Actually, you are being generous there RD. The offense has provided less points than that, as there are multiple times the defense or STs provided the ball in FG range, the offense did nothing, and they kicked a FG. I have them at 15.6 points a game ( Less per game than the 2-14 Seahawks offense, that had Stouffer, Gelbaugh and McGwire at the reigns).

Are you worried yet Bob? Or do I need to wait three more weeks still?

Yes, I realized I was being generous. But I didn't want to be accused by our stats monkey of cherry picking or adjusting a stat to fit my argument, so I tried not to corrupt it by adjusting it downward if I couldn't do the same for other teams. I will note that yesterday the defense provided the offense with two big plays, one on Earl's interception at the Panther 33 and another Kam's pick at the Carolina 39. All we could manage with that field position was two FG's, one of which Hauschka had to bang in from 50. Our offense stinks.

I haven't seen Cbob weigh in yet. I'm sure that even his bubbling, optimistic perspective has taken a pretty good hit.

[c_hawkbob]

Are you worried yet Bob? Or do I need to wait three more weeks still?

You can throw in the towel whenever it suits you Roach, you don't need my permission ... but as long as you asked ; man up buttercup, hold your water. When the math says we're out of it, we're out of it.

I'm sick to death of waiting for this O-line to gel and watching our defense evaporate in the 4th quarter too, but I can still easily see us making a move. There's a lot of season left. There's still time to get this year turned around and even if this year doesn't get turned around that doesn't mean next year has to follow the same script as this year has.

The biggest problem most teams (and all fan bases) have is the inability to resist the urge to 'blow it all up' and start over at the first hint of adversity.

5 year rule. (year 2)

[mykc14]

You can throw in the towel whenever it suits you Roach, you don't need my permission ... but as long as you asked ; man up buttercup, hold your water. When the math says we're out of it, we're out of it.

I'm sick to death of waiting for this O-line to gel and watching our defense evaporate in the 4th quarter too, but I can still easily see us making a move. There's a lot of season left. There's still time to get this year turned around and even if this year doesn't get turned around that doesn't mean next year has to follow the same script as this year has.

The biggest problem most teams (and all fan bases) have is the inability to resist the urge to 'blow it all up' and start over at the first hint of adversity.

5 year rule. (year 2)

Still with Bob on this one. I can still see this team cleaning things up and going on a run. I am not as stuck on the 5 year rule as Bob, but I do follow it pretty closely. No reason to start looking at high picks in next year's draft yet. If we have 7 losses and still look like this then I might be willing to call a SB in 2015 over officially.

[NorthHawk]

We all should have seen that this was a big possibility (a Defensive slide in efficiency).

Consider (in no particular order):
We've been the best or near the best for the last 3 years. That's very difficult to keep up even if everything stays the same.
We just lost a heartbreaking Super Bowl - some type of hangover was expected.
We lost 2 excellent coaches who might have helped mitigate the emotional letdown from the SB loss.
Players are starting to get selfish (it's human nature to want to be paid more for becoming the best).
Loss of a starting CB - has the chemistry somehow changed?
We've been at or near the top for 2 years and there is nothing more to build on - it's maintaining excellence now. That's a different mind set from striving to achieve a goal.
Has the collective chip on their shoulder been reduced by success?
The players have played a LOT of meaningful and emotional football the last two years.

There are probably more, but the point is that nothing stays the same and in order for the team to succeed, if the Defense slides even a little, the Offense has to compensate.
So far this year we haven't seen that ability from the Offense.
Hopefully it changes before it's too late.

[RiverDog]

Who said that they want to "blow it all up"? It wasn't me. Hell, I didn't even put a 5 year time frame around it. To the contrary, I think that we still have at least a 2-3 year window. I'm just pessimistic about this 2015 team. Very pessimistic. We suck.

[HumanCockroach]

You can throw in the towel whenever it suits you Roach, you don't need my permission ... but as long as you asked

out of it, we're out of it.

Where did I say to throw in the towel? I've never said any such thing in my 30+ years of watching every single game, what I said was I saw a disturbing pattern three weeks ago, that the offense was providing less than 17 points a game, which they did yet again yesterday, you said you wouldn't worry until at least week eight, I was asking if that opinion had changed is all.

[obiken]

We lose Thursday then is over and if I'm betting its a tough bet to bet against SF at this point in time. IF we can then we win, then win the following week we will be 4-4 going into Zona. Lose this and it is really over.

[RiverDog]

We lose Thursday then is over and if I'm betting its a tough bet to bet against SF at this point in time. IF we can then we win, then win the following week we will be 4-4 going into Zona. Lose this and it is really over.

With 4 team divisions and schedules backloaded with divisional matchups, it's relatively easy to climb back into the playoff hunt even if you start out at 2-4 like we have. We still have 5 out of our 6 divisional games left to play and with Arizona's loss Sunday, we're still just three games out of first place, actually just two if we beat the Cards twice and end up tied with them.

But the math isn't what worries me. It's the way we are losing these games that's causing me to be such a stick in the mud. This is a lot different team than we've seen over the past 3 years.

[obiken]

Sure, the big ones River are the mediocre teams on the road, you know as well as I do that average teams play well at home and against us!

[RiverDog]

Sure, the big ones River are the mediocre teams on the road, you know as well as I do that average teams play well at home and against us!

Even the mediocre teams, like the Vikings, the Niners, and the Browns are going to be huge challenges for this team. All they have to do is hang with us for 3 quarters.

[savvyman]

With all due respect to those who think differently - the fault for the 2-4 record is mostly attributable to the following:

50% Offense

35% Coaching

15% Defense

[savvyman]

[
You can throw in the towel whenever it suits you Roach, you don't need my permission ... but as long as you asked ; man up buttercup, hold your water. When the math says we're out of it, we're out of it.

I'm sick to death of waiting for this O-line to gel and watching our defense evaporate in the 4th quarter too, but I can still easily see us making a move. There's a lot of season left. There's still time to get this year turned around and even if this year doesn't get turned around that doesn't mean next year has to follow the same script as this year has.

The biggest problem most teams (and all fan bases) have is the inability to resist the urge to 'blow it all up' and start over at the first hint of adversity.

5 year rule. (year 2)

Bob - Just because people are pointing out the Obvious short coming in offensive and defensive execution and some terrible coaching decisions - it does not mean that they are advocating "Blowing it all up" or that they are abandoning the team - it means we support our team while keeping a critical eye and mindset for the performance and behavior that is less than championship quality.

[c_hawkbob]

Bob - Just because people are pointing out the Obvious short coming in offensive and defensive execution and some terrible coaching decisions - it does not mean that they are advocating "Blowing it all up" or that they are abandoning the team - it means we support our team while keeping a critical eye and mindset for the performance and behavior that is less than championship quality.

[savvyman]

If I am Captain Obvious then you are Captain Oblivious as just about every one of your "opinions" is as insightful as the "Man on the Bar Stool" at any strip mall tavern.

See for example how you were celebrating the victory - at Home - over a lousy Bears team (who were missing their starting QB and wide receiver) like we had cliched the home field throughout the playoffs.

Smarter minds than yourself were cautioning against your "Insightful" bar stool opinions and enthusiasm back then. See thread below.

http://www.hawkshack.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1617

Here is a piece of advice for you - In the future when you form a strong opinion about something - Go the opposite direction of what you think. More than likely this strategy will work out a lot more favorably for you.

[c_hawkbob]

Why you being such a dick?

Roach and Dog have been giving me good natured grief about being too optimistic, I was simply answering in kind. No malice intended.

Why does any of that matter at all to you?

I don't need you to tell me how to post or how to interact with other people or how to think or quite frankly, for anything at all. I'm sorry to have taken you off my ignore list.

[obiken]

Yeah Savvy you've gotten mean lately. Tone it down or else, you could be out, all the way out, know what I mean.

[RiverDog]

Yeah Savvy you've gotten mean lately. Tone it down or else, you could be out, all the way out, know what I mean.

Yea, that was an uncalled for escalation, Savvy. We've already shamed one regular, Anthony, into submission, and I have no desire to see another limit his participation.

It's going to be a long season, folks. It's been 6 years, since the Mora season, that we've had to endure this kind of adversity. I like this place, there's not a lot of traffic and my posts almost always generate a response. I don't want to end up talking to myself. I have 6 weeks of inactivity to survive.

[Seahawks4Ever]

OK, did I miss something? I didn't think Savvy was being mean at all, just sarchastic.

Hey, we do have the horses and the talent to turn this thing around and not only make the play offs but due some damage in them.

Will they pull it off? Well, that's why we watch the games.

I would say that last Sunday's loss was a team loss and should be shared equally between the offense, defense, ST, players, and coaching staff.

We don't have the depth we had the last three years, and it shows.
Every team we play is gunning for us and if they win it validates their program.
Like someone else said, many of our players are no longer as hungry as they once were.

I want so badly to see the turn around for the ages that just adds to this Seahawk team's era that will go down in NFL lore.

Go Seahawks!!!

[RiverDog]

OK, did I miss something? I didn't think Savvy was being mean at all, just sarchastic.

Making one statement would have qualified as being sarcastic. Making a number of personal insults, "Man on a Bar Stool", "smarter minds than yourself", "Captain Oblivious", and posting a link to a thread took it over the top IMO. CBob was being a smart Alec and deserved a sharp retort, but not like that. It's like answering a water balloon with a burst from a sub machine gun.

[obiken]

Yes calling C-bob captain oblivious is mean.