Official Seahawks vs Carolina Game Thread

[Hawkstar]

Damn penalties make it impossible to covert.

[curmudgeon]

Offensively offensive...

[Hawkstar]

Offensively offensive...

It's awful.

I have a sick feeling that Williams is going to get torched for a big play.

[kalibane]

Is Bevell ever going to learn to run in common sense run situations? Two first down passes in the four minute drill? Fed up with his play calling in crunch time.

[curmudgeon]

They're feelin' something in the throat...wait for it.....

[Hawkstar]

That was MONSTER Sack! Come on D!!

[c_hawkbob]

Suppose y'all are gonna blame this on the offense too?

[Hawkstar]

Suppose y'all are gonna blame this on the offense too?

Nope. That was awful

[savvyman]

The day the music Died.......

[kalibane]

It's a group effort but I damn sure blame Bevell in large part for his play calling.

[curmudgeon]

Done.

[kalibane]

I'm calling it. Lost season

[Oly]

WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF. WTF.

[c_hawkbob]

And then No E lays down ...

[The POPE]

I hope you guys like your toast burnt, cause the Hawks are toast. Been a while since I looked forward to the draft this early

[Oly]

Wilson, seriously?

[Oly]

Wilson with a stupid scramble, short pass, and then throwing it to Kearse's wrong shoulder, and then that?

F.

[Anthony]

Wilson with a stupid scramble, short pass, and then throwing it to Kearse's wrong shoulder, and then that?

F.

Right its Wilsons fault of course3 always Wilsons fault. Did it occur to you that Kearse was suppose look outside so he can get out of bounds in case he cannot get in? Of course not.

[Uppercut]

Bunch of incompetent millionaires

Fire em all

[RiverDog]

Suppose y'all are gonna blame this on the offense too?

Not entirely. 60% defense, 40% offense, or thereabouts.

This team has no heart. Someone had to take control of that game and couldn't.

[HawkDawg]

This game was the fulcrum. We've had obvious issues all year, I was expecting this game to show if we have been able to fix them or not. We have not. Can't single out the offense, defense, coaching or play calling. We lost this game as a whole. Not wanting to be a doomsdayer, but at this level of play we're not seeing any SB this year. Our guys are finally getting paid and no longer hungry...we lost the fight in the dog. Hope I'm proven wrong.

[RiverDog]

This game was the fulcrum. We've had obvious issues all year, I was expecting this game to show if we have been able to fix them or not. We have not. Can't single out the offense, defense, coaching or play calling. We lost this game as a whole. Not wanting to be a doomsdayer, but at this level of play we're not seeing any SB this year. Our guys are finally getting paid and no longer hungry...we lost the fight in the dog. Hope I'm proven wrong.

Well put. I've essentially said the same thing, but excluded the fat contracts (Russell), the holdouts (Chancellor), the threatened holdouts (Bennett) and the whining about his option not being picked up (Irvin). We're not the lean, mean machine that we were for the past 3 years. We are no longer a team. We are a collection of individuals.

[curmudgeon]

The worm has turned. Important coaches and players have left. We're now reduced to picking up leftover scraps from other teams.........

[Oly]

Right its Wilsons fault of course3 always Wilsons fault. Did it occur to you that Kearse was suppose look outside so he can get out of bounds in case he cannot get in? Of course not.

I'm not one to complain about Wilson often, so the "always" thing doesn't apply to me.

Kearse had the inside step early in the route, so that's where it should go.

But regardless, the game is on the defense and the playcalling/run game in the 4th quarter. You HAVE to be able to run out the clock there, or at least get one 1st down. Why the Hawks can't run in the 4th is baffling.

And the defense...ugh. I just don't have the energy to do anything than drink another beer.

I wouldn't expect Wilson to win the game in that position, but I wouldn't say he made a good play on a single one of those plays.

[Anthony]

I'm not one to complain about Wilson often, so the "always" thing doesn't apply to me.

Kearse had the inside step early in the route, so that's where it should go.

But regardless, the game is on the defense and the playcalling/run game in the 4th quarter. You HAVE to be able to run out the clock there, or at least get one 1st down. Why the Hawks can't run in the 4th is baffling.

And the defense...ugh. I just don't have the energy to do anything than drink another beer.

I wouldn't expect Wilson to win the game in that position, but I wouldn't say he made a good play on a single one of those plays.

Great he had the inside but does that mean that is what Wilsons was expecting. Logic dictates when running out of time you throw toward the our of bounds so the pass should have been to his out of bounds shoulder which it was. I do not disagree that Wilson made the best plays in that last 36 second he had, but I also would not say it was the worst. I think he took what he had and was called rather than making his magic. I see less and less of him calling the plays in those situations. Almost like Bevel is tired of hearing about us moving the ball when Wilson calls the plays so he is forcing Wilson to call and run what he (bevel) calls, This does tie into a little of what I have heard, that being Bevel is tired of hearing about offense moving the ball better when Wilson does his thing. This also goes with Bevel unwillingness to take any blame for anything, SB he threw Lockett under the bus, earlier in the year he threw the oline just a week ago he threw Wilson. He just never takes responsibility for anything. To me the biggest issue with this team is coaching.

[RiverDog]

I'm not one to complain about Wilson often, so the "always" thing doesn't apply to me.

Kearse had the inside step early in the route, so that's where it should go.

But regardless, the game is on the defense and the playcalling/run game in the 4th quarter. You HAVE to be able to run out the clock there, or at least get one 1st down. Why the Hawks can't run in the 4th is baffling.

And the defense...ugh. I just don't have the energy to do anything than drink another beer.

I wouldn't expect Wilson to win the game in that position, but I wouldn't say he made a good play on a single one of those plays.

We don't have a dominant offensive line that can cram the ball down our opponent's throat even when they are expecting us to run the ball. We get our rushing yards in Quarters 1-3 when there are clear, run-pass options. Our failure to gain a yard against the Rams and our failure to gain a first down against the Bengals is evidence of our inferiority up front. Teams will load up, put 8 in the box, and force us to throw. When we have a 4th quarter lead, even a 3 score lead, we are going to have to throw the ball on two out of every three downs.

[Anthony]

And the defense...ugh. I just don't have the energy to do anything than drink another beer.

I wouldn't expect Wilson to win the game in that position, but I wouldn't say he made a good play on a single one of those plays.

We don't have a dominant offensive line that can cram the ball down our opponent's throat even when they are expecting us to run the ball. We get our rushing yards in Quarters 1-3 when there are clear, run-pass options. Our failure to gain a yard against the Rams and our failure to gain a first down against the Bengals is evidence of our inferiority up front. Teams will load up, put 8 in the box, and force us to throw. When we have a 4th quarter lead, even a 3 score lead, we are going to have to throw the ball on two out of every three downs.[/quote]


I do not disagree but the problem is Wilson does not have time to do anything, and when he does rarely is anyone open. To me this is about play design and calling.

[Oly]

We don't have a dominant offensive line that can cram the ball down our opponent's throat even when they are expecting us to run the ball. We get our rushing yards in Quarters 1-3 when there are clear, run-pass options. Our failure to gain a yard against the Rams and our failure to gain a first down against the Bengals is evidence of our inferiority up front. Teams will load up, put 8 in the box, and force us to throw. When we have a 4th quarter lead, even a 3 score lead, we are going to have to throw the ball on two out of every three downs.

I see the same OL ineptitude that you do, and you're right that teams have figured the Hawks out and the they just don't have the OL skill to win matchups when the D is expecting run. I guess I was asking from a larger perspective, why can't the Hawks--who are guided by Pete's run-first philosophy--field a team capable of running in the 4th? That is the baffling part.

[RiverDog]

I see the same OL ineptitude that you do, and you're right that teams have figured the Hawks out and the they just don't have the OL skill to win matchups when the D is expecting run. I guess I was asking from a larger perspective, why can't the Hawks--who are guided by Pete's run-first philosophy--field a team capable of running in the 4th? That is the baffling part.

Well, if you want to turn the clock back, we can go back to the Percy Harvin trade and see just how Pete sold our future on a known malcontent cancer of a prick in Percy Harvin. We coughed up a first (#25 overall), a third, and a seventh for that little POS. You can't tell me that we couldn't have found a solid OL with one of those picks.

Then you can thank the Jimmy Graham trade (although Graham FINALLY did something yesterday) as we replaced a solid blocking tight end for a wide receiver that hates to block, gave up a Pro Bowl center (who by the way hasn't missed a start with the Saints) with no one in the fold to replace him, and our first round draft choice. As you so aptly put it, we are a run first team, and Pete has continually discounted the offensive line in favor of skill positions and the defense.

So strategically, there is only one person to blame for our inability to field a team capable of running the ball in the 4th quarter, and that's our walking cliché machine Pete Carroll. Although I will continue to give him his props in building this club and in no way am I jumping off the bandwagon, but you have to admit that PC and JS have made some really bad, bone head decisions that are coming back to haunt us in the form of this totally inadequate offensive line. The chickens have come home to roost.

[kalibane]

Graham has been getting open consistently. It's Russell who's missing him (or Bevell who's keeping him out of the pattern or taking him off the field). The only thing Graham needed to do better (aside from blocking which isn't going to happen and should never expect to happen) is keep working open when the play breaks down.

He did that better Sunday. I'm not saying that Graham should be going for 140 every game but he should be getting at least half of the targets he got yesterday every single game and he simply wasn't getting that. As far as I'm concerned Graham is as good as advertised, they just need to actually utilize him.

[RiverDog]

Graham has been getting open consistently. It's Russell who's missing him (or Bevell who's keeping him out of the pattern or taking him off the field). The only thing Graham needed to do better (aside from blocking which isn't going to happen and should never expect to happen) is keep working open when the play breaks down.

He did that better Sunday. I'm not saying that Graham should be going for 140 every game but he should be getting at least half of the targets he got yesterday every single game and he simply wasn't getting that. As far as I'm concerned Graham is as good as advertised, they just need to actually utilize him.

Any success that Graham has, any contribution he makes to our team, has to be measured against what it cost to acquire him, and right now, I don't think what we gave up, ie Unger and a first rounder, justifies the trade when you consider that our philosophy of being a run first, defensive orientated team. We can't run the ball when it counts, ie short yardage, 4th quarter, when teams are 80% sure that we're running, and we're going to have to do that if we want to start preserving 4th quarter leads.

[kalibane]

Yeah you can make the argument that it didn't make sense to trade for him given our team's personality.

I'm just saying that's not Graham's fault. Might be that I'm splitting hairs but it would be more accurate to say the trade was a disappointment. When you say Graham is a disappointment, it makes it seem like he came over here and pulled a Housh and that's not the case. Unlike Housh, Graham is doing what he is expected to do when he's on the field, Russ and the coaching staff just aren't getting him the ball.

For what's it's worth, I think if we had Unger and Miller it still wouldn't matter. I doubt the OL would be getting much more of a push with those two, because none of the other positions are playing up to snuff... even Okung is getting beaten far too often.

[RiverDog]

Yeah you can make the argument that it didn't make sense to trade for him given our team's personality.

I'm just saying that's not Graham's fault. Might be that I'm splitting hairs but it would be more accurate to say the trade was a disappointment. When you say Graham is a disappointment, it makes it seem like he came over here and pulled a Housh and that's not the case. Unlike Housh, Graham is doing what he is expected to do when he's on the field, Russ and the coaching staff just aren't getting him the ball.

For what's it's worth, I think if we had Unger and Miller it still wouldn't matter. I doubt the OL would be getting much more of a push with those two, because none of the other positions are playing up to snuff... even Okung is getting beaten far too often.

I don't have a problem with Graham personally. With the exception of a few occasions where he made a very feeble attempt at blocking where it was obvious that he didn't want to do what was being asked of him, I don't think his personality has been an issue. And I think he's making a valiant effort to contribute where he can.

My problem is that his style of play does not fit our philosophy. We got some great production out of Graham and what was the result: Another 4th quarter melt down. I would much rather have an injury prone Unger and that #31 overall than Jimmy Graham at his best.

The trade wouldn't have been so bad if we had at least some depth on the OL and an heir apparent ready to step in for Unger, but we didn't. We didn't go after any in free agency even though there was one or two available at a cost we could afford and we didn't draft any higher than a 4th. It was a bad decision, which coupled with the Harvin debacle, has landed us in this current predicament, ie a wanna be running team that can't get a first down to save their ass.

I disagree that had a healthy Unger and Miller available wouldn't made a difference. Miller was a great pass catching tight end and Unger a Pro Bowl center who currently hasn't missed a start for the Saints. I think that having them in the lineup would have reduced the pressure on Russell and at some point in the game, given him an opportunity to make a play.

We might not be in a better situation without Graham/with Unger and the unknown draft choice. But it is a near certainty that we wouldn't be any worse.

[kalibane]

That's a fair take. And you're right... when they made the trade I assumed that they'd be going after linemen in free agency even if were just veteran cast offs like Donald Penn who weren't great by any stretch but at least had an idea of how to block at the NFL level. Although I don't share your assessment of Miller. He was once a really good receiving TE and still has good hands but he isn't a problem for defenses to deal with at this stage in his career.

Call me fatalistic but heading into camp I had a bad feeling about the season in general because of the lack of attention to the OL. I think the team can still turn it around and make the playoffs, they aren't contenders though. And what I'm hoping at this point is we really feel the benefit of Graham next year when presumably the line will have been shored up and the longer offseason will get guys back to 100% health.

Regardless of the cost, the offense has been needing a reliable, big, athletic receiver for a very long time. It was unreasonable to believe that the defense could just keep being the #1 scoring defense year after year. So at this point I'm still okay with the Graham trade. I just hope the front office gets it's priorities together and gets Russell some protection.

[RiverDog]

For me, my fatalistic pessimism started with the SB loss. That was one of the most devastating losses in professional sports history, and given today's pampered, overpaid athletes, it was a monumental task to get them all back on track and re-focused. Pete probably should have fired Darrell Bevell the week after the SB. Some bad decisions are of such magnitude and with such dire consequences they require a head to roll, and that one certainly qualified. But I can understand why he didn't, and part of me admires Pete for taking the blame and standing by his man. I wish every authority figure showed the degree of loyalty Pete showed towards Bevell. But it didn't fly well with the team. In their eyes, a player makes a mistake like that and they'd be on the red eye out of SeaTac the next morning.

Shortly thereafter, we had Michael Bennett threatening a holdout, Bruce Irvin whining about the team not picking up his option, all the rumors and speculation swirling around the Russell Wilson contract negotiations that drug out until right before the start of camp, and worst of all, the Kam Chancellor holdout. We are no longer a team, we're a collection of individuals all with their own selfish interests that are unwilling to make any personal sacrifices for the team.

Add that to the administrative mistake of not paying enough attention to our offensive line and the depletion of resources resulting from one horrendous trade and another ill advised one and you have a recipe for a disaster.