Official Seahawks vs Carolina POST Game Thread

[savvyman]

Sunday, October 18, 2015 - The Day the Music Died..........

[Seahawks4Ever]

I kept saying there was going to be a price to be paid for throwing away all of those 1st. and 2nd. rd. draft choices. I also said (as well as others) that ignoring the O-Line was very stupid.

Kris Richard is NO Dan Quinn, maybe Pete should not have looked in house. He had the guy in Ken Norton but let him go to another team.

Darrell Bevell has GOT TO GO.

I am calling it, Pete has taken this team as far as he can, time to bring in a HC who knows the offensive side of the ball. Pete ONLY knows defense and we were fortunate the last two years when we HAD the best defense in the league.

Stick a fork in our Seahawks, they are DONE! I am SICK of hearing the EXCUSES, especially from Pete Carroll.

[curmudgeon]

RIP. The dynasty is over.......

[obiken]

I kept saying there was going to be a price to be paid for throwing away all of those 1st. and 2nd. rd. draft choices. I also said (as well as others) that ignoring the O-Line was very stupid.

Kris Richard is NO Dan Quinn, maybe Pete should not have looked in house. He had the guy in Ken Norton but let him go to another team.

Darrell Bevell has GOT TO GO.

I am calling it, Pete has taken this team as far as he can, time to bring in a HC who knows the offensive side of the ball. Pete ONLY knows defense and we were fortunate the last two years when we HAD the best defense in the league.

Stick a fork in our Seahawks, they are DONE! I am SICK of hearing the EXCUSES, especially from Pete Carroll.

Every point you made is spot on, and has been made you, me, and others. WTF were we thinking in trying the great experiment of DL converted into OL???!! I Would rather go the other direction. As far as PC I made that point on my 10 year thread and you would have thought I crushed their new little puppy. Its not Bevel his a convenient scape goat. Norton I said the same damn thing! In the end the Offense lost this game. Ok ALL the experts will focus on the Defense but you cant get a first down with RW, ML, JG, ect ect. Come one.

[Hawk Sista]

Whose puppy did you crush? What... Are you 5?

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Posted this in the defense excuses thread; sorry for the repeat, but I am so disappointed with what I just saw.

With a nine-point lead on the line, Seattle punts twice; once before the panthers close within 3 and once after. Then I see a $10 million safety and a $10 million cornerback completely blow coverage on the Panthers most dangerous receiving option. With only 30 seconds left, there's very little chance the offense gets you a TD.

I don't understand the miscommunication on this defense; they are doing it almost every single game when it matters most, and it is between Chancellor, Thomas, and Sherman; the very three that are supposed to be the best at what they do.

The season isn't over, but my optimism is suspended until this team can play like their payroll suggests.

[obiken]

Whose puppy did you crush? What... Are you 5?

Bottom line HS, I tried to say that PC may be done, and SFE is making the same point. Sorry. Its time to call out PC on the OL. Its a failed experiment. What the hell was he thinking. I had a friend who knew John Madden, and I asked him, IF you were to build a team from scratch, would start on the OL or the DL. Madden said the OL. I said, but coach, if you cant stop anybody what good is it? He said IF you cant block anybody your not going anywhere. WE are not going anywhere Sister and who's fault is that????

[RiverDog]

Bottom line HS, I tried to say that PC may be done, and SFE is making the same point. Sorry. Its time to call out PC on the OL. Its a failed experiment. What the hell was he thinking. I had a friend who knew John Madden, and I asked him, IF you were to build a team from scratch, would start on the OL or the DL. Madden said the OL. I said, but coach, if you cant stop anybody what good is it? He said IF you cant block anybody your not going anywhere. WE are not going anywhere Sister and who's fault is that????

That's true. The chickens have come home to roost.

Go back to the Percy Harvin and Jimmy Graham trades if you need something to hang on Pete. Two #1's, a #3, and a #7. We could have used those draft choices to find an OL or two. Instead, he shops for OL in the bargain basement. Hell, he could have had Mathis this season had he made it a priority.

[Anthony]

Every point you made is spot on, and has been made you, me, and others. WTF were we thinking in trying the great experiment of DL converted into OL???!! I Would rather go the other direction. As far as PC I made that point on my 10 year thread and you would have thought I crushed their new little puppy. Its not Bevel his a convenient scape goat. Norton I said the same damn thing! In the end the Offense lost this game. Ok ALL the experts will focus on the Defense but you cant get a first down with RW, ML, JG, ect ect. Come one.

Okay so at what point does the defense get any blame for a loss. Seems like they get a pass every week, no matter how big a lead they have going into the 4th you and a select few always blame the offense. You know what this team is built on defense, you and others always said we win with Defense,. PC has said he wants a lead in the 4th and let the D win it, most of our money is spent on the D. Yet they get a pass. At what point do they get any blame to you? Seems to me that when every loss we have had this year we had a lead and in some cases 2 score or more lead going into the 4th they should get blame. But you give them a pass. Sorry the experts will focus on the defense because that is why we lost.

[Anthony]

That's true. The chickens have come home to roost.

Go back to the Percy Harvin and Jimmy Graham trades if you need something to hang on Pete. Two #1's, a #3, and a #7. We could have used those draft choices to find an OL or two. Instead, he shops for OL in the bargain basement. Hell, he could have had Mathis this season had he made it a priority.

I agree with you except I am not convinced they would have drafted oline. That is a huge problem.

[Zorn76]

Sigh.

[kalibane]

Those choices might haunt us but that's not the reason why the O-Line is bad. Not having a first round pick didn't make them wait until the 4th round to draft a lineman. Practically every year we have been in position to draft a more highly regarded offensive lineman and instead we chose to trade down and wait.

[FolkCrusader]

Reading all the overreaction actually helps my down mood. Once again we failed to finish after a pretty decent game. Both teams played very well but in the end Cam was able to complete passes to Ted Ginn and a Rookie who dropped more than he caught. I don't even want to discuss the broken play to Olsen. Kearse was completely taken out of the game by Norman, Doug was barely a factor, some great completions to Graham. Russell and the O got outgunned at the end of the game, again. Defense was much weaker than we are used to at the end of the game.

Blame it on the coordinators if you want, but what I see is players thinking someone else is going to make the play. It's been a heck of a schedule. 10-6 or 11-5 is still a real possibility. None of these games have been blowouts. Forgive if I don't throw the season out over this one.

[mykc14]

Stick a fork in this team if you must but why all the doom and gloom? We are not out of it yet, yeah we need to get much better soon (like Thursday). If we keep playing like this and have 7 losses then it might be time to start looking at next year, but I don't understand the rush. Give them a chance to figure it out. New DC, new line, new weapon. Come on, "the dynasty is over." Give me a break. Even missing the playoffs this year (not saying we are) wouldn't mean the dynasty is over. This could be the beginning of the end. Maybe the SB bowl loss, big contracts, missed/traded draft picks, etc will bite this team and lead to it's eventual demise, but why in the f are some in such a hurry to call it? Would it surprise anybody if this team won out or went 9-1 the rest of the way?

[Anthony]

I do not believe we are done even if we do not make the playoffs. However I am concerned with the fact Bevel will still be here. And while Great we will get to draft some players you and I both know any meaningful draft picks will go to defense again. That might be good maybe they can get back to being a defense you can turn the lead over to in the 4th and win, but they are not know. To over come that you need an innovative offense and we do not have that unless Wilson is making magic.

[RiverDog]

Stick a fork in this team if you must but why all the doom and gloom? We are not out of it yet, yeah we need to get much better soon (like Thursday). If we keep playing like this and have 7 losses then it might be time to start looking at next year, but I don't understand the rush. Give them a chance to figure it out. New DC, new line, new weapon. Come on, "the dynasty is over." Give me a break. Even missing the playoffs this year (not saying we are) wouldn't mean the dynasty is over. This could be the beginning of the end. Maybe the SB bowl loss, big contracts, missed/traded draft picks, etc will bite this team and lead to it's eventual demise, but why in the f are some in such a hurry to call it?

Well, I, for one, haven't declared the dynasty as being over. We still have a great core on defense and Russell Wilson is going to be a great quarterback. We're going to be contenders for at least the next two or three years no matter how this season ends.

But I am less optimistic with this 2015 team and this season. We are not going anywhere until this team finds it's heart. Right now, they have none.

[Zorn76]

This is a TEAM loss, fellas.
Both the offense and defense have Stunk at crucial times in the 4th qt this year.

midway through the 3rd qt, we have a 20-7 lead.
Carolina then outscores us 20-3 the rest of the way.

Offense scored 3, defense surrendered 20.
That's equal crap play for both units.

[Anthony]

This is a TEAM loss, fellas.
Both the offense and defense have Stunk at crucial times in the 4th qt this year.

midway through the 3rd qt, we have a 20-7 lead.
Carolina then outscores us 20-3 the rest of the way.

Offense scored 3, defense surrendered 20.
That's equal crap play for both units.

That I can agree with and to me that makes this a coaching issue first and foremost

[obiken]

That's fine but the Offense cannot grind out 3rd downs when it counts. We are 1 bad play away from being 1-4. No, its not over but we will need some help. We cant keep dropping home games to good team and then hoping to beat mediocre or bad teams on the road.

[Anthony]

That's fine but the Offense cannot grind out 3rd downs when it counts. We are 1 bad play away from being 1-4. No, its not over but we will need some help. We cant keep dropping home games to good team and then hoping to beat mediocre or bad teams on the road.

You could argue we are one Defensive stop or offensive first down form being 5-1 too.

[obiken]

Ok, but our defense is what it is they are not shutdown anymore. The reserves are gone. That's the secret to the Pats, they pay a franchise QB then get in later rounds they get WR's that don't drop balls; OLinemen that can block, and guys like Chung who can hit. Staying on top is much harder than getting there.

[Hawk Sista]

Don't forget ST too.

I'm not throwing in the towel just yet, and I'm not at all surprised by the ship jumping by the fans and the media; hell - it started in some cases after we lost to the Rams. "The dynasty is over," "put a fork in em" etc... Sigh! This team is a good team, but they are not a great finishing team right now. This is a total 180 from what we've seen the last 3 years. Our D allowing 4 scoring 80 yard scoring drives (1st time in 15 YEARS we've done that at home) and the "miscommunication" between the members of our very expensive LOB is mind boggling. Stunning.

Again, there is enough blame to go around. Until they got into the 4th Q, they were solid across the board & held a nice 9 point lead. Then once again, in hugely puzzling fashion, they simply couldn't convert a 1st down on O or get em the efff off of our field on 3rd down. This has been the repeated refrain in each of our 4 losses. 4th quarter melt-downs x 4 or we'd be 6 & 0 or 5 & 1. It's really very puzzling.

The o-line is what they are (which is admittedly is not a great position group), but to hang these 4 losses on them is not acknowledging what is going on across the board. The Hawks simply are not finishing games in all three phases of the game.

Go Hawks.

[depaashaas]

Well its bit early to push panic button but I did put my chair bit closer to the button. I think we are still in good shape...if bevel gets fired tomorrow. I don't know if he has different game plans for each quarter but if he does he needs to throw the one he has for 4th quarter and overtime away. It is mind boggling that they can do after struggling in 1st half coming out of the gates in 3rd quarter just to play possum in 4th quarter. This team used to be able to put up yards and TD's in 4rth quarter and besides the rams game all this team has done in 4th quarter this season is scored a single field goal. Crazier in the last 5 loses counting the SB they have lost 4 games against currently undefeated teams and its just to bad they could have won all those. To me it's the play calling last week and this week they went to read zone just to abandon it as soon as we get the lead or we go into 4th quarter. It's pretty easy to prepare for Hawks offense in 4th quarter, they run, run, pass 95% of the time so you plan for that, if they make pass play let them have that, next time they will run again and what in the world was that what bevell thinking calling that stupid lateral fake and then to Lynch on a 2-20? First of all that whole lateral pass thing you should burn that whole section of the playbook bevell. Don't get me wrong defense don't get a complete pass but the defense had 2 interceptions this week and all bevell got out of it was 2 field goals, and with the schedule becoming somewhat easier Pete will fail to see that bevell is the weak link here

[RiverDog]

...Staying on top is much harder than getting there.

Yep. History is strewn with one time SB winners.

But as hard as I have been on Pete, Russell, and the Hawks, I truly believe that our window has not closed. I do not believe that this team will get to the playoffs or if we do, we won't go very far, but I honestly do believe that we will be back in 2016. And who knows, I could be wrong about the 2015 Hawks.

[Anthony]

Don't forget ST too.

I'm not throwing in the towel just yet, and I'm not surprised by the ship jumping. The dynasty is over, put a fork in em etc... Sigh! This team is a good team, not a great team right now. Our D allowing 4 scoring 80 yard scoring drives (1st time in 15 YEARS we've done that at home) and the "miscommunication" between the members of our very expensive LOB is mind boggling. Stunning.

Again, there is enough blame to go around. Until they got into the 4th Q, they were solid across the board & held a nice 9 point lead. Then once again, in hugely puzzling fashion, they simply can't convert a 1st down on O or get em the efff off of our field on 3rd down. This has been the repeated refrain in each of our 4 losses. 4th quarter melt-downs x 4 or we'd be 6 & 0 or 5 & 1. It's really very puzzling.

The o-line is what they are (which is admittedly is not a great position group), but to hang these 4 losses on them is not acknowledging what is going on across the board. The Hawks simply are not finishing games in all three phases of the game.

Go Hawks.

agreed on all fronts but the oline is part and a huge part of the reason the offense cannot finish.

[SalmonBB]

Thought the Seahawks actually played a pretty good game tonight. We played to win. We just lost against another good football team. Doesn't hurt nearly as much as last week, when we flat out handed the Bengals the game.

As far as stuff to complain about, I don't have much. We got burned a couple times on D (this is the only year where I remember Sherm, ET, and Kam missing assignments like this). It sure woulda' been nice to get a first down on that possession right before the Panthers marched 80 yards to bring it within 3, too. Also, I was a little upset that the refs didn't call a couple sideline maulings; on the flip side, it was nice to see 'em let the players play. RW was rushed, and while many might blame the O-Line, teams have learned that the way to contain RW is to bring more defenders his way ... so I think him being rushed may have less to do with our O-Line and more to do with defenses placing more emphasis on rushing him. Those middle passes have been a bane for our D for years, but I don't think we were playing prevent (something I would not be happy about had we been doing it).

I could try to blame, but it all falls short. I feel good that our team put forth a fourth quarter effort tonight, rather than just giving the game away in the 4th. They played hard-nosed football. We just got beat.

I'm not throwin' in the towel. I believe we still have a very good team. We could still turn this around. I'm gonna' believe.

GO SEAHAWKS!!!

[Hawk Sista]

Sherm was the only member of the LOB who attended camp, played in the pre-season and got reps in this new coaching system. Maybe that has something to do with it??? Cary is doing ok, he's still learning. Earl is finally starting to look like Earl (save the final minutes). I really think Kam's absence has played a role.

And I never said the o-line wasn't a problem. I said they aren't the only problem. The o-line is absutely a problem. RW could also have engineered another 1st down or two. It's been 15 years since any hawk's team (let alone the vaunted LOB) allowed FOUR 80 yard drives. They fell apart in the 4th quarter again. One can't overlook it.

[Zorn76]

I love your spirit, SBB. I really do.

But with all do respect, we played a Horrible 4th qt...again.

It's not so much that we've lost to some good teams this season (GB, Cincy, Carolina), it's How were doing it.

The Seahawks, right now, have lost their 2nd half mojo.

Their confidence starts to fade when momentum changes in the final quarter, instead of remaining focused on what they need to do to finish games.

We are not out of it yet by any means. But the margin for error is shrinking by the week. If it takes 10 wins to make the playoffs, which it usually does in the NFC, that means 7-2 the rest of the way. Nothing right now is a gimme, including our game in SF on Thursday.

One game at a time.

That's all we can do.

Go Seahawks!!!

[RiverDog]

Special teams have been pretty good this season. Hauschka hasn't missed a kick, including 50 yarders, lots of touchbacks on kickoffs, and Ryan and the punt coverage have been decent. Lockett has two kick return TD'S. The only phuck up was in OT vs. the Rams. IMO special teams have been the least of our problems.

[Anthony]

Special teams have been pretty good this season. Hauschka hasn't missed a kick, including 50 yarders, lots of touchbacks on kickoffs, and Ryan and the punt coverage have been decent. Lockett has two kick return TD'S. The only phuck up was in OT vs. the Rams. IMO special teams have been the least of our problems.

I can agree with this.

[obiken]

Sherm was the only member of the LOB who attended camp, played in the pre-season and got reps in this new coaching system. Maybe that has something to do with it??? Cary is doing ok, he's still learning. Earl is finally starting to look like Earl (save the final minutes). I really think Kam's absence has played a role.

And I never said the o-line wasn't a problem. I said they aren't the only problem. The o-line is absutely a problem. RW could also have engineered another 1st down or two. It's been 15 years since any hawk's team (let alone the vaunted LOB) allowed FOUR 80 yard drives. They fell apart in the 4th quarter again. One can't overlook it.

Great points do they run the ball with Wagner in there, like they ran it?

[Hawk Sista]

I dunno, probably not. Still - Injuries happen and we have been relatively lucky in that regard. When Kam was gone, he was the heart of the D, now Bobby is. I think it's a combo of the impact of a unique and tuff super bowl loss, new D coaches, lack of time together with said new coaches and a puzzling loss of confidence. Those close games have been ours over the last few years, now we are choking in crunch time. (Yes, I know that the O (the line, RW etc) have to wear this loss too. Equally so. It's just a tuff paradigm shift to choke down.

[HumanCockroach]

Having been at the game, and watching from above, I can honestly say, I am Damn near freaking out in regards to the Hawks QB, and defense ( the pass defense in particular). Russ left probably 400 yards and 4 TDS on that field, and I am NOT including the overthrow to Lockett.

The defensive backfield as well as the LB core looks like a comedy of errors in coverage, with it seems no one either knowing their assignment, or at least not communicating. Lots, and I mean LOTS of confusion in the fourth quarter.

And Russ, if the team wanted Jackson out there ( he of the I will not throw it no matter how open the receiver is) he would be starting boss, and he would be a lot cheaper. Whatever that mental hurdle is, that is lingering, we forgive you man, now please, go back to what you were, you weren't terrified of throwing a pick in the fourth quarter, the guy that went for the jugular, this version, the "safe" you, isn't cutting it. Throw five picks, then win the game, that's fine, because you won the game!

[Anthony]

Having been at the game, and watching from above, I can honestly say, I am Damn near freaking out in regards to the Hawks QB, and defense ( the pass defense in particular). Russ left probably 400 yards and 4 TDS on that field, and I am NOT including the overthrow to Lockett.

The defensive backfield as well as the LB core looks like a comedy of errors in coverage, with it seems no one either knowing their assignment, or at least not communicating. Lots, and I mean LOTS of confusion in the fourth quarter.

And Russ, if the team wanted Jackson out there ( he of the I will not throw it no matter how open the receiver is) he would be starting boss, and he would be a lot cheaper. Whatever that mental hurdle is, that is lingering, we forgive you man, now please, go back to what you were, you weren't terrified of throwing a pick in the fourth quarter, the guy that went for the jugular, this version, the "safe" you, isn't cutting it. Throw five picks, then win the game, that's fine, because you won the game!

Of course LOL!! what a surprise 400 yards and 4 tds yeah right. can you say agenda and BS I can LOL predictable

[savvyman]

Having been at the game, and watching from above, I can honestly say, I am Damn near freaking out in regards to the Hawks QB, and defense ( the pass defense in particular). Russ left probably 400 yards and 4 TDS on that field, and I am NOT including the overthrow to Lockett.

The defensive backfield as well as the LB core looks like a comedy of errors in coverage, with it seems no one either knowing their assignment, or at least not communicating. Lots, and I mean LOTS of confusion in the fourth quarter.

And Russ, if the team wanted Jackson out there ( he of the I will not throw it no matter how open the receiver is) he would be starting boss, and he would be a lot cheaper. Whatever that mental hurdle is, that is lingering, we forgive you man, now please, go back to what you were, you weren't terrified of throwing a pick in the fourth quarter, the guy that went for the jugular, this version, the "safe" you, isn't cutting it. Throw five picks, then win the game, that's fine, because you won the game!

Secondary not playing up to prior years standards? Could part of the reason is that their coach is no longer coaching them?

Linebackers not playing up to pass years standards? Could part of the reason is that their former coach is no longer coaching them?

The previous Defensive coordinators for the Seahawk's always spent each game upstairs where they called the plays from. Kris Richards stated that he wanted to be on the sidelines during the game where he calls the plays. Maybe we are also losing something with the Defensive coordinator not having the big entire field of vision picture perspective of the game that you get when you are sitting above the game - like from your perspective today?

[savvyman]

I saw this stat from Greg Bell's twitter:

Total yards after #Seahawks took 23-14 lead w/ 11 minutes left until CAR took 27-23 lead with :32 left: Seattle 15, Carolina 167.


I would love to see this statistic for all of the four losses this year - Specifically the total offensive yards, 3rd down conversion rate and number of 3 and outs - from the point of our biggest lead in these 4 losses to the end of each game.

I bet the results would be truly Horrific - and I really mean Horrific.

[Anthony]

I saw this stat from Greg Bell's twitter:

Total yards after #Seahawks took 23-14 lead w/ 11 minutes left until CAR took 27-23 lead with :32 left: Seattle 15, Carolina 167.


I would love to see this statistic for all of the four losses this year - Specifically the total offensive yards, 3rd down conversion rate and number of 3 and outs - from the point of our biggest lead in these 4 losses to the end of each game.

I bet the results would be truly Horrific - and I really mean Horrific.

I would agree and I would bet the play calling is the biggest issue. When it counts we cannot run the ball, we cannot protect the QB or get open. Once again I think it is on coaching and play call and design

[Hawk Sista]

That's a good point. Other than luck, what has changed?

Defense
1. New DC (the old one was SPECIAL)
2. New LB coach (the old one was SPECIAL)
3. Cary Williams
4. No Jeremy Lane
5. Earl didn't practice until the season started
6. Kam missed late July - late September
7. Depth
8. Finish-ability
9. Communication
10. Swagger

Offense
1. Carp
2. A healthy Beast
3. Unger (though we won all the games he missed last year)
4. Jimmy & his impact
5. Balls (as in nads)
6. Finish-ability
7. Swagger

As a team, I'd say we've lost our identity. Who knows how much of the above (& the many other factors) impact the results? Is it also partly psychological? Just because they all cried together in Hawaii doesn't mean they are over it. Who the eff knows? It surely ain't me. But I can say I respect Pete for owning the slow start as the problems have eeked into each of the 3 phases and he is, after all, the chief. Fingers crossed. Go Hawks!!

[Hawk Sista]

I saw this stat from Greg Bell's twitter:

Total yards after #Seahawks took 23-14 lead w/ 11 minutes left until CAR took 27-23 lead with :32 left: Seattle 15, Carolina 167.


I would love to see this statistic for all of the four losses this year - Specifically the total offensive yards, 3rd down conversion rate and number of 3 and outs - from the point of our biggest lead in these 4 losses to the end of each game.

I bet the results would be truly Horrific - and I really mean Horrific.

That's not what we've become accustomed to. It's what we were used to for nearly 36 damned years before 2012. Crazy turn of events and it's tuff to handle that stat line.

[HumanCockroach]

Telling you what I saw, first hand Anthony, you want to ignore it? Go ahead, I could give a flying f#@k . Truth is, Wilson looked scared to throw the football, afraid more of a turnover, than a loss. There were receivers open ALL day, on EVERY play, and I'm not talking about 5 yard slants and crossing routes, though there was a ton of those as well. There's no "agenda", I want the Wilson that made those throws, found ways to win, no matter how he has played up until then. I'm begging for him to get past that mental hurdle, not trashing him, ala you with a former Seahawk QB until he does expect more of the same results.

In fact there were so many of them, that multiple fans were arguing on which open receiver he should have thrown to but missed for the majority of plays. That is the "facts" and nothing but the facts, hell it got to the point where Bevfool was being given a fricken pass.