Trade Deadline Tuesday

[NorthHawk]

Jason La Canfora said that the Seahawks are looking for starting OL and they are offering WR depth.
I wonder who that depth might be? Could it be Matthews, Richardson, Lockette? How about TE Luke Willson?
On the other hand, the Browns are said to be talking about moving Center Alex Mack and LT Joe Thomas.
Might there be something that could be done there?
How about a draft pick and Okung for Thomas? Thomas is 31, but he's still playing pretty well and isn't as injury prone.
I suspect it would depend on if the Browns could sign him long term.

[Hawkstar]

Jason La Canfora said that the Seahawks are looking for starting OL and they are offering WR depth.
I wonder who that depth might be? Could it be Matthews, Richardson, Lockette? How about TE Luke Willson?
On the other hand, the Browns are said to be talking about moving Center Alex Mack and LT Joe Thomas.
Might there be something that could be done there?
How about a draft pick and Okung for Thomas? Thomas is 31, but he's still playing pretty well and isn't as injury prone.
I suspect it would depend on if the Browns could sign him long term.

I'd take Mack and Thomas in a heartbeat - get them after todays game and give them the Bye week to get acquainted with the Hawks O.

A fan can dream...

[Zorn76]

It's going to be interesting to see if a deal is worked out for our team in time.

If they're trying, they must be working the phones like mad right about now.

Thing is, I don't know if we have enough to offer, really. Okung is decent - when healthy - and could draw some interest. Luke Wilson has upside that teams may want, I dunno. There's also some guys on our team that remain unproven, which is typical for any franchise (Richardson, Mathews, etc). In those cases, you're looking at some very low draft capital in return.

Thomas is an interesting thought, if for no other reason than the Seahawks are still (in theory, anyway) a SB calibre team for the next couple of years. 2015 may not work out to be that type of season, but the issues we have are correctable overall.

[Hawkstar]

I just heard on the radio that Vernon Davis has been traded from the 9'ers the Donkeys.

Not much left of the 9'er rivalry...

[Hawkstar]

I just heard on the radio that Vernon Davis has been traded from the 9'ers the Donkeys.

Not much left of the 9'er rivalry...

Link - Elway tweeted it as well.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14039 ... er-broncos

[HumanCockroach]

https://youtu.be/mFNffWKdoRk

No more of this..

[RiverDog]

Jason La Canfora said that the Seahawks are looking for starting OL and they are offering WR depth.
I wonder who that depth might be? Could it be Matthews, Richardson, Lockette? How about TE Luke Willson?
On the other hand, the Browns are said to be talking about moving Center Alex Mack and LT Joe Thomas.
Might there be something that could be done there?
How about a draft pick and Okung for Thomas? Thomas is 31, but he's still playing pretty well and isn't as injury prone.
I suspect it would depend on if the Browns could sign him long term.

Well, we know for sure it won't be Lockette. Richardson is damaged goods, so I'd rule him out, too. He's going to have to prove himself all over again before anyone's going to risk very much in a trade. That leaves Luke and Mathews, neither of which would hurt us that much to lose.

I'd jump at the chance to get Joe Thomas but I doubt we could afford him even if the Browns were to bite on a relatively reasonable offer, but who knows.

[NorthHawk]

Thomas said today he doesn't want to leave, but it's not up,to,him.
Mack, on the other hand wanted to leave a couple of years ago but has a no trade clause - or at least he has to approve the trade. He could help up the middle of the OL as well as being a settling influence that might be missing without Unger.

[c_hawkbob]

Well, we know for sure it won't be Lockette. Richardson is damaged goods, so I'd rule him out, too. He's going to have to prove himself all over again before anyone's going to risk very much in a trade. That leaves Luke and Mathews, neither of which would hurt us that much to lose.

I'd jump at the chance to get Joe Thomas but I doubt we could afford him even if the Browns were to bite on a relatively reasonable offer, but who knows.

Obviously it won't be E, but No E will not be one of those young WR's either, everyone else is game.

No idea how we'll manage it, buy I'll be surprised if we don't trade for an O-lineman before the deadline.

[HumanCockroach]

The dollars of a trade for either Mack or Thomas makes it damn near impossible. Who is Seattle going to trade to make it fit into the salary cap? Graham? Wilson? Thomas? Sherman? Wagner? Lynch? I just don't see them doing that. If they do trade for an o line player, it almost has to be a young "bust" player just to get it to work with the money left available for the season.

[kalibane]

Okung and a WR for Thomas. I'd do it.

[RiverDog]

Okung and a WR for Thomas. I'd do it.

Okung is a free agent after this season. I don't know why they'd trade an All Pro, perhaps HOF LT, for an injury prone very average LT, plus we don't have a WR on our roster, with the possible exception of No E, that would IMO be decent enough to get Cleveland to bite. Thomas can probably play at least another 3-4 years at a high level.

On MNF last night, they were discussing how the Browns were shopping Thomas and were looking for the best offer featuring multiple draft picks. IMO we're probably looking at something at least along the lines of what it took to get Percy Harvin here, ie a #1 and a #3, plus a younger player with a decent upsides, perhaps someone like Marsh or Clark.

[kalibane]

I didn't say it was realistic but someone asked how to get salaries to match. Okung is the logical player if you're getting Thomas. Also if you're trading Thomas it makes sense to get a Tackle in return. Obviously there would have to be draft pick compensation in such a deal as well.

[RiverDog]

I didn't say it was realistic but someone asked how to get salaries to match. Okung is the logical player if you're getting Thomas. Also if you're trading Thomas it makes sense to get a Tackle in return. Obviously there would have to be draft pick compensation in such a deal as well.

But Okung isn't under contract, or won't be by the end of the year. Why would they trade for someone that's going to be a free agent in a few months?

[kalibane]

Look, trading draft picks mid season for Joe Thomas is a win now move. A bad team likely won't want to give up first round + other picks for him when they'll be drafting high and need a transformational player. So now Cleveland has to find a playoff caliber team with room to fit Joe Thomas under their cap, not exactly easy. Also if they are trading Thomas they are probably trying to dump salary so Okung actually helps them do that while at the same time giving them an 8 week try out for a cheaper LT option to replace Thomas instead of the crapshoot that is college LT evaluation.

I don't think Thomas will be moved period but it's not even close to the craziest trade I've seen.

[NorthHawk]

I could see them (the Browns) trading for Okung and our 1st pick because Thomas is 31 and approaching the end of his career, and Okung is 28.
It would depend on if they could reach an agreement in an extension for Okung, though otherwise it wouldn't make as much sense.

I don't see it happening, though.

[RiverDog]

Look, trading draft picks mid season for Joe Thomas is a win now move. A bad team likely won't want to give up first round + other picks for him when they'll be drafting high and need a transformational player. So now Cleveland has to find a playoff caliber team with room to fit Joe Thomas under their cap, not exactly easy. Also if they are trading Thomas they are probably trying to dump salary so Okung actually helps them do that while at the same time giving them an 8 week try out for a cheaper LT option to replace Thomas instead of the crapshoot that is college LT evaluation.

I don't think Thomas will be moved period but it's not even close to the craziest trade I've seen.

If they could agree on a reasonable extension with Okung, then maybe.

Thomas is 31, but offensive linemen have a much better chance at remaining competitive into their late 30's than do skill position players. How old was Bruce Mathews when he was still making Pro Bowls? If we could make a Percy Harvin-style trade, ie a #1/#3/#7, plus someone like Okung, and make Thomas's salary fit, then I'm all for it.

[NorthHawk]

On the other hand, we could go the new OC route next year.
There are at least 2 that might be of interest in Philbin (former OC of the Packers) or Whisenhut who was just fired by the Titans.

[HumanCockroach]

I don't see either of those OCs meshing with Carolls
philosophy. Do you?

[NorthHawk]

Probably not, but they are options I suppose.
I think the real issue would be finding someone who is willing to be the OC, but subservient to the OL coach/Assistant HC, who is responsible for the run game as well.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that's a common coaching configuration.

[c_hawkbob]

I think Whisenhunt's offensive philosophy meshes perfectly with Carroll. He's all about a strong running game, TE's and some really off the wall trick plays thrown in to keep defenses off balance. Sounds right up Pete's alley to me.

[HumanCockroach]

I suppose, just always viewed Wisenhunt as a coach that preferred a statue at qb with a deep passing game, and an approach of throwing the ball deep, using the running game solely to set that up ( ala Rothlisberger, Warner and Rivers) kind of feel like Mariota was " pushed" on him not necessarily his choice. Certainly could be wrong about that. Just the impression I got.

[NorthHawk]

According to PFT, there are numerous reports that said the Broncos were trying to work out a trade for Thomas.
Some reports said they were trying to rework contracts.
Denver was apparently offering their 1st round pick in 2016, but the Browns wanted more.
Nothing noted about us trying to upgrade our OL.

[Hawkstar]

Looks like we stood pat. I'm really surprised, although we'll never know what was actually going on or how hard they were actively seeking OL help.

[kalibane]

I agree with you on this HC. I am not a Whisenhunt fan and I don't like how he treats QBs that don't fit "his mold". Nothing about him to me feels like he's one of the best options.

I know who I wish we could get to call our plays but he's not going to be available so it's pointless.

[HumanCockroach]

After reading up on whisenhunt after his firing and his "success" over the last three seasons I'm in the "please God no"category on him or the " you know Bevell isn't that bad" place.

[HumanCockroach]

I think Whisenhunt's offensive philosophy meshes perfectly with Carroll. He's all about a strong running game, TE's and some really off the wall trick plays thrown in to keep defenses off balance. Sounds right up Pete's alley to me.

You know I wanted to believe this Bob, so I looked hoping to be pleasantly surprised. I think you might be remembering him strictly from his three years in Pittsburgh, because since then he has never had a top ten rushing attack, and hasn't been higher than thirteenth in the league ( SD) but had been dead last four times, 28th or lower three times and in the mid twenties the rest of the time. Guy doesn't run the ball and never really has, minus the few years in Pittsburgh and one year in SD.

[c_hawkbob]

I was referring to his offensive philosophy more than his level of success. If he was a successful HC he wouldn't have just been fired.

[RiverDog]

I think Whisenhunt's offensive philosophy meshes perfectly with Carroll. He's all about a strong running game, TE's and some really off the wall trick plays thrown in to keep defenses off balance. Sounds right up Pete's alley to me.

Although I haven't seen much of his teams recently since they played in a different conference, I always got the impression that Whisenhunt preferred traditional pocket passing quarterbacks like Worthlessburger and Kurt Warner (although he did take Mariotta in the draft), and if we do go with a new OC, they almost certainly will be required to incorporate a healthy dose of read option plays in their offense.

Would Whisenhunt have to change his philosophy to take advantage of Russell Wilson's very unique skill set and adapt to the realities of our situation on the offensive line?

[Hawktawk]

Wisenhunt! NO!!!! The guy is a washed up has been. He hasn't had an offense for years now we want him running ours? I'm not a Bevell fan but no retreads who have failed elsewhere please.

[RiverDog]

Wisenhunt! NO!!!! The guy is a washed up has been. He hasn't had an offense for years now we want him running ours? I'm not a Bevell fan but no retreads who have failed elsewhere please.

I'm not necessarily advocating him, but we can't judge him by his performance at Tennessee as he didn't get any chance at all, 1.5 seasons to be exact, and he had a full rebuild there as outside of Mariotta, who's been hurt, they don't have very many playmakers.

The other thing about bringing in a veteran, former HC as an OC is that he's likely to have a pretty good handle on potential assistant coaches that might want to work for him. Many times, you're not just hiring an OC, you're hiring a lot of the coaching staff as well. Maybe he'd bring someone in here and get rid of Cable, who IMO is the real villain on our offensive coaching staff.

[c_hawkbob]

I'm not stumping for him either, I was just answering the posed question of whether or not his offensive philosophies meshed with Pete's. I believe they do.

[c_hawkbob]

Would Whisenhunt have to change his philosophy to take advantage of Russell Wilson's very unique skill set and adapt to the realities of our situation on the offensive line?

As for this question; I don't know if Wiz preferes traditional drop back passers or if that's just the type of QBs he's had or were available to him. I think to answer this you'd have to do some homework regarding QBs he (or teams whose decisions he may have significantly influenced) drafted and what other QBs were available when the choice was made.

[Hawktawk]

Matt Leinart isn't a fan. He posted "now the young QB can develop" and "karma' after Whiz firing.

Here's what I think of whizzinator.

If it weren't for Bill Leavy and Kurt Warner and Fitz nobody would know who the hell the man even is.
No thanks he's done put him out to pasture.
Yes I would prefer Bevell to this guy.

[RiverDog]

As for this question; I don't know if Wiz preferes traditional drop back passers or if that's just the type of QBs he's had or were available to him. I think to answer this you'd have to do some homework regarding QBs he (or teams whose decisions he may have significantly influenced) drafted and what other QBs were available when the choice was made.

Mariota was more than likely a predetermined pick, so I'm not sure we can use him as an example that Whisenhunt does not necessarily prefer a drop back-style QB. It seems that somewhere I heard that he prefers a drop back style of offense, but I can't attribute it to anyone. I don't know if they were using direct quotes or if it was simply random speculation, just something that stuck in my mind.

It's not a subject worthy of anyone's homework unless and until we fire Bevell, which if we do, won't happen until January or February. But thanks for answering the question.

[NorthHawk]

Some coaches are better suited as Coordinators than Head Coaches.
As the new OC in San Diego, Whisenhunt took their Offense from 31st to 5th.
Norv Turner is another example of a HC that has had more success as an OC and there are a bunch more.

Whisenhunt went to the SuperBowl as the HC of Arizona and he is considered as a cautious OC with a few trick plays he would pull out occasionally (SB 40).
That cautious nature is I think in line with Pete's general philosophy.
His teams usually relied on a solid run game as a base with a good QB not turning over the ball much.
With the Cards, he had a great passer in Warner and took advantage of that, so he can adapt his Offensive philosophy.

The questions in my mind are would he want to come here as an OC and is Pete thinking of making a change?

[HumanCockroach]

See that's the thing. He had a horrid running game in Arizona and I'm not in the least exaggerating that. Dead last three of the years and no better than 26th.

Just don't see the "strong running game" philosophy you guys are talking about anywhere in his past. ( other than his three years in Pittsburgh and each year his running game sank 2nd, 5th and then 9th).