is this the same Packers team we played in Week 2?

[RiverDog]

It sure doesn't look like it. Geez, do they look bad. And I have Aaron Rodgers on my fantasy team!

[RiverDog]

Uh, and 2 seconds after I make that post...

[Zorn76]

There are some definite chinks in the cheese armor for GB.

Huge loss - playoff seeding at stake, and the Packers come out and lay an egg in the 1st half, which killed any realistic shot of coming back, though they did make it much closer in the final two quarters.

Fist time in awhile they've dropped 2 straight.

They are getting out physicaled by opponents. They still likely win division, even though the Vikings are tied with them right now. Minnesota is also 3-0 in their division, with GB at 1-0. Conference record is the same.

We have to keep pace. We're 2 games back for both division and WC spot at the moment. Atlanta's worth keeping an eye on, too, because they've lost 2/3 and are in a battle with SF at the moment.

No matter what, we have to beat Az to realistically stay in playoff hunt. Lose game, and our chances take a big hit.

[RiverDog]

There are some definite chinks in the cheese armor for GB.

Huge loss - playoff seeding at stake, and the Packers come out and lay an egg in the 1st half, which killed any realistic shot of coming back, though they did make it much closer in the final two quarters.

Fist time in awhile they've dropped 2 straight.

They are getting out physicaled by opponents. They still likely win division, even though the Vikings are tied with them right now. Minnesota is also 3-0 in their division, with GB at 1-0. Conference record is the same.

We have to keep pace. We're 2 games back for both division and WC spot at the moment. Atlanta's worth keeping an eye on, too, because they've lost 2/3 and are in a battle with SF at the moment.

No matter what, we have to beat Az to realistically stay in playoff hunt. Lose game, and our chances take a big hit.

One thing is for sure: If we do make the playoffs, it's a near certainty that we're not getting HFA. Carolina has what is essentially a 5 game lead on us. The Packers are essentially 3 up, so a first round bye looks very iffy, too.

The Vikings are suddenly becoming relevant, and we have to go on the road to Minnesota to face them, in December, and they're playing outdoors. We also have Baltimore in a night game in December, too. We'd better get fitted for long underwear.

[Zorn76]

Not even thinking HFA at all, just playoffs.

Division crown gets us one home playoff game, but we still have a long way to go before thinking that.

The Vikings are winning, but it's very sketchy. We play pretty well in cold weather games, too.

If the Falcons drop the game in SF today, they will be 6-3. Far from certain, but they're starting to get sloppy after a nice start to season.

[RiverDog]

Not even thinking HFA at all, just playoffs.

Division crown gets us one home playoff game, but we still have a long way to go before thinking that.

The Vikings are winning, but it's very sketchy. We play pretty well in cold weather games, too.

If the Falcons drop the game in SF today, they will be 6-3. Far from certain, but they're starting to get sloppy after a nice start to season.

I know it's early, that the playoff picture doesn't really start to take shape until after the Thanksgiving weekend, but I'm eyeballing those second place teams like the Falcons and Vikings. They could be our competition for a wild card if we don't catch the Cards.

Great game going on between Indy and Denver.

[Zorn76]

The Rams are hanging in there at 4-4 as well.

So much riding on our next game.

The Falcons...wow.

Golden chance for them to win on the road, and they lose to a thrown together 49er team, who did play well to their credit.

Quinn blew his chance by kicking FG with 3 min left in 4th. His D had not demonstrated that they would force a 3 and out, and even if they didn't get TD at that point, SF woulda had the ball at their own 5 or so. SF likely hands off 3 straight times for punting room and to burn time, with Falcons likely affording themselves one last shot.

Their loss helps us, so glad SF could help.

[jshawaii22]

What an odd 2 weeks for Aaron Rodgers. I figured after that non-int that the refs gave them, that here goes Rodger's on a comeback to end the Panther's winning streak. But, no. Panther's are the #1 seed right now. (he's on my Fantasy team, too, but came back strong, RD!)

Gabbert just beat the Falcons and that will probably be the official end of the Kaep era, baring injury. Falcons are the #2 WC team right now and starting to fade a little.

Next week is really looking like a make or break game.

js

[Zorn76]

What an odd 2 weeks for Aaron Rodgers. I figured after that non-int that the refs gave them, that here goes Rodger's on a comeback to end the Panther's winning streak. But, no. Panther's are the #1 seed right now. (he's on my Fantasy team, too, but came back strong, RD!)

Gabbert just beat the Falcons and that will probably be the official end of the Kaep era, baring injury. Falcons are the #2 WC team right now and starting to fade a little.

Next week is really looking like a make or break game.

js

It really does.

Timing is everything right now, and you have to put off the next loss as long as possible. 10 wins minimum for a WC spot this year, unless there's a collective choked job done by Vikes and Falcons.

Even with all the struggles this season, the Seahawks would have the benefit of playoff experience if they get in. Pack and Panthers do too. I also think it would be better to have GB win their division, since they already own the head to head tie breaker against us. If we can hang tough and beat Minnesota in a few weeks, that could come in handy later.

First things first, though - gotta be Az.

[RiverDog]

I'm not convinced that Gabbert is their guy. He did win, but his stats weren't eye popping, and he did throw a pick that let the Falcons back into the game. So we'll see. He'll probably get a couple more auditions. We'll more than likely see him up here in a couple weeks. No sense starting Kaepernick against us. As many have noted, we're in his head big time. And if Gabbert turns out to be their guy, getting him some experience up here would be invaluable.

Did anyone else catch Mike Zimmer's post game comments, about the Rams/Fischer/Williams playing dirty? Who would have thought it.

Interesting game on tap tonight between the Eagles and Cowboys. Keep an eye on Bradford. If he doesn't get them into the playoffs, IMO Kelly will be talking with the Niners about Kaepernick.

[HumanCockroach]

Same team. Suspect o- line, no defense, sometimes Rodgers can save you, sometimes he can't. I didn't see a major difference other than he had less time than he needed to be successful.

Good news is, that is how an "excellent" NFL line performs against the Panthers, I feel even better about Seattle's line than I did following the Cowboys game. Outperformed GBs line by far against the Panthers, which shows serious improvement that has been sustained for two weeks in a row.

[EmeraldBullet]

Arizona isn't that good.

Yes, they are 6-2 but they are only 2 games ahead of us and still have to play us twice.

The cards have beat the Saints, Bears, 49ers, Lions, Ravens, and Browns

They have lost to the Rams in Arizona and at Steelers.

Their remaining schedule:

@ Sea, vs Cin, @ SF, @ STL, vs Min, @ Phi, vs GB, vs Sea.

I predict that the Rams will finish second in the division to us. Arizona is gonna drop off this second half (I could see Cards going 2-6 this second half of the season).

[RiverDog]

Arizona isn't that good.

Yes, they are 6-2 but they are only 2 games ahead of us and still have to play us twice.

The cards have beat the Saints, Bears, 49ers, Lions, Ravens, and Browns

They have lost to the Rams in Arizona and at Steelers.

Their remaining schedule:

@ Sea, vs Cin, @ SF, @ STL, vs Min, @ Phi, vs GB, vs Sea.

I predict that the Rams will finish second in the division to us. Arizona is gonna drop off this second half (I could see Cards going 2-6 this second half of the season).

I'm not worried about the Cards. I'm worried about the Seahawks. Even against the most meager of competition, our offense has had major, major problems. Our red zone offense is the worst in the league. Anyone, and I mean anyone, can beat us home or away if our defense has just the slightest of letdowns, as we found out against the Lions, who've continued to implode.

Let's hope we benefited from the week off. The first half of the season was not kind to us.

[EmeraldBullet]

In the games against the Lions, Bengals, and Panthers we didn't cover the tight end. I expect this to change. We do need to figure some stuff out on offense though. I think our offense is most flat when Wilson is running at all. I don't have any stats or anything to back that up, just an observation.

On a side note I hope Panthers get HF (thinking it wont be us), I'd rather have to play in Carolina than in GB in the playoffs (looking ahead.)

[RiverDog]

In the games against the Lions, Bengals, and Panthers we didn't cover the tight end. I expect this to change. We do need to figure some stuff out on offense though. I think our offense is most flat when Wilson is running at all. I don't have any stats or anything to back that up, just an observation.

On a side note I hope Panthers get HF (thinking it wont be us), I'd rather have to play in Carolina than in GB in the playoffs (looking ahead.)

Yea, I agree, I'd rather go to Carolina than I would Green Bay, but not just because of the venue. I would much, much rather face Cam Newton than I would Aaron Rodgers. Newton doesn't have Rodgers' accuracy, and there's too many times that our pass rush disappears. Even if Carolina gets HFA, we might still end up going to Green Bay before even getting to Carolina. The Packers have a 3 game lead with 8 games left.

But that's getting way ahead of ourselves. This team as currently configured is not playing playoff caliber football, and that has to change if we plan on going anywhere.

[Hawktawk]

The Pack is in disarray. I think the Luck virus got passed on to Rodgers for a while.
I always get nervous before games but I never sit down to watch the Hawks these days and think they cant win.First is make the playoffs. GBs swoon really screws up WC chances even more meaning if somehow Minn gets past them now they have the head to head in WC.
Seattle needs to win the division and right now they have destiny in their hands with a huge test next Sunday. Assuming they make the playoffs and Carolina were to get HFA Seattle played there 3 years in a row,winning all of them with much this same cast of characters. It would be as comfortable a venue as possible for us on the road.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="RiverDog"]

Yea, I agree, I'd rather go to Carolina than I would Green Bay, but not just because of the venue. I would much, much rather face Cam Newton than I would Aaron Rodgers. Newton doesn't have Rodgers' accuracy, and there's too many times that our pass rush disappears.

Yeah but RD Newton is coming along. Hes really running with authority in a way only he can do, inside between the tackles. And even though he isn't the most accurate thrower it seems the throws have been there when it mattered as an 8-0 record and Seahawks fans can attest. That comeback in Seattle he had that defeated look in his eyes then he flipped it. He used to never come back from that.
Really since returning from that auto accident something has been different about Cam and thats a little scary. He has the measurables like none other. If he ever puts it all together he will be a tough out.

[kalibane]

I tried to tell you guys about Cam in the preseason. Most of the knocks against him are narrative and wanting to discount him because there were some very unlikable things about him coming out of college. He hasn't been able to shine really because his receivers have been garbage (worse than the Seahawks) but he's been steadily progressing since his rookie year. The change didn't start with the car accident.

The Packers are ALWAYS overrated so this doesn't surprise me in the slightest. It all ties into with in my gut I just feel like Aaron Rodgers' reputation is overblown. It's a hard argument to make because there is no doubting that he's one of the best QBs in the league and has been unquestionable the best QB at times, but he is not the best to ever play the game and too many people talk about him like that, as if he gets one more championship and that's it he's the GOAT.

Eddie Lacy is not doing anything, they have no one who really scares you on defense (not even Matthews, who's coasting on rep these past two years or Peppers, who's still really good but not All-Pro good). Randall Cobb is their only truly dynamic playmaker but he's always been a bit inconsistent, never that Welker or Edelman type slot guy who catches 7-10 passes every game. I flat out don't think they will win the Super Bowl and whether they get there will depend on their playoff draw. Even with the Seahawks obvious problems I think if they can manage to dig out of this hole and make the playoffs, I like their chances better than the Packers once the playoffs start because the Hawks still have the talent to bring the hammer down defensively.

As of right now I like the Cardinals and the Panthers better than the Packers in the NFC and the Broncos, Pats and Bengals in the AFC.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="kalibane"].

The Packers are ALWAYS overrated so this doesn't surprise me in the slightest. It all ties into with in my gut I just feel like Aaron Rodgers' reputation is overblown. It's a hard argument to make because there is no doubting that he's one of the best QBs in the league and has been unquestionable the best QB at times, but he is not the best to ever play the game and too many people talk about him like that, as if he gets one more championship and that's it he's the GOAT.

I think having a belief Rodgers is a bit overrated is completely reasonable. The guy is a smooth athlete with a very nice arm, all kinds of release angles and a great ability to throw on the run. But as a leader?EEhh not so much. He looks like captain grumpy pants when things go wrong, never takes the blame for losses and he has really turned in some pedestrian performances lately. Even yesterday he dug himself too big a hole to climb out of by putting up 38 yards passing for most of the first half. A top 5 guy? Sure but this MVP and greatest ever stuff is ridiculous.

[NorthHawk]

It sure doesn't look like it. Geez, do they look bad. And I have Aaron Rodgers on my fantasy team!

It's the same Packers team.
We were just real bad at the beginning of the year, and might still be real bad again against very good teams.
The Offense has to get untracked for us to have a chance against the better teams or else it's no playoffs for us.
I heard a comment yesterday that the teams that shut down our Offense blitzed a lot and the Cowboys and SF didn't do much of it.
I hope that's not true and our OL has turned a corner, but time will tell if the guys up front will play well enough for the O to score more points.

[EmeraldBullet]

We also played a brutal schedule the first half. We had to go on the road against GB and Cin, and had chances to beat them both. Also hosted Panthers who haven't lost yet. I think it's understandable we dropped those 3 games. The game that bothers me is the loss to the Rams on the road. Our second half is a lot easier than our first half and Arizonas will be much tougher than their first half. I think we should be able to win the division. We also started much of the first quarter of the season without Lynch. I will agree though our WR need to start showing up. Our WR haven't done anything in my opinion. Where is Kerse these days? Butler hardly does anything now it seems. I feel like most of our receiving yards go to our TE's.

[NorthHawk]

It starts with the OL.
The first part of the year they couldn't run or pass block consistently well enough to deserve to win.
It remains to be seen if they can get it done the rest of the year.

[jshawaii22]

The O Line has improved game over game for most of the year and last game against Dallas looked the best. Maybe Dallas D isn't as good as Cincy or Carolina. That's hard to tell, but no sacks and no penalties is a big improvement against any NFL team.

If they come in against AZ and play that good, we have a chance if Russell can get his act together for a whole game. We need 30 points to be in the game.

Bailey really did well in his first game, for a player that wanted out a couple of weeks ago. Now what do we do with Okung?

Is now a good time to just put the best 5 on the field or go back to Okung?

js

[SalmonBB]

I'm not worried about the Cards. I'm worried about the Seahawks.

Agree, RD. Our four losses came primarilly as a consequence of our own actions, and against good teams like the Packers and Bengals, the effects of poor play-calling and 4th Quarter strategies were compounded. My concern has less to do with individual or positional performance. It has more to do with the mental aspect of the game. Will our players come out hungry in the second half of the season? Will our coordinators call plays intended to win the game for 60 whole minutes, or will they change tacts the moment we take a lead? Hopefully, our team comes out fired up, and the coaches let the players play.

You know who the Panthers remind me of? It would be nice to get back to that...

GO SEAHAWKS!!!

[NorthHawk]

The O Line has improved game over game for most of the year and last game against Dallas looked the best. Maybe Dallas D isn't as good as Cincy or Carolina. That's hard to tell, but no sacks and no penalties is a big improvement against any NFL team.

If they come in against AZ and play that good, we have a chance if Russell can get his act together for a whole game. We need 30 points to be in the game.

Bailey really did well in his first game, for a player that wanted out a couple of weeks ago. Now what do we do with Okung?

Is now a good time to just put the best 5 on the field or go back to Okung?

js

Go back to Okung. He's the better player and providing he's healthy he gives us the best chance to protect Wilson and run block.
The Seahawks OL hasn't done very well against blitzing teams, and if I'm not mistaken the Cards like to bring pressure from all over.
As well, they have a better DL than the Cowboys.
We're going to have to have a big improvement on the OL if we want to see the Offense produce like we all hope it can.

[RiverDog]

I'm not trying to take away from the performance of our OL, but one of the factors in our win over the Cowboys is that we were throwing more quick rhythm passes ala Tom Brady. I also don't think the Cowboys blitzed as much as other teams have.

I haven't seen the sustained improvement in our OL that others claim to have seen. It seems to come and go...mostly go...depending on our opponent. And yes, we start Okung if he's ready. No brainer IMO.

Sunday should be a very telling game. We win and we're right back in the hunt. But if we lose, we'll have 5 losses with 7 games to go and the Cards will be up 3+ on us in the division. The odds get pretty long in that scenario. This is about as big of a game that you can get in mid November.

[Seahawks4Ever]

In one word, yes, it is the same team We could have won that game just like we could have won the games against the Bengals and Panthers.

That said, watching the Panthers they could the team to win the NFC and go the Super Bowl. Last season's Panthers remind me of the Seahawk team that just fell short in Atlanta. I remember what one of the Seahawks said at the time, "we didn't get to the top of the mountain but we could see it from there.

They are playing with a ton of confidence, they seem to be the class of the NFC this year. I could see an NFC Championship game played in Charlotte between the Panthers and the Seahawks, or maybe the Cardinals. If we got back to the Championship game I would be estatic and I wouldn't bet against our Seahawks making 3 straight trips to the Super Bowl.

[RiverDog]

I could see an NFC Championship game played in Charlotte between the Panthers and the Seahawks, or maybe the Cardinals. If we got back to the Championship game I would be estatic and I wouldn't bet against our Seahawks making 3 straight trips to the Super Bowl.

Before I see any of that, I need to see us beat a playoff quality team like the Cardinals.

Using ESPN's latest power rankings, our 4 wins have come against the #21 Bears (without Jay Cutler, who's been playing great lately), the #23 Cowboys (without Romo), the #30 49'ers, and the #32 Lions. Our losses have come against the #2 Bengals, the #3 Panthers, the #5 Packers, and the #10 Rams.

We are coming off a two game winning streak, we're at home, relatively healthy, and should be well rested coming off our bye week. We're playing a division rival that's had a good season to this point so we can't say it's a trap game. There's no excuse for us not to play well and win this game. Time for the Hawks to put up or shut up.

[Seahawks4Ever]

Uh, the Cardinals have not defeated anyone with a winning record either so I think until they defeat us I will believe us to be fairly even.

The Panthers are undefeated, BUT, we could of and should have won that game. the Panthers are another team that has beat very few teams with a winning record.

We had to play the toughest part of our schedule before Arizona and Carolina had to play their hard part.

look at what happened to the Packers, as soon as they had to play opponents with winning records they lost. That was another team we gave the win away too.

This game against the Cardinals is going to tell whether we are going to make a run at the play offs or not. Until we are out of it I am going to believe we can do it.

[RiverDog]

Uh, the Cardinals have not defeated anyone with a winning record either so I think until they defeat us I will believe us to be fairly even.

The Panthers are undefeated, BUT, we could of and should have won that game. the Panthers are another team that has beat very few teams with a winning record.

We had to play the toughest part of our schedule before Arizona and Carolina had to play their hard part.

look at what happened to the Packers, as soon as they had to play opponents with winning records they lost. That was another team we gave the win away too.

This game against the Cardinals is going to tell whether we are going to make a run at the play offs or not. Until we are out of it I am going to believe we can do it.

All the more reason why we should win this game. No excuses. If we don't win this game, we might as well start talking about the offseason.

[Hawktawk]

This game against the Cardinals is going to tell whether we are going to make a run at the play offs or not. Until we are out of it I am going to believe we can do it

All the more reason why we should win this game. No excuses. If we don't win this game, we might as well start talking about the offseason.[/quote]

I could not agree more. This game is going to either propel the Hawks upwards or signal at least a pause in this run of dominance. The season would be on life support and if we cant win such a crucial matchup the playoffs would likely be a futile endeavor should they possibly back in somehow.

[RiverDog]

They're down 2 scores at home in the 4th quarter against the Lions, the consensus worst team in the league. The announcers are blaming it on not having Jordy Nelson, whom they haven't had all season.

Clearly, something is different about this team. This isn't the same team we played in September.

[jshawaii22]

and neither are the Rams...

js

[NorthHawk]

They're down 2 scores at home in the 4th quarter against the Lions, the consensus worst team in the league. The announcers are blaming it on not having Jordy Nelson, whom they haven't had all season.

Clearly, something is different about this team. This isn't the same team we played in September.

Suddenly their OL isn't playing well.
Even the best QB in the game can't make up for that.
Funny how that works...