Manning meltdown

[Hawktawk]

Its truly been cringe worthy to watch the shell of Manning trying to play NFL ball an arm that is inferior to a high schooler at this point. He should have hung it up after the ugly end to 2014. At any rate Kubiak finally had to be the guy to yank Peyton Manning.
Now it is apparently getting ugly with multiple reports Manning is providing no assistance for Ostweiler in practice and not planning to travel or even be with the team as he rehabs his *injuries*
He apparently disagrees quite strongly with Kubiaks decision and is making no effort to be a team player.

As great a player as Manning has been he has always been a narcissist and about his own brand IMO. This thing looks like it could not end uglier. Its got to be bittersweet for John Elway.

[NorthHawk]

There's no question he has an ego. All great players have it to some degree, but the other reports said that he was excused from meetings to concentrate on rehab.
As a matter of course, the team will try to play down any issues, and Manning reportedly said to Osweiler that he was there if he had any questions or needed any help.

It's probably not as bad as the report, but not as rosy as the team suggests.

[c_hawkbob]

The Denver media are saying that it is Kubiak's idea that Manning concentrate 100% on rehab and not be involved in meetings or helping Oz prepare.

This video: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... -for-bears ... is the source of the reports by everyone that Peyton is not helping Oz, but right at the 38 second mark the reporter specifies that it "is the way Kubiak wants it".

Not saying that's actually the case, but I like to follow story links back to their origin to see what was actually said by whom, and this is at least that.

[Distant Relative]

Sounds to me like PM is being pushed out the door.

[Zorn76]

He's done.

Great career, probably gets another start at some point during regular season.

Maybe they trust him in the playoffs, but his track record there isn't so hot even when he's been healthy.

Whether it's him or Osweiler in the postseason, they won't go far. It's Pats conference to lose, and has been for awhile now.

[c_hawkbob]

Sounds to me like PM is being pushed out the door.

I was thinking along similar lines but rather than pushing Manning out that they knew it was going to be Oz going forward and as he has a different skill set, they want to move on building their game plans around his skills, not Peyton's. As ingrained as Peyton's mindset as the captain of whatever ship he's on, they didn't want him dominating the meetings and practices as though it were still his show.

I guess it's seeing the same thing from slightly different angles ... either way I think the over/under on starts Manning has for the rest of his career is fewer than the number of games the Broncos have left to play this year.

[Hawktawk]

Manning needs to be shown the door.Its really painful to watch. Its not a lot different for many of the greats.How he can honestly watch film and say hes the answer is beyond me. Hes delusional.

But Ostweiller showed a spark immediately. Hes quite mobile and athletic and apparently is a first in the door last guy out sort of guy who is extremely familiar with the playbook. It will be fascinating to get a look at another one of the QB's from the class of 2012. With some film on him he might get chewed up but if he wins Manning will never start another game in Denver unless there is an injury.

My guess is Elway and Kubiak are hoping it goes that way. As has been said many times a healthy Peyton Manning has always been suspect in the playoffs and he was the worst QB in the league when he was benched.
You cant waste that type of defense in its prime.

[RiverDog]

Occasionally you see these athletes that stay one or two years too long. Bret Favre was like that. In retrospect, Manning should have retired after SB 48 as he had a record setting regular season performance, but IMO I don't think his ego would allow him stepping away after receiving a thumping like we gave him. He wanted to leave like Elway did, with the lasting image of him hoisting the Lombardi.

But it's really easy for us sitting here, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, to say what Manning should have done. But we do know for sure that he is done now.

As a side note, we've heard rumors for years that Manning is not real good at coaching his backups, that he doesn't have he patience for it, and the story about him (or his buddy Kubiak) coming up with an excuse to not work with Oz is just one more piece of evidence that confirms that rumor.

[NorthHawk]

Premier players in any team sport are rarely good coaches.
They usually have a work ethic that is above many of their peers, and things that come naturally or seem obvious to the great player are often difficult for the average player to master.
I imagine this would be extremely frustrating for someone who is used to doing it himself with relative ease. Add in a decade or more of playing at the highest level and it's understandable that they don't know how to coach someone less talented.
I think that's why players that were backups or only played a year or so make excellent coaches. They had to think their way onto the team and understand some of the hurdles the average player has to overcome.
Basically, their experience scratching and clawing to get to the professional ranks even if they weren't particularly successful has made them better teachers.

[Seahawks4Ever]

I am old enough that I remember Willie Mays and the shell of his former self he was when he tried to continue to play the out field. He was always a "National League" player but the D.H. was made for such a guy.

We all saw Ken Griffey Jr. play at the end and it too was sad to watch. I wished that Jr. would have retired at the end of that last full season instead of coming back for one more go 'round and the embarrasment it was.

It has been apparent since Super Bowl 48 that PM didn't have the arm strength to make the throws that had made him great. Yes, he set all kinds of records that season, that REGULAR season. But in the Super Bowl the Legion lowered the BOOM on him and exposed his arm weakness for what it was.

Our LOB showed every other defenses in the NFL how you take Manning out of the equasion and stop the Bronco offense. Peyton Manning some how convinced Elway that it was the offense that John Fox wanted him to run that was what was wrong last year, so, he canned Fox and brought in his old back up from yesteryear.

I remember our hawks playing the Broncos when we knocked Elway out of the game and was excited because his back up, a guy I had never heard of before was coming in. But what a surprise, Gary Kubiak ran the Bronco offense almost as good as Elway did and beat our fannys. Then, a year later or half a season I don't remember but Kubiak started for an injured Elway( I had thought the first time he beat us it had been a fluke) and kicked our butts again. The next time Kubiak came in for Elway I knew what to expect, I was under no illusions that Kubiak would do to our defense exactly what Elway usually did, and Kubiak and the Broncos won yet again.

I was not surprised that Gary Kubiak went on to be a great QB coach, then OC, then HC. I am sure that Elway was convinced that Kubiak was the doctor that could fix what ailed Peyton Manning. Alas, it was SNAKE OIL! Peyton's days as one of the best quarterbacks in NFL history were numbered before he ever left the Colts. Super Bowl 48 was Peyton's last opportunity to win another Super Bowl. It is going to eat at his competitive heart that his brother Eli was able to defeat his nemenises Brady and the Patriots in the "big games" when he, the GREAT Peyton Manning failed so many times. Look at it this way Peyton, your dad never even got to play in tthe play offs yet was a better QB than many that did.

Peyton Manning, without a doubt is one of the greastest quarterbacks to EVER play in the NFL. Eli is a very good QB, but he is NOT great, yet, he has two Super Bowl rings and may yet win more and Peyton, for all of his success and records will only have one Super Bowl win and two losses. Watching Peyton Manning play now reminds me so much of watching Willie Say Hey Mays and to a lesser extent Ken Griffey Jr. (That is because Mays was playing in the World Series for EVERYONE to see). Peyton Manning is a mere shell of his former self and I expect him to retire at the end of this season.

P.M. said that he would retire when it was apparent that he could no longer help his team win. Peyton, you ARE there.

[RiverDog]

Premier players in any team sport are rarely good coaches.
They usually have a work ethic that is above many of their peers, and things that come naturally or seem obvious to the great player are often difficult for the average player to master.
I imagine this would be extremely frustrating for someone who is used to doing it himself with relative ease. Add in a decade or more of playing at the highest level and it's understandable that they don't know how to coach someone less talented.
I think that's why players that were backups or only played a year or so make excellent coaches. They had to think their way onto the team and understand some of the hurdles the average player has to overcome.
Basically, their experience scratching and clawing to get to the professional ranks even if they weren't particularly successful has made them better teachers.

True, there are some HOF players, like Bart Starr, Mike Singletary, that were complete failures as coaches. But there are some, Mike Ditka comes to mind, that had a least some success.

But that doesn't excuse Manning. I really think he's a bit different personality even with his own teammates. He seems to me to be a little bit aloof. One example I can think if involves Matt Hasselbeck. I can remember one of his teammates, can't remember who except for that it was a defensive player, teasing Matt because he was "folically challenged." You never see Manning's teammates joking around with him, it's all business. It's not a criticism of Manning, he's not a bad teammate and certainly not a jerk like some. He's simply a different type of a guy.

[Hawktawk]

True, there are some HOF players, like Bart Starr, Mike Singletary, that were complete failures as coaches. But there are some, Mike Ditka comes to mind, that had a least some success.

But that doesn't excuse Manning. I really think he's a bit different personality even with his own teammates. He seems to me to be a little bit aloof. One example I can think if involves Matt Hasselbeck. I can remember one of his teammates, can't remember who except for that it was a defensive player, teasing Matt because he was "folically challenged." You never see Manning's teammates joking around with him, it's all business. It's not a criticism of Manning, he's not a bad teammate and certainly not a jerk like some. He's simply a different type of a guy.

Ive heard Manning is an OCD A hole in practice and demands perfection and repetition from the offense. Thats great when you win but when he is becoming the worst player on the field I cant imagine that act is playing very well anymore.

I remember after he screwed up the snap to start SB 48 he went over and started blaming Manny Ramirez and it was obviously his mistake.I remember him addressing "protection problems" and throwing his line under the bus a few years ago after another playoff loss.

I think a blame shifting teammate is a bad teammate. Peyton has most of the all time records and his greatness is undeniable but that doesn't make him a good teammate. I will guess if I were an NFL player Id rather play with Eli.He seems far more humble and easygoing and hes a better big game QB to boot.

At any ratye Ostweiiler is on the big stage today. He looked very nervous walking into the stadium and we will see how the team rallies around him.

[Zorn76]

With Manning's poor track record in the postseason at it is, I think the Broncos would be better off going with Osweiler in the playoffs.

If they think he's got a legit shot at remaining the starter for the future, might as well let him play through now.

Give Peyton a farewell start in front of the home crowd before the season ends, if possible, but otherwise they should let the kid remain the #1 guy moving forward.

[Hawktawk]

I think Ostweiller did what he needed to do to earn another start. He went into a hostile environment against a hot team and a coach who knew his team inside and out. No mistakes, over 70% completion rate and 2 TD's. And the team fought like mad dogs for him too.

And yet post game Mike Florio reported that Manning plans on playing in 2016 whether its with the Broncos or someone else. Dungy said he had not heard that yet however, and he has pretty close ties with Manning.

I hope it isn't true. Good lord it would be pure delusion. I dont think there would be any takers even in this QB starved league...

[RiverDog]

I think Ostweiller did what he needed to do to earn another start. He went into a hostile environment against a hot team and a coach who knew his team inside and out. No mistakes, over 70% completion rate and 2 TD's. And the team fought like mad dogs for him too.

And yet post game Mike Florio reported that Manning plans on playing in 2016 whether its with the Broncos or someone else. Dungy said he had not heard that yet however, and he has pretty close ties with Manning.

I hope it isn't true. Good lord it would be pure delusion. I dont think there would be any takers even in this QB starved league...

Don't kid yourself, Talk. There's a number of teams that depending on the price would jump at the chance of getting Peyton Manning and at least give him another shot, including the Niners, Browns, and Jets. I'm not saying that he would be a starter or even make the roster on any of those teams, but if you're desperate for a QB, you don't miss a chance to sign up one of the best quarterbacks of his era. And who knows, maybe one of them would catch lightning in a bottle. It's happened before. Favre and the Vikings went to the NFC Championship game when everybody was laughing at him no less loudly than you are laughing at Manning's chances.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="RiverDog
Don't kid yourself, Talk. There's a number of teams that depending on the price would jump at the chance of getting Peyton Manning and at least give him another shot, including the Niners, Browns, and Jets. I'm not saying that he would be a starter or even make the roster on any of those teams, but if you're desperate for a QB, you don't miss a chance to sign up one of the best quarterbacks of his era. And who knows, maybe one of them would catch lightning in a bottle. It's happened before. Favre and the Vikings went to the NFC Championship game when everybody was laughing at him no less loudly than you are laughing at Manning's chances.[/quote]

I beg to differ on Favre. His drama queen antics were what eventually got him released by GB. The man had said he was retiring for god sake, a couple of times in tearful press conferences. But his last year in GB he lost to the Giants in overtime in the semifinals or he might have been in the SB with GB that year. Unfortunately it was Favre's gambling nature that ended both that and the following season with Minn with game ending picks. But Favre could still throw the ball with tremendous velocity until the day he finally did hang it up. The Viking receivers talked about having to adjust to the velocity when he came aboard. He made a star out of Sydney Rice in Minnesota and Jericho Cochery in NY before that.

Manning has never had a consistent fastball since his neck injury. It was exposed tremendously in SB 48 and he has fallen off a cliff since about week 12 of last year. He cannot throw a deep out pattern and everyone knows it. Last start he couldn't throw anything. Less than 40 yards passing with a fumble and 4 picks and it really could and probably should have been 6 picks in less than 3 full quarters.
Who wants to sign up for a season of that? I guess some of the crazy stuff that happens you never know but what is the upside of hitching your wagon to a washed up 40 year old?

I don't think he has a future on the field although the broadcast booth and the front offices would drool to have him.
Its time.

[RiverDog]

I beg to differ on Favre. His drama queen antics were what eventually got him released by GB. The man had said he was retiring for god sake, a couple of times in tearful press conferences. But his last year in GB he lost to the Giants in overtime in the semifinals or he might have been in the SB with GB that year. Unfortunately it was Favre's gambling nature that ended both that and the following season with Minn with game ending picks. But Favre could still throw the ball with tremendous velocity until the day he finally did hang it up. The Viking receivers talked about having to adjust to the velocity when he came aboard. He made a star out of Sydney Rice in Minnesota and Jericho Cochery in NY before that.

Manning has never had a consistent fastball since his neck injury. It was exposed tremendously in SB 48 and he has fallen off a cliff since about week 12 of last year. He cannot throw a deep out pattern and everyone knows it. Last start he couldn't throw anything. Less than 40 yards passing with a fumble and 4 picks and it really could and probably should have been 6 picks in less than 3 full quarters.
Who wants to sign up for a season of that? I guess some of the crazy stuff that happens you never know but what is the upside of hitching your wagon to a washed up 40 year old?

I don't think he has a future on the field although the broadcast booth and the front offices would drool to have him.
Its time.

Favre didn't get released by GB, they traded him to the Jets, but you're right about the drama queen, attention seeking antics of retiring and un-retiring. But the reason for his trade wasn't my point. My point was that after an awful year with the Jets, everyone gave him up for dead yet he came back and took the Vikings to the NFCCG, losing in OT to the Saints, and was named to the Pro Bowl. There are teams out there that would give Peyton another chance should he be willing to play for them. He won't have his pick of the litter like he had in 2012, but there's still a market for him.

That noodle arm of Manning's was nearly good enough to beat us in his SB 48 rematch with us in our house, so I wouldn't make too much light of his 2014 season. But he has fallen off a cliff this year, and his diminishing arm strength is certainly a contributing factor.

[Hawktawk]

Well Manning is going to get at least another week of rest it appears. If Ostweiller knocks off the Pats or even plays well in a loss I dont see Manning starting again in Denver barring injury. Ostweiller did something Manning hasn't done all season, play a clean turnover free game. His passer rating was also better than Mannings best this season.The running game was invigorated by the Qb's ability to bootleg and run as well.

I guess check back after next Sunday. If there's a coach who can make a young QB look foolish its Billacheat.MOF he has made Manning look foolish more often than not as well. Peyton that is.....

Next year is a long ways off and another year on the old bones. Ill eat the crow if Manning is on a roster. But I dont see any scenario short of a miraculous recovery of velocity this season and a deep playoff run that would involve Manning being on the Denver or any other roster next season...