Wilson amongst leaders all time NFL stats

[c_hawkbob]

Meh, wearing a jersey is no different than wearing a Led Zepplin or Bob Marley shirt, or having a Marilyn Monroe print on your wall.

What about having Chip Foose or Boyd Coddington signature series wheels on your Hot Rod, or a Summit Racing sticker? Is that OK?

[HumanCockroach]

The other stunning thing here is how Wilson looks as a conventional quarterback. The naive, shortsighted knock on Wilson -- as much as you can knock a guy who has two Super Bowl trips in three chances -- has always been that he's a quarterback who has to rely on various gimmicks (such as the read-option), wild improvisational scrambles and a dominant running game to serve as an effective quarterback. At 5-foot-11, even after having proved himself as an elite quarterback, Wilson wasn't the sort of prototypical pocket passer the league fetishizes as their platonic ideal of a quarterback.

You missed this part.... It's like he was talking DIRECTLY to a specific person here, one we all have called out on the infamous "eye test" at one time or another. It made me chuckle.. But I'm petty like that....

[HumanCockroach]

Meh, wearing a jersey is no different than wearing a Led Zepplin or Bob Marley shirt, or having a Marilyn Monroe print on your wall.

What about having Chip Foose or Boyd Coddington signature series wheels on your Hot Rod, or a Summit Racing sticker? Is that OK?

Never understood that either... No different, and honestly, I can say Wilson IS better than me, at least 28 year old me, by many, many miles as a person... Hell, I don't think it's much of a stretch to say he's a better "person" ( at Least in terms of his generosity, leadership ability, drive and dedication) than I will ever be.

[Hawk Sista]

He's OK for a short, money-seeking, sack-causing, robotic-press conference giving, no sex having, needs to dump his GF, role playing, game manager who can't throw from the pocket.

It's just the running game and the strong D; otherwise he wouldn't have the best 4 year start (in almost every meaningful statistical category) in league history. Don't you idiots read or listen to sports radio?? Jeeeeez.....

[RiverDog]

Meh, wearing a jersey is no different than wearing a Led Zepplin or Bob Marley shirt, or having a Marilyn Monroe print on your wall.

What about having Chip Foose or Boyd Coddington signature series wheels on your Hot Rod, or a Summit Racing sticker? Is that OK?

Well, one difference is that they can't trade Led Zepplin to the 49'ers and Bob Marley never held out for more money after patrons bought tickets to his concerts, so wearing that stuff would be fine in my book. I was a little too young for Norma Jean, but I once had a Raquel Welch poster in my bedroom that I used to worship with one hand, so I guess you got me on that one.

I'm not aware of buying anyone's signature series, but I'm sure I must have at some point. I had a Ted Williams fishing reel that my dad bought me, but gifts don't count. I recently bought some of Calvin Klein's jeans, who ever the f**k he is.

I never had a hot rod. I had a '65 Chevy Impala 4 door from high school through college.

[Hawk Sista]

HEY!!!! Is the "eye test" thing a dig at me for saying Bailey was better than Gilliam? Tell me now

[burrrton]

HEY!!!! Is the "eye test" thing a dig at me for saying Bailey was better than Gilliam? Tell me now

Not sure if you're asking me, but any ridicule of Eye Tests™ from me is aimed directly at our own Captain Eye Test, Futureite.

[NorthHawk]

His contract is similar to Rodgers and Newtons and he's won a Super Bowl while Newton hasn't yet. Lucks deal is after this year, so I would think Wilson will slide down the scale a bit when that happens.

[HumanCockroach]

Of course it's mister Niner himself. Not you sis.

[HumanCockroach]

The naive, shortsighted knock on Wilson

[RiverDog]

HEY!!!! Is the "eye test" thing a dig at me for saying Bailey was better than Gilliam? Tell me now

You might not have been a part of it, Sis, as you've been absent for a couple of stretches, but we had an ongoing debate with Futureite. When he was confronted with statistical comparisons between Russell and Luck that he couldn't rationalize, he would retreat to this 'eye test' of his. Futureite had as much of an anti Wilson bias as did Anthony a pro Wilson bias, and couldn't bring himself to admit that Russell was a legitimate Pro Bowl quality quarterback. That's what the dig was about.

Speaking of Futureite, he's sure run and hid, hasn't he?

[Hawkstar]

Speaking of Futureite, he's sure run and hid, hasn't he?[/quote]


He's out buying a Gabbert jersey.

[HumanCockroach]

And yet another NFL record in the books for Wilson...

[RiverDog]

Best 4-5 game stretch that I can remember. My only regret is that it isn't a 6 or 7 game stretch.

[obiken]

Thats it. You also have to remember, these are not elite defenses we are beating. Our guys got a lot of yards on runs after catches, and they Browns dropped a boatload of balls tonight, you dont get those against good teams.

[mykc14]

Thats it. You also have to remember, these are not elite defenses we are beating. Our guys got a lot of yards on runs after catches, and they Browns dropped a boatload of balls tonight, you dont get those against good teams.

They are still NFL Defenses. Never apologize for somebody else's weaknesses. What RW and this Hawks O have been doing these past 5 weeks is dang impressive. As far as our YAC yards, so what. See the thread where we discusses YAC at length. We are not in the top 15 in YAC yards. Also, the Browns dropping a busload of passes doesn't really affect RW's passing stats. Good teams do drop balls sometimes, but it certainly isn't something that you can count on. Lets say they catch those, they still lose by 2 TD's. They couldn't stop our O.

[Zorn76]

Let's just be glad that the offense has regained their confidence and found some rhythm, even if it's coming at some lesser D's expense. The point is that they can use this success moving forward and trust what they're doing. It's the collective mental boost that I like most about these last 5 games.

Hope it continues, cause we're gonna need Beast back to help legitimize a playoff run, IMO.

[HumanCockroach]

Thats it. You also have to remember, these are not elite defenses we are beating. Our guys got a lot of yards on runs after catches, and they Browns dropped a boatload of balls tonight, you dont get those against good teams.

And that has what to do with Wilson becoming the only player to ever accomplish that feat? You going to tell me that we should dismiss half of Rices TDs and catches because he wasn't facing a top defense or corner? Remove three quarters of Brady's victories because he put those wins up against woeful opponents? WTF? Feel free to explain to me how Brady, Brees, Montana, Elway,Manning, Young, ( insert ANY name you feel like) hasn't played a "stretch" against weaker teams. Thing is they have, they ALL have, and STILL never played at that level. Period. Has never happened, ever.

That is an NFL defense, hell Brady couldn't even do it the year Moss and him were running up the score. Are you so blind as to not be able to recognize history when it slaps you in the face? Christ. Wilson can't even get respect amongst his own "fans".

[RiverDog]

Thats it. You also have to remember, these are not elite defenses we are beating. Our guys got a lot of yards on runs after catches, and they Browns dropped a boatload of balls tonight, you dont get those against good teams.

Minnesota was a top 10 defense before we met up with them. Baltimore's defense is still in the top half of the league even after we got through lighting them up for 424 yards and 35 points. Both of those were road games, outdoors. Granted, it's not Murderer's Row, but on the other hand, a month ago we couldn't score on the wimpiest of defenses. There's no need to apologize for the opposition. What Russell and the Hawk's offense has done is legitimate. There's no need to qualify it.

Russell is in a zone by himself. Where he used to look like a deer in the headlights, nothing seems to bother him now. He's making his reads, getting the ball out of his hands quickly, can feel when his protection will hold to where he can wait for a shot downfield, in general is making accurate throws (although he underthrew some balls today), he's making smart decisions as to when to run and when to throw the ball away and live for another down, is protecting the rock. Thanks to him our red zone offense has exploded, going from last in the league by a long shot to 19th in 5 games, and our offense that was scoring just 17 PPG after the Cowpukes game, 5th worst in the league, is now averaging 24 ppg, good enough for 7th best. We were 4th worst in number of first downs. Now we're 8th best. The turn around has been nothing short of phenomenal. It's been an incredible 5 games.

I'm as tough a critic as there is, and even I have to admit that this is one of the most impressive 5 game runs any quarterback I've witnessed since I started watching football over 55 years ago. I've seen quarterbacks like Marino and Fouts put up some huge games, but not 5 in a row and not after things had been so horrid prior to a run like this. It's been that mind boggling. If I have anything negative to say about this streak, it's that he, or rather we, didn't turn it around a month earlier. Better late than never.

[Hawktawk]

Russell is in a zone by himself. Where he used to look like a deer in the headlights, nothing seems to bother him now.

Ive never seen Russell Wilson look like a deer in the headlights, ever. He isn't always successful but he is never overwhelmed or panicked.Not sure where you got that one.....

As for starting sooner I think in hindsight 4 of our 5 losses were to very good playoff teams who currently have a TOTAL of 9 losses after 14 weeks and Seattle still could have won all of them.Seattle was unsettled on the line, our stud back was hurt and ineffective and the defense was in disarray. Russ is the only reason we are sniffing the playoffs eking out the amount of offense he did with that train wreck.

Winning the division would have been nice but I actually love the slot Seattle is in. It is now conceivable Seattle will be the team resting players in week 17. At any rate a date with the NFC least winner awaits, followed by a likely rematch with AZ. Seattle has played Carolina so many times its like a division game if they dont stub their toe vs the North winner first. The nice thing is Seattle is red hot when it matters most, late Dec.They have been dominant on the road, playing some of their best football of this era the last couple of outings.

If Russ keeps playing like this we are winning the Superbowl.

[RiverDog]

Russell is in a zone by himself. Where he used to look like a deer in the headlights, nothing seems to bother him now.

Ive never seen Russell Wilson look like a deer in the headlights, ever. He isn't always successful but he is never overwhelmed or panicked.Not sure where you got that one.....

As for starting sooner I think in hindsight 4 of our 5 losses were to very good playoff teams who currently have a TOTAL of 9 losses after 14 weeks and Seattle still could have won all of them.Seattle was unsettled on the line, our stud back was hurt and ineffective and the defense was in disarray. Russ is the only reason we are sniffing the playoffs eking out the amount of offense he did with that train wreck.

Winning the division would have been nice but I actually love the slot Seattle is in. It is now conceivable Seattle will be the team resting players in week 17. At any rate a date with the NFC least winner awaits, followed by a likely rematch with AZ. Seattle has played Carolina so many times its like a division game if they dont stub their toe vs the North winner first. The nice thing is Seattle is red hot when it matters most, late Dec.They have been dominant on the road, playing some of their best football of this era the last couple of outings.

If Russ keeps playing like this we are winning the Superbowl.

Are you sure that you're not really Anthony? Russell is the only reason this team is sniffing the playoffs? LMAO. Tell that to the defense.

The first 9 games, Russell to me a lot of times looked like a deer in the headlights... or maybe a duck in a shooting range. He was holding onto the ball passing up open receivers, scrambling when he didn't have to scramble, ran into sacks etc. His TD's and first downs were way, way down. He choked away 4th quarter leads. IMO he was playing the worst football of his career up until the last 5 games.

In hindsight, we weren't playing well even against the horrible teams, such as the Lions and Cowboys, two teams that shouldn't have been on the same field as us yet the games were razor thin. Heck, even at home against the Bears our offense struggled in the first half. It wasn't just a matter of a play or two not going our way or a bad call here and there. We were way out of whack, at least offensively. We sucked. That's why I took down my #12 flag. I haven't been that disgusted since the days when Dave Krieg used to fumble without a sole around.

I define a quarterbacks play largely on what the team achieves, or at least the offense, especially in this day and age. The quarterback is by far the most influential player on the field. He doesn't get all the blame, but he gets a disproportionate share of it when we lose as well as a disproportionate share of the credit when we win.

[mykc14]

Are you sure that you're not really Anthony? Russell is the only reason this team is sniffing the playoffs? LMAO. Tell that to the defense.

The first 9 games, Russell to me a lot of times looked like a deer in the headlights... or maybe a duck in a shooting range. He was holding onto the ball passing up open receivers, scrambling when he didn't have to scramble, ran into sacks etc. His TD's and first downs were way, way down. He choked away 4th quarter leads. IMO he was playing the worst football of his career up until the last 5 games.

In hindsight, we weren't playing well even against the horrible teams, such as the Lions and Cowboys, two teams that shouldn't have been on the same field as us yet the games were razor thin. Heck, even at home against the Bears our offense struggled in the first half. It wasn't just a matter of a play or two not going our way or a bad call here and there. We were way out of whack, at least offensively. We sucked. That's why I took down my #12 flag. I haven't been that disgusted since the days when Dave Krieg used to fumble without a sole around.

Yeah, the first half of the season we looked bad in general. That has been the only real head scratcher for me with this team. Year in and year out we have to have face adversity, have a come to jesus speech/team meeting, and then we turn it on and go on a 7-1 streak going into the playoffs. The fact that this team needs adversity to reach their potential is a little weird to me. IMO the only thing that really makes sense is most of the roster is made up of guys who have always had their back against the wall. Un-drafted and under-drafted guys who thrive when they face adversity, but maybe lose focus a bit when things are going well. I don't know, but its a head scratcher. It would be really cool to see what this team could do if they played to their potential for a full season.

[RiverDog]

Yeah, the first half of the season we looked bad in general. That has been the only real head scratcher for me with this team. Year in and year out we have to have face adversity, have a come to jesus speech/team meeting, and then we turn it on and go on a 7-1 streak going into the playoffs. The fact that this team needs adversity to reach their potential is a little weird to me. IMO the only thing that really makes sense is most of the roster is made up of guys who have always had their back against the wall. Un-drafted and under-drafted guys who thrive when they face adversity, but maybe lose focus a bit when things are going well. I don't know, but its a head scratcher. It would be really cool to see what this team could do if they played to their potential for a full season.

2013 was different. We ran off and hid with an 11-1 record then lost 2 of our last 4, needing to win our last game to avoid slipping all the way to the #5 seed, then we didn't look all that impressive in the playoffs. I was afraid we'd peaked too early that season, but we came out and blasted the Broncos to win our first Lombardi.

[c_hawkbob]

Are you sure that you're not really Anthony? Russell is the only reason this team is sniffing the playoffs? LMAO. Tell that to the defense.

The first 9 games, Russell to me a lot of times looked like a deer in the headlights... or maybe a duck in a shooting range. He was holding onto the ball passing up open receivers, scrambling when he didn't have to scramble, ran into sacks etc. His TD's and first downs were way, way down. He choked away 4th quarter leads. IMO he was playing the worst football of his career up until the last 5 games.

In hindsight, we weren't playing well even against the horrible teams, such as the Lions and Cowboys, two teams that shouldn't have been on the same field as us yet the games were razor thin. Heck, even at home against the Bears our offense struggled in the first half. It wasn't just a matter of a play or two not going our way or a bad call here and there. We were way out of whack, at least offensively. We sucked. That's why I took down my #12 flag. I haven't been that disgusted since the days when Dave Krieg used to fumble without a sole around.

I define a quarterbacks play largely on what the team achieves, or at least the offense, especially in this day and age. The quarterback is by far the most influential player on the field. He doesn't get all the blame, but he gets a disproportionate share of it when we lose as well as a disproportionate share of the credit when we win.

Oh stop it already. The major difference between Russ now and early in the season is the fact that he's getting enough protection to function the way he's capable of. It's not as though it took him till the last 5 game to finally pull his head out of his arse.

Football starts in the trenches, without decent line play nothing works, but it takes a special talent to do what Russ has been able to do once the guys up front give him the room to operate. We're damn lucky to have him.

[RiverDog]

[Oh stop it already. The major difference between Russ now and early in the season is the fact that he's getting enough protection to function the way he's capable of. It's not as though it took him till the last 5 game to finally pull his head out of his arse.

Football starts in the trenches, without decent line play nothing works, but it takes a special talent to do what Russ has been able to do one the guys up front give him the room to operate. We're damn lucky to have him.

Stop it yourself! I'll express my opinion, you express yours. You have no right to tell me when to stop.

I agree that a very large reason for Russell's woes was poor play up front. But even so, he was still screwing up. Those offensive linemen didn't suddenly pull their heads out and start playing like Pro Bowlers anymore than Russell did. There were changes Russell made to his play that allowed the OL to play better.

Go back and read my commentary about Russell's last 5 games. I agree, we are damn lucky to have him. But he doesn't walk on water.

[Hawktawk]

Football starts in the trenches, without decent line play nothing works, but it takes a special talent to do what Russ has been able to do once the guys up front give him the room to operate. We're damn lucky to have him.

Hear Hear Bob..


I agree that a very large reason for Russell's woes was poor play up front. But even so, he was still screwing up. Those offensive linemen didn't suddenly pull their heads out and start playing like Pro Bowlers anymore than Russell did.

Jeez RD you sure you aren't Future/Savvy? Id love to have seen Brady, Manning(benched), Luck (LMAO)Rodgers(very average this year), any of them do any better than Russ with what was happening most of the first 10 weeks in general.
Now the guy is breaking all time records and you still cant lose the chub. Its gone on for 4 weeks too long and you should consult a physician.

Way to much complaining and unrealistic expectations from you as pulling down ones flag would demonstrate.....

[RiverDog]

Football starts in the trenches, without decent line play nothing works, but it takes a special talent to do what Russ has been able to do once the guys up front give him the room to operate. We're damn lucky to have him.

Hear Hear Bob..


I agree that a very large reason for Russell's woes was poor play up front. But even so, he was still screwing up. Those offensive linemen didn't suddenly pull their heads out and start playing like Pro Bowlers anymore than Russell did.

Jeez RD you sure you aren't Future/Savvy? Id love to have seen Brady, Manning(benched), Luck (LMAO)Rodgers(very average this year), any of them do any better than Russ with what was happening most of the first 10 weeks in general.
Now the guy is breaking all time records and you still cant lose the chub. Its gone on for 4 weeks too long and you should consult a physician.

Way to much complaining and unrealistic expectations from you as pulling down ones flag would demonstrate.....

Unlike some, my opinion about Russell's first 9 games hasn't changed because of his past 5. Perhaps someone needs to bump some old threads. About the only one in here that was defending Russell's play was Anthony, and he left the forum because he was so humbled by the rest of us. Now all of a sudden, everyone thinks Russell's play wasn't so bad after all.

As far as my expectations go, I was/am expecting another SB appearance because I know what this team is capable of. Do they differ from yours?

[burrrton]

Unlike some, my opinion about Russell's first 9 games hasn't changed because of his past 5.

Mine hasn't either- he was actually playing pretty well, even in the first 9-10 games, despite the fact that he did run into a couple sacks here and there and missed some open receivers. He was still on pace to have career highs in completion % among other things, wasn't he?

My question to you would be: do you think RW finally figured out it was OK to stand in the pocket to deliver passes, and finally learned where the open receivers were, and finally worked hard enough on his accuracy that he didn't miss them very often?

Or do you think 99% of the improvement came from the o-line which allowed RW to be the same RW without having to panic about a collapsing pocket, etc?

I think the answer's obvious.

[RiverDog]

Mine hasn't either- he was actually playing pretty well, even in the first 9-10 games, despite the fact that he did run into a couple sacks here and there and missed some open receivers. He was still on pace to have career highs in completion % among other things, wasn't he?

My question to you would be: do you think RW finally figured out it was OK to stand in the pocket to deliver passes, and finally learned where the open receivers were, and finally worked hard enough on his accuracy that he didn't miss them very often?

Or do you think 99% of the improvement came from the o-line which allowed RW to be the same RW without having to panic about a collapsing pocket, etc?

I think the answer's obvious.

I'm not going to say that 99% was due to the OL's improvement like you have, but yes, obviously they have improved immensely. And I never questioned Russell's accuracy. Yes, he was off some, but poor throws wasn't what was holding us back. It was his poor decisions that was dragging us down. Scrambling when he didn't have to, holding onto the ball too long ala TJack, not throwing short to open receivers.

Here's some of the factors, in no particular order, that IMO explains the rapid improvement of our offense:

1. Russell's play. He's getting the ball out of his hands quicker, not waiting for longer routes to develop, taking what the defense gives him, trusting his OL more.

2. The offensive line play. We had a lot of new blood playing new positions. Plus there was one huge change at center. Clearly that was one of the biggest, if not the biggest, reason for our improvement.

3. Losing Jimmy Graham. We were forcing the ball into him a lot. Without him, we are spreading the ball around more. Not that any of that was Graham's fault.

4. ADB. He's getting more separation than he did before. Can't explain why. And No E is taking the top off the defense. With more time to throw, Russell has been able to allow No E the time to get behind the defense. Both those guys seem to be getting the targets that were going to Graham, and they've really come through.

Russell wasn't the sole reason for our woes, IMO not even the largest reason. I never said that he was. He just wasn't taking that next step and adjusting to the changes in our offense like he has recently. Maybe it was Bevell that was to blame, but clearly he's a different quarterback. It's not just the OL that has improved.

[burrrton]

Scrambling when he didn't have to, holding onto the ball too long ala TJack, not throwing short to open receivers.

Right- the question is: did RW suddenly learn he didn't have to scramble, could get rid of the ball more quickly, and hit open receiver on short patterns? Or did the line gel and afford him the opportunity to do all those things without panic and self-preservation overriding it all?

I agree with you that "improved QB play" has been a factor, but my opinion is that the "improved play" was there all along but had no environment in which to shine. You seem to be placing the blame for those shortcomings on RW, rather than on the line, when those shortcomings only exist when the line sucks.

I don't know- maybe it's just a semantic game or picking nits.

He just wasn't taking that next step and adjusting to the changes in our offense like he has recently.

The only change I've seen is an o-line blocking well (and maybe better play design, but I don't know that).

[HumanCockroach]

I'll go with Warren Moon, Pete Carroll and the rest of the coaches, and Wilson himself. BOTH improved. Why people still can't admit that Wilson held the ball to long and wasn't delivering it quickly is beyond me. The coaches have said it, Wilson has said it, HOF QBs have said it, Baldwin even eluded to it.

The Line wasn't playing well, that's a fact, but Wilson certainly wasn't doing them any favors by refusing to deliver the ball underneath to OPEN receivers. By all means, go back and watch some of the all 22 films from earlier in the season. In all honesty, Wilson HAS figured something out. Something CRITICAL for sustained success, IMHO he was so desperately attempting to lose that "game manager" moniker, that he forgot a critical QB basic. That is to take what the defense gives you. QBs like Brady, Manning, Montana etc. Made their CAREERS doing it. Big plays are great, but holding the ball forever waiting for them will sink an offense. Rothlisberger holds the ball forever to, but even he checked down to secondary reads far more often than Wilson was for the first nine games.

Ultimately, Wilson AND the line improved, BOTH created this success, BOTH deserves credit, and BOTH deserved blame. This "Wilson deserves all credit, and never deserves blame" mantra, is the battle cry of fanboys, the SAME battle cry of Luck jock sniffers, or Futures claims about Kaepernik.. Truth is, no QB is perfect, none, none ever have been, none ever will be. The trick is consistency, week in and week out, and Wilson for all of his magic, wasn't that until recently. He was consistent enough for success, and certainly made your jaw drop multiple times, the difference IMHO is that he seems to have grown to the point now of being able to recognise WHEN that needs to happen, and takes what is given the rest of the time.

His short and midrange decision making has improved drastically, he is getting the ball out of his hand, trusting his receivers and reads, and making quick decisive throws.

[monkey]

Two things I believe. First, Russell Wilson is RIGHT NOW, the single best Qb in football. Period. Browns coaches who are about to be fired for not being good at their job can put him in any teir they like, but unless they are saying that Wilson is the nfl's best Qb, they are wrong.
Second, the idea that suddenly Wilson has just turned it on, or has suddenly "gotten it", is a bunch of nonsense.
Wilson has always had this level of play in him, he just hasn't had the opportunity until now.
What's happening is more a combination of improved line play, and a change in what is being asked if Wilson by the coaches than it is Wilson suddenly getting it, though he has improved. Mostly because he's trusting his line more now.
Simply put, the coaches are asking more of him up compensate for the losses of Lynch and Rawls, and to a lesser d degree, Graham.
This is no mirage either, He's just this good.

[curmudgeon]

Much improved execution offensively. Still concerned with the defense though......

[HumanCockroach]

Two things I believe. First, Russell Wilson is RIGHT NOW, the single best Qb in football. Period. Browns coaches who are about to be fired for not being good at their job can put him in any teir they like, but unless they are saying that Wilson is the nfl's best Qb, they are wrong.
Second, the idea that suddenly Wilson has just turned it on, or has suddenly "gotten it", is a bunch of nonsense.
Wilson has always had this level of play in him, he just hasn't had the opportunity until now.
What's happening is more a combination of improved line play, and a change in what is being asked if Wilson by the coaches than it is Wilson suddenly getting it, though he has improved. Mostly because he's trusting his line more now.
Simply put, the coaches are asking more of him up compensate for the losses of Lynch and Rawls, and to a lesser d degree, Graham.
This is no mirage either, He's just this good.

I agree with the first part, which is why I started this thread( and have continued to add to it every time he adds a new accomplishment) in the first place. I don't deny credit were it's due, just like I don't abstain from criticizing when play isn't good either...

That said I have to ask. So your saying the coaches were asking Russell to not throw to the wide open guys underneath, hold the ball an obscene length of time, scramble into sacks, and refuse to get rid of the ball when nothing was there? That surely doesn't seem likely to me, in fact that seems absolutely ludicrous...

His play has improved, as has the line, as I said all those months ago, it's a TEAM sport, Wilson isn't absolved from that. He most certainly could have helped a struggling line by doing what he is doing now, in week one, until now. If he had, we might be discussing a different undefeated team, I'm not sure WHY he hesitated to take what was there, but the truth it's he did. He HAS admitted it publicly, at this point, it makes zero sense denying that he was being genuine when he said it, because that HAS changed, and it has directly impacted the success of the offense overall.

[NorthHawk]

I think that Monkey hit it with the trust up front observation.
It seems to me that early in the year he was looking for an escape route right from the snap and now he's looking downfield.
Pressure often causes a QB to do odd things like hold onto the ball too long or throw into coverage. It's part of trying to do too much and considering his big contract he was probably trying to justify it at some level.
He doesn't seem to get the "Happy Feet" and his body language looks far more comfortable after the snap and in the pocket.
A good run game helps a lot, too so all in all the remedy was and is better OL play than what we saw early in the year.

[RiverDog]

Right- the question is: did RW suddenly learn he didn't have to scramble, could get rid of the ball more quickly, and hit open receiver on short patterns? Or did the line gel and afford him the opportunity to do all those things without panic and self-preservation overriding it all?

I agree with you that "improved QB play" has been a factor, but my opinion is that the "improved play" was there all along but had no environment in which to shine. You seem to be placing the blame for those shortcomings on RW, rather than on the line, when those shortcomings only exist when the line sucks.

I don't know- maybe it's just a semantic game or picking nits.

The only change I've seen is an o-line blocking well (and maybe better play design, but I don't know that).

Of course, Russell didn't suddenly learn that he didn't have to scramble. But neither did the offensive linemen suddenly learn how to hold their blocks. At no point was I putting the entire blame on Russell. I do blame his performance for more than the 1% that you have. That's like Anthony saying Russell had zero blame for the SB49 pick.

Oh, one factor I didn't include in my previous post was the change at center from Nowack to Lewis. IMO that made a huge difference.

[RiverDog]

I'll go with Warren Moon, Pete Carroll and the rest of the coaches, and Wilson himself. BOTH improved. Why people still can't admit that Wilson held the ball to long and wasn't delivering it quickly is beyond me. The coaches have said it, Wilson has said it, HOF QBs have said it, Baldwin even eluded to it.

The Line wasn't playing well, that's a fact, but Wilson certainly wasn't doing them any favors by refusing to deliver the ball underneath to OPEN receivers. By all means, go back and watch some of the all 22 films from earlier in the season. In all honesty, Wilson HAS figured something out. Something CRITICAL for sustained success, IMHO he was so desperately attempting to lose that "game manager" moniker, that he forgot a critical QB basic. That is to take what the defense gives you. QBs like Brady, Manning, Montana etc. Made their CAREERS doing it. Big plays are great, but holding the ball forever waiting for them will sink an offense. Rothlisberger holds the ball forever to, but even he checked down to secondary reads far more often than Wilson was for the first nine games.

Ultimately, Wilson AND the line improved, BOTH created this success, BOTH deserves credit, and BOTH deserved blame. This "Wilson deserves all credit, and never deserves blame" mantra, is the battle cry of fanboys, the SAME battle cry of Luck jock sniffers, or Futures claims about Kaepernik.. Truth is, no QB is perfect, none, none ever have been, none ever will be. The trick is consistency, week in and week out, and Wilson for all of his magic, wasn't that until recently. He was consistent enough for success, and certainly made your jaw drop multiple times, the difference IMHO is that he seems to have grown to the point now of being able to recognise WHEN that needs to happen, and takes what is given the rest of the time.

His short and midrange decision making has improved drastically, he is getting the ball out of his hand, trusting his receivers and reads, and making quick decisive throws.

That's exactly how I see it.

Here's a very good example of one of the things that Russell wasn't doing earlier in the season:

http://mynorthwest.com/292/2830776/Broc ... s-Carolina

Granted,it was only one play, it was Carolina with a very good, experienced defense, and Brock goes to great lengths to explain how it wasn't Russell's fault that we got ourselves into 3rd and 9 to begin with, but it demonstrates the types of things that Russell wasn't doing earlier in the year that he is doing now. He's not missing opportunities like that one now. He's seeing things much better.

The point is that Russell was a little more than 1% of the reason why this offense wasn't working. Hell, that one play alone accounts for more than 1%. That one busted red zone 3rd down play was huge.

[Hawk Sista]

Russell Wilson is now and has always been, PERFECT! The separation is in the preparation, baby. Of course he has evolved. It was a rough start this season, for sure.

The stat that I like best is that he is 30th in # of attempts this year and 7th in TDs. We are 2nd in the league in rushing with Beast out. We are like 5th in yards in 7th in scoring and 2nd in each of those categories on D. One day at a time.

[burrrton]

But neither did the offensive linemen suddenly learn how to hold their blocks.

Er, I think that's precisely what happened (along with getting the calls correct, working together properly, etc).

Perhaps 99% is over the top, though. RW was doing some uncharacteristic things early on that can't fairly be laid at the line's feet.

[RiverDog]

Perhaps 99% is over the top, though. RW was doing some uncharacteristic things early on that can't fairly be laid at the line's feet.

Thank you.

For some reason, I feel compelled to re-state a post I made earlier in the thread:

I'm as tough a critic as there is, and even I have to admit that this is one of the most impressive 5 game runs any quarterback I've witnessed since I started watching football over 55 years ago. I've seen quarterbacks like Marino and Fouts put up some huge games, but not 5 in a row and not after things had been so horrid prior to a run like this. It's been that mind boggling. If I have anything negative to say about this streak, it's that he, or rather we, didn't turn it around a month earlier. Better late than never.