kalibane wrote:I kind of give Peterson a pass on his over discipline of his children. He was wrong but he was also just following the same methods he was raised with. I'll reserve judgment on him being a POS based on how he behaves going forward. It's just not easy to throw away a life time of indoctrination.
Zorn76 wrote:There were times on the sideline where AP just looked totally disinterested in the game, even during the 1st quarter.
And, yes, that's understandable to a certain degree, as they were getting their butts handed to them.
If nothing else, though, you have to assume a leadership role, stay focus, and do Everything you can to fire up your teammates under those circumstances. In short, Minnesota more or less threw in the towel collectively. The point isn't that they were going to come back and win, but rather fight through adversity and continue to play hard until the game's over.
That's exactly what we've seen our team do all season. Getting whipped in some games early, but staying the course and fighting until we were back in games, before losing them late. It's easy to pat yourself on the back when things are going well, quite another when going up against the kind of resistance we put on them.
If I'm Zimmer, the character they showed yesterday - or lackthereof - is what I'd be most pizzed about.
kalibane wrote:I kind of give Peterson a pass on his over discipline of his children. He was wrong but he was also just following the same methods he was raised with. I'll reserve judgment on him being a POS based on how he behaves going forward. It's just not easy to throw away a life time of indoctrination.
kalibane wrote:It's commonplace where he was raised though Riv. My father was raised in the same kind of sub culture where if you did wrong the adults made you go pick out the switch yourself. There is also a big cultural component that I will get into if you want but it may derail the discussion into something else. You really can't spank someone with a switch without leaving marks. When you are taught that's the way to discipline children it's really not that much different than growing up in a particular religion or denomination.
Unless your brain is wired similar to mine (and it's not always a good thing) to analyze everything through the prism of logic (thus question everything) most people just accept what they grew up with as reality with only time or an intervening circumstance that makes it personal and gets them to rethink their position. It's like how a lot of people are against race mixing or are anti-gay right up until their child comes out of the closet or they have a mixed race grand child. Hopefully (for his kids sake) last year is that intervening circumstance for him.
It can be summed up with it's the difference between being taught what to think vs. how to think. Take your father in law. He felt a loss of control, recognized it and altered his behavior accordingly. He knew how to think. Someone who's taught what to think just assumes that loss of control is how it's supposed to feel.
kalibane wrote:It takes more than public sentiment for people to throw out the values that they were raised with. I actually am fine with the courts getting involved. What he was doing was abuse and ignorance doesn't excuse you. I'm just saying it doesn't make him some kind of misanthrope when he was only modeling what he was taught.
I didn't model that at all as an adult, neither did any of my siblings. I may have spanked my kids once or twice and they were not angels by any means. I have lived my belief that any person has to stand on their own two feet as an adult and figure out right from wrong regardless of their upbringing. Its an explanation, not an excuse.Dont parent if you don't want to do the work
kalibane wrote:Of course he was over the line. That's not the point. And it's also common sense that traditional gender roles are passé. Still people are raised all over the country in communities where women are supposed to tend to the home and children and despite all the evidence out there to the contrary they think that's the "right" way to live.
Most people just don't "figure out" that the way they were raised is wrong simply because they are exposed to competing ideas for the first time at 22 years old. Peterson grew up in rural Texas where he was disciplined in the same way he disciplined his kids. In his mind, it worked for him, it will work for his kids. And like a lot of the rhetoric out there these days, all these people against corporal punishment are just being politically correct and too soft on kids. Spare the rod, spoil the child. People still cling to that verse and think they are being good Christians.
It takes more than public sentiment for people to throw out the values that they were raised with. I actually am fine with the courts getting involved. What he was doing was abuse and ignorance doesn't excuse you. I'm just saying it doesn't make him some kind of misanthrope when he was only modeling what he was taught.
Vegaseahawk wrote:Great post Riv, you nailed several aspects of this issue that reflect my own views.
Another point to consider. One can consider using the brain as the disciplinary tool rather than the staff. When I was a kid, I would've much preferred the ass whuppin to a week of restriction any day, although I received both many times..
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