HawkShack.com

by **Hawktawk** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:24 pm

I've made the case for tough games the past 3 weeks and I've been right vs. the Steelers and dead wrong about the other two. This is another intriguing game. Browns open as a 14 point dog. I have had the feeling all year that the Browns players would rather play with and for Manziel than anyone else on the roster. Last week a defensive unit that had 17 sacks in the previous 12 games had 9 on Gabbert which was the most in any NFL game by one team all year. The offense rushed for over 230 yards and the Browns won handily despite losing the TO battle 2-0.Hartline and Hayden were lost for the season after the game.

Manziel has averaged 330 passing yards his past 2 starts with 2 TD's and 2 picks one of which was a horrible decision. He is 2-1 as a starter this season. Anyone on this forum knows I've kind of been on this kids bandwagon a little over the past 2 seasons and now the day of reckoning draws near. He will be looking across the field at a guy who made him lots of money, a guy to whom he has been compared and will be compared to good or bad throughout the game. He will be looking across the line of scrimmage at a nasty defense and he will not be able to hear. How will Johnny Football respond?

I have no feel for this game at all. I hope its like the last 2 but these cant miss games worry me.

by **c_hawkbob** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:33 pm

I don't see anyone other than the odd Manziel fan still comparing him to Russ. (not that you'r all that odd ...

)

by **Hawkstar** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:50 pm

I'm looking forward to the moment that Johnny tries take off on a scramble and quickly realizes the Hawks LB's are faster than he is. Not to mention twice his size...

Can the RB by committee do enough to keep a defense honest - that's the only question I have going into this game.

by **Zorn76** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:56 pm

I'll admit that the kid has had some decent moments here and there for the Browns, but he's in for a rude awakening this Sunday.

I also believe our team is as focused as they can be, and won't for a second be looking past anybody. Count can't the W ahead of time, but there is a reason we're favored by 14+ at the moment.

Seahawks 38 - 10.

by **NorthHawk** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:00 pm

I think in a lot of people's eyes Manziel compares to Wilson with the mobility, creativity, elusiveness, and height.
What can't be compared are self awareness in how others perceive him, intelligence, and work ethic.

by **RiverDog** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:44 pm

NorthHawk wrote:I think in a lot of people's eyes Manziel compares to Wilson with the mobility, creativity, elusiveness, and height.
What can't be compared are self awareness in how others perceive him, intelligence, and work ethic.

Manziel's going to have his hands full, going up against the best defense in football that hasn't allowed a TD in the past 8 quarters and he's going to have to communicate in the loudest venue in the league with a unit that he's been working with for just two weeks. If he comes in here and has a great game, then my hat's off to him, but the way this is setting up, he's going to be in for a very, very long day.

by **Hawktawk** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:47 pm

Roger Staubach recently made a direct comparison between Wilson and Manziel. Of course he also called Roger Goodell Pete Rozelle a few days ago at an NFL function. He corrected himself and pointed out he had had several concussions in his career at which point Goodell laughed....

Nobody will debate who is the more quality person, more mature, hardworking.And certainly Russ has already done many things some guys never do and other things nobody has ever done before. The only comparable thing is the styles of play and the self confidence they both seem to have.

I agree with RD, its set up for a long day for Johnny getting pummeled, picked, stripped and watching the robo QB template carve up his defense. Thats what should happen right?
I'm just curious to see.

by **Seahawks4Ever** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:46 pm

Forget Baltimore, this is the game that could be a "trap" game.

Why? Easy, because many of our players especially on defense are battered and could be described as walking wounded. Heck, even Kam Chancellor is hurt so bad he might not play on Sunday. Shead hurt huis ankle and came out, he had to go back in when Burley also hurt his ankle. There is a player who has been in the league since 2012 that might get his first start taking Kam's place. Then there will be inexperience in the offensive backfield and that has got to affect the timing of our offense.

Don't get me wrong, I still believe we are going to win, but not by 14 or more points. Believe me, Manziel is going to give our defense fits, and he will move the ball. But, he is going to make mistakes and I expect a big day for our secondary.

by **RiverDog** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:04 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Roger Staubach recently made a direct comparison between Wilson and Manziel. Of course he also called Roger Goodell Pete Rozelle a few days ago at an NFL function. He corrected himself and pointed out he had had several concussions in his career at which point Goodell laughed....

Nobody will debate who is the more quality person, more mature, hardworking.And certainly Russ has already done many things some guys never do and other things nobody has ever done before. The only comparable thing is the styles of play and the self confidence they both seem to have.

I agree with RD, its set up for a long day for Johnny getting pummeled, picked, stripped and watching the robo QB template carve up his defense. Thats what should happen right?
I'm just curious to see.

As far as the Wilson/Manziel comparison goes, Russell is faster (Russell runs a 4.5 40, Manziel is closer to a 4.7), more elusive, and has better mechanics. And that's before we get into the intangibles of work ethic and leadership, where even the most feverish of Manziel supporters would agree that Russell has it in spades over Johnny Football. The best thing you could say about this comparison is that Johnny Manziel is a poor man's Russell Wilson. They're really not all that similar.

These comparisons are being made by the media to generate interest. No one else cares about this game, so they need something to add some spice to an otherwise dull matchup.

by **Zorn76** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:44 pm

Manziel shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Wilson, all things considered.

by **Hawktawk** » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:12 am

I hope to be celebrating another laugher like the last 2. I love those type of games with the way my heart is. But I am one of the guys who feels that Manziel plays like a poor mans Wilson so I have to be somewhat concerned dont i?
Seahawks4ever makes a valid point about how beat up our defense is getting.
At any rate the LOB turned in miserable performances in 2 of their last 3 home appearances with nearly 900 passing yards and 60+ points surrendered to the Cards and Stealers.Manziel is an upgrade over the last 2 guys we have played in Clausen and Bridgewater and I suspect he will cause some problems at times Sunday.
I see it as a scrappier game than some expect but too much Wilson and Johnny will make one of those bad throws the wrong way to put it away.

I dont feel a sense of foreboding about the game but if I were a betting man Id take the 14 points.

by **Seahawks4Ever** » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:56 am

Well, we cut RB Harris and resigned a T.E. because Luke Wiilson's ribs are hurt. It is probably just a precaution but it is possible Luke doesn't play against the Browns. The next couple of weeks is going to see just how much depth we have. We didn't start out the season with a lot of depth but the #2our guys off of the bench have been developing really well.

What I expect this Sunday is for us to win and nail down a play off spot. That would be in conjunction with other teams losing, of course.

What I expect for our last home game against St. Louis is to win and nail down that #5 play off seed. That would be awesome, I don't one team in the NFC East that we couldn't dispatch fairly easily.

What I forsee going in to the last regular season game on the road at Arizona is for both teams to have nailed down their play off seeds and neither team having anything to play for except pride. I expect the Cardinals to nail down the #2 seed and a bye next Sunday hopefully not this Sunday, of course.

With both teams having little to play for in the last regular season game both teams can rest hurting players, especially our walking wounded. Since we will have no bye it may prove to be really important rest certain players and allow others to heal up before the big play off push.

There have been several teams to win 3 road play off games to make the Super Bowl and a few have actually won the Super Bowl so I know that the lack of a bye wopn't derail our Seahawks.

One game and one team we always have to watch out for is St. Louis, ever since Jeff Fisher became their head coach they have became a dirty cheap shot team and they are even worse when they appear to have little to play for. I used to respect Fisher when I watched his Titan team from afar, I never realized how much he preached dirty play. Add that dirt bag of a DC and I fear how many more of our guys will be hurt going forward.

The fact is, the Seahawks are the hottest team in the NFL accepting maybe the Panthers but maybe even including the Panthers.

The Panthers are chasing history and so at some point in some game they could choke up and play not to ,lose and end up doing just that. They barely defeated us when we were at our lowest ebb. The Seahawk team we have watched the last month would have kicked the Panther's behind, especially at home. The Panthers have been coming on the last few seasons and last season made the NFC Championship game only to fall to our defending champs. I could see where it could come down to Seattle and Carolina again in the NFC Championship game only this time the game played in Carolina. I really don't fear Green Bay or Arizona because I believe if we have enough players and the right players healthy or healthy enough to play we can beat anybody including the Panthers.

The Bengals season has probably been derailed with Andy Dalton breaking his wrist, it is too bad. I was looking forward to our Seahawks playing the Bengals in the Super Bowl and the chance of our Hawks defeating every team they had lost to earlier in the season and hoisting the Lombardi for the second time in 3 years.

Who knows if the Broncos can defeat the Patriots in the play offs? I have always envisioned our Seahawks playing the Patriots in a rematch of last season's Super Bowl with us coming out on top this time. I have thought about this scenario even obsessed about it. I have to admit, Rawls going down with a broken ankle really knocked me for a loop but we do have Marshawn Lynch coming back and what a story that WILL be when he comes off of the bench and unleashes BEAST-MODE on opposing teams. One thing going for him is that he will be well rested!

GO SEAHAWKS!!!!!!!

by **Mo the Toe** » Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:36 am

A Loss, A Limp, and a Lesson. Name 3 things that start with L that Johnny Football will leave Seattle with. Thought I'd throw a little Karnack into the Johnny Carson thread. Browns have good receivers in Hartline and Benjamin and a hot TE in Barnidge. I expect the Hawks to go after Johnny and not give him time to find his receivers. Hawks have their confidence back and something to prove at home. Gonna be tough for any qb playing for the first time at Quest. 34-13.

by **Hawktawk** » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:10 am

Hartline is injured and out for the season after huge game Sunday. Another Browns disadvantage...

by **obiken** » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:48 am

My friend in Cleveland says this is going to be a massacre. We are at home and a 15 point favorite in an NFL game. We are talking the Ducks vs. the Huskies here boys and girls, the most they can do is make it close!

by **Hawk Sista** » Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:37 pm

It is ok for fans to take the Browns lightly (though I personally never do); it is quite another for the team to take them lightly. If they do (which I highly doubt) it could well be a long day. But we are talking about a professional team with the playoffs on the line, so I think we will be just fine.

Johnny Football is a baller (meaning he is a gifted athlete). He's also a cocky child who will have most likely had too much to drink the night before. His money move and his lying-ass ways make it hard to root for him, otherwise I'd kinda like to pull for a short kid (with his skill set and on the field moxie) to make it. After acknowledging his problems and seeking treatment, I thought I could try, but he just keeps making it HARD. With his limitations throwing the ball (he simply doesn't have an NFL arm), he'd need to pour every ounce of himself into to preparation (that's where the separation is, folks) and he doesn't appear to be mature enough to do that. On a human level, I hope he gets control of his demons before they ruin him; I really do.

GO HAWKS

by **Hawk Sista** » Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:38 pm

Mo the Toe wrote:A Loss, A Limp, and a Lesson. Name 3 things that start with L that Johnny Football will leave Seattle with. Thought I'd throw a little Karnack into the Johnny Carson thread. Browns have good receivers in Hartline and Benjamin and a hot TE in Barnidge. I expect the Hawks to go after Johnny and not give him time to find his receivers. Hawks have their confidence back and something to prove at home. Gonna be tough for any qb playing for the first time at Quest. 34-13.

by **Hawktawk** » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:19 pm

In a poll of players naming the best athlete on their roster Manziel was named as the Browns best athlete. A teammate said of him," he is a scratch golfer and can dunk a basketball. Hes the type of guy who could not play ping pong for 10 years and pick up a paddle and beat you 10 of 10, hes that competitive".

Of course we all know the NFL isn't golf, basketball or ping pong LOL but the kid is a great athlete and competitor.His 3/4 delivery causes chronic elbow issues and there is debate about his arm strength. We shall see up close and personal about all that.

Anyone catch Pettines comments today? He said Wilson isn't a top tier QB but hes in the second group. He said Wilson fits the system and it fits him and can run better than Manziel because he is thicker and more durable but that Johnny can make some plays when he runs because he looks downfield.Considering Wilson's accomplishments and statistics it sounded like a bit of disrespect to Mr Wilson.

by **Hawkstar** » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:33 pm

Hawktawk wrote:In a poll of players naming the best athlete on their roster Manziel was named as the Browns best athlete. A teammate said of him," he is a scratch golfer and can dunk a basketball. Hes the type of guy who could not play ping pong for 10 years and pick up a paddle and beat you 10 of 10, hes that competitive".

Of course we all know the NFL isn't golf, basketball or ping pong LOL but the kid is a great athlete and competitor.His 3/4 delivery causes chronic elbow issues and there is debate about his arm strength. We shall see up close and personal about all that.

Anyone catch Pettines comments today? He said Wilson isn't a top tier QB but hes in the second group. He said Wilson fits the system and it fits him and can run better than Manziel because he is thicker and more durable but that Johnny can make some plays when he runs because he looks downfield.Considering Wilson's accomplishments and statistics it sounded like a bit of disrespect to Mr Wilson.

I read Pettines comments and thought "what an idiot" - why would a HC say ANYTHING about another QB that opened the door to come across as disrespectful? He gained nothing but looking like an ass and possibly providing one of the most prepared, motivated players a little more to play for. I predict the revolving door in the offices to the Cleveland coaching staff will be spinning again come Black Monday.

by **Hawktawk** » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:44 pm

Hawkstar wrote:

I read Pettines comments and thought "what an idiot" - why would a HC say ANYTHING about another QB that opened the door to come across as disrespectful? He gained nothing but looking like an ass and possibly providing one of the most prepared, motivated players a little more to play for. I predict the revolving door in the offices to the Cleveland coaching staff will be spinning again come Black Monday.

Yeah Hawkstar I thought the exact same thing. Unless this is some sort of weird attempt at reverse psychology it was absolute stupidity to make that comment.It will play out on the field. 15 point line or no I am fascinated by this match up and all the story lines.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:51 pm

Hawktawk wrote:In a poll of players naming the best athlete on their roster Manziel was named as the Browns best athlete. A teammate said of him," he is a scratch golfer and can dunk a basketball. Hes the type of guy who could not play ping pong for 10 years and pick up a paddle and beat you 10 of 10, hes that competitive"....Of course we all know the NFL isn't golf, basketball or ping pong LOL but the kid is a great athlete and competitor.His 3/4 delivery causes chronic elbow issues and there is debate about his arm strength. We shall see up close and personal about all that.

And your point is?

Hawktawk wrote:Anyone catch Pettines comments today? He said Wilson isn't a top tier QB but hes in the second group. He said Wilson fits the system and it fits him and can run better than Manziel because he is thicker and more durable but that Johnny can make some plays when he runs because he looks downfield.Considering Wilson's accomplishments and statistics it sounded like a bit of disrespect to Mr Wilson.

Are you secretly harboring some hopes that Manziel does well against us? You sure are talking him up.

by **Hawktawk** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:42 am

Are you secretly harboring some hopes that Manziel does well against us? You sure are talking him up.

Are you secretly on crack? Hello?

I am VERY PUBLICLY concerned about what this kid could bring to the table at a critical junction in the season.
If you think that constitutes rooting against my one and only NFL franchise to make some stupid point on the internet you are delusional buddy.
I never root for anybody against my team and will be very happy to celebrate an absolute thrashing of this kid and his team. I'm really hoping for a complete embarrassment and humiliation of the kid.
But I have been consistent from the time Manziel was drafted that I thought he was a player and now his skill or lack thereof will directly impact our teams task on Sunday.
Here he is, here it is.Showtime. I think its a very interesting game all factors considered.I hope I get 100 I told you so's after the game.

by **mykc14** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:38 am

Hawktawk wrote:Are you secretly harboring some hopes that Manziel does well against us? You sure are talking him up.

Are you secretly on crack? Hello?

I am VERY PUBLICLY concerned about what this kid could bring to the table at a critical junction in the season.
If you think that constitutes rooting against my one and only NFL franchise to make some stupid point on the internet you are delusional buddy.
I never root for anybody against my team and will be very happy to celebrate an absolute thrashing of this kid and his team. I'm really hoping for a complete embarrassment and humiliation of the kid.
But I have been consistent from the time Manziel was drafted that I thought he was a player and now his skill or lack thereof will directly impact our teams task on Sunday.
Here he is, here it is.Showtime. I think its a very interesting game all factors considered.I hope I get 100 I told you so's after the game.

Manziel can make special plays but he hasn't really shown that in the NFL yet. He has like 6 games with a significant number of attempts and has completed over 55% of his passes twice and over 60% once. He hasn't shown the dedication to the game that it takes to be successful at this level. He doesn't really worry me at all. I am not saying that he can't/won't make plays. He may even make a big play by scrambling around and getting outside of the pocket but I don't think there is any way he can do that consistently against our D. I don't think anybody needs to give you an 'I told you so' after the game its not like you were predicting us to lose, although we are way off on our projections for Manziel's career.

by **burrrton** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:23 am

Anyone catch Pettines comments today? He said Wilson isn't a top tier QB but hes in the second group.

I didn't think that "second tier" thing was so bad, simply because he drew the cutoff for "first tier" at 3 (iirc), and I don't think it's an outrageous insult to say RW is the 4th-best QB in the NFL (I might disagree, but I'm not indignant).

What I thought made him sound like a clueless tool was the rest of what he said, basically that RW is a 'system QB', that he's only considered so good because he benefits from our D and running game, etc.

In other words, he apparently knows about as much about Russell as your average 14 year old on espn.com message boards.

I was waiting for him to say "Yeah, we're planning to just keep him in the pocket where he struggles because of his height."

Let's hope his gameplan is as sophisticated...

by **RiverDog** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:34 pm

burrrton wrote:I didn't think that "second tier" thing was so bad, simply because he drew the cutoff for "first tier" at 3 (iirc), and I don't think it's an outrageous insult to say RW is the 4th-best QB in the NFL (I might disagree, but I'm not indignant).

What I thought made him sound like a clueless tool was the rest of what he said, basically that RW is a 'system QB', that he's only considered so good because he benefits from our D and running game, etc.

In other words, he apparently knows about as much about Russell as your average 14 year old on espn.com message boards.

I was waiting for him to say "Yeah, we're planning to just keep him in the pocket where he struggles because of his height."

Let's hope his gameplan is as sophisticated...

Yea, that first tier/second tier/elite/game manager characterizations doesn't bother me a bit. It kinda goes along with my feelings about individual awards and accolades. I don't get worked up about them as so many do. Heck, with the way some people act, calling Russell Wilson a game manager is analogous to calling their daughter a whore.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even coaches. Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers are two very different quarterbacks and do very different things for their teams. Russell's also still "paying his dues", so to speak, when compared to Rodgers and Brady, so he's not quite at that point where everyone has accepted him as an enduring performer. But he's getting there.

by **HumanCockroach** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:32 pm

Maybe RD, but IMHO when your daughter is the queen of whores you might not want to be calling the preachers daughter one, just because you feel like it. Wilson currently is one of the top three QBs in this league ( and by currently I do mean out literally based on his recent play. Honestly, I'm not sure how that's even debatable to anyone with a set of eyes.) prodding him or the Seahawks at this point is beyond stupid.

by **burrrton** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:44 pm

Heck, with the way some people act, calling Russell Wilson a game manager is analogous to calling their daughter a whore.

Nah, it's just that the 'game manager' shtick has been laid to rest alongside 'cannot pass from the pocket', in spades, so when someone purportedly 'in the know' calls him that, it says a lot about their knowledge of RW and nothing about RW himself.

And they get ridiculed for it.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even coaches.

You bet, and his opinion is what's getting him mocked.

by **NorthHawk** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:41 pm

I can understand how Pettine got into this mess.
Considering that franchise has been in turmoil from the top down, have a QB who might go off the rails at any time, his job being in jeopardy, Seattle isn't a team they usually have to prepare for, I can see how he might say something that would come out less than how he would prefer if he thought it through.

I can cut him some slack on this. After all, it's not as if the Seahawks need Bulletin Board material at this stage of their development.

by **RiverDog** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:07 am

HumanCockroach wrote:Maybe RD, but IMHO when your daughter is the queen of whores you might not want to be calling the preachers daughter one, just because you feel like it. Wilson currently is one of the top three QBs in this league ( and by currently I do mean out literally based on his recent play. Honestly, I'm not sure how that's even debatable to anyone with a set of eyes.) prodding him or the Seahawks at this point is beyond stupid.

You have a point and I agree with everything you said, but nevertheless, it still doesn't bother me to hear critical remarks like that, at least not as much as it does others.

Russell is in my estimation in the top 3-5 in the league, depending on what kind of criteria you use, top 1 if the criteria is the best QB for our team, but I can see how people might rate him a little less favorably, especially when he's being compared to guys like Brady and Rodgers that have been around awhile longer. Some people quite understandably might want a little more evidence before leap frogging him over guys like Rivers and Worthlessburger.

by **Hawktown** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:18 am

When I go on to articles that regard RW there is nothing but RW HATE being spewed about how NOT great he is and that he is STILL a game manager. I have always disagreed with this train of thought though I have criticized RW plenty at times.

My question is, since I do not peruse Johnny Football articles, does he get the same hate that RW does or is it really just because RW was too short for the league so idiots have their preconceived ideas about RW even though Johnny football is only an inch taller?

Next question. Is Johnny Football that much of a drunk/drug addict that his team needs to worry about him going off the hinges at any point? If he makes it to all practices, games and meetings, whats the problem? Why does drinking give this in particular kid a bad rep when there is drunks coaching, owners popping pills and plenty players/owners getting DWI's and then some? I bet if they tested the leagues front offices, half the league would be fired. When will we just accept people for who they are and scold them appropriately after they screw up not preemptively (thanks G Bush!)?

by **Hawktawk** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:18 am

Next question. Is Johnny Football that much of a drunk/drug addict that his team needs to worry about him going off the hinges at any point? If he makes it to all practices, games and meetings, whats the problem? Why does drinking give this in particular kid a bad rep when there is drunks coaching, owners popping pills and plenty players/owners getting DWI's and then some? I bet if they tested the leagues front offices, half the league would be fired. When will we just accept people for who they are and scold them appropriately after they screw up not preemptively

Hawktown,I completely agree. If the kid is over 21 and not breaking the law let him be himself as long as he does what he is supposed to on the field, in practice, and in study.

The junk Pettine said about Wilson shows he isn't ready for prime time along with his record and hopeless bungling of his quarterback situation.
He may well hold his view about Wilson being second tier but he was an idiot to fall for the bait and say it. The fact he feels that way makes me think he's lived in an igloo with no electricity the last month BTW.
Wilson is the best in the game right now.
Pettine also said "were not going to Seattle to curl up in a ball. Were going up there to compete". Trash talking Pettine. Good luck with that.
Pettine only has a job because after the shocking firing of Rob Chudzinsky a year ago nobody wanted to coach the Browns so they wound up with this guy. Even if Johnny does well enough for the Browns to want to keep him its going to be one of them or the other moving forward. Pettine can go run a day care.

by **RiverDog** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:27 am

Hawktown wrote:When I go on to articles that regard RW there is nothing but RW HATE being spewed about how NOT great he is and that he is STILL a game manager. I have always disagreed with this train of thought though I have criticized RW plenty at times.

My question is, since I do not peruse Johnny Football articles, does he get the same hate that RW does or is it really just because RW was too short for the league so idiots have their preconceived ideas about RW even though Johnny football is only an inch taller?

Next question. Is Johnny Football that much of a drunk/drug addict that his team needs to worry about him going off the hinges at any point? If he makes it to all practices, games and meetings, whats the problem? Why does drinking give this in particular kid a bad rep when there is drunks coaching, owners popping pills and plenty players/owners getting DWI's and then some? I bet if they tested the leagues front offices, half the league would be fired. When will we just accept people for who they are and scold them appropriately after they screw up not preemptively (thanks G Bush!)?

First off, I don't refer to negative criticism as 'hate'. That's a pretty strong term in my book and I hand it out very sparingly. But to answer your question, yes, I do think that there's a height bias regarding Russell, that some people refuse to accept him.

As far as Johnny Football's drinking problems goes, if it's to the point where he's lying to his head coach and trying to get others to lie for him, then yes, it is a serious problem. As far as it affecting actual on field performance, I haven't seen a lot of evidence that it has (other than not knowing the playbook 3/4 through his rookie season), but we don't always see everything from our vantage point.

But a lot of the problem with his drinking is that it creates perception and leadership issues. The game has changed since the days of Joe Namath and Paul Hornung. Players are much, much more visible than they ever were in the past. Quarterbacks are especially expected to represent the franchise in what they stand for, hence the term 'face of the franchise'. Manziel is acting like a spoiled frat boy, and the Browns have every right to expect him to conduct himself in such a manner that they're not having to explain things like photos of him rolling up 20 spots in a strip club bathroom. They're certainly paying for that expectation. I also suspect that some of his teammates would question his dedication if he's out partying hard during the bye week when his opposition quarterbacks (ie Russell) are studying film.

by **NorthHawk** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:18 pm

He promised the coaches and team that he would stay on the straight and narrow, then went out and partied.
That lost the trust of the mgmt, and probably the respect of the team.
It strikes me as a substance problem, but I don't know if it's just a disrespect of everyone attitude.
In either case, if a team can't count on their QB for whatever reason, they have a problem.

by **NorthHawk** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:24 pm

Hawktown wrote:When I go on to articles that regard RW there is nothing but RW HATE being spewed about how NOT great he is and that he is STILL a game manager. I have always disagreed with this train of thought though I have criticized RW plenty at times.

My question is, since I do not peruse Johnny Football articles, does he get the same hate that RW does or is it really just because RW was too short for the league so idiots have their preconceived ideas about RW even though Johnny football is only an inch taller?

Next question. Is Johnny Football that much of a drunk/drug addict that his team needs to worry about him going off the hinges at any point? If he makes it to all practices, games and meetings, whats the problem? Why does drinking give this in particular kid a bad rep when there is drunks coaching, owners popping pills and plenty players/owners getting DWI's and then some? I bet if they tested the leagues front offices, half the league would be fired. When will we just accept people for who they are and scold them appropriately after they screw up not preemptively (thanks G Bush!)?

That's the narrative about Wilson, that he's a system QB who can't throw from the pocket.
Coupled to that is the prejudice that he's too short.
People in the media and Football who say that are those that passed him by in the draft more than once and in some cases twice.
They're now bitter about his success and it shook their perceptions of what a QB has to be.
One of the last bastions of prejudice is the height or size factor at QB. Sure there is some advantage, but it's overblown and far outweighed by QB intelligence and athleticism.

by **Hawktawk** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:29 pm

RiverDog wrote:

As far as Johnny Football's drinking problems goes, if it's to the point where he's lying to his head coach and trying to get others to lie for him, then yes, it is a serious problem. As far as it affecting actual on field performance, I haven't seen a lot of evidence that it has (other than not knowing the playbook 3/4 through his rookie season), but we don't always see everything from our vantage point.

But a lot of the problem with his drinking is that it creates perception and leadership issues. The game has changed since the days of Joe Namath and Paul Hornung. I also suspect that some of his teammates would question his dedication if he's out partying hard during the bye week when his opposition quarterbacks (ie Russell) are studying film.

I can see where Manziel is giving Haslem/Farmer etc headaches but they are idiots to expect anything else.Pettine himself has said Johnny has done everything hes needed to on the field. I found the allegations of lying about the A&M weekend to be interesting.#1 why would Manziel lie? The film doesn't lie.#2 If he did lie how did we find that out? Same journalists that said Wilson wasn't black enough?I wouldn't be surprised if Pettine leaked it to cover his arse for making a very unpopular decision.

I think you are DEAD WRONG about Manziels teammates. I saw John Gruden interviewing all pro LT Joe Thomas just after the decision to re bench Manziel had been made. He sounded bummed he wasn't going to be able to play with the kid.
He had not one negative thing to say about him.Last year Thomas was a vocal critic so something has changed.
The team is 3-10 but Johnny is 2-1. Last Sunday a Cleveland defense with 17 sacks in 12 games hung up 9. A miserable Cleveland rushing offense went off for 230.
Yeah it was the 9ers at home but my point is the team seems to play harder for Johnny. How far that gets them is yet to be determined but he makes them more dangerous IMO.

by **NorthHawk** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:05 pm

Joe Thomas might just be an excellent team mate and consummate pro.
I don't know much about him other than he's a very good/pretty solid LT who has yet to miss a play in his career.
Beyond that, I don't know much about the man, but his dedication to playing through pain shows a lot about his character and what type of team mate he is.

by **RiverDog** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:06 pm

Hawktawk wrote:I can see where Manziel is giving Haslem/Farmer etc headaches but they are idiots to expect anything else.Pettine himself has said Johnny has done everything hes needed to on the field. I found the allegations of lying about the A&M weekend to be interesting.#1 why would Manziel lie? The film doesn't lie.#2 If he did lie how did we find that out? Same journalists that said Wilson wasn't black enough?I wouldn't be surprised if Pettine leaked it to cover his arse for making a very unpopular decision.

I think you are DEAD WRONG about Manziels teammates. I saw John Gruden interviewing all pro LT Joe Thomas just after the decision to re bench Manziel had been made. He sounded bummed he wasn't going to be able to play with the kid.
He had not one negative thing to say about him.Last year Thomas was a vocal critic so something has changed.
The team is 3-10 but Johnny is 2-1. Last Sunday a Cleveland defense with 17 sacks in 12 games hung up 9. A miserable Cleveland rushing offense went off for 230.
Yeah it was the 9ers at home but my point is the team seems to play harder for Johnny. How far that gets them is yet to be determined but he makes them more dangerous IMO.

Manziel lied about the time that the video was taken, and tried to get others to go along with his story.

I didn't say that Manziel has leadership issues. I do not know if he does, but neither do you know that he doesn't. You cannot take what a teammate might say in public as a rousing vote of support as most don't want to air their dirty laundry in public and can be counted on to make the calculated, politically correct statement. What I said was that drinking and acting like a spoiled frat boy creates leadership problems. I haven't seen any evidence that it has yet in Manziel's case, but you can't deny that it has that potential.

by **Hawktawk** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:25 pm

RiverDog wrote:
I didn't say that Manziel has leadership issues. I do not know if he does, but neither do you know that he doesn't. You cannot take what a teammate might say in public as a rousing vote of support as most don't want to air their dirty laundry in public and can be counted on to make the calculated, politically correct statement. What I said was that drinking and acting like a spoiled frat boy creates leadership problems. I haven't seen any evidence that it has yet in Manziel's case, but you can't deny that it has that potential.

That is all true speculatively speaking. One could flip to the other side of the coin where some teammates were allegedly upset with Wilson being a little too white/popular/commercial/attention wh*re etc.

Being too good is a better problem than being too bad IMO . Ultimately though Wilson is just so damn good on the field his teammates follow him and trust him. And thats the bottom line. Be good and win.
Russ has already had a great career by that measure.

Johnny has a long ways to go...............................................

by **EmeraldBullet** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:37 pm

Anyone else think we might get a taunting penalty after sacking j-manny? If I was a DE/DT it would be too tempting not to do it.

by **RiverDog** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:42 am

EmeraldBullet wrote:Anyone else think we might get a taunting penalty after sacking j-manny? If I was a DE/DT it would be too tempting not to do it.

ehhh, probably not this particular Sunday, unless we're blowing them out. We have too much at stake. But I hear what you're saying.

HawkShack.com

Who is online