Beckham Suspended

[RiverDog]

Any of you been following this?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14416 ... d-one-game

Beckham had 3 personal foul penalties, including one dangerous and flagrant head-to-head contact away from the play. IMO the one game suspension was appropriate, although as usual, it's being appealed by the union.

Apparently prior to the game, Beckham was threatened with a baseball bat, accompanied by some trash talking including anti gay slurs directed at Beckham, by one of the practice squad players, an act that supposedly put Beckham in a certain mindset. The Panthers responded that the bat is a tradition with them, representing to "hit a home run" and to "bring the wood."

Should teams be allowed to bring props like baseball bats onto the field? What's the difference between bringing a bat on the field and bringing a knife or a gun and using it to threaten opposing players? I know that in college some teams will bring props onto the field. Boise State brings a sledge hammer onto the field during introductions. Is that any different than a bat in that it's generally not thought of as a weapon?

[Hawktawk]

I was waiting for someone to jump on this or I was going to. Once again its the tabloid version of the NFL. The bat thing, eh I don't know why a piece of non football gear is on the sidelines period. The league should be able to stop that real easy. As for gay slurs or homophobic to be PC its likely very common in the middle of scrums. Is Beckham coming out by complaining about that?

Norman went at Beckham and put a lick on him the first play of the game too so as far as the overly physically aggressive play he started it. IMO if Beckham misses a game Norman should too. He was throwing punches and taking cheap shots all day and Courtland Finnegan is a little snot nosed punk as well and I'm sure he wasn't blameless.

But here's the bottom line. Those refs didn't miss it. They allowed it. They weren't going to send two superstars to the showers and so it was 3 hrs. of blood sport. Now the league has to try to clean up the mess the refs left steaming on the field. Coughlin didn't yank the kid either which surprised a lot of people but I understand with rank comes privilege. Nobody else on the field can do what Beckham does, sort of like LT in the day.

I guess I didn't have the amount of problem with ODB's response to Normans bullying. He sure isn't going to take a lot of smack is he?

[Hawkstar]

Beckham should have received a 2 game ban. The diving shot head to head shot well after the play was ridiculous. He's lucky Norman wasn't injured. Given how late the hit was and how clearly the intent was, IF Norman was injured, could the authorities step in?

Norman and the Officials should each miss a game as well. At one point Norman picked Beckham up and body slammed him; right in front of the Official ~ who did nothing! \

It's mind numbing to think of all the ticky-tack illegal touching flags thrown on 3rd downs this season that extend drives and have a direct impact on the outcome of the game, and then watch a WWE match break out without any flags thrown.

[RiverDog]

I was waiting for someone to jump on this or I was going to. Once again its the tabloid version of the NFL. The bat thing, eh I don't know why a piece of non football gear is on the sidelines period. The league should be able to stop that real easy. As for gay slurs or homophobic to be PC its likely very common in the middle of scrums. Is Beckham coming out by complaining about that?

Norman went at Beckham and put a lick on him the first play of the game too so as far as the overly physically aggressive play he started it. IMO if Beckham misses a game Norman should too. He was throwing punches and taking cheap shots all day and Courtland Finnegan is a little snot nosed punk as well and I'm sure he wasn't blameless.

But here's the bottom line. Those refs didn't miss it. They allowed it. They weren't going to send two superstars to the showers and so it was 3 hrs. of blood sport. Now the league has to try to clean up the mess the refs left steaming on the field. Coughlin didn't yank the kid either which surprised a lot of people but I understand with rank comes privilege. Nobody else on the field can do what Beckham does, sort of like LT in the day.

I guess I didn't have the amount of problem with ODB's response to Normans bullying. He sure isn't going to take a lot of smack is he?

The anti gay slurs came in pre game warm ups, not in the middle of a scrum. I didn't see Beckham complaining about them. I believe the issue was brought up by other observers.

Norman should be fined, but IMO Beckham's PF to the head in a situation that was away from the play was what drew the ire of the league. It was completely uncalled for and put the defender at risk of serious injury, something that the league is really cracking down on. I can understand the difference in discipline.

I agree with Hawktalk about the baseball bat or other props. There is no practical purpose for them other than symbolism. They need to be told to leave them off the field.

[Hawk Sista]

Beckham took what was overly scrappy play and ramped it up a few notches. Both should be held accountable. Norman w/ fines and an admonishment and Beckham w/ fines and a suspension of a game or two. The officials and coaches are not blameless, though the players themselves are grown men.

Here's hoping Beckham learns from this. He's a very gifted man heading down a familiar crazed prima donna path for WRs. After a great play the week before, we noticed that his teammates were ignoring him on the sidelines. I hope he gets it together.

[Hawktawk]

Beckhams hit on Norman certainly looks like an intentional spear but it isn't that far from the play and the whistle had not blown. And Norman had intentionally punched him in the head earlier in the play It went both ways all day. Beckham was a little nastier, looked stronger but Norman picked the fight.
Norman should have been suspended as well but with an undefeated team and NFL darling there was no way and I knew it.

Honestly there's no excuse for what was allowed to go on. I blame the refs. Id say they lost control but really they didn't. They just let it go.

[mykc14]

Beckhams hit on Norman certainly looks like an intentional spear but it isn't that far from the play and the whistle had not blown. And Norman had intentionally punched him in the head earlier in the play It went both ways all day. Beckham was a little nastier, looked stronger but Norman picked the fight.
Norman should have been suspended as well but with an undefeated team and NFL darling there was no way and I knew it.

Honestly there's no excuse for what was allowed to go on. I blame the refs. Id say they lost control but really they didn't. They just let it go.

I agree with this for the most part, but would add that beckham was suspended specifically for that one hit, as he should have been. It was nasty and intentional. Norman, collectively, was just as dirty but didn't have that type of hit, although I wouldn't have had a problem if they would have suspended him. It was embarrassing for both teams, both players, and certainly the officials.

[RiverDog]

Good point about the refs and coaches, particularly the coaching staffs. This all started in the pre game warm ups, and they should have nipped it in the bud. The baseball bat should definitely have been kept off the playing field.

[NorthHawk]

PFT has a report that there may be something more than the bat thing.
They say there are comments that they were making gay remarks against Beckham starting with his hair.
Afterwards some of the comments touched on him being feminine, so there might be something to it.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... gay-slurs/

[RiverDog]

PFT has a report that there may be something more than the bat thing.
They say there are comments that they were making gay remarks against Beckham starting with his hair.
Afterwards some of the comments touched on him being feminine, so there might be something to it.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... gay-slurs/

The players that were taunting Beckham were part of the practice squad, which begs the question WFT are the practice squad players doing on the game day field anyway? Nevertheless, I don't see where the taunts are a huge deal. If he is that thin skinned that he's going to let practice squad players get into his head hours before the game, then his problems have only just begun. Even fans will pick up on it and start taunting him. Like Russell says, ignore the noise.

I agree with keeping the bat and any other props that represent potential weapons off the field, mainly because there's no point to having them on the field.

[Hawktawk]

Giants have video showing a Carolina player approaching Beckham with a bat in his hand pregame.The Panthers are every bit as complicit.Why is it that a blow to a head of a QB nets a flag and fine but repeatedly punching a pro bowl reciever in the head and body slamming him draws nothing?

Suspend them both or neither. Its just more NFL gerrymandering based on the team logo IMO. Its more WWF all the time.

[RiverDog]

Giants have video showing a Carolina player approaching Beckham with a bat in his hand pregame.The Panthers are every bit as complicit.Why is it that a blow to a head of a QB nets a flag and fine but repeatedly punching a pro bowl reciever in the head and body slamming him draws nothing?

Suspend them both or neither. Its just more NFL gerrymandering based on the team logo IMO. Its more WWF all the time.

Suspend who from the Panthers? The guy with the baseball bat? He was a practice squad player.

Nothing of what Norman did rose to the level of suspending him, and even if they did suspend him, the union would appeal and the league would end up with more egg on its face. Heck, even Beckham's suspension might end up getting overturned.

[Hawktawk]

Nothing of what Norman did rose to the level of suspending him, and even if they did suspend him, the union would appeal and the league would end up with more egg on its face. Heck, even Beckham's suspension might end up getting overturned.

I said suspend both or neither. I hope Beckham's IS overturned in light of everything thats being discovered.If the refs didn't have the stones to throw anyone out of the game its stupid and overreaction to retroactively suspend one guy when really its splitting hairs saying the other wasn't intentionally doing things that could injure as well.

Healthy fines and I mean healthy are whats warranted but let the players play. Nobody turns on their TV to watch refs throw flags or Goody announcing the suspension of a superstar for a little bit of jacked up gamesmanship. Did Deion Sanders and Andre Rison get suspended for that literal fistfight they had years ago? I dont recall but it isn't like this is unprecedented.Ive seen Finnegan punch people when he was a Titan. Jurevicious was brutally physical with DBs.I remember seeing him fling DB's to the ground one handed while running down the field.

Beckham head butting Norman is hardly James Harrison attempting to behead a QB a few times a year. I swear they cant get it right in the league office.

[NorthHawk]

Healthy fines and I mean healthy are whats warranted but let the players play.

Unfortunately or not, the CBA limits the amount of fines any player can receive.
I think it depends on his salary up to a maximum, but I could be wrong.

[HumanCockroach]

I think people are forgetting that Beckham has already had these types of issues just earlier this season. At which time the NFL chose to levy that awe inspiring 7k fine.The truth is, if they aren't going to suspend Pac Man for assaulting Cooper earlier this season on the field, and are going to find players more for grabbing their junk, or wearing pink to honor a deceased loved one, than IMHO they have no one to blame but themselves.

It's stupid in every way it can be, and yet, I blame the bass ackwards way the NFL handles these things More than I blame either player. The "lines" are foggy at best, downright stupid at worst.

Edit: sorry 8k...

http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/footbal ... -1.2388396

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ear ... d-into-it/

[c_hawkbob]

My opinion?

The gay slur: So what? If you think "you're a f_g" is the worst thing said on the field during warm ups you're cute, but naive.

The bat: So what? They've been used as motivational props forever, I was on a team that passed around a Louisville Slugger as a "stick of the week" award. Carolina has used them as motivational props on other occasions, it isn't something that was done just for Odell. Hell Jack Del Rio used an Oak stump and an ax as motivational props (and got two of his players injured!) ... bat's are nothing. As for pointing a bat at Odell, he'd said himself in an interview that the way to defend him was to "get in his head", to get him off his game ... they were just following instructions.

The body slam and other penalties were penalized as appropriate and the refs even talked to the coaches and told them to get their players under control.

Now the not so what: Beckham should have been ejected for the launched earhole shot, that's a potential career-ender. the after game suspension and fine are appropriate.

The refs should be fined for letting the game get out of hand and Tom Coughlin and the Giants should be fined for not pulling their player after the earhole shot even if the Refs didn't.

[EmeraldBullet]

If ODB isn't actually gay why is he even offended by the slur?

And really? Scared of a baseball bat on the field? That's just ridiculous. As to why there was a bat on the field that doesn't really seem necessary (although I could see swinging a bat to get loose as a good way to warm up before the game, but not if it's a practice squad player...)

I didn't think any of the PFs were that bad other than ODB's hit to that Normans head. I agree with the suspension.

[RiverDog]

If ODB isn't actually gay why is he even offended by the slur?

And really? Scared of a baseball bat on the field? That's just ridiculous. As to why there was a bat on the field that doesn't really seem necessary (although I could see swinging a bat to get loose as a good way to warm up before the game, but not if it's a practice squad player...)

I didn't think any of the PFs were that bad other than ODB's hit to that Normans head. I agree with the suspension.

He gets teased about his hairdo and apparently he has feminine mannerisms.

I'm pretty much with CBob on this one, with the exception of the props. Pre game taunts and props is no excuse for on field behavior. I'm not even sure that it was Beckham that was complaining.

But I do think that the props should be banned simply because they serve no practical purpose. I mean, why not bring an M16 on the field?

[Hawktawk]

Ron Rivera has banned bats from the Carolina sidelines. One would think the league would follow suit.

[EmeraldBullet]

Anyone else think beckham might actually be gay?

[c_hawkbob]

Anyone care if he is?

[RiverDog]

Anyone care if he is?

Not me, but I'm sure that someone would care.

[Hawktawk]

I could care less if Beckham is gay as long as he doesn't go the Micheal Sam route trying to make it some sort of social crusade. He is a stud reciever and would be welcome on my teams roster anytime.
I'm stunned Goody hasn't cracked down on the gay slurs at this point.One would think the NFL can control behavior pregame if thats what it takes.

Guys lost their jobs over a bullying scandal and in the PC world this is worse IMO.

[RiverDog]

I could care less if Beckham is gay as long as he doesn't go the Micheal Sam route trying to make it some sort of social crusade. He is a stud reciever and would be welcome on my teams roster anytime.
I'm stunned Goody hasn't cracked down on the gay slurs at this point.One would think the NFL can control behavior pregame if thats what it takes.

Guys lost their jobs over a bullying scandal and in the PC world this is worse IMO.

If gay slurs were being used during the game, he might come down on it, but this was in warm-ups.

I'm not saying it's either OK or that they should attempt to ban that type of language, but this type of taunting pales in comparison to the abuse players like Jackie Robinson had to endure.

[c_hawkbob]

If gay slurs were being used during the game, he might come down on it, but this was in warm-ups.

I'm not saying it's either OK or that they should attempt to ban that type of language, but this type of taunting pales in comparison to the abuse players like Jackie Robinson had to endure.

Yeah, and interesting isn't it that it took him from pregame warm ups till the middle of the third quarter to go off about the bat and the gay slurs?

[Hawktawk]

Yeah, and interesting isn't it that it took him from pregame warm ups till the middle of the third quarter to go off about the bat and the gay slurs?

Sure Bob but honestly its 2015, not the good or bad old days however one looks at it. I'm not what anyone would call PC and Ive been dragged kicking and screaming to this conclusion.
But to be fair how can any player or employee of an NFL team be able to get away with using racial or gay slurs on the premises of an NFL stadium these days?Its astounding to me.Thats what should net a suspension or termination like any other industry. That would stop it.
Beyond that what place do baseball bats have on the field pregame?It seems like those are legitimate issues that need fixed regardless of whether it was a Beckham pr move to bring it up.
The punishment was unevenly administered.IMO neither should have been suspended but it should have been both if they were suspending one. Norman started the nonsense right away and should have drawn several early flags but didn't.His aggressive and illegal behavior head butting, slapping, punching is what caused Beckham to "go off" as you say. He was at least an equal participant throughout the game including punching Beckham a few seconds before the "launch" play. On that play the whistle had not blown and the Giants player was fighting for yards.The contact was in the area of the play. Of course Beckham did exactly what he wanted but guys launch all the time and aren't suspended unless they are habitual offenders.

But concussion just got released and the league had to make a show of making a stand.But they weren't suspending the all pro CB from the undefeated league darlings so Beckham was the sacrificial goat.

[c_hawkbob]

Yeah, and interesting isn't it that it took him from pregame warm ups till the middle of the third quarter to go off about the bat and the gay slurs?

Sure Bob but honestly its 2015, not the good or bad old days however one looks at it. I'm not what anyone would call PC and Ive been dragged kicking and screaming to this conclusion.
But to be fair how can any player or employee of an NFL team be able to get away with using racial or gay slurs on the premises of an NFL stadium these days?Its astounding to me.Thats what should net a suspension or termination like any other industry. That would stop it.
Beyond that what place do baseball bats have on the field pregame?It seems like those are legitimate issues that need fixed regardless of whether it was a Beckham pr move to bring it up.
The punishment was unevenly administered.IMO neither should have been suspended but it should have been both if they were suspending one. Norman started the nonsense right away and should have drawn several early flags but didn't.His aggressive and illegal behavior head butting, slapping, punching is what caused Beckham to "go off" as you say. He was at least an equal participant throughout the game including punching Beckham a few seconds before the "launch" play. On that play the whistle had not blown and the Giants player was fighting for yards.The contact was in the area of the play. Of course Beckham did exactly what he wanted but guys launch all the time and aren't suspended unless they are habitual offenders.

But concussion just got released and the league had to make a show of making a stand.But they weren't suspending the all pro CB from the undefeated league darlings so Beckham was the sacrificial goat.

Sorry Bro, just can't agree with most of that ...

First the whole point about it taking until the third quarter for him to react to the slurs and feeling threatened with the bat is that I don't believe it! I think it's what Dione Sanders and Ray Murder felt that they could pass off as the reasons their boy didn't deserve a suspension. There is no substantiation of the slur and I think the bat was just a lucky prop (used in other games against and by other teams) that happened to be available as a hook for Prime to wail about.

Secondly the action on the field was handled properly IMO up until the earhole shot. Penalties were handed out as the infractions took place and both sidelines were told to get control of their players. Where the ball was dropped was in the ref's failure eject Beckham for his head shot which was by far the most egregious infraction of the entire game. Wether it happened between the wistles or not is totally irrelevant. It was vicious, intentional and potentially career ending.

And finally there is NO bigger "league darling" right now than Beckham so I ain't buyin' that angle at all.

[RiverDog]

Yeah, and interesting isn't it that it took him from pregame warm ups till the middle of the third quarter to go off about the bat and the gay slurs?

Precisely. That was as B.S. of an excuse as I've ever heard. Besides, how are a bunch of bums not good enough to make an NFL roster going to get under the skin of an All Pro player to such a degree that it would preoccupy him for hours during such a monumental task as going up against a 13-0 opponent, arguably the best team in they league? Plus I never heard Beckham himself use that as an explanation for his behavior.

To his credit, Beckham did apologize for his actions after his suspension was upheld.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="c_hawkbob"]Sorry Bro, just can't agree with most of that ...

OK Bob Ill give you your due. A conspiracy theory is over the top.I still disagree with the suspension based on prior precedent. Suh intentionally put the full weight of his 300 pound body on the injured calf of all world Aaron Rodgers and stepped down and had his suspension lifted. And this was a guy who as we know had a rich history of using his feet inappropriately. So I dont get that decision other than the major focus on concussions.Beckham was reportedly not very contrite at his appeal so maybe that was a factor.

As far as what we can agree on do you and other forum posters believe or not believe it should be OK for an NFL player to taunt a player with gay slurs in 2015 America ? Set aside whether you believe Beckham was honestly motivated by the alleged slurs.Do you believe he made that all up ? That would be a pretty sophisticated lie.

[EmeraldBullet]

I believe it should be ok for a player to taunt however he wants to, as I believe firmly in the first amendment. I don't think being racist or gay bashing etc is right or a good thing, but I don't think it should be banned. Who gets to make the call on whats right or wrong? IMO people should be allowed to say what they want and what they feel, even if I disagree with what they are saying.

[c_hawkbob]

I don't think things overheard should be punishable because it's too easy to mishear or misunderstand what is being said. Short of a player grabbing a ref by the shoulders and enunciating it directly to his face, or into a camera, it's too easy for it not to be what you thought is was.

Besides, this isn't a night at the opera or a tea party in polite society, it's a bunch of alpha males that have grown up always being the toughest guy in whatever room they walk into each trying to exert their own will over other, the language is going to get salty. That's why the "mic'd up" segments are not real time.

[RiverDog]

I believe it should be ok for a player to taunt however he wants to, as I believe firmly in the first amendment. I don't think being racist or gay bashing etc is right or a good thing, but I don't think it should be banned. Who gets to make the call on whats right or wrong? IMO people should be allowed to say what they want and what they feel, even if I disagree with what they are saying.

It doesn't have anything to do with constitutional rights. It has to do with what kind of language, behavior, etc, is acceptable in the workplace. All employers have a right to insist that all of their paid employees, as well as vendors and any others they do business with, conform to a certain standard of conduct while they are on company time or company property. The league is fully within their rights if they decided that they wanted to ban any type of language, gestures, etc, in practices, games, or any other league or team event.

But in this case, I tend to agree with CBob. It's not a matter of whether it's right or wrong, it's a matter of practicality. There's no way they can enforce a gag order. They'd be heading down a slippery slope if they tried. Players are just going to have to do what all players since the invention of the game have had to do: Get rid of the rabbit ears and develop a thick skin.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="RiverDog
It doesn't have anything to do with constitutional rights. It has to do with what kind of language, behavior, etc, is acceptable in the workplace. All employers have a right to insist that all of their paid employees, as well as vendors and any others they do business with, conform to a certain standard of conduct while they are on company time or company property. The league is fully within their rights if they decided that they wanted to ban any type of language, gestures, etc, in practices, games, or any other league or team event.

But in this case, I tend to agree with CBob. It's not a matter of whether it's right or wrong, it's a matter of practicality. There's no way they can enforce a gag order. They'd be heading down a slippery slope if they tried. Players are just going to have to do what all players since the invention of the game have had to do: Get rid of the rabbit ears and develop a thick skin.[/quote]

OK RD I completely agree with what you say about practicality trying to police player behavior on the field, especially "salty" language. However the times they are a changing rapidly. Gay marriage is the law of the land, people are being sued and prosecuted for refusing to bake a cake for a gay wedding for instance. As you say it has nothing to do with the first amendment at this stage I cant imagine it will be very long before there is some sort of policy instituted by the league, probably already is. They will be forced to start paying closer attention to homophobic remarks which would be a positive outcome of this fiasco.

And this from a guy who got a lot of grief for saying I wouldn't want Sam on our roster...