NorthHawk wrote:His plays won us two games this year. That should be a big consideration and as well, practice and game attitude plays a large part in how valuable a player is to a team.
If you're counting the Detroit game as one of those, you might want to credit the officiating with 1/2 of that win.
burrrton wrote:[
No offense, and I tend to agree with how you feel about Kam right now, but I'm tired of hearing people try to make this argument.
It's a ridiculous, arcane rule that will likely be removed from the books this offseason, and KJ could have done literally anything else with that ball (dove on it, followed it out, etc). That he chose to use the one part of his anatomy that no one knew was illegal doesn't mean anyone has to thank the officiating for not penalizing him and giving DET an entirely undeserved bailout.
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RiverDog wrote:Oh, I agree with you 100%. IMO the ref made the right call and used his head to determine that the violation was not going to change the outcome of the play and that they need to revise that rule, give the ref the flexibility to use his own judgment.
But the fact remains that had that play been called correctly... and there were a lot of refs out there saying that they would have made that call... we lose that game.
And I agree, his pass coverage has been very spotty this season. His main job is to cover tight ends, and they've been the ones that have killed us this season. But it's hard to criticize any player on this defense. After all, we are the best points defense in the league for a 4th straight season.
He tried to jump a route thinking the receiver was going to continue with the out and instead ran right into the receiver who was running an out and up then pushed him down with both arms and you're saying it was offensive pass interference?
He guessed that it was going to be an out and stopped to go underneath in anticipation of making a play on the ball
I watched it again before I replied in the other thread.
HumanCockroach wrote:Kam has certainly had his issues, that said the two plays to the TE you attributed to him ( Panthers and Bengals) weren't his coverage ( Thomas was responsible for both.) The PI inn the Vikes game was crap. I don't care what anybody says about it. By rule offensive pass interference ( though 99% of the time just no call. Can't call penalties on offensive receivers don't you know)
He's had some poor plays, but he brings far more positives to the table then negatives. All players makes mistakes, he's no different.
kalibane wrote:I watched it again before I replied in the other thread. You are insane
You can argue about the semantics of "jumping a route" all you want but that's semantics. He guessed that it was going to be an out and stopped to go underneath in anticipation of making a play on the ball just like the next play he got beat on and missed the tackle because he tried to come underneath on the out pattern.
At the end of the day Kam guessed wrong, got caught flat footed and then extended BOTH arms which redirected Rudolph while the ball was in the air. It's textbook PI on the defense.
Offensive PI is laughable, Kam had no play on the ball and Rudolph wasn't pushing off to get open. The only argument for a no call is if Kam doesn't use his hands, as soon as he threw his hands out there it was over and it was the right call.
HumanCockroach wrote:Sorry Oly, Kam wasn't even on Olsen in the Panther game ( that was Sherm who passed him off to ET) Sherm was incredibly angry with Thomas. In Cincy it was Chancellor, but he was supposed to "sit" on the underneath receiver, twice he did what the call said to do. Neither time ( there was actually two times the same thing happened) Chancellor was responsible for the "underneath" receiver and did exactly what he was supposed to do ( honestly he also got vocally upset with ET on the field) seems to me, when there are three instances of different players getting angry with the same player for not doing what was called that the "culprit" is the guy the multiple different players are more than likely right...
That said there was definitely communications problems throughout the first part of the season ( and find out exceedingly interesting that once Mr. Williams was released that those types of miscommunication ceased. Makes me think that ET had to play his spot plus bail him out which put him out of position).
Anyway you slice it, Kams coverage skills never has been, and never will be what makes him special. He wasn't good ( in fact he was pretty horrible as a rookie, something I pointed out then) and it remains pretty mediocre, but average coverage skills can be compensated for, for a player that is "special" in every other area.
HumanCockroach wrote:Think back on all of Kams HUGE interceptions, were they him making a play while following the TE? Nope, in fact I can't think of a SINGLE pick that occurred while doing that, there may be one or two I have forgotten, but more often than not, it's him falling into a short zone, waiting for a crosser, or deeking the QB into making a throw that appears open but isn't. The Panthers pick six, the Broncos pick six, his pick off of Kaepernik in the NFCCG, ALL short zones, all NOT TE's and ALL HUGE plays. ...
...if Kam "knew he couldn't cover that area" I haven't a doubt in my mind that he would carry him deeper,he didn't, so IMHO that means Earl CAN actually cover that area, the coaches wouldn't call the play if he couldn't, and Kam wouldn't release the TE if he couldn't. ...
kalibane wrote:I watched it again before I replied in the other thread. You are insane
You can argue about the semantics of "jumping a route" all you want but that's semantics. He guessed that it was going to be an out and stopped to go underneath in anticipation of making a play on the ball just like the next play he got beat on and missed the tackle because he tried to come underneath on the out pattern.
At the end of the day Kam guessed wrong, got caught flat footed and then extended BOTH arms which redirected Rudolph while the ball was in the air. It's textbook PI on the defense.
Offensive PI is laughable, Kam had no play on the ball and Rudolph wasn't pushing off to get open. The only argument for a no call is if Kam doesn't use his hands, as soon as he threw his hands out there it was over and it was the right call.
Oly wrote:
I would agree with just about everything in your post, but I want to quote these to say what I think may have happened. I think that in the first 80 yards of the field, you're right on the money. But in the red zone, I think the importance of keeping the play in front of you increases, which is why I think that he has to give Earl another moment to get to the seam route. I think that Kam was thinking of the big play--pick, big hit, etc.--and just didn't consider if Earl would get there. I think, in that moment, he didn't "know" Earl couldn't get there because he wasn't thinking about it. It sounds like we agree on the coverage and how the short zone is played, but you have confidence that Kam did what he did because that is how it is drawn up or he chose wisely based on years of chemistry with Earl, but I think he just missed a wrinkle in red zone coverage.
But even aside from those plays, his coverage seems even worse than his typical average coverage abilities.
kalibane wrote:I watched it again before I replied in the other thread. You are insane
You can argue about the semantics of "jumping a route" all you want but that's semantics. He guessed that it was going to be an out and stopped to go underneath in anticipation of making a play on the ball just like the next play he got beat on and missed the tackle because he tried to come underneath on the out pattern.
At the end of the day Kam guessed wrong, got caught flat footed and then extended BOTH arms which redirected Rudolph while the ball was in the air. It's textbook PI on the defense.
Offensive PI is laughable, Kam had no play on the ball and Rudolph wasn't pushing off to get open. The only argument for a no call is if Kam doesn't use his hands, as soon as he threw his hands out there it was over and it was the right call.
Hawktawk wrote:Its the identical play to what Fitz tried with ET last week. Teams must be watching how Seattle safeties sit down in their zone and simply having receivers running in to them trying to get cheap calls. Arians head was redder than his hat but he and Fitz needed to F off.So did Aikman going on and on for several minutes about how it should have been a penalty on Seattle.
Same with last Sunday but they got it.Minnesota was desperate, running out of time and unable to move the ball.They tried to draw a flag but they dont have anyone that can take the top off like Lockette and Teddy cant throw it anyway so they tried this BS successfully.All Kam could do was move or fall down, the guy plowed right into him.It makes no difference where his hands were whatsoever. It was Horsechit X10.Wide left was poetic justice after that travesty ROFLMAO .
Hopefully after Carolls complaint the officials will watch for the OPI which was the correct call in both instances.
HumanCockroach wrote:Sorry Oly, just don't agree. The idea inside the twenty isn't to keep the play in front of you, its to keep the play in front of the end line. Otherwise, you are going to be giving up a TD 99.8% of the time. Personally I hate, HATE zone coverage that close to the goal line, but that's a personal thing, not a schematic thing. Seattle runs it a lot, always has, that said, there are calculated gambles that on that level are taken repeatedly. If Kam doesn't "sit" as was clearly what he was supposed to do, and they throw tho the underneath receiver it's still a TD and one Kam is directly responsible for. There's no "winning" in the situation. I guess we just completely disagree. I can live with its a bad call by Richard, or even a communication problem, or even Earl was out of position, or they were fooled by film study, our ET was trying to help Williams, but I just won't agree that was Kams fault for not knowing ET couldn't get there.
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