Jimmy Graham

[c_hawkbob]

Hello HawkShack members
1st time poster, long time Seahawk fan
I wasn't sure where to post my greetings, so I thought the Jimmy Graham thread would work fine, since I"m a big Jimmy guy.
Yes, he definitely needs to stay as he adds a great dimension to our offense, even if it wasn't shown as good as the hype was.
I really believe after this year, he can reflect and realize that our offense is a little different than the offense he had in New Orleans. Here we play a more fluid style of offense, where the play isn't dead if the pocket breaks down. I'm not sure he really understood that in the beginning, but upon retrospect he should understand it better. I also believe his blocking will be better, and I thought it was getting better as the year went on before he was injured. Again, I think its how fluid our offense is that makes knowing who to block a little more challenging.
I hope to see great things from him in the coming year and with him, Lockett and ADB, I really think Wilson will have a monster year.

Welcome aboard man. I'm with ya on Jimmy, I think we were just to the point that Russ and Jimmy had been working toward and that things were about to take off.

[savvyman]

Jimmy Graham is a special receiver who played great this year. Any failure was in the offensive coordinators ability to integrate his strengths into the offensive scheme.

Pete & John would be very stupid not to bring Graham back next year. Fortunately they are anything But.....

[monkey]

Couldn't agree more Savvyman.

[RiverDog]

Seems to me that you've already made up your mind about him. John Schneider completely disagrees with you, http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/1/22/10816104/seahawks-john-schneider-marshawn-lynch-jimmy-graham so do I.

I also stand by what I said, most often it does take a year for a free agent to really get with the new team, there are obviously exceptions as there always are, but the norm is that it takes some time to learn the ropes, and maybe just as much (especially in the case of Bevell), for the team to learn how to properly utilize their new weapon.
Graham is not the prototypical TE, what he is, is one of the biggest matchup nightmares in the entire league. If we cannot figure out how to properly utilize that, that certainly isn't Graham's fault, the fault lies with Bevell. Bevell can be frustrating at times, but I must say that this season I felt he did a better job of adjusting to the injuries, and adjusting to the offensive line problems better than I ever thought he would. I think that he'll figure out a way to use one of the leagues most dangerous players (Graham) and now that he's had him in his offense for part of a year, I expect him to figure it out this upcoming season.

I may be wrong, but I am going to give this team the benefit of the doubt at this point, they've certainly earned it!

Did you really expect Schneider to say anything different? Even if they were just hours away from a trade, you could count on PC and JS to put out the positive spin.

And I never, ever, said that any of Graham's problems here were of his own doing. Even his horrendous blocking is IMO more a function of his tall, lanky frame than it is his unwillingness to perform the task.

We'll see how he does in 2016, assuming he can come back from his injury. I just hope they figure out something different to utilize him rather than forcing the ball into him like we did this season. There were times that I got the impression that they were forcing things to him just to prove that the trade was actually a good one rather than it being the best way to win the game.

[NorthHawk]

I think a lot of Grahams issues early were Bevell trying to find out how best to use him and the requirement with the OL at that stage of development, that the TE help block.

[EmeraldBullet]

Graham also needs to learn how our offense functions (as mentioned before several times). To put it into an analogy, our offense is a jazz band that improvises, not a highly technical metal band. Too many times this year I saw Graham give up on a play that RW kept alive, and had Graham kept going down field it would've resulted in an easy TD.

[RiverDog]

I think a lot of Grahams issues early were Bevell trying to find out how best to use him and the requirement with the OL at that stage of development, that the TE help block.

Agreed. As young and inexperienced as our OL was, particularly early in the season, we needed a solid, blocking tight end that could take some pressure off our interior linemen. That's one of the reasons why I don't think this was a good fit, because we've never had a very good OL during PC's era, and there's not much assurance that anything is going to change in the near future.

[PTHawker]

I think there is two things the Hawks knew about Jimmy when they traded for him.
1) He can catch.
2) He cannot block.

Knowing he cannot block when they traded for him leaves me to believe he will never be traded because he cannot block.


I just don't understand why so many are so eager to trade one of the best if not top 2 TE's in the game.
I"ve come to the conclusion, that even if Jimmy became the best blocking TE, some of the first things any one will ever say is "he cannot block".

I doubt very seriously that Jimmy goes anywhere, my biggest knock on him is that he hasn't painted his plane from gold and black to Seahawk blue.

[RiverDog]

I think there is two things the Hawks knew about Jimmy when they traded for him.
1) He can catch.
2) He cannot block.

Knowing he cannot block when they traded for him leaves me to believe he will never be traded because he cannot block.


I just don't understand why so many are so eager to trade one of the best if not top 2 TE's in the game.
I"ve come to the conclusion, that even if Jimmy became the best blocking TE, some of the first things any one will ever say is "he cannot block".

I doubt very seriously that Jimmy goes anywhere, my biggest knock on him is that he hasn't painted his plane from gold and black to Seahawk blue.

He won't be traded because there is no way we can get anywhere near what we paid to bring him in here. That fact alone obligates our coaching staff to make another try at it. There's also egos involved: Pete and John's egos, and like all other NFL HC's and GM's, it's going to take more than a poor season to convince them that this was a bad trade and for them to cut their losses. It was their decision and by God they're going to make it work come hell or high water.

We'll see how he does next season. Assuming he comes back from his knee injury, I would like to see us use him differently than we did this past season. I would like to see us employ him more in a wide receiver role rather than lining him up as an inline tight end.

[NorthHawk]

I think we can position him at the TE spot, but not include blocking other than perhaps a chip on a DE. He could also play out of the slot on occasion, too but he should not have responsibility for a DE like we saw a few times last year. It's just not his game.
Play to his strengths. It will never get us into trouble.

[PTHawker]

Aside from being injured, which part of Graham's season was poor? By all right, he was having a steller season on a team that passes much less than most other teams in the NFL..
That the Hawks used him as they did, is not a fault of Graham and as you say, "I would like to see us use him differently than we did this past season" suggests that the Hawks didn't use him correctly. Further, I'm not sure why you don't think we couldn't get fair trade value from him, we gave up a so so center and a low 1st, we received Jimmy and indirectly got Lockett, I think that was a helluva deal for us. I would say, there would be about 28 to 29 teams out there that would love to have Jimmy.

[RiverDog]

Aside from being injured, which part of Graham's season was poor? By all right, he was having a steller season on a team that passes much less than most other teams in the NFL..
That the Hawks used him as they did, is not a fault of Graham and as you say, "I would like to see us use him differently than we did this past season" suggests that the Hawks didn't use him correctly. Further, I'm not sure why you don't think we couldn't get fair trade value from him, we gave up a so so center and a low 1st, we received Jimmy and indirectly got Lockett, I think that was a helluva deal for us. I would say, there would be about 28 to 29 teams out there that would love to have Jimmy.

Easy answer: Red zone production. He had one TD in the red zone, and that was completely contrary to the stated objective of bringing him in here in the first place.

I haven't done my homework, but my suspicion is that Graham had fewer receptions per target than any of our top receivers. That doesn't mean he was dropping passes, rather that we weren't doing a good job of getting him favorable matchups and were forcing the ball into him. Plus he wasn't a good blocker. I would rather see us shake things up a little, perhaps along the lines North Hawk was suggesting.

There is absolutely no way anyone is going to pony up a first round draft choice and a 29 year old Pro Bowl center even before Graham's injury let alone now that he's damaged goods.

[obiken]

So what do you suggest we do River? Cut our losses and cut him? Continue to march?

[RiverDog]

So what do you suggest we do River? Cut our losses and cut him? Continue to march?

A trade being highly unlikely, IMO we continue to march, and try to use him differently along the lines of what North Hawk has proposed. The only way I'd cut him is if he can't return from his injury and keeping him on the roster would be a liability and prevent us from keeping a better player.

[PTHawker]

Well, perhaps Jimmy wasn't getting red zone production because we weren't giving him favorable match ups, which Drew used to do all the time, and like you mentioned.. It didn't help that Russ was running for his life and was all Russ coubld do to stay out of danger. You remember that right?. Add to that, as per PC, the team was playing through some major distractions as well as SB hangover and Russ was a big part of that issue. If you want to lame it on Jimmy, fine, but he was the new kid on the block and was excited as anybody ever to play here and had no distractions.

We gave up a 1st round draft choice and a 29 year old center for Jimmy.

[RiverDog]

Well, perhaps Jimmy wasn't getting red zone production because we weren't giving him favorable match ups, which Drew used to do all the time, and like you mentioned.. It didn't help that Russ was running for his life and was all Russ coubld do to stay out of danger. You remember that right?. Add to that, as per PC, the team was playing through some major distractions as well as SB hangover and Russ was a big part of that issue. If you want to lame it on Jimmy, fine, but he was the new kid on the block and was excited as anybody ever to play here and had no distractions.

We gave up a 1st round draft choice and a 29 year old center for Jimmy.

Agreed. That was one of the points I was trying to argue, ie that we need to use him differently, try to find a way to get him in more favorable matchups.

I am not and have not laid anything about this subject on Graham himself. He is who he is.

The trade definitely hurt us this season as we lost a Pro Bowl center, although I'll admit that he was often injured, but not unlike others along our OL, specifically Okung. At least early on, the inexperience at that position hurt us dearly as the Nowak experiment fizzled. We also would have had a good chance at finding a decent player in the draft with the #31 overall that might have contributed this season.

But that's all water under the bridge. Let's hope Graham can contribute next season.

[THX-1138]

Graham is awesome. The team apparently really likes him and he is a fantastic receiver. He likes being here from all accounts as well. He was just coming into his own as the offense was starting to show some spark.

No brainer. Graham stays.

[Zorn76]

"While ACL injuries happen at the rate of approximately 30-plus per year in the NFL (only counting those suffered while playing games), patellar tendon ruptures are in the single digits."

http://espn.go.com/blog/stephania-bell/ ... o-recovery

Just a quote from the link above...

We'll see what happens. As we know, this no "ordinary" ACL type of injury, and it's anybody's guess how he responds to its rehab. And there probably isn't much the team can learn between now and March concerning a prognosis. Only playing in his first game back gives a real assessment. I get why Pete and John are looking to keep him (at least they say), but it also wouldn't surprise me in the least if they change their mind. Probably won't happen since March is right around the corner, but you never know.

I liked the trade when it happened - it certainly made sense - and losing Unger (who missed several games in '14), I felt we could recover from. The OL would've been a mess if he had stayed. Perhaps we would've seen a few less sacks overall, but the difference likely is negligible in terms of how much further we would've gone this season in the playoffs.

I hope the best for Jimmy's return.

[monkey]

Graham is awesome. The team apparently really likes him and he is a fantastic receiver. He likes being here from all accounts as well. He was just coming into his own as the offense was starting to show some spark.

No brainer. Graham stays.

This ^^^ Short and to the point.
Everyone knew Graham wasn't much of a blocker BEFORE trading for him, he's done his best to get better at that, it's on the coaching staff who gave up the 1st and Unger to get him, to figure out how to use him. This discussion is pointless, we're not going to trade him, and there is absolutely no reason to, the guy is a WEAPON, why would we trade or cut that away???

[obiken]

This ^^^ Short and to the point.
Everyone knew Graham wasn't much of a blocker BEFORE trading for him, he's done his best to get better at that, it's on the coaching staff who gave up the 1st and Unger to get him, to figure out how to use him. This discussion is pointless, we're not going to trade him, and there is absolutely no reason to, the guy is a WEAPON, why would we trade or cut that away???

Uhh, Not really Monkster, its not. IF what Zorny says is true cutting him to save the cap may be the ONLY option. Sorry, I hope I am wrong.

[Hawktawk]

I have experience with Jimmy's injury. 16 years ago at age 40 I ruptured my left Patella. My injury was compounded by falling on a large porcelain planter and cutting my knee in the exact area it had just failed. The surgeon actually used that wound as the "incision" to repair the tendon. I had a lot of problems, eventually 4 surgeries over 3 years and it was 90% at best. I still did the things I liked such as pick up basketball, golf, etc. but just never quite as well.
I realize he is getting world class medical care and rehabilitation but I am definitely concerned about how rapidly or fully he recovers from this. Cruz missed another entire season in NY.

[obiken]

Right, the Hawks are going to have a tough decision on this one. Gamble that he comes back to form, or cut our losses now. Either way there is no easy road to the corral.

[PTHawker]

I have experience with Jimmy's injury. 16 years ago at age 40 I ruptured my left Patella. My injury was compounded by falling on a large porcelain planter and cutting my knee in the exact area it had just failed. The surgeon actually used that wound as the "incision" to repair the tendon. I had a lot of problems, eventually 4 surgeries over 3 years and it was 90% at best. I still did the things I liked such as pick up basketball, golf, etc. but just never quite as well.
I realize he is getting world class medical care and rehabilitation but I am definitely concerned about how rapidly or fully he recovers from this. Cruz missed another entire season in NY.

There is no doubt this is a serious injury and could keep Graham out longer than sooner. Hopefully, medical practice on this sort of injury has improved and that, and I don't know if there is a degree of injury for this or if the injury is the same if it's a minor one or a major injury, recovery is better.

It's not being talked a lot, which is a little disconcerting since if it was a easy fix, people would be talking about him being back, but since, no one is, I get the impression it's everyone holding their breath.

Never the less, Jimmy has had a great attitude, team mates seem to like him, PC and JS like him and ultimately, we will be a better team with him than without him. Teams do not often get this chance of having a 1 or 2 type TE that can dominate a game and if he fails I can't imagine it would be him but rather the system that fails.

[NorthHawk]

The addition of Graham was a good move when looked at it singularly as an addition to the Offense, but they took a huge gamble by punching a big hole in the OL when they let Carpenter go supposedly without really competing for his services. They also gave up a first round pick that I at least, tend to forget about.
There's an old saying that whoever gets the best player of the bunch wins the trade. At the time a game changing weapon, if they can get the ball to him was something every team wants to find. Unfortunately, early in the season showed the gamble wasn't much of a winner until the OL was patched, and then came the injury.
If he never recovers to 100%, we will never know if this was a good trade or not.

[RiverDog]

If he never recovers to 100%, we will never know if this was a good trade or not.

I don't know if I would put it like that. I'd rather say that if he never recovers to 100% that we'll never know if this trade was a good idea or not. If he doesn't contribute at least to the minimum expectation for whatever reason, it's a bad trade. Same with Indy drafting Emtman. The reality is that it was a wasted pick even though it had the potential to be a huge success.

But I hear what you're saying. It would be very difficult to second guess this trade if he doesn't pan out due to an injury.