Hats Off To the Panthers.

[mykc14]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/newton-wants-black-qb-issue-put-away-for-good/ar-BBp2v1N?li=BBnb7Kz

Ok. That's all we want to hear Cam. Kudos for a very well thought out and eloquent speech addressing the controversy and putting the focus where it needs to be, on the game. I feel a lot better about the issue.

But still...
GO DENVER!!!!
So in other words get to Vegas and bet the house on Carolina

That is too funny. He is getting mad about people questioning him about being a 'black-quarterback' when he is the one who started the whole controversy by saying "I'm an African-American QB and that scares people." What did he expect. The media always blows things out of proportion, especially the week before the SB. If he doesn't make that statement in the first place this is a non-issue.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="mykc14

That is too funny. He is getting mad about people questioning him about being a 'black-quarterback' when he is the one who started the whole controversy by saying "I'm an African-American QB and that scares people." What did he expect. The media always blows things out of proportion, especially the week before the SB. If he doesn't make that statement in the first place this is a non-issue.[/quote]

Obviously I'm in the camp that was pretty hot about what he said earlier in the week. However, while Cam is never going to say he's sorry this statement is sort of saying he's at least sorry he made such a big deal out of it without actually saying it. That's my read on it. Its some of the most mature things I've heard the young man say although in fairness I'm not following him as closely as his fan base. I'm happy he said this, I would almost say proud of him. I'm letting it slide and getting ready to watch a stress free SB for the first time in 3 years.

Go Donkeys!!!!!!!

[RiverDog]

That is too funny. He is getting mad about people questioning him about being a 'black-quarterback' when he is the one who started the whole controversy by saying "I'm an African-American QB and that scares people." What did he expect. The media always blows things out of proportion, especially the week before the SB. If he doesn't make that statement in the first place this is a non-issue.

Yea, what a pompous jerk. How anyone can look themselves in the eye for having defended this idiot is beyond me. In one breath, he accuses anonymous fans of being racists and in the next breath he complains about reporters bringing up race and pledges to "put it away for good"? What a hypocrite.

If he were to have gained any respect from me, he would have admitted to having made a mistake by making his "black quarterbacks scare people" statement and asking if the reporters can move on from the subject and not talk about race. It wasn't talked about hardly at all two years ago when Russell Wilson was starting in SB 48 and not at all last year.

[Hawktawk]

Yeah well Russ was "too white" right? I believe behind Doug Williams he was the second black man in history to win a Super Bowl and it didn't even draw a mention.
Ill always contend he was snubbed of the MVP trophy due to bias of some sort or another as well. Not blaming race though.
I think it was more that they weren't going to further embarrass the iconic Manning as well as a lot of people unwilling to admit they missed the boat on evaluating Wilson by an ocean or two.

[kalibane]

I will never understand why just because people personally don't have a problem with race they find it objectionable when it's pointed out that there are still a lot of people who do.

People have been debating all year about Cam's celebrations on the field and whether it's appropriate, whether it's being a good role model and the coup de gras being an open letter published in a newspaper aghast over a child being subjected to his "pelvic thrusts". All this was done in the same league where Aaron Rodgers has an entire national add campaign built around his pelvic thrust celebration and Travis Kelce is the biggest dancing fool in the league. And then there is the irony where this woman was so outraged at Cam's Pelvic Thrust (which I'm not even sure really happened because I think that was the "Dab" game, in that particular dance) that she directed her child's gaze at cheerleaders? Okay.

There is no need for you to be uncomfortable with the topic of Race if race truly doesn't bother you. Cam (and other black QBs) do get tons racially based hate mail that they would not get if they were white and they would not get if they weren't the QB. The fact that he is the (presumptive) MVP of the league as a "Black QB" does in fact bother more people than you realize (evidently). What he said was an off the cuff remark and it was a fact. Next time Aaron Rodgers gets asked about his celebratory trade mark, call me. It doesn't mean you have to feel sorry for him, it doesn't mean he's asking you to. He's just putting context around a lot of the criticism he receives regarding his on field behavior.

[kalibane]

Russ winning did draw a mention as being the 2nd so you're misremembering that. His MVP thing though I don't even think can be called a snub. We couldn't even decide here who the MVP should be. Opinions ranged from they got it right to, Kam to Avril to Wilson.

[mykc14]

People have been debating all year about Cam's celebrations on the field and whether it's appropriate, whether it's being a good role model and the coup de gras being an open letter published in a newspaper aghast over a child being subjected to his "pelvic thrusts". All this was done in the same league where Aaron Rodgers has an entire national add campaign built around his pelvic thrust celebration and Travis Kelce is the biggest dancing fool in the league. And then there is the irony where this woman was so outraged at Cam's Pelvic Thrust (which I'm not even sure really happened because I think that was the "Dab" game, in that particular dance) that she directed her child's gaze at cheerleaders? Okay.

There has been debate about it but race wasn't mentioned until Cam himself brought it up. Cam has been celebrating like this every since he got into the league and nobody really paid attention. He has FINALLY put together a very good season and his comments and celebrations make it seem like he has been the best player in the league for his entire career. I don't doubt some people don't like Cam because he is black, but like I said before, those people also don't like the other black QB's in the league. He is not polarizing because he is a black QB, he is polarizing because of his college history, entitled attitude, excessive celebrations, and now because of his off the field comments. I would also agree with Sis, who said it does have something to do with the position he plays. His celebrations coming from a WR or RB wouldn't bother me as much.

I don't really like Rodgers 'discount-double check' celebration either, because it seems like a 'look at me' celebration. IMO it is along the same lines as Cam's superman that he does after his TD's. Would anybody be shocked if Cam's 'superman' or stupid 'first down point and shrug' were turned in national adds if they win the SB? I certainly wouldn't. I might even think they are sort of funny like some of the discount double check commercials. Heck, Lynch's refusal to speak to the media was even turned into a national add campaign.

[kalibane]

Because you honestly think someone is going to go on national TV and say they are criticizing Cam because of his race. Do you just think I'm dumb or something? Because I'd honestly rather you just say that rather than insult my intelligence with that kind of comment.

Cam probably wouldn't be complained about if he acted like Russell Wilson. But that is the WHOLE point. White QBs can get away with acting the way Cam does (which is really nothing more than playing with joy and exuberance they way Brett Favre was LOVED for doing, playing the game like a kid) and they do not inspire any kind of national discussion about sportsmanship. But the second a good black QB does then there has to be a debate about it. Go down the line of black QBs if they were any good and did not play the keep your head down game a la Russell Wilson, Warren Moon, Steve McNair... they get picked apart. Meanwhile no one cares about Phillip Rivers world class trash talk, he's colorful. No one picks apart Brady for his petulant and abusive behavior towards officials, he's a fiery competitor. No one calls Aaron Rodgers sportsmanship into question based on his discount double check. They build an ad campaign around it. And it doesn't matter if you claim it bothers you personally because there is no national debate about any of it.

Again... does that mean you need to feel sorry for him. No. But acting like HE is race baiting or some thing like that simply because he's acknowledging a fact is ridiculous. You can't create a controversy for simply stating something that is true. The controversy comes from people who desperately don't want to believe it is the truth. Maybe you don't have a problem with him because he's black. I seriously doubt anyone on this form does. But there are enough people who do that it is still driving a national conversation. And if you just can't square yourself with that idea coming from me then go read his twitter mentions for a week and get back to me. If you think those attitudes stop with Twitter you are being naïve.

[mykc14]

Because you honestly think someone is going to go on national TV and say they are criticizing Cam because of his race. Do you just think I'm dumb or something? Because I'd honestly rather you just say that rather than insult my intelligence with that kind of comment.

Cam probably wouldn't be complained about if he acted like Russell Wilson. But that is the WHOLE point. White QBs can get away with acting the way Cam does (which is really nothing more than playing with joy and exuberance they way Brett Favre was LOVED for doing, playing the game like a kid) and they do not inspire any kind of national discussion about sportsmanship. But the second a good black QB does then there has to be a debate about it. Go down the line of black QBs if they were any good and did not play the keep your head down game a la Russell Wilson, Warren Moon, Steve McNair... they get picked apart. Meanwhile no one cares about Phillip Rivers world class trash talk, he's colorful. No one picks apart Brady for his petulant and abusive behavior towards officials, he's a fiery competitor. No one calls Aaron Rodgers sportsmanship into question based on his discount double check. They build an ad campaign around it. And it doesn't matter if you claim it bothers you personally because there is no national debate about any of it.

Obviously I don't think you are dumb, come on. I do think that people would bring it up if it was something they thought. Think about all of the 'not black enough' stuff that came out about RW. He didn't bring it up, but somehow it was in the national media. In fact, when I first heard the debate on sports radio I thought why are we bringing his race into this discussion, why can't we just not like him for all of the other stuff I mentioned in my previous post. Then I saw Cam's quote and realized why race was being talked about. Get out of here with the 'keep your head down game' stuff. That is not what RW or any of the other black QB's playing right now are doing. IMO that is insulting to them. They are not 'towing the company line so as not to draw too much attention stuff.' The funny thing about this whole debate is that I do think racism is out there and it is way more prevalent than most people think. There are still undertones of it in all aspects of society, some obvious like Sis pointed out and others not so obvious but they are still there. I am just not buying the fact that Cam is getting criticized because he is Black. If Johnny Manziel were out there doing the $$$ sign and taking 5-10 seconds to do a 'look at me' first down dance I really think he would be 'polarizing' as well.

Again, as far as an add campaign goes I really would not be surprised at all to see one created around any one of Cam's celebrations so I don't see how the supports your argument about race being an issue here. The reality is there hasn't been a black or white QB like Cam ever. My (and most people I have discussed him with) issues with him have to do with his celebrations, especially after first downs, as 'look at me' type of things and that is something that as a parent and coach I don't like. Again, I am not saying that there aren't people who don't like him because he is black, I am sure there are people who feel that way, but those people wouldn't like him or any other black QB. To me that is not polarizing, that is simply hate and racism. IMO 'most' American's don't fall into that category. Therefore, Cam is polarizing to 'most' Americans because of his college off-field issues, immature behavior in his early NFL days, and entitled attitude (something shared with other QB's like Rivers, Brady and Rodgers), constant 'look at me' celebrations, and now his off-the field comments.

[RiverDog]

Russ winning did draw a mention as being the 2nd so you're misremembering that. His MVP thing though I don't even think can be called a snub. We couldn't even decide here who the MVP should be. Opinions ranged from they got it right to, Kam to Avril to Wilson.

In SB 48, I do recall the TV network saying at some point that Russell was the 2nd African American QB to win a SB. But I do not remember anyone at a press conference asking Russell for a comment or mentioning it. I do not recall a single word about a black QB in SB 49. IMO RW did not get 'snubbed' for the MVP in SB 48. It almost had to go to a player on the defense as what our D did was nearly unprecedented in SB history...completely shutting down one of the best offenses in the history of the league.

Cam's TD celebrations don't bother me per se. Individual celebrations, including Rodgers belt thing, bother me in general as I feel it takes away from the team concept, but nothing particular to Cam. Same goes for his first down showboating. My dismay isn't limited to Cam.

What bothers me about Cam was (1) his defacing of opposing fans personal property, ie their banners/flags, (2) his unprovoked and unprompted insinuation that race was a major factor for people being upset at his antics, and (3) his subsequent request that race not be mentioned by the press when as mykc said, he was the one that first brought up the subject. If he didn't want it to be an issue, then he should have never opened his cake hole in the first place.

Race would have been a non issue had Cam not decided to make it one. By my count, Cam will be the 5th AA QB to start in a SB (Williams, McNair, McNabb, and Wilson) and if he wins, the 3rd to have done so (Williams and Wilson). Cam 's race would have been nothing more than the answer to a trivia question. But now, he's succeeded at putting it back in the headlines, thus perpetuating the problem he supposedly wants to solve. I think it is possible that Cam does not want to see the race issue go away, that it helps him rationalize why it is that a lot of people don't like him. He likes playing the role of the victim.

[Hawktawk]

In SB 48, I do recall the TV network saying at some point that Russell was the 2nd African American QB to win a SB. But I do not remember anyone at a press conference asking Russell for a comment or mentioning it. I do not recall a single word about a black QB in SB 49. IMO RW did not get 'snubbed' for the MVP in SB 48. It almost had to go to a player on the defense as what our D did was nearly unprecedented in SB history...completely shutting down one of the best offenses in the history of the league.

In SB Xlll The Giants defense dominated an unbeaten Pats squad with at that time the highest scoring defense in league history while Eli Manning put up a fairly paltry effort. Without the Tyree helmet catch it was game over and still the defense had to hold on for dear life. That was the same model they used after the 2011 season but Eli won both of those MVP awards. By comparison the Wilson led Seahawks did not punt until late in the 3rd quarter, in spite of very inconsistent line play and a virtual no show for Marshawn. Anyone who thinks Wilsons flawless management of the offense and limiting Manning's opportunities wasn't a huge factor in the game on both sides of the ball is delusional. Probably one of the best statistical QB performances in SB history that didn't receive the award.
He got screwed.

[RiverDog]

In SB 48, I do recall the TV network saying at some point that Russell was the 2nd African American QB to win a SB. But I do not remember anyone at a press conference asking Russell for a comment or mentioning it. I do not recall a single word about a black QB in SB 49. IMO RW did not get 'snubbed' for the MVP in SB 48. It almost had to go to a player on the defense as what our D did was nearly unprecedented in SB history...completely shutting down one of the best offenses in the history of the league.

In SB Xlll The Giants defense dominated an unbeaten Pats squad with at that time the highest scoring defense in league history while Eli Manning put up a fairly paltry effort. Without the Tyree helmet catch it was game over and still the defense had to hold on for dear life. That was the same model they used after the 2011 season but Eli won both of those MVP awards. By comparison the Wilson led Seahawks did not punt until late in the 3rd quarter, in spite of very inconsistent line play and a virtual no show for Marshawn. Anyone who thinks Wilsons flawless management of the offense and limiting Manning's opportunities wasn't a huge factor in the game on both sides of the ball is delusional. Probably one of the best statistical QB performances in SB history that didn't receive the award.
He got screwed.

He didn't get "screwed". He had a very strong case for MVP but didn't get selected. Getting screwed would have been if someone with far less of a case got selected, and given the performance of the defense, it made sense... to me, anyway....that they'd go that direction.

It's debates like this that constitutes one of the reasons why I don't really care about individual awards. The only real award is that means anything to me was that big piece of hardware that Russell was holding over his head.

[obiken]

Right on River. You could make a case but the defense was in Manning's nut sack all day long it was a logical choice.

[kalibane]

I like you River I really do but a more accurate way of putting this statement:

Race would have been a non issue had Cam not decided to make it one.

Would be, "If Cam hadn't said anything about Race, we wouldn't have to hear anything about Race".

And it's important that you don't internalize this as if I'm attacking your personal sentiments about race, but you need to be open to the possibility that you are wrong. Specifically, because you have no ability to understand what it's like to walk through this world as a black person. Sometimes I regret having these discussions because it feels futile and I end up frustrated, but then there are times when I feel like it's important to put my point of view out there in the interest of the truth.

Now you met me, so you know what I look like, which can and has been construed as racially ambiguous. Throughout my life I have been thought and different times by different people to be white/italian, black, latino, Hawaiian, middle eastern pretty much everything except East Asian or Nordic. Because of that I have a perspective that very few people have.

I have been around white people who you think are decent people who have never expressed racist views and even go so far as act buddy buddy with minorities in mixed company say the ugliest racist things imaginable because they mistook me for someone from European ancestry and assumed I would be okay with that racism. Point being, there are a lot of racist people out there who judge people based on race silently simply because it's not socially acceptable to express it outwardly. And the idea that Cam Newton is receiving all this criticism (criticism that Aaron Rodgers isn't) and race has nothing to do it is just not true.

I get it, there are many factors that go into who does and doesn't like Cam Newton. Some of it is the way we love Sherman but a lot of us wouldn't if he played for the 49ers because he's an antagonist. Some people really are so stodgy that they think that no one playing professional sports should ever express outward joy for success on pure principal (but these are few and far between) but there are also people who are either more upset or only upset because Cam is Black. That is just a fact. There are still a lot of racist people out there and black people still receive the lion's share of that racism.

http://dailysnark.com/dont-think-race-p ... am-newton/

You don't see these racist comments on the timelines of people who hate Tom Brady even though a lot of people hate Tom Brady. This is just a sampling. For every one of these racist tweets there are multiple people who don't go explicit but are racially motivated in their criticism.

So No River, race is an issue. It has never stopped being an issue. You don't want to hear about race at the Super Bowl and that's your prerogative, but Cam is simply acknowledging reality when he made those comments. He's not the one making it an issue. The people making it an issue are the ones who are being racist. Ignoring racism doesn't make it go away.

[mykc14]

Would be, "If Cam hadn't said anything about Race, we wouldn't have to hear anything about Race".

And it's important that you don't internalize this as if I'm attacking your personal sentiments about race, but you need to be open to the possibility that you are wrong. Specifically, because you have no ability to understand what it's like to walk through this world as a black person. Sometimes I regret having these discussions because it feels futile and I end up frustrated, but then there are times when I feel like it's important to put my point of view out there in the interest of the truth.

Now you met me, so you know what I look like, which can and has been construed as racially ambiguous. Throughout my life I have been thought and different times by different people to be white/italian, black, latino, Hawaiian, middle eastern pretty much everything except East Asian or Nordic. Because of that I have a perspective that very few people have.

I have been around white people who you think are decent people who have never expressed racist views and even go so far as act buddy buddy with minorities in mixed company say the ugliest racist things imaginable because they mistook me for someone from European ancestry and assumed I would be okay with that racism. Point being, there are a lot of racist people out there who judge people based on race silently simply because it's not socially acceptable to express it outwardly. And the idea that Cam Newton is receiving all this criticism (criticism that Aaron Rodgers isn't) and race has nothing to do it is just not true.

I get it, there are many factors that go into who does and doesn't like Cam Newton. Some of it is the way we love Sherman but a lot of us wouldn't if he played for the 49ers because he's an antagonist. Some people really are so stodgy that they think that no one playing professional sports should ever express outward joy for success on pure principal (but these are few and far between) but there are also people who are either more upset or only upset because Cam is Black. That is just a fact. There are still a lot of racist people out there and black people still receive the lion's share of that racism.

http://dailysnark.com/dont-think-race-p ... am-newton/

You don't see these racist comments on the timelines of people who hate Tom Brady even though a lot of people hate Tom Brady. This is just a sampling. For every one of these racist tweets there are multiple people who don't go explicit but are racially motivated in their criticism.

So No River, race is an issue. It has never stopped being an issue. You don't want to hear about race at the Super Bowl and that's your prerogative, but Cam is simply acknowledging reality when he made those comments. He's not the one making it an issue. The people making it an issue are the ones who are being racist. Ignoring racism doesn't make it go away.

Bane, I agree with much of what you are saying. I don't doubt there is racism in our society today. I also don't doubt that there are people who don't like Cam because he is black. Personally (and this is based on nothing more than conversations I have had with close friends of many different ethnicities) I don't think Cam is polarizing because of his race. I think that Rodgers and Cam are similar in many ways. Both, IMO seem like they are entitled. Both seem to be pouty when things don't go their way. Both celebrate after TD's (personally I don't really like either celebration because they both seem a little too 'look at me', but whatever they don't bother me enough to care too much). A major difference in their celebrations is the fact that Cam's celebrations seem to always take place on camera. Part of this is the fact that he scores more TD's (rushing) than Rodgers so the camera always goes to him after he scores. When he scores he does the Superman and everybody sees it. The other part is Cam's first down celebrations. IMO they are the ultimate 'look at me' opportunity. I didn't even realize Rodgers was was doing the 'discount double check' until he brought his championship belt out after the SB and they showed some shots of him doing it throughout the year. I instantly didn't like it, but it also wasn't thrust in my face the whole game like Cam's celebrations.

Personally I don't mind talking about race. As a Social Studies teacher I talk about it all the time. I talk about how it still has undertones in many aspects of society. I think it's important to be talked about in society. I just don't think it is what makes Cam polarizing and therefore has the opposite effect, turning off people who might be open to discussing racial issues.

[RiverDog]

I like you River I really do but a more accurate way of putting this statement:

" Race would have been a non issue had Cam not decided to make it one."

Would be, "If Cam hadn't said anything about Race, we wouldn't have to hear anything about Race".

And it's important that you don't internalize this as if I'm attacking your personal sentiments about race, but you need to be open to the possibility that you are wrong. Specifically, because you have no ability to understand what it's like to walk through this world as a black person. Sometimes I regret having these discussions because it feels futile and I end up frustrated, but then there are times when I feel like it's important to put my point of view out there in the interest of the truth.

Now you met me, so you know what I look like, which can and has been construed as racially ambiguous. Throughout my life I have been thought and different times by different people to be white/italian, black, latino, Hawaiian, middle eastern pretty much everything except East Asian or Nordic. Because of that I have a perspective that very few people have.

I have been around white people who you think are decent people who have never expressed racist views and even go so far as act buddy buddy with minorities in mixed company say the ugliest racist things imaginable because they mistook me for someone from European ancestry and assumed I would be okay with that racism. Point being, there are a lot of racist people out there who judge people based on race silently simply because it's not socially acceptable to express it outwardly. And the idea that Cam Newton is receiving all this criticism (criticism that Aaron Rodgers isn't) and race has nothing to do it is just not true.

I get it, there are many factors that go into who does and doesn't like Cam Newton. Some of it is the way we love Sherman but a lot of us wouldn't if he played for the 49ers because he's an antagonist. Some people really are so stodgy that they think that no one playing professional sports should ever express outward joy for success on pure principal (but these are few and far between) but there are also people who are either more upset or only upset because Cam is Black. That is just a fact. There are still a lot of racist people out there and black people still receive the lion's share of that racism.

http://dailysnark.com/dont-think-race-p ... am-newton/

You don't see these racist comments on the timelines of people who hate Tom Brady even though a lot of people hate Tom Brady. This is just a sampling. For every one of these racist tweets there are multiple people who don't go explicit but are racially motivated in their criticism.

So No River, race is an issue. It has never stopped being an issue. You don't want to hear about race at the Super Bowl and that's your prerogative, but Cam is simply acknowledging reality when he made those comments. He's not the one making it an issue. The people making it an issue are the ones who are being racist. Ignoring racism doesn't make it go away.

OK, fair enough. But I am not assuming myself to be either right or wrong, and said so in my comments and tried to explain my statement as being a possibility, not a fact. No one knows what motivated Cam to bring up the subject of race. I mentioned this possibility as it would constitute a very rational explanation as to why Cam would make two such hypocritical statements, particularly when they were unprovoked.

I appreciate your comments and the way you phrased them. I realize that race is a sensitive issue and would hate to lose anyone on this board as a friend, let alone someone like yourself whom I've always liked and with whom we've mutually enjoyed each other's company in person. Race is still a sensitive issue, and I fully admit that I have not had to face it, or at least had to face it on anything close to the same scale as you and others have had to. One feeling I've had to overcome in my early adulthood, having grown up during the civil rights movement, is this self guilt I've had of being a white man who's ancestors were guilty of a lot of atrocities perpetuated against people of color. Your inner voice tells you that you have to vote for certain candidates or take up certain issues simply to prove to yourself and to others that you're not a racist.

The point I was trying to make is that one way to combat racism is to let it die on the vine. I'm not saying ignore it. If there's a blatant challenge or issue, then yes, we need to have a discussion and confront it, both sides talk it out and come away with an understanding. A good example of a legitimate issue would be the cop shootings. There are misconceptions on both sides of this issue and the only way to come to an understanding is to hash it out.

I've studied a lot of psychology. A long time ago, but the lessons were well learned. I feel that there is a distinct possibility that Cam's playing the race card was due to an ego defense mechanism. It is easier for one to believe that people don't like him is for something that is beyond his control, ie his race, rather than something that is under his control, ie his acting like an A-hole. I am not claiming my theory to be truth, but you have to admit that it is a very reasonable explanation for his hypocritical statements. It's also possible that Cam himself realized he had made a mistake in making his initial comment about people being 'threatened' by him. That, too, would explain his subsequent hypocritical statement. If that was true and he came out and admitted it, my respect for him would take a 180 degree about face as he would be admitting that he wasn't Superman, he is human like the rest of us.

This is a good discussion and I appreciate how everyone has handled it.

[obiken]

No please lets end this thread on race, pretty please!

[RiverDog]

No please lets end this thread on race, pretty please!

I disagree, obi. It's a great discussion and a lot of good points are being brought out. I like these types of discussions as it helps me grow as an individual... yes, even a gray haired 61 year old baby boomer like me can learn something from these snot nosed Gen X types!

Don't be afraid to join in. We won't bite!

[c_hawkbob]

Is your b**** coming back?

If that was a Cam quote everyone would be freaking out.

[Hawktawk]

This is long but so be it.
I forget who said this but it always stuck with me. "America is a bad place except when compared to everywhere else".

The constant drumbeat of intolerance in our society, whether it be racial, sexual, political whatever is so damn overplayed as to be ludicrous in 2016 America. I'm sick of people complaining about this nation. Its the best nation on earth. I'm sick of the finger pointing, the rabble rousing, the bickering and squabbling. And with an election approaching it will be drummed up to a roar, setting us back as a nation to scare up a few votes. We have become a nation of whiners, blame shifters, excuse makers. Everyone gets a trophy. Nobody fails, nobody gets insulted or we are running to teacher. If this thought process were in place over the last few centuries there would be no America. Europe would be speaking Russian, or probably German and would be a totalitarian fascist hellhole.

I was taught when the going gets tough the tough get going. Work hard and keep your mouth shut. I was abused as a child and bullied in school my first 8 grades. As a freckle faced buck toothed ginger with a pig shave who was constantly moving from town to town it was quite awful. Getting jumped and beat up behind the school, tripped, kicked. I was teased about being gay. Its no more fun for a hetero person than a gay one in that situation I assure you. But somehow in spite of it all I rose up to be a husband, father and now grandfather and a very capable manager in my field without as much as a college education. Even though I was diagnosed bipolar in 2011 I had made it through 51 years of life without making excuses or giving up. Mental illness is another supposed *stigma* but I embraced my diagnosis. It explained a lot. But there are explanations and then there are excuses. This nations extremists on both ends of the social and political spectrum do not know the difference anymore. And it is ruining America, taking us backwards. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

If you haven't had a heartbreak you cant sing the blues. From adversity comes strength. These concepts are lost in post modern America.

[RiverDog]

This is long but so be it.
I forget who said this but it always stuck with me. "America is a bad place except when compared to everywhere else".

You could be thinking about Winston Churchill, who once said about democracy as being the world's worst form of government, except for everything else.

Interesting comments, Hawktawk.

[Zorn76]

In one of the more wacky seasons we've seen in the NFL - regular season and playoffs - I think the Broncos have a much better shot at winning in 2 weeks than others.

Denver's D did a great job of shutting down a Pat's offense that, while not as good as they've been in the past, was still pretty damn solid. And, physically, they positively beat the S*** out of New England. I haven't seen Brady get rag dolled like that since the G-men beat him up in SB 42.

And it was AWESOME to witness:)

Carolina...well, what can you say - it certainly feels like their year. Nobody would be shocked to see them hoisting their first Lombardi in February. What's interesting to me is how different this Broncos team is heading in, however. It's the defense that's gonna have to first keep them in this thing, while having just enough offense to pull it off.

It's also a very different Manning coming into his 4th SB. He's a game managing QB at this point, but still a very smart one. Two weeks of rest should be enough for his arm to be decent, and having experienced the peaks and valleys of Super Bowl's past could be a useful intangible here. I realize that some are already staring to smell a beat down, just like the one we put on him a couple of years ago.

But this time feels different, for me anyway. The Panthers are good, obviously. They have Huge momentum going in, and they've had that team mojo going all year. But the SB is a different animal altogether. We've seen some pretty good teams play inexplicably weird and or bad under the bright lights. The Broncos did just that against us recently. They currently have 16 players on their roster who've played in the big game, vs 4 for Carolina. Will that make any difference? Maybe.

I just sense a much closer game. The opening line was Panthers -3.5, and it's already up to 4, and could climb even more by kickoff. Regardless, it's an easy choice to pull for Denver here.

Not a bad take prior to the SB, if I do say so myself:)

Just glad the Broncos beat 'em, and beat 'em good.

[c_hawkbob]

http://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/955167

I'm sorry but this play flipped the switch for me on Cam. I'd been trying real hard to look past all the dabbing and superman stuff as "youthful exuberance" or something, but cowardice? Uh uh.

And his post game presser was an embarrassment. He had just been named the NFL MVP, the "face of the NFL", and he's gonna get all pouty and skip out of his presser?

He needs to go watch Russel's post game pressers from after both his win and his loss in the Super Bowl and realize what it is to show some class and grace.

[RiverDog]

http://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/955167

I'm sorry but this play flipped the switch for me on Cam. I'd been trying real hard to look past all the dabbing and superman stuff as "youthful exuberance" or something, but cowardice? Uh uh.

And his post game presser was an embarrassment. He had just been named the NFL MVP, the "face of the NFL", and he's gonna get all pouty and skip out of his presser?

He needs to go watch Russel's post game pressers from after both his win and his loss in the Super Bowl and realize what it is to show some class and grace.

press
Thanks for bringing that up, CBob. I was going to mention that play myself, but to be honest, I was a bit reluctant due to the tone of some of the disagreements we've had in this thread. I wasn't aware of the skipping his presser as I don't watch that stuff unless it's our guys, but you're right, this guy has no sense of responsibility. It would be different if he were a personality like Beast that shys away from all public appearances anyway, but this is the same guy that came out unprovoked and accused a lot of fans of being racists because they don't like his antics. I wonder what his reaction will be this time? Who's he going to blame and what excuse will he come up with to defend his obvious lack of will to recover that ball or to attend the presser?

There was another play earlier when Cam thought he should have received a roughing the passer call that wasn't even that close and was whining because he didn't get the call. I stand by the remarks I said earlier in this thread about him.

[Hawktawk]

You're all racist!!! Hes just acting like a black QB you've never seen before!!!!!!!

Ooooh but we have Cam. We've seen this Cam most of your career. Everyone says he will "grow up" but he's six years in the league now. He is who he is.
If he is kept clean for his big Byron Leftwich loop throw and his impromptu or planned runs he is devastating.
Get him off his spot and hit him a bunch and hes worse than average.
Then he blinks at a fumble, moves away actually, makes a business decision in the biggest game of his life. What a disgrace.
And this puss is our MVP? They really should award everything after the Super Bowl. Leadership counts, probably the most but it doesn't show up on a stat sheet.

It does at the podium though.

What if the Panthers had Russ? He saved the Dallas game by getting Greg Hardy down single handedly after a freak interception.
Ive seen him dive into lots of piles and come out with the ball, out wrestle guys who outweigh him by 75 pounds.
I also saw him a year ago speak with grace and humility moments after the worst possible game ever, a a game in which he played twice as well as Cam Newton yesterday.
If its Newton rather than Wilson who is the face of the league we are on the wrong path.

[burrrton]

I will never understand why just because people personally don't have a problem with race they find it objectionable when it's pointed out that there are still a lot of people who do.

Because to a large degree, the ones who do are most often the ones pointing it out.

Yes there are racists against, and *of*, every race, creed, and color. Someone pointing that out is about as profound, insightful, meaningful, and relevant as calling the ocean blue.

The ocean being blue isn't why a douchebag gets called a douchebag, and neither is his/her skin being darker than others'. Get the frick over it.

you have no ability to understand what it's like to walk through this world as a black person. Sometimes I regret having these discussions because it feels futile and I end up frustrated

You end up frustrated because your (apparent) side of the argument is trying to conjure something out of (almost always) nothing.

There *is* real racism in this world- quit trying to project it onto every over-dressed salad a [insert minority member of relevant portion of the planet being discussed] receives and it might eventually fade further into the background.

But every time you pick the freaking scab of such a relatively dead issue, the more reasonable people go "Oh my GOD will you just shut the fck UP about it already?!?" and the more likely *actual* cases of racism will be dismissed.

So No River, race is an issue. It has never stopped being an issue.

Then physician heal thyself. Jeezus.

[RiverDog]

But every time you pick the freaking scab of such a relatively dead issue, the more reasonable people go "Oh my GOD will you just shut the fck UP about it already?!?" and the more likely *actual* cases of racism will be dismissed.

Yep. Cry racism in the most benign situations, like why people don't like Cam, cheapens the charge and increases the chances that a legitimate charge will be lost in all the noise of this inconsequential nonsense. The little boy that cried wolf.