Agent 86 wrote:Race is being mentioned, this seems to be the hot topic. Saying if this were Brady/Rodgers who acted this way or had this kind of past, people wouldn't even be discussing it.
Hey, I am just letting you know what I am hearing, this is not my opinion. But we get this convo started a couple days before it has become one of the most talked about topics on sports radio.
Agent 86 wrote:Race is being mentioned, this seems to be the hot topic. Saying if this were Brady/Rodgers who acted this way or had this kind of past, people wouldn't even be discussing it.
RiverDog wrote:And I say horse pucky to that nonsense. I get tired of people playing the race card with no evidence whatsoever other than their own speculation.
c_hawkbob wrote:I agree Dog. Gastineau was much more reviled than Cam for his sack dances and it had nothing to do with his race.
Hawk Sista wrote:I Appreciate the response. I was worried I'd be ridden out on a rail w/ that post. I believe with all that's in me that people don't think there is a racial component. However big, small or non-existent it is depends on the person forming the opinion. But it is there. Thanks for being open minded.
Hawk Sista wrote:I am as certain as I am that the sun will rise tomorrow that this will be a wildly unpopular post. I actually understand when someone of color thinks that certain reactions/treatment is race related, even if it happens not be the case in that situation. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't.... and sometimes it is both. While I believe that there are indeed times when people claim race is at the heart of something just to throw gasoline on a hotly burning fire, I also think that racism is pervasive (though sometimes very subtle) and bigotry is felt by a lot of us on a fairly regular basis.... a point that most white males will miss, I am sure.
As a gay woman, I can tell you that I have experienced first hand (this week even) bigotry, different treatment, jokes made about me in the work place etc... I know quite factually that I have been treated/perceived differently than my stale/male/pale colleagues when my actions are similar. Certain actions have been assigned to my gender or orientation rather than to me as a leader and decision maker. And looks that we get when out with a group of female friends can be hurtful. So even when someone could be looking at me thinking I love her hair, or that's a great suit...it feels to me like there is judgment there because I have dealt with it for so long.
More to the point - one of my very bests friends is a tall black male. I have personally witnessed the looks he gets, the different treatment, people assuming we are a couple and letting us know it isn't cool, women moving their purse to the opposite shoulder, the manager in ritzy areas asking me if I am ok...EVERY time we are together, we laugh at some such thing. When this is your experience day in and day out, one begins to feel differently about the world in which they live. I'm guessing most of you have not had to sit your teenage son down and say "look, even if you did not do anything - say yes sir and keep your hands visible at all times." If you think these are exaggerations, ask your black friends about their experiences and see which of them says NONE of the above has happened to them.
For me, the irritation with Cam is less severe than it is for others but for me it boils down to the position he plays. Right or wrong, QBs have traditionally played a different public role; Cam is stretching people's comfort level for the actions of a QB. I think he is cocky and irritating, but I think half the league (and people on our own team) suffer the same traits... irrespective of color. And while your personal disdain for him may be all action related, don't be fooled into thinking that the motivation for other's disdain is not at all related to race. It may not be the overriding reason, but it's all mixed in there. Schein likely has stories of his own... Ask your Jewish friends about that too.
EmeraldBullet wrote:If an opposing teams player stole my property and destroyed it I would pursue legal action. Just saying...
Agent 86 wrote:I am actually shocked that "race" was even mentioned, let alone being the main reason these sports talk hosts are saying is the issue. Schein spent at least his first hour on this topic taking calls. He can be quite over the top if you listen to him, so I think he influences alot of listeners opinions.
I certainly never even thought "race" played a role in anyone's opinion on here, seems to me that is the topic being discussed because it has the most effect and promotes calls and ratings. Shame on them for using it.
But they are just playing off what Cam himself said in his interview yesterday.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000628988/article/cam-newton-no-one-changed-me-im-true-to-my-roots
BOBThe only problem I had at all with your post was your reference to "most white males" as the root of the problem. It is no more fair for you to paint us with the same brush than it is to so paint any other group. I think more of "us" may have moved past it than you realize and that we are seriously longing for that word "US" to include everyone in our lives rather than just those that are the same race/sex/creed/age etc.
Hawk Sista wrote: BOB
I agree. I have seen an evolution in the past several years and you make excellent points. I should not have generalized like that. More fair would be to say that there are those individuals who will never get why someone would have the perception that a situation is race (or gender or other) related because of the sum total of all their experiences. Most folks in here have reasonable responses - though clearly not all. I stand edited.
Hawk Sista wrote:I Appreciate the response. I was worried I'd be ridden out on a rail w/ that post. I believe with all that's in me that people don't think there is a racial component. However big, small or non-existent it is depends on the person forming the opinion. But it is there. Thanks for being open minded.
Hawk Sista wrote:It was OT and became the T.
I understand your world view, HT. I'm asking you to read the words I wrote and imagine that the management asks you if you need help finding something every time you are in a store that isn't in an all black neighborhood. Looks, moving a purse, locking the door when they look at you. You might just have a chip on your shoulder that was earned. Be careful when you lump people in a group. Thugs? Really - all of them?
Our society has made some strides forward and others straight back. Having a diverse group of friends helps to see people as people and not as black or gay or stale/male/pale bigots. We are human beings, everyone of us. And if you want a lil understanding for being raised a redneck, then you are going to have to seek to understand others lot too.
Have a good day. It's a bummer there is no Seahawk football this week.
savvyman wrote:I think there are two primary reasons why many people dislike Cam.
1. There are a number of people who dislike Cam for acting like a arrogant jerk (no real racism) with his celebrations.
2. And there are a number of people who dislike Cam because he is a Black Man who is not acting "Proper Enough" in a deferential manner and this is a threat to many white men who still expect black men to not act so strong and independently. Fortunately for the world, most of these people will be dieing over the next 30 years.
Hawk Sista wrote:I wish you were right. But #2 exists.
And BTW, not that you said it does, but it's not just a bunch of older white males that fall within #2. Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and women of all color all harbor narrow minded individuals. I bristle at the suggestion that it's only individuals from my demographical group that compose racists and sexists. River Dog.
Hawk Sista wrote:Bigotry is not unique to the stale, male and pale, River. I have wrong-headed and bigoted positions too and I am certainly not male (though I do turn 50 this year - Zoiks! ).... There is a pretty significant difference, however, between being a member of the dominant and most powerful demographic in the USofA and being a minority. I would never say that your demographic group is the only one to be bigoted... I would even go so far as to say there isn't a soul alive who truly does not have some racist, sexist, judgmental thoughts. That said, if you really don't get the difference, it's likely not going to happen here. I'm not sure if we agree or disagree, but let's just agree to leave this one here for now.
Hawk Sista wrote:I have heard what you have said. You have said nothing new these last few posts. Just because you think it is ridiculous does not make it so.... it makes it your opinion and in my opinion, we probably should quit this discussion or move it into the OT category as you suggested earlier.
In my opinion, there is no such thing as a single objective reality. Every man, woman and child (of every color and religion) comes to know through his/her own unique set of circumstances and experiences. You call #2 "a totally PC reason for a PC apologist" - which I assume you are calling me... so be it. In general, I disagree with your premise and your very easily lumping me into a sea full of PC apologists... I know there is nothing I could possibly do or say to get you to move off of your position and you must also know there is nothing you can do or say to change my set of experiences that make up my version of reality....which is that I see overt, covert, subtle and less subtle examples of what I am trying to say quite often. We will just agree to disagree.
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