Cam is EXACTLY who we thought he was.

[burrrton]

(whether it is uncomfy to some of you or not).

The people who project racism onto everything they see are the ones less comfortable with those not like them, not the ones who ask what the hell you're talking about.

[RiverDog]

NO!!! READ MY COMMENTS IN THEIR ORIGINAL CONTEXT. It was a different thread. I was speaking in a more generic sense. I do think some people dislike Cam for a variety of reasons. Race is one. That does not mean that everyone who dislikes him dislikes him based on race. It's a case by case deal. To ignore, however, that some hate him for his race is ignorant. (Google all the Twitter comments calling him. F'n N#^%#%!) they are there. You can't come into a conversation 3/4 of the way through and start barreling through with a know it all stance. Read what I said, then get back to me.

Yea, we ought to merge the two threads. There's a lot of misunderstanding on this subject.

Over in the other thread, burrton said something similar to what I had said earlier when I said that one way to combat racism was to let it die on the vine. Quit talking about it and it will gradually fade away, become a non starter. Keep throwing it in our face and you guarantee it's perpetuation.

Yes, there are people that don't like Cam Newton because of his race. But that's nothing new or unique. There are people out there that don't like Russell Wilson and President Obama because of their race. It's stating the obvious and adds nothing to the discussion. We all already know that there are scads of racists out there. None of us live in a vacuum.

IMO Cam's comments on the subject were unprovoked and unjustified. He had no other reasonable explanation as to why people don't like him so he played the race card in his own defense because it was easier to do than it would have been for him to look himself in the mirror and be introspective. Cam's race is a crutch he uses to support his over inflated and very fragile ego, and his post game press conference is a symptom of that flawed ego.

[burrrton]

ea, we ought to merge the two threads. There's a lot of misunderstanding on this subject.

If I missed a nuance of the argument, I apologize, Sis.

[Hawk Sista]

I read nothing from ESPN and have come to know what I know, which is clearly different than what you know. Spare me the **sigh** BS. We just disagree. Big. Time.

RD - disagree with you too. So sorry you experience white guilt (per your own admission.... But intelligent dialogue (preferably w/o eye rolling and name calling... Ooops - too late) could get us somewhere.

I'm tired, have had a wreck and am a classic insomniac. Chopping this up isn't gonna fix a damned thing, but I know from 1st, 2nd and third hand exerience of the weight of perceptions from both sides. It's a shame we can't discuss it like adults.

[burrrton]

It's a shame we can't discuss it like adults.

I'll spare you the *sigh* BS if you spare me the "I'M THE ADULT BECAUSE I SEE RACISM IN STALE BREAD" BS.

Welcome to 2016- 99.99% of people's failures are their own.

(And Sis, saying "OMG look at what those mean boys said about him in that thread!" is more or less pointing to espn.com- you can insert a different URL if you need to- the point's the same)

[Hawk Sista]

Apology accepted and I offer mine. We'd likely get somewhere in a bar w/ some 805's (or is that local fare?? It's beer) and jalapeño poppers. Maybe some day, eh? Peace out and good night.

[Hawk Sista]

I guess we apologized too soon. Bummer

[RiverDog]

I read nothing from ESPN and have come to know what I know, which is clearly different than what you know. Spare me the **sigh** BS. We just disagree. Big. Time.

RD - disagree with you too. So sorry you experience white guilt (per your own admission.... But intelligent dialogue (preferably w/o eye rolling and name calling... Ooops - too late) could get us somewhere.

I'm tired, have had a wreck and am a classic insomniac. Chopping this up isn't gonna fix a damned thing, but I know from 1st, 2nd and third hand exerience of the weight of perceptions from both sides. It's a shame we can't discuss it like adults.

Just a correction about my 'white guilt.' It's something I had a long time ago. As far as I know, I do not suffer from such guilt nowadays.

And I thought we were discussing this like adults. At least I was trying to.

[Hawk Sista]

The point is that good people (O frickin K, maybe Cam ain't one of them) get called the N word, faggot, dyke or insert your own derogatory term here) long enough and one can't help that those derogatory terms become part of how you feel others feel about you, especially when you've heard and seen it your whole life.

[HumanCockroach]

Interesting, I've always tended to turn my derogatory slams around, and have found they make the person spouting them look stupid, guess that's just me. I don't put a lot of stock in a word, or even idiots spewing the words. Giving power to an insult is like pouring fuel on a fire. Own the word, and you own the idiot saying them.

Been called a wop all my life ( amongst other less complimentary racial slams) as soon as I stopped reacting in anger, and instead chose to embrace them as a badge of pride, the slurs stopped, or were instead said with respect. They're just WORDS, placing ones "value" in the word some dumb a## decides to call someone seems to show a lack of self esteem ( at least to me) especially some random stranger or strangers.

[monkey]

I'm just going to throw this out there. Some of us have been saying this negative stuff about Cam since before he was drafted, this guy had the guts to include it in his pre draft http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/28/pfw-draft-guide-clobbers-cam-newton/
It's almost prescient how well Nawrocki described him.

[Hawktawk]

Sis we get your points too. There is indeed institutionalized racism against strong black men who are athletes. Witness the "thug" comments directed at Sherm FROM THE MEDIA!!!!! His Compton to Stanford resume shut them up quick though.

The concerns of race are so nuanced in the context of this jack wagons antics as to be off topic for discussion. In other words when you have acted like Cam has his entire adult life you lose the right to pull the race card and it makes you look even more foolish when you fail on the biggest stage and throw your biggest tantrum yet.

[RiverDog]

The point is that good people (O frickin K, maybe Cam ain't one of them) get called the N word, faggot, dyke or insert your own derogatory term here) long enough and one can't help that those derogatory terms become part of how you feel others feel about you, especially when you've heard and seen it your whole life.

Just a point that has little to do with this discussion. I have long felt that if blacks wanted the 'N' word to disappear from our vocabulary that they should stop using it themselves, another example of what I was talking about when I said an effective way to combat racism was to let it 'die on the vine'. That's not going to happen if we keep interjecting it into discussions and keep these derogatory terms alive. I can probably add a half dozen derogatory, racial terms that I'm willing to bet that most people in my daughter's generation haven't even heard because people quit using them.

And Sis, just an FYI, I'm not trying to budge you or anyone else that has a viewpoint opposite of mine off your position or me trying to claim I'm right and you're wrong. This is an exchange of thoughts and ideas, nothing more, nothing less.

[NorthHawk]

I'm just going to throw this out there. Some of us have been saying this negative stuff about Cam since before he was drafted, this guy had the guts to include it in his pre draft http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/28/pfw-draft-guide-clobbers-cam-newton/
It's almost prescient how well Nawrocki described him.

Wow, good link Monkey, and it seems pretty accurate at this point.
I couldn't put my finger on it about Newton and assumed it was immaturity, but he does come across as fake a lot of the time.
Perhaps those subtle undercurrents of distrust is what gives people the impressions they have of him.

For the rest of the thread, racism still lives, and it probably will do forever to some degree but I don't think it's a major part of the dislike for Newton.
I think it's more of how he presents himself.

[mykc14]

Cam just had his follow up interview. More pathetic comments, but the one I simply can't believe is that he admitted that he made a choice not to dive on the ball after the strip sack. I don't see how his teammates can take him seriously after this. Davis played 2 weeks after having surgery on a broken arm. Jared Allen played with a broken foot and Cam decided not to jump on the ball because he didn't want to get injured. Let's set the stage: 4 minutes left in the Super Bowl, your team is down by 6, the ball is on the ground and you have a chance to recover the fumble... Nah, my leg would have twisted in an awkward position. Unbelievable... and then to say that the fumble didn't cost you the game... shameful. I mean somebody should have been in his ear saying, "make something up. Tell them you thought the ball was going to bounce back or you were going to try and pick it up to make a play." Most wouldn't have believed it but how do you look your teammate in the eye after that?


"Newton also defended himself for not diving to try to recover his fumble in the fourth quarter that eventually was recovered by the Broncos. Denver went on to score a touchdown to put the game out of reach.

He said that he would have risked injury by diving as it would have meant he would have had to twist his leg in an awkward direction.

"We didn't lose that game because of that fumble. I can tell you that," he said."

[Hawktawk]

He confirmed what we all saw. Hes a poor sport, one of the worst I can remember at this level. And he is a puss who admitted it on live TV moments ago. How can his teammates ever truly trust him again?
The linkage is so appropriate, Wilson nearly getting decapitated by Mathews in last years NFC title game trying to make a defensive play. He pops up and shakes it off, probably was seeing stars for 10 minutes. Later he is overheard excitedly telling his teammates "hey, were only down 16 points!!!!!!!" midway through the 3rd quarter 3 picks into the game.
Leaders never give up,they don't quit on or off the field.

I don't care about 35 passing TDs and 10 rushing, your MVP and your dabba d0o dance. They have a QB problem in Carolina and I think this hangover might be a big one.

[obiken]

The point is that good people (O frickin K, maybe Cam ain't one of them) get called the N word, faggot, dyke or insert your own derogatory term here) long enough and one can't help that those derogatory terms become part of how you feel others feel about you, especially when you've heard and seen it your whole life.

You two need to just hug and make up. Your too valuable as Hawk fans and of this site to have this kind of blood feud.

[HumanCockroach]

http://sea.247sports.com/Bolt/Cam-Newto ... s-43592268

[RiverDog]

Cam just had his follow up interview. More pathetic comments, but the one I simply can't believe is that he admitted that he made a choice not to dive on the ball after the strip sack. I don't see how his teammates can take him seriously after this. Davis played 2 weeks after having surgery on a broken arm. Jared Allen played with a broken foot and Cam decided not to jump on the ball because he didn't want to get injured. Let's set the stage: 4 minutes left in the Super Bowl, your team is down by 6, the ball is on the ground and you have a chance to recover the fumble... Nah, my leg would have twisted in an awkward position. Unbelievable... and then to say that the fumble didn't cost you the game... shameful. I mean somebody should have been in his ear saying, "make something up. Tell them you thought the ball was going to bounce back or you were going to try and pick it up to make a play." Most wouldn't have believed it but how do you look your teammate in the eye after that?


"Newton also defended himself for not diving to try to recover his fumble in the fourth quarter that eventually was recovered by the Broncos. Denver went on to score a touchdown to put the game out of reach.

He said that he would have risked injury by diving as it would have meant he would have had to twist his leg in an awkward direction.

"We didn't lose that game because of that fumble. I can tell you that," he said."

Wow, that's incredible! As harsh of a critic as I've been on Newton, I would have never accused him of saying or thinking anything close to that quote unless I heard it with my own ears or saw it with my own eyes.

And I completely disagree with Newton's analysis of the impact of that fumble, for the reasons you stated above. It was a 6 point game, for crying out loud! That play and the subsequent Broncos touchdown was what took he game from a very viable chance of winning... scoring just one touchdown with lots of time remaining and their defense locking down the Broncos like they had for the majority of the game..to a very improbable one, requiring two touchdowns just to tie.

This is ten times worse than Jay Cutler's wimping out in a playoff game. They had the frigging Super Bowl within their reach with just a few minutes to play. What could very well be a once in a lifetime opportunity for him, for his teammates, and for the Panther fans and he doesn't what his legs to get twisted. Simply unbelievable.

[obiken]

Exactly Riv, as you know teams just don't bounce back from these kind of loses. It takes years, took us 8 years to get back with a different team. I hope for his sake he isn't another Marino.

[Hawktawk]

Wow, that's incredible! As harsh of a critic as I've been on Newton, I would have never accused him of saying or thinking anything close to that quote unless I heard it with my own ears or saw it with my own eyes.

And I completely disagree with Newton's analysis of the impact of that fumble, for the reasons you stated above. It was a 6 point game, for crying out loud! That play and the subsequent Broncos touchdown was what took he game from a very viable chance of winning... scoring just one touchdown with lots of time remaining and their defense locking down the Broncos like they had for the majority of the game..to a very improbable one, requiring two touchdowns just to tie.

This is ten times worse than Jay Cutler's wimping out in a playoff game. They had the frigging Super Bowl within their reach with just a few minutes to play. What could very well be a once in a lifetime opportunity for him, for his teammates, and for the Panther fans and he doesn't what his legs to get twisted. Simply unbelievable.

Its a game changer IMO. A big horse like Cam is always going to be a weapon but if there were whispers in Seattle locker room about Russ being too white I cant imagine there wont be some in Carolina's about Newton being a wimp.

[obiken]

What I thought of HT is RW; he runs back recovers the ball and throws for a huge game changing moment. How many teams have given up 10 points in the first quarter and came back to win the SB? Denver, is the only one I can remember.

[monkey]

I wanted to bring up something that I have yet to see anyone bring up. In fact, I've been waiting for quite some time now for anyone (in the media or even locally...anywhere really) to even mention it, yet no one has.
As we all recall, Marshawn Lynch got fined for grabbing his crotch after the big run he had against the Cardinals, because, the NFL felt that since they are trying to promote a "family atmosphere" that what he did was punishable.
So my question is this, why in the WORLD hasn't Cam been told to cease and desist his stupid celebration which includes "dabbing" or else he will be fined?
Dabbing
1. To press a piece of cannabis extract known as Butane Hash Oil against a heated surface of an oil rig pipe and inhale the smoke. These extracts have up to 90% THC levels. It is the newest growing trend for cannabis connoisseurs and Colorado currently has the largest following to date.
2. The act of touching a marijuana concentrate that can be made through various methods to a hot surface known as a nail in order to vaporize and inhale the concentrate.
3. To give a sharp nod to your raised four arm. Dancing with sharp nods repeated. Dab on those fools. To acknowledge, agree upon stunt on.
This style of dancing originates from coughing into the crook of ones arm, after inhaling dabs.

Example of use of the term, "Hey man, I got some dabs. Can I borrow your torch?"
He's dabbing some BHO."
The reason that Cam sticks his head into his bent arm in his stupid celebration, is to mimic coughing after smoking butane hash oil.

Cam Newton is KNOWINGLY, willfully promoting the drug culture, and has started a cultural trend so large that people like Betty White have taken selfies while "dabbing" the way that Cam does it.
How in the world is the NFL OK with this?!?
How can they POSSIBLY say that it's not OK for Lynch to grab his junk, but Cam celebrating using illegal drugs is perfectly fine???

[HumanCockroach]

Because it's the NFL and so long as it's "marketable" they could give a flying F what it's promoting. Hard to market crotch grabs, especially with someone who refuses to speak to the media, but pot? Totally marketable.

Basically, they don't give a hoot about 98% of the PC crap they spew any more than "players safety" so long as it LOOKS like they care, and the money keeps rolling in, they're good.

[obiken]

Because it's the NFL and so long as it's "marketable" they could give a flying F what it's promoting. Hard to market crotch grabs, especially with someone who refuses to speak to the media, but pot? Totally marketable.

Basically, they don't give a hoot about 98% of the PC crap they spew any more than "players safety" so long as it LOOKS like they care, and the money keeps rolling in, they're good.

Exactly Human, and it depends on who you are. Cam is fine, the Hog fun bunch celebration is out.

[Agent 86]

I was actually one of Cam's supporters in the other thread, pretty much said I liked how he has been all year. He seemed to "mature" after becoming a Dad and the accident he had last off season. I guess the lesson I learned is everything is good when you are winning, but the true test is how you act in the face of adversity.

Boy, was I off the mark. All I can think is how thankful I am that RW3 is the Seahawks QB.

Newton, IMO, has made himself look pretty bad the last 3 days, I am surprised someone hasn't taken over damage control.

Even though I lost some coin on the game, I am now thoroughly enjoying the aftermath of Cam Newton's behavior from Sunday morning on. The MVP shoes, the trying to defend not jumping on the ball, the way the Bronco's D owned him all day, the hood on in the presser, walking out on the presser, answering the questions while sulking, saying "show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser" comment.

You guys had him pegged, and I now see the light......

[monkey]

Agent86 I can totally understand getting fooled by Cam, but losing money on that game???
Come on man! Where were you when Seattle taught the world the lesson about defense ALWAYS beats offense, just the same way that good pitching beats good hitting?

Seriously though, I cannot for the life of me understand how ANYONE thought the Panthers had a chance. They played an uber easy schedule all season, they got LUCKY matching up with the Seahawks when they did, coming off that big Minnesota game in the cold, and still recuperating. Arizona was a joke, (just like I've been saying all along, Palmer SUCKS!) but that Broncos defense is LEGIT!
The Panthers hadn't played a team like them, a team that could bring unceasing pressure.
What's even more important though, that team simply doesn't have ANY weapons offensively aside from Olson (who is a legit stud). So how the heck was most of the country thinking that the Panthers would win??
They have NO ONE offensively who the Broncos worried about, other than Cam Newton, and he's shown all along that when the chips are down, when he gets punched in the face, he folds like a cheap tent every time. The media did the exact same thing they did two seasons ago, they got caught up in the offense (like they always do) only this time with FAR less reason. That Broncos offense two seasons ago was the greatest to ever play football EVER according to the numbers. This Panthers offense was nowhere NEAR that good, in fact it was hugely overrated because of Cam Newton.

I cannot tell you how many people told me, (and my brother the Cowboys fan who was right there with me on the Broncos) that I was stupid and had no idea what I was talking about.
OK... just like I guaranteed a Seahawks win two years ago, I guaranteed a Panther win this year, because DEFENSE.
If it weren't for the unbelievable JJ Watt, Von Miller would have been HANDS DOWN this years defensive MVP. He is right now, the closest thing to a Derrick Thomas clone I've ever seen. He plays just like him, and he can take a game over, literally by himself. Then you add in a future hall of fame DE, and a secondary that looks a lot like the Seahawks (not a surprise that Elway built that defense to resemble the Seahawks after we kicked their teeth in) and for the life of me I cannot understand how Carolina was EVER favored. Denver should have been the favorite from the get go, they have BY FAR the better offensive weapons, as well as the better defense, and MUCH MUCH better secondary, plus a QB who isn't a whiny cry baby like Newton, even if he's past his prime,, he is still elite football IQ.

[RiverDog]

Gosh, it's actually getting to the point that I'm feeling sorry for Cam the way we're beating up on him.

Here's a little different POV. I don't exactly agree with all or any of what this reporter has to say, but just in fairness and to give our discussion some balance, I thought it would be appropriate to post it. Here it goes:

http://myfox8.com/2016/02/08/why-youre- ... onference/

[Hawktown]

Gosh, it's actually getting to the point that I'm feeling sorry for Cam the way we're beating up on him.

Here's a little different POV. I don't exactly agree with all or any of what this reporter has to say, but just in fairness and to give our discussion some balance, I thought it would be appropriate to post it. Here it goes:

http://myfox8.com/2016/02/08/why-youre- ... onference/

Well, I personally do not feel sorry for him though I did not think that there was anything really to complain about with his presser. It is Cam's attitude the rest of the time that gets to me. Kinda like the flopping on the ground like a fish or falling to the ground in disgust type things, that was just sad but funny (Jim Harbaugh like), lol.

This attitude of Cams WILL help the Hawks against him in the future. Well, probably for most teams against him.

[Hawktawk]

Gosh, it's actually getting to the point that I'm feeling sorry for Cam the way we're beating up on him.

Here's a little different POV. I don't exactly agree with all or any of what this reporter has to say, but just in fairness and to give our discussion some balance, I thought it would be appropriate to post it. Here it goes:

http://myfox8.com/2016/02/08/why-youre- ... onference/

No sympathy here. Live by the sword die by the sword. Tom Brady has 4 rings and got booed walking into Levis stadium. If Cam cant handle the heat he better get out of the kitchen because HE has made himself FAR more unlikeable than Brady.
Even if he was going to give clipped answers there was no reason to go in there in a black hoodie.
And there is no explanation beyond cowardice, a straight up business decision with the Super bowl on the line to explain not going for the fumble.

Those who continue to make excuses say he will "grow up". He's 6 years into his career. He is who he is.

Props to Agent for manning up BTW....There's really no defending this guy anymore. I made the same error with Manziel.

[RiverDog]

No sympathy here. Live by the sword die by the sword. Tom Brady has 4 rings and got booed walking into Levis stadium. If Cam cant handle the heat he better get out of the kitchen because HE has made himself FAR more unlikeable than Brady.
Even if he was going to give clipped answers there was no reason to go in there in a black hoodie.
And there is no explanation beyond cowardice, a straight up business decision with the Super bowl on the line to explain not going for the fumble.

Those who continue to make excuses say he will "grow up". He's 6 years into his career. He is who he is.

Props to Agent for manning up BTW....There's really no defending this guy anymore. I made the same error with Manziel.

I wasn't really defending him, just putting out another POV.

It will be interesting to see how the locker room reacts to Cam. I know that if a teammate of mine were to back away from a loose ball, especially in a situation like that, that it would affect how I would perceive him. But then again, they could take the attitude that this was the guy that got them there in the first place, and they might want Cam and his warts rather than some random QB. Better to have the Devil you know than the Devil you don't know.

This will be a situation similar to the one we faced last season, except that instead of the coaching staff, the confidence crisis (if it occurs) will be with their quarterback.

[Agent 86]

Agent86 I can totally understand getting fooled by Cam, but losing money on that game???
Come on man! Where were you when Seattle taught the world the lesson about defense ALWAYS beats offense, just the same way that good pitching beats good hitting?

Seriously though, I cannot for the life of me understand how ANYONE thought the Panthers had a chance. They played an uber easy schedule all season, they got LUCKY matching up with the Seahawks when they did, coming off that big Minnesota game in the cold, and still recuperating. Arizona was a joke, (just like I've been saying all along, Palmer SUCKS!) but that Broncos defense is LEGIT!
The Panthers hadn't played a team like them, a team that could bring unceasing pressure.
What's even more important though, that team simply doesn't have ANY weapons offensively aside from Olson (who is a legit stud). So how the heck was most of the country thinking that the Panthers would win??
They have NO ONE offensively who the Broncos worried about, other than Cam Newton, and he's shown all along that when the chips are down, when he gets punched in the face, he folds like a cheap tent every time. The media did the exact same thing they did two seasons ago, they got caught up in the offense (like they always do) only this time with FAR less reason. That Broncos offense two seasons ago was the greatest to ever play football EVER according to the numbers. This Panthers offense was nowhere NEAR that good, in fact it was hugely overrated because of Cam Newton.

I cannot tell you how many people told me, (and my brother the Cowboys fan who was right there with me on the Broncos) that I was stupid and had no idea what I was talking about.
OK... just like I guaranteed a Seahawks win two years ago, I guaranteed a Panther win this year, because DEFENSE.
If it weren't for the unbelievable JJ Watt, Von Miller would have been HANDS DOWN this years defensive MVP. He is right now, the closest thing to a Derrick Thomas clone I've ever seen. He plays just like him, and he can take a game over, literally by himself. Then you add in a future hall of fame DE, and a secondary that looks a lot like the Seahawks (not a surprise that Elway built that defense to resemble the Seahawks after we kicked their teeth in) and for the life of me I cannot understand how Carolina was EVER favored. Denver should have been the favorite from the get go, they have BY FAR the better offensive weapons, as well as the better defense, and MUCH MUCH better secondary, plus a QB who isn't a whiny cry baby like Newton, even if he's past his prime,, he is still elite football IQ.

I was forced into it Monkey!

My buddy and I put a $50 bet down at the beginning of the year, took 1 team from each conference. He had Denver, and my rep from the NFC (the Seahawks obviously) was out, so there was that....plus I was down $20 to another buddy from Wildcard weekend to Championship weekend...since I already had to go for Carolina because of my other bet, I had to go with them again....so I lost $90, but won some prop bets to help me recover a bit.

If I had gone in fresh, I would have taken Denver, but probably would have wanted the points. I thought it would be a FG deciding game, mostly because I thought the Carolina D was good as well. After the Broncos knocked off the Pats, you couldn't help but be a believer it was their year.

[monkey]

Oh man!
That's a tough way to lose 50$, especially when your gut is telling you the smart bet.
Sorry dude, that sucks.