Mebane and Sweezy, gone.

[RiverDog]

Facts:

1- We spend the least percentage of our salary cap of any team in the league on our O-line. By far.

2- We were told at the beginning of the offseason that Pete and John recognized our O-line as an area of concern and that it is a priority.

3- So far this offseason we have lost more ground than we've gained as it pertains to our O-line.

As I see it none of those facts are even questionable unless you really want to argue that J’Marcus Webb and Bradley Sowell are upgrades on the field over Russell Okung and J.R. Sweezy. Pointing out these facts and discussing them is not "complaining", it's merely being aware of the situation as it stands.

Now as discussion points these facts are very interesting and should generate a lot of discussion here, this is a Seahawks discussion board after all and isn't that what we all come here for? Can we stop trying to belittle each other over the simple recognition of them?

Opinions:

1- It is evident that spending less on our O-line as a unit is a core philosophy and it would surprise me to see that change a great deal. It goes against everything I've always believed about building an offense but it has been successful so far! That's the most important point of this entire discussion as I see it. It could be argued (and has been) that our moderate regression over the last couple years is largely attributable to our O-line woes, but holding that opinion is not pushing a panic button.

2- I saw "making it more of a priority" as a promise to increase the level of capital expenditures (both draft and salary cap) on the O-line. It hasn't happened yet but:

3- The offseason is not over!, there is still the draft and there are still potential trades out there to be made that could bear the fruit of the promise. A Joe Thomas trade is still a very real possibility (and would make me ecstatic!), but I'd be surprised to see anything that big happen before the draft.

Nice post, CBob!

The only thing I'd disagree with, and only mildly disagree at that, is that I would not hold out a lot of hope for the draft being a major part of the answer to the riddle of the offensive line, unless it's part of some sort of trade....at least not if we're talking about improving that area vs. simply not backsliding. Picking at #26 lowers our chances of landing a starting quality OL and as I've already stated, appraisal of young OL talent capable of starting in the first year or two is not the strong suit of this brain trust. I can't see us picking up someone in the draft that's going to play better this season than Okung and Sweezy did last year.

I'm right there with ya hoping for a Joe Thomas trade. I can't think of a bigger trade possibility in the past several years that would help us more. Can anyone?

[mykc14]

Facts:

1- We spend the least percentage of our salary cap of any team in the league on our O-line. By far.

2- We were told at the beginning of the offseason that Pete and John recognized our O-line as an area of concern and that it is a priority.

3- So far this offseason we have lost more ground than we've gained as it pertains to our O-line.

As I see it none of those facts are even questionable unless you really want to argue that J’Marcus Webb and Bradley Sowell are upgrades on the field over Russell Okung and J.R. Sweezy. Pointing out these facts and discussing them is not "complaining", it's merely being aware of the situation as it stands.

Now as discussion points these facts are very interesting and should generate a lot of discussion here, this is a Seahawks discussion board after all and isn't that what we all come here for? Can we stop trying to belittle each other over the simple recognition of them?

Opinions:

1- It is evident that spending less on our O-line as a unit is a core philosophy and it would surprise me to see that change a great deal. It goes against everything I've always believed about building an offense but it has been successful so far! That's the most important point of this entire discussion as I see it. It could be argued (and has been) that our moderate regression over the last couple years is largely attributable to our O-line woes, but holding that opinion is not pushing a panic button.

2- I saw "making it more of a priority" as a promise to increase the level of capital expenditures (both draft and salary cap) on the O-line. It hasn't happened yet but:

3- The offseason is not over!, there is still the draft and there are still potential trades out there to be made that could bear the fruit of the promise. A Joe Thomas trade is still a very real possibility (and would make me ecstatic!), but I'd be surprised to see anything that big happen before the draft.

I agree with most of this except that the #3 Opinion isn't really an opinion it should belong in the 'fact' category. It's a fact that the offseason isn't over and there are still moves that can/will be made. This also seems to be one of the points of discussion on this topic. Almost everybody is concerned about the current state of the OL some people are saying lets wait until this offseason is over while others are saying we have already missed the boat on an opportunity to upgrade the OL. I agree there is no need to belittle anybody over their opinion.

[c_hawkbob]

I agree with most of this except that the #3 Opinion isn't really an opinion it should belong in the 'fact' category. It's a fact that the offseason isn't over and there are still moves that can/will be made. This also seems to be one of the points of discussion on this topic. Almost everybody is concerned about the current state of the OL some people are saying lets wait until this offseason is over while others are saying we have already missed the boat on an opportunity to upgrade the OL. I agree there is no need to belittle anybody over their opinion.

Well noted and I agree, the first sentence of #3 opinion should actually have been #4 fact.

[obiken]

That's just not true C-bob we spend, according to Chuck Powell at KJR, 5.7% on our OL, which is not only last but way last. 31 is the Tenn Titans, who spend 12%. So someone is off.

[obiken]

Pete is a Defensive coach so it's probably not in the cards. Besides Defenses win championships - and that's not just a saying as most of the recent Super Bowl winners were Defensive in nature.
As well their plan might fit better with the limited practice time the CBA permits.

Ok that makes sense.

[c_hawkbob]

That's just not true C-bob we spend, according to Chuck Powell at KJR, 5.7% on our OL, which is not only last but way last. 31 is the Tenn Titans, who spend 12%. So someone is off.

You must have misread me Obi, that's what I said.

[NorthHawk]

That's just not true C-bob we spend, according to Chuck Powell at KJR, 5.7% on our OL, which is not only last but way last. 31 is the Tenn Titans, who spend 12%. So someone is off.

Aren't the numbers a little skewed by the departures of Okung and Sweezy?
The Draft might fill the void a little and the addition of some possible surprising cuts as well.
Let's have a look at the % on opening day before coming to conclusions, as well if they are going younger with that group, naturally the money will be less than established veterans.
If they can make late round picks work then it's a bonus but it's a bit of a gamble in my opinion and they will have to keep letting players go after being trained in our system.
Continuity with this CBA is a big factor I'm concerned about.

[burrrton]

That's just not true C-bob we spend, according to Chuck Powell at KJR, 5.7% on our OL, which is not only last but way last. 31 is the Tenn Titans, who spend 12%.

So? I agree we need to get better on the o-line, but I can see no correlation between offensive line spending and a team's success (or really even the quality of the o-line), so who gives a rip whether we're #2, #15, or dead last in that category?

[obiken]

You must have misread me Obi, that's what I said.

Oh sorry!

[HumanCockroach]

You just made my point. It's unrealistic to think that we can upgrade our OL in the short term through the draft. If the goal is to capitalize on our "window", then we should not be counting on the draft to get us back to the SB this coming season.

RiverDog
Legacy

Posts: 4818
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:52 am
Location: Kennewick, WA, 99338

So you admit Seattle is going to have to win with what's available talent and cost wise, and that they are as good at talent evaluation as every other FO in the league ( or better) and that until there is an actual lineman worth the amount of money being spent on lineman worse than what Seattle already has or can attain they should refrain from losing important pieces to sign them? Fantastic. Also cool that you're acknowledging that no lineman in the draft is going to fill that role ( and hasn't been available despite your Previous claims to the contrary) and that despite all of that, there's is little reason to panic right now as players will become available to add depth and competition in multiple different forms over the next several months. Glad you've seen reason.

[RiverDog]

So you admit Seattle is going to have to win with what's available talent and cost wise,

Not much of an admission there. Of course, we're going to have to win with what's available talent and cost wise. Who doesn't?

and that they are as good at talent evaluation as every other FO in the league ( or better)

At most positions, particularly on defense, I'd agree. But not when it comes to offensive linemen, especially linemen coming out of college. Any FO that thought James Carpenter was an NFL OT ought to have their heads examined.

and that until there is an actual lineman worth the amount of money being spent on lineman worse than what Seattle already has or can attain they should refrain from losing important pieces to sign them?

Not sure exactly what you mean by "worth the amount of money". That's an extremely subjective term. For example, Joe Thomas may be worth a lot more to us than he would for a rebuilding team like Cleveland. We have a window of opportunity, Cleveland doesn't. "Important pieces" is pretty subjective, too. You'd have to put player's names into the equation, not some generic term.

Fantastic. Also cool that you're acknowledging that no lineman in the draft is going to fill that role ( and hasn't been available despite your Previous claims to the contrary) and that despite all of that, there's is little reason to panic right now as players will become available to add depth and competition in multiple different forms over the next several months.

Now I don't think I said exactly that. I said it is unlikely, particularly at #26 overall, and not given our deficient appraisal of OL talent. Additionally, there's more to the draft than just the players in the draft pool. We could acquire a linemen via trading draft picks or a combination of picks and players. It's an opportunity to improve our team.

Glad you've seen reason.

I'm glad you're glad.

[obiken]

Man you do battle with Human a lot better than I do River! He's a smart guy, though.

[RiverDog]

Man you do battle with Human a lot better than I do River! He's a smart guy, though.

HC's top notch, knows his football. Contrary to what he may think, I read every word of his posts.

[monkey]

So? I agree we need to get better on the o-line, but I can see no correlation between offensive line spending and a team's success (or really even the quality of the o-line), so who gives a rip whether we're #2, #15, or dead last in that category?

Agreed completely.
That's a number that really means nothing, and, is skewed (as was pointed out above me) by the losses of Okung and Sweezy.
We'll add guys in the draft, and likely one more free agent as well, and that number will change some. Even if we remain on the bottom of the list though, who cares? It doesn't mean our line will stink, or be good or anything.It's just a number that some people are TRYING to say shows that Pete and John just don't care about the line enough. I'm not buying it. Pete and John want to win and protect Wilson more than ANY of us. The number is really just reflective of the fact that they just lost two starters, and have decided to blow up a line that was already terrible, and rebuild it with cheaper, younger guys who will compete for their spots.

[RiverDog]

Agreed completely.
That's a number that really means nothing, and, is skewed (as was pointed out above me) by the losses of Okung and Sweezy.
We'll add guys in the draft, and likely one more free agent as well, and that number will change some. Even if we remain on the bottom of the list though, who cares? It doesn't mean our line will stink, or be good or anything.It's just a number that some people are TRYING to say shows that Pete and John just don't care about the line enough. I'm not buying it. Pete and John want to win and protect Wilson more than ANY of us. The number is really just reflective of the fact that they just lost two starters, and have decided to blow up a line that was already terrible, and rebuild it with cheaper, younger guys who will compete for their spots.

The problem with not spending very much is that it makes it appear as if we aren't trying to upgrade the OL after Pete made a pledge to do so. I'm not necessarily saying that the perception is reality, but it is evidence of a lack of commitment.

[monkey]

A lack of commitment, or a lower priority?
I'd suggest it's evidence of the latter, not a lack of commitment.
Teams always have to prioritize, and so far, the Seahawks priorities have taken us to our first ever Super Bowl win, back to back Super Bowl appearance, and four straight seasons of deep playoff runs.

[RiverDog]

A lack of commitment, or a lower priority?
I'd suggest it's evidence of the latter, not a lack of commitment.
Teams always have to prioritize, and so far, the Seahawks priorities have taken us to our first ever Super Bowl win, back to back Super Bowl appearance, and four straight seasons of deep playoff runs.

Pete made a commitment, promise, pledge, or whatever, to upgrade the OL. The lack of spending on the OL is one piece of evidence a person could use to argue that he didn't really mean what he said.

[NorthHawk]

We're only about a third the way through the process, RD.
Let's see what has transpired by the start of the season.

[monkey]

We're only about a third the way through the process, RD.
Let's see what has transpired by the start of the season.

EXACTLY!
When we come away with three o-linemen in the draft, one of whom will be a starter, then pick up a free agent who gets cut as a cost saving move after the draft, we'll look back at all the worry and wonder what the fuss was about.

That reminds me. I've made several predictions, specifically over the last three-four years, which I would categorize as BOLD. I hit on some, missed on some, and was...I dunno, sort of right and sort of wrong on some. (My Sweezy prediction from last year was both right and wrong. He WAS our best lineman, but that really wasn't saying much. He did end up getting a huge contract, but with the Bucs. He was the lines MVP, but again...not saying much. I guess I'll have to call that a miss, even if I could say I wasn't completely wrong. I digress though.)

It's time for me to take another stab at a seriously BOLD prediction. Once again, I am predicting big time success for someone on the offensive line.
Garry Gilliam.
Bold prediction (in bold of course : Garry Gilliam, this year, has a superb year, becoming BY FAR our best offensive lineman, in the process making everyone forget all about the loss of Okung (or as we will refer to him, what's-his-name ). Furthermore, Garry Gilliam, THIS YEAR, will have a pro bowl season at LT, UPGRADING that position, partly by virtue of just staying healthy, and partly by virtue of, flat out outplaying Okung's best efforts, and will get voted to the pro bowl!
Note: Players don't always get voted into the pro bowl in the same season that their play makes them worthy of it. Often it takes a year or two before fans, and even other players know them well enough, and they get enough name recognition that they make it into the bowl.
That's what makes this prediction a truly bold one.

Now you all can make fun of me if it doesn't happen.

[RiverDog]

We're only about a third the way through the process, RD.
Let's see what has transpired by the start of the season.

Understood and agreed. I was simply supporting Cbob's point about the lack of spending on the OL and the FACT that as of this point in time, we have made little if any effort to improve the OL.

[obiken]

Yeah I owe him an apology, I skimmed over that post instead of actually reading it, and jumped on him. Sorry CB!

[RiverDog]

Yeah I owe him an apology, I skimmed over that post instead of actually reading it, and jumped on him. Sorry CB!

Obi, I've gone more rounds with CBob than the roadrunner has with the coyote and he still talks to me, so speaking for him, I doubt that he feels that you owe him an apology.

[HumanCockroach]

It's time for me to take another stab at a seriously BOLD prediction. Once again, I am predicting big time success for someone on the offensive line.
Garry Gilliam.
Bold prediction (in bold of course : Garry Gilliam, this year, has a superb year, becoming BY FAR our best offensive lineman, in the process making everyone forget all about the loss of Okung (or as we will refer to him, what's-his-name ). Furthermore, Garry Gilliam, THIS YEAR, will have a pro bowl season at LT, UPGRADING that position, partly by virtue of just staying healthy, and partly by virtue of, flat out outplaying Okung's best efforts, and will get voted to the pro bowl!
Note: Players don't always get voted into the pro bowl in the same season that their play makes them worthy of it. Often it takes a year or two before fans, and even other players know them well enough, and they get enough name recognition that they make it into the bowl.
That's what makes this prediction a truly bold one.

Now you all can make fun of me if it doesn't happen.

monkey
Legacy

Posts: 1390
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:40 pm

I'm not going that far, I don't think Gilliam going to avoid all of the growing pains, that said I DID point out his athleticism, and while I'm not predicting probowl all pro stuff, I honestly believe when everything is said and done, that Gilliam may end up being an improvement, and THIS season even WITH his growing pains will play at the level Okung did last season ( granted the bar isn't that high, but still. Despite what people seem to be hung up on, the $$$$ don't always equate to a ' better' lineman regardless of what they think. Spending huge money in free agency is ludicrous ( after all how do they think those lineman GOT to free agency? A clerical error or something?) sometimes, it is far wiser to either allow an ' expensive' player that underperforms to walk ( Okung) or a young good player that isn't consistent to get paid based on untapped talent ( Sweezy) than it is to pay them and say goodbye to premier PERFORMERS at other spots. Many will understand not signing guys like Mathis ( or even Okung, Sweezy and Carpenter) if it costs you Wilson, BUT they are fine with losing Irvin,Chancellor, Wagner and Wright to keep them? That's insane. I don't care how good Wilson is, if you fleece the rest of your team for average or inconsistent protection, they are NOT winning anymore SBs. Just not going to work.) every team HAS to make choices, I personally have ZERO doubt if they had found a Walter Jones, they would have PAID him, whether he was their player, or a free agent, problem is, that player hasn't been available in the draft, through free agency or trade ( and honestly, I don't think he exists whether people think Thomas is him or not, WATCH the tape, he isn't, he isn't even CLOSE)...

I understand the desire for improvement and upgrades, I want the same, the only difference is, I grasp the talent pool, what's available and the cost/reward. Gilliam at 1/10th the cost of Okung, even if his performance isn't as good ( though as I said I believe it will be) IS a SMART decision regardless of what people insist ( especially without even seeing him play the position yet) because it ALLOWS Seattle another year where they aren't jettisoning players they NEED to be right back in the thick of things. As much as people hate seeing Wilson have to move, EVERY QB has to move, regardless of who is on that line, just the nature of the NFL.

[c_hawkbob]

Yeah I owe him an apology, I skimmed over that post instead of actually reading it, and jumped on him. Sorry CB!

No need to apologize for skimming, we all do it!

[HumanCockroach]

http://www.seahawks.com/news/2016/04/05 ... 23816560=1

[HumanCockroach]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... ks-o-line/

[c_hawkbob]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/04/05/pro-why-its-not-too-late-to-fix-seahawks-o-line/

From the article:

The Seahawks do, however, need an immediate upgrade at left tackle, with Garry Gilliam’s form at right tackle last season offering no reassurance of a smooth transition to LT in 2016

[HumanCockroach]

Your point?

They needed the same if Okung had been resigned or not.

http://www.hawkblogger.com/2015/12/the- ... -line.html

Gilliam has done nothing but improve, I'll go ahead and trust the guys bringing those SB appearances to decide whether he's as good as needed or not.

He entered camp as a backup left tackle, and practiced exclusively on that side until shoddy play by Alvin Bailey at left guard and Justin Britt at right tackle forced the team find a way for Gilliam to get on the field. That involved shifting Britt to left guard and Gilliam to right tackle. He was given two weeks to learn his new position, including the flipping his footwork and hand positioning, before facing Robert Quinn, Chris Long and the St. Louis Rams. It predictably did not go well.

His strength has always been his athleticism, which helped him move his feet and stay in front of speedy pass rushers. It took some time for that to translate into solid regular season performance, but no player on the line has improved as much over the season than Gilliam

[c_hawkbob]

My point is not everybody, not even those writing the articles you use to supposedly bolster your view, has the rosy outlook about the current state O-line that you have.

Improved or not we are not in good shape at LT going into the season with Gilliam as the starter.

[monkey]

Why? What's wrongwith the guy they've been grooming to play LT playing LT?
Sorry but somehow that just doesn't make sense. They've been planning all along to play Gilliam there, are you saying that the plan all along was a bad one? How can you know that? Tom Cable doesn't think so, Pete Carroll doesn't think so, this was their plan all along.
Are you saying we'd have been better off with Okung at LT?
For how long? Think he'd have played more than 10 games this year? Anything is possible I suppose, seems unlikely considering his past injury problems.
Just saying.

[c_hawkbob]

Because he is not a starting caliber NFL LT. I'm sorry you don't agree but I just don't see what you see in him. He may yet one day be, but it ain't gonna be this year.

I think you're assuming more than has been said by saying "They've been planning all along to play him there", I think "trying him there is more accurate. Besides, even if they have been grooming him specifically for LT that doesn't mean "as the starting LT", especially not this soon.

Yes, money aside we'd have been better off with Okung at LT, and I see that as a no brainer.

[HumanCockroach]

My point is not everybody, not even those writing the articles you use to supposedly bolster your view, has the rosy outlook about the current state O-line that you have.

Improved or not we are not in good shape at LT going into the season with Gilliam as the starter.

You think I posted that article to "bolster my view"? Really?

I don't limit my view or opinion or judgement on finite information, I look at everything... It's unfortunate that others are incapable at looking at every angle, negative, positive and indifferent prior to doing so.

I posted the link because it was relevant, nothing more. Per your own statements, using the information I provided ( both sides of it, not simply one to support this BS "rosy" outlook our "pride") Gilliam WAS playing at ( actually a HIGHER level if run blocking production is taken in to account) as Okung. That's simply the truth per PFF, that with 2 weeks to learn the position. Claim all you want about someone you've never seen play a snaps destined failure, I seem to remember people claiming the same about the converted D- lineman that you professed would be a pro bowler, the same about Carpenter who will probably appear in a couple himself, ultimately, you haven't a clue one way or the other whether he's a starting NFL tackle, just like me.

[RiverDog]

They've been planning all along to play Gilliam there (at LT)....

They have? Since when?

I know they've discussed playing him there, but I've never heard it expressed as some long term plan as you are suggesting it's been.

[HumanCockroach]

Because he is not a starting caliber NFL LT. I'm sorry you don't agree but I just don't see what you see in him. He may yet one day be, but it ain't gonna be this year.

I think you're assuming more than has been said by saying "They've been planning all along to play him there", I think "trying him there is more accurate. Besides, even if they have been grooming him specifically for LT that doesn't mean "as the starting LT", especially not this soon.

Yes, money aside we'd have been better off with Okung at LT, and I see that as a no brainer.

So the guys you insisted all of last season got a "pass" ( the SB winning coaches) kept a player on the active roster( manning he was at least a viable NFL lineman) and then STATED him over their drafted hand picked player, excelled the last third of the season ( 17th rated tackle in the NFL in pass protection, number 1 tackle in the NFL in run blocking - Which would be HIGHER than Okung) but he isn't an NFL tackle?

Don't take this wrong Bob, but is it really so crazy to trust the guys that have spent the last four years winnings opinion, higher than a couple of nervous couch GMs evaluation of a player they have never seen take a single snap at LT? I mean, Cable and Carroll have right? And evaluated him at least good enough to be given the chance to open training camp as the starter.

[HumanCockroach]

They have? Since when?

I know they've discussed playing him there, but I've never heard it expressed as some long term plan as you are suggesting it's been

.

http://www.hawkblogger.com/2015/12/the- ... -line.html

Garry Gilliam was a tight end in college who transitioned to a left tackle. He went undrafted before being signed by the Seahawks last season. He made the team, and trained as a backup left tackle all year before starring in the NFC Championship game when he caught a touchdown pass from punter Jon Ryan.

He entered camp as a backup left tackle, and practiced exclusively on that side until shoddy play by Alvin Bailey at left guard and Justin Britt at right tackle forced the team find a way for Gilliam to get on the field. That involved shifting Britt to left guard and Gilliam to right tackle. He was given two weeks to learn his new position, including the flipping his footwork and hand positioning, before facing Robert Quinn, Chris Long and the St. Louis Rams. It predictably did not go well.

His strength has always been his athleticism, which helped him move his feet and stay in front of speedy pass rushers. It took some time for that to translate into solid regular season performance, but no player on the line has improved as much over the season than Gilliam.

You guys should really take a look...

[RiverDog]

I mean, Cable and Carroll have right? And evaluated him at least good enough to be given the chance to open training camp as the starter.

Pete's a genius when it comes to his defensive acumen, but he's not as reliable when it comes to his offensive talent evaluation, especially where it concerns offensive linemen. After all, it was him and Tom Cable that made the judgment that James Carpenter had what it takes to be a NFL offensive tackle. I am not going to sleep well at night just because Pete says Gilliam is going to do just fine at LT.

[HumanCockroach]

No, Cable made the assessment that Carpenter was an NFL lineman. That tackle thing is you, not him, not Carroll. There's a heck of a LOT of college tackles drafted ( especially in weak offensive lineman drafts at the end of the first round) that transition to guards. INCLUDING the tackle you wanted Seattle to draft instead of Carpenter that year ( the guy on his third or fourth team). Forgive me if I'm wrong, but is he not a starting NFL lineman? A pretty damn good one to. Regardless of your bias since day one on Carpenter, he's strong, athletic and a QUALITY starting offensive lineman that has had a more successful career, more earnings and more success than any lineman you wanted instead of him... Lamenting a successful pick, regardless of a position change seems kind of foolish to me. You think the Niners lamented drafting Lott? Pittsburgh lamented Lambert or Woodsen? But for some unknown reason you continue to get hung up on players college positions. Don't really understand it.

[monkey]

They have? Since when?

Since pretty much day one, at least since Cable let the cat out of the bag last year. I assumed this was common knowledge.
Cable loved his athleticism and thought that given some time, he would become the starter at LT, but knew it would take a little time as he was still learning the ropes coming from playing TE in college.
Seriously, I assumed everyone knew that.
You guys need to visit Field Gulls, and Seahawks draft blog. We've been talking about Gilliam taking over at LT for well over a year now. Last year at RT was his audition for the LT role, when Okung would be allowed to walk due to his cost and injuries.

EDIT: LOL! I should have read further, I see HC answered the question as well. Yeah, Hawkblogger has also been talking about this happening for quite some time now.
Seriously, it was common knowledge that was the plan all along. What was NOT part of the plan actually, was GIlliam playing RT last year, that happened because of the horrible play of Bailey (who got let go as a result). Cable was going to keep GIlliam as backup LT, keep allowing him to grow and learn, and then play GIllaim at LT this year after Okung left. That was the long term plan,, it just got changed up a bit last year when they had to play him at RT. But they used that as a sort of trial by fire, and audition, which he totally nailed actually.
Gilliam held up very well at RT last year, I expect him to be even better at LT this year, especially after seeing hte work he's been putting in. He's bigger, stronger, and in better shape than he's ever been right now.
I personally would be FAR more worried about LG and center than I would LT if the season started today.

[monkey]

Because he is not a starting caliber NFL LT. I'm sorry you don't agree but I just don't see what you see in him. He may yet one day be, but it ain't gonna be this year.

I do disagree, completely.
I think he's ready to go, and I think he's going to surprise you pleasantly with just how ready he is.

I'm not sure how closely you guys all watched Gilliam in particular, because the interior of the line was such a problem for so long, but GIlliam more htan held his own in pass pro, and in terms of run blocking, he was outstanding.
I *believe* (I might be wrong but I remember reading somewhere) he graded out as the best run blocking tackle in the NFL.
Like I said in my bold prediction post, I think he will UPGRADE the LT spot overall, because of his terrific run blocking, and his more than adequate pass protection as well.

EDIT: I really do need to keep reading. HC once again stole my thunder, he confirmed that indeed GIlliam was ranked as the leagues best run blocking tackle.
Geez HC, throw me a bone here why doncha?

[monkey]

After all, it was him and Tom Cable that made the judgment that James Carpenter had what it takes to be a NFL offensive tackle. I am not going to sleep well at night just because Pete says Gilliam is going to do just fine at LT.

This time I read ahead, so ditto to what HC said already, they decided he'd make a good GUARD, not tackle.
BTW, he HAS become a good guard. He got a pretty sizable second contract (seems to keep happening to our guys once they leave), and he's become a pretty darned decent guard for the Jets. His run blocking always was terrific, he was a road grader.
So really, Cable and Pete were exactly RIGHT about Carpenter.
Thus far, the only guy they've really missed on (and I don't think the story is written yet, he could very well still get better, and probably will) is Justin Britt, who they reached for (which John admitted recently) in the second round due to what John perceived as a big drop off after him.
Personally, I'm going ot sleep just fine knowing Gilliam is at LT. I'm much more worried about center and both guard positions, because we don't know other than just one game what we'll get at RG, and at least until we draft someone better, we've got Britt as the LG at the moment.