A fun time sink, (a fun, fan draft site)

[HumanCockroach]

Kind of amazing the variance between sites, though in every one of them I ran after the Rams trade multiple offensive lineman like Conklin "fell" to Seattle at the end of the first round, and a few times he fell into the beginning of the second. A player on one site will have a top 30 ranking, on another somewhere in the 90's ( or even later). Really highlights that NO ONE has all that good of an idea where to place really any players beyond the top 15 spots or so...


26: R1P26
OT JACK CONKLIN
MICHIGAN STATE
56: R2P25
G LANDON TURNER
NORTH CAROLINA
90: R3P27
OLB KAMALEI CORREA
BOISE STATE
97: R3P34
WR DEVON CAJUSTE
STANFORD
124: R4P26
DT JAVON HARGRAVE
SOUTH CAROLINA STATE
171: R5P32
FB GLENN GRONKOWSKI
KANSAS STATE
215: R6P40
OT JOE DAHL
WASHINGTON STATE
225: R7P4
CB CRE'VON LEBLANC
FLORIDA ATLANTIC
247: R7P26
RB JONATHAN WILLIAMS
ARKANSAS
TEAM DRAFT ASSESSMENT
CB
CRE'VON LEBLANC
FLORIDA ATLANTIC
RB
JONATHAN WILLIAMS
ARKANSAS
OT
JACK CONKLIN
MICHIGAN STATE
C NONE DRAFTED
DT
JAVON HARGRAVE
SOUTH CAROLINA STATE
DE NONE DRAFTED
OLB
KAMALEI CORREA
BOISE STATE
QB NONE DRAFTED
S NONE DRAFTED
WR
DEVON CAJUSTE
STANFORD

I would absolutely be down with a draft like this ( I personally believe Dahl will be converted to center whether in Seattle or somewhere else) Conklin at RT/ Turner at Guard athletic Sam, FB, Reciever nice DT what's not to like? I don't feel like the Hawks were blowing smoke when they said this was the deepest draft they have ever had... Then done ago well even in drafts that were "thin" despite lower picks, pretty excited to see what they do in a flush one...

[NorthHawk]

That would be an embarrassment of riches, monkey. If we only get the top half it would be a success.
I'm wondering if Coleman has the size at RT they seem to want after having Breno at 6-7 320 and now Webb at 6-7 335.
Coleman is 6-5 305. Maybe he can put on 15 lbs without losing much athleticism.

I have to do some research on Braunecker as I don't know much about him.

[NorthHawk]

Kind of amazing the variance between sites, though in every one of them I ran after the Rams trade multiple offensive lineman like Conklin "fell" to Seattle at the end of the first round, and a few times he fell into the beginning of the second. A player on one site will have a top 30 ranking, on another somewhere in the 90's ( or even later). Really highlights that NO ONE has all that good of an idea where to place really any players beyond the top 15 spots or so...

It sure points out the 'mockery' (sorry) of draft grades and reaches called by the media analysts.
I like your draft, and Turner looks like he could be good, but his SPARQ numbers don't fit what we have selected in the past.
I always feel that ability always outweighs the measureables.
I also get the impression Hargrave is somewhat underrated, but we'll see how he does at the NFL level. Sometimes players can't make the next step.

[NorthHawk]

These results show how wildly different the evaluations are.
I think this guy is on drugs...

26: R1P26
OT GERMAIN IFEDI
TEXAS A&M
56: R2P25
G CODY WHITEHAIR
KANSAS STATE
90: R3P27
DE BRONSON KAUFUSI
BRIGHAM YOUNG
97: R3P34
S MILES KILLEBREW
SOUTHERN UTAH
124: R4P26
DT HASSAN RIDGEWAY
TEXAS
171: R5P32
DT JARRAN REED
ALABAMA
215: R6P40
CB XAVIEN HOWARD
BAYLOR
225: R7P4
WR DEVON CAJUSTE
STANFORD
247: R7P26
OT LE'RAVEN CLARK

[monkey]

Once again Rob Staten of Seahawks draft blog and I (and apparently myck14 as well LOL!) are thinking almost exactly the same.
Over the last two days now, he's posted about how Kyler Fackrell, who Myck14 and I are both just super high on, and about how Devon Cajuste would be a perfect fit for Seattle.
I just couldn't agree more, and have been saying so for a while.
I am absolutely convinced Fackrell and Cajuste would be a studs for us at LB and WR/TE, and both could be, should be thought of as players we just cannot leave the draft without.
About Cajuste, he said

Cajuste is attractive for many key reasons. Aside from his athletic profile — he’s a terrific run blocker (important in Seattle), he’s used to working in a run-first offense with a scrambling quarterback, he maxed out his limited targets in college, he’s a red zone threat and he’s very close to Doug Baldwin.

“I feel like I represent Doug in a way because he wore ’89’ at Stanford, so the fact that I got to wear that, I had to keep his legacy going.”
— Devon Cajuste

Everything about his character, his athletic profile, his experience — it screams Seahawks. He’s being projected in rounds 4-5 — and there’s no guarantee he lasts until the late fourth.

If you haven't read his blog about Fackrell's fit in Seattle, give it a read. It's so worth it. http://seahawksdraftblog.com/guest-post-bob-kaupang-on-kyler-fackrells-fit-in-seattle

The more time you spend figuring out the types of players the Seahawks have drafted in the past and why, and therefore, the types they covet and will be looking for on draft day, the more it's easy to see why the media is always so surprised by the Seahawks drafts on draft day, and then has to backtrack later when so many of Seattle's picks work out compared to the rest of the league.

When Myck14 and I are basically talking the exact same players, for the exact same reasons, you could call that coincidence, but when we're talking about the exact same guys for the exact same reasons as someone like Rob Staten, who has had an amazing track record of prognosticating the Seahawks drafts under John and Pete, it's not coincidence, it is evidence of a pattern that can easily be understood. There is a real method behind John and Pete's success, one that involves several factors, but one that can be easily enough figured out.
Start with Pete's philosophy of "Win Forever", and "Always Compete". Think of them as more than just cute catch phrases, think of them as bedrock principles that Pete and John will not deviate from in any way.
That immediately rules out several candidates that the media keeps trying to say we might target. Nkemdiche for starters, is immediately eliminated by his own words. He will not be a Seahawks draft pick, I can guarantee it. Not even if he slides to the fourth round, DESPITE the fact that he almost PERFECTLY fits their criteria in terms of athleticism.
Then factor in known ideals that Pete John and Tom have in terms of measurables. They have minimum standards for things like height and arm length with corner backs, and arm length with offensive linemen, etc...
Then factor in the numbers from the combine or pro day workouts, private workouts etc..., they have minimum standards for things like broad jump for offensive linemen (because they want explosive run blockers for the ZBS), as an example.
Finally, factor in intangibles that Pete and John look for, leadership, character (which isn't always what we mean by that) grit, which really shows up in players who've overcome adversity, and of course, a competitive nature.
What's left are a much smaller pool of players who the Seahawks would actually be willing to draft. From there you can make your best educated guesses as to who they'll actually take, but you really don't have to guess with some players who you know they absolutely will NOT be targeting or even looking at, because they don't measure up in one area or another.
Someone like Darron Lee for example, if he fell to us at #26 (won't happen but hypothetically speaking), the media would NEVER understand us not taking him there. But we would be far more likely to either draft someone else, or trade down, than take Lee.
"But he's a LB and a good one!", you say, "And he fills a need!".
True on all counts, but he doesn't fit the athletic profile we look for, at least I should say, he doesn't fit it well enough.
Vadal Alexander from LSU and Landon Turner from North Carolina, are both rated much higher at guard in the media than someone like say, Conner McGovern, but Conner McGovern is FAR, FAR more likely to be chosen by the Seahawks, because, even though he's an unfinished product who needs some coaching up at the next level, he PERFECTLY fits what we look for in our ZBS system.
Joshua Garnett from Stanford is a guy who is a local guy, and who considers playing for Seattle, a dream scenario.He too is ranked higher on basically every board than guys like McGovern or Alex Redmond, and yet, while Seattle MIGHT take Garnett if he falls, they would do so more for his high character, and for his grit, than his athleticism. If it came down to him or Redmond, I strongly suspect that Seattle would pass on Garnett, (even though the media would call that stupid) and wait a round or two and take Redmond instead.
If there is any one rule to keep in mind with Seattle's drafts under John and Pete it is that the Seattle Seahawks draft FOR THEIR TEAM ONLY! They aren't concerned much with "value", they would rather be accused of reaching for a player who fits what they look for, than take a better value player who doesn't. This is exactly why I don't see someone like Bama RB Henry getting drafted to Seattle. I know that they've actually had an official visit with him, but never trust that, those visits are used to confuse other teams, and throw other teams off the scent, as often as they are used to eliminate or confirm potential draft candidates.
Henry fits in many ways with Seattle, he ran mostly behind a ZBS line at Bama, his athleticism is unquestionably outstanding for someone his size, etc...but in the end, his weakness, which is his inability to make people miss or break tackles behind the line of scrimmage, assures us that he will not likely be a draft pick here.

Once you've put all of that together, the picture really becomes pretty clear. There really are only a handful of offensive linemen that they will even consider at all. (Same with every other position for that matter) Corners, safeties, running backs, wide receivers, you name it, there are traits and measurables and character qualities that every candidate MUST reach or they will not be selected. It's really not all that hard to figure out which players are the ones who the Seahawks will REALLY be targeting.

[mykc14]

Great post monkey! I saw that Staten wrote an article about cajuste today, but I haven't been able to read it yet. I am excited about the prospect of him in a hawks uniform.

[HumanCockroach]

While I agree with what you said Monkey( like 97%), I feel like you are somehow being a little to stringent with the absolutes. I don't feel they work in absolutes in regards to evaluating talent and drafting on all instances. For example Michael, Ward and Simon ALL had questions about their selfishness coming into the draft, their work habits and dedication and all three were drafted by the same front office you are saying absolutely will not draft that type of player.

I'm not saying you are wrong, just pointing it that sometimes the players physical ability overrides the mindset they are looking for or vice versa. Personally, it feels to me that ALL of those criteria factor in, and if they are lacking in one area or another slightly, but meet multiple criteria, or drastically exceed in desired areas, Seattle will indeed select them.

I haven't the foggiest who exactly they will select, simply feel they are far more malleable than it seems you believe them to be. I have little doubt they contain a "smaller" pool to select from, I just don't feel it's quite as exclusive as you do.

[monkey]

Well then in that case, HC, were actually agree 99.9999% then, because while I didn't emphasise the exceptions to the rules, I readily acknowledge there always address some though they certainly try to stick to their standards as much as possible.

[NorthHawk]

They also look for players that have accomplished something in College, but for some reason might have fallen.
If, for instance, Tyler Matakevich fell to us in the 4th, I think they would look long and hard at selecting him - maybe even jump at the chance as after all he was the AAC Defensive Player of the Year, the Bronko Nagurski Trophy, and the Chuck Bednarik award winner last year. They might even like him as our 2nd 3rd round selection considering he just makes plays.
His SPARQ numbers aren't near the top however, but his production stands out.
Whatever formula, matrix, alchemy, or sorcery they use it seems to work on Defense for the most part and I would expect another convert to OL from DL again this year.
Two players that I think would be options are Joel Heath, DT Michigan State and Connor Wujciak, DT Boston College. Both have excellent athleticism and might be there in the 6th or 7th.

[HumanCockroach]

26: R1P26
DT JONATHAN BULLARD
FLORIDA
56: R2P25
OLB KYLER FACKRELL
UTAH STATE
90: R3P27
TE AUSTIN HOOPER
STANFORD
97: R3P34
G JOSHUA GARNETT
STANFORD
124: R4P26
OT JOE DAHL
WASHINGTON STATE
171: R5P32
RB KELVIN TAYLOR
FLORIDA
215: R6P40
WR DEVON CAJUSTE
STANFORD
225: R7P4
DE AZIZ SHITTU
STANFORD
247: R7P26
S ELIJAH SHU

Drastic differences..

26: R1P26
CB VERNON HARGREAVES
FLORIDA
56: R2P25
G CONNOR MCGOVERN
MISSOURI
90: R3P27
DT ADOLPHUS WASHINGTON
OHIO STATE
97: R3P34
OLB JORDAN JENKINS
GEORGIA
124: R4P26
OT JOE DAHL
WASHINGTON STATE
171: R5P32
RB KELVIN TAYLOR
FLORIDA
215: R6P40
WR DEVON CAJUSTE
STANFORD
225: R7P4
OT CALEB BENENOCH
UCLA
247: R7P26
DE DEVONTE FIELDS
LOUISVILLE

[HumanCockroach]

Man Friday can't get here fast enough ( though I kind of doubt they even pick on Friday)..


26: R1P26
OLB NOAH SPENCE
EASTERN KENTUCKY
56: R2P25
DT ADOLPHUS WASHINGTON
OHIO ST.
90: R3P27
G CONNOR MCGOVERN
MISSOURI
97: R3P34
CB JONATHAN JONES
AUBURN
124: R4P26
C EVAN BOEHM
MISSOURI
171: R5P32
OT JOE DAHL
WASHINGTON ST.
215: R6P40
G VI TEOFILO
ARIZONA ST.
225: R7P4
DE SHAWN OAKMAN
BAYLOR
247: R7P26
TE JAKE

[HumanCockroach]

26: R1P26
OT TAYLOR DECKER
OHIO STATE
56: R2P25
CB ARTIE BURNS
MIAMI (FLA.)
90: R3P27
DT ADOLPHUS WASHINGTON
OHIO STATE
97: R3P34
G CONNOR MCGOVERN
MISSOURI
124: R4P26
WR KENNY LAWLER
CALIFORNIA
171: R5P32
OT JOE DAHL
WASHINGTON STATE
215: R6P40
OLB TRAVIS FEENEY
WASHINGTON
225: R7P4
C MIKE MATTHEWS
TEXAS A&M
247: R7P26
TE JAKE DUZEY
IOWA

26: R1P26
DE DEFOREST BUCKNER
OREGON
56: R2P25
G JOSHUA GARNETT
STANFORD
90: R3P27
OLB JAYLON SMITH
NOTRE DAME
97: R3P34
G CHRISTIAN WESTERMAN
ARIZONA STATE
124: R4P26
OT JOE HAEG
NORTH DAKOTA ST
171: R5P32
DT DAVION PIERSON
TCU
215: R6P40
WR JAYDON MICKENS
WASHINGTON
225: R7P4
CB KEVIN PETERSON
OKLAHOMA STATE
247: R7P26
RB DEANDRE WASHINGTON
TEXAS TECH

26: R1P26
DT SHELDON RANKINS
LOUISVILLE
56: R2P25
OLB SU'A CRAVENS
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
90: R3P27
G CONNOR MCGOVERN
MISSOURI
97: R3P34
OT JOE DAHL
WASHINGTON STATE
124: R4P26
WR DEVON CAJUSTE
STANFORD
171: R5P32
RB PEYTON BARBER
AUBURN
215: R6P40
FB GLENN GRONKOWSKI
KANSAS STATE
225: R7P4
CB MORGAN BURNS
KANSAS STATE
247: R7P26
G VI TEOFILO
ARIZONA STATE

Really is shocking how drastically different each ranking system is..

[NorthHawk]

Really is shocking how drastically different each ranking system is.

It's interesting that there is very little consensus of player rankings after the first few or maybe up to 10. They are different by rounds in many cases, not just 32 spots, but sometimes by more than 100.