Josh Norman- Free Agent

[mykc14]

The Panthers have pulled the F-Tag from Norman, who now becomes a Free Agent. Basically the Panthers said they realized that there was no way that they were going to get a long term deal done with him so they decided to let him go. Pretty crazy. It does free up a ton of cap space to resign their 2 stud DT's, but it also seems like they could have got something else done. Maybe tried to trade him (I know they cant actually trade him until he signs the F-Tag, but they could have allowed him to work out a contract with another team and then trade him) so they could at least get something in return. I could easily see somebody giving into his high contract demands, whatever they are.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... osh-norman

[HumanCockroach]

Beat me to it... Weird off-season...

http://sea.247sports.com/Bolt/Panthers- ... n-44923122

[HumanCockroach]

I don't know if anyone is going to pony up the biggest contact for any corner in history with a single good season under his belt. Rumored to be demands of over 19 million a season....

Pretty unrealistic IMHO...

[burrrton]

I don't know if anyone is going to pony up the biggest contact for any corner in history with a single good season under his belt. Rumored to be demands of over 19 million a season....

Pretty unrealistic IMHO...

And while it was an all-pro season, it was just a *good* season, wasn't it?

[HumanCockroach]

I wasn't attempting to undersell his season, just pointing out that with only one season that the Panthers deemed him "starter" worthy, all pro or not, isn't IMHO enough to command 19 million dollars a year. He hasn't been doing it year after year, game after game. Hell Brandon Browner had that type of year his first season, it happens. Norman has weaknesses just like every corner, as with QBs it takes time to assess what those weaknesses are and try to exploit them ( for instance Sherman has issues with under crossing routes when manned up, but is death to vertical fades, as well as medium ranged outs)....

The league will find his greatest weaknesses, whether they can exploit it with the personnel they have is unknown, but they will find them and try regardless.

That all said. I would classify his season as "good, solid and consistent" not "epic" or "great", hence personally I don't see anyone paying him top ten QB money. The sample size is small, and unreliable.

I do feel like Norman HAS to have defensive pressure or a fast receiver will expose his below average speed. He excels in "off" coverage reading the QB and reacting, he does not however excel when that is taken away. He has trouble finding the ball in the air and securing it.If he can track the ball the entire time he is excellent at making a play, however, IF a team gives him that money, they will expect a "shutdown" corner, I don't feel Norman is that ( really honestly I don't feel he's even close. If you can't make plays with your back to the ball consistently, I'm not sure you can be).

[mykc14]

I don't know if anyone is going to pony up the biggest contact for any corner in history with a single good season under his belt. Rumored to be demands of over 19 million a season....

Pretty unrealistic IMHO...

Yeah, I thought that too, but there are still a lot of teams with a lot of cap room that could use an all-pro caliber corner. I don't know about 19 mil but I could see him getting 14 mil/yr (highest paid corner is just over 14).

[Zorn76]

The link here talks about a 15-16 mil per year range...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/15282 ... nchise-tag

Still, this all seems a bit strange. Article mentions Carolina not budging off of 11 mil per, which is a decent chunk of a difference. Just surprised that they decided to end negotiations in April, rather than give it more time. But being adamant about a stance on either side is just that, so no go.

Several teams interested, but I'm not sure he gets the desired amount he's looking for. Even if he does, his impact could be fairly minimal if his new team is mediocre or stinks defensively. Any number of pieces have to already be in place for this to make sense for his next franchise.

Either way, this is a significant loss for the Panthers. They can spend the money elsewhere, but Norman's departure will be felt.

[FolkCrusader]

I think they just came to the conclusion that they have enough good defensive players that they will have to let some of them go anyway. Norman was holding the leverage with the FT at nearly 14 million. The minimum deal would have been at least $14 million + next years tag guaranteed. Probably $30 million+. If you now don't think Norman is that guy, well do what you have to. Trading him now would be awful hard unless you could get someone to give him the deal he wants, no one is going to do that and give you draft stock. Basically it screws both of them at this point, but indecision kills a lot of squirrels. Wouldn't be surprised to see a team friendly long term deal that gets Norman the guaranteed money he wants in exchange for some team friendly years later in the contract.

[burrrton]

I think they just came to the conclusion that they have enough good defensive players that they will have to let some of them go anyway.

Agreed. They're coming off a 15-1 season + SB berth, so it's what we faced after 2013- players on successful teams want to get paid.

CAR is loaded with defensive talent, though, and as I alluded to, I'm not convinced he set himself apart as a 'year in year out all pro' type player. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

[FolkCrusader]

CAR is loaded with defensive talent, though, and as I alluded to, I'm not convinced he set himself apart as a 'year in year out all pro' type player. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

Yeah, I don't think I really watched him close enough to judge either but my generally feeling was a legit number one corner. Which is not small potatoes either.

[mykc14]

Trading him now would be awful hard unless you could get someone to give him the deal he wants, no one is going to do that and give you draft stock. Basically it screws both of them at this point, but indecision kills a lot of squirrels. Wouldn't be surprised to see a team friendly long term deal that gets Norman the guaranteed money he wants in exchange for some team friendly years later in the contract.

I don't know how hard it would have been. Teams are willing to pay a player and give up picks. Look no further then our FO when we traded for harvin. He was in the last year of his deal and mini knew that they were not going to bring him back. His representatives met with us hammered out a deal and then we gave mini a lot of draft capital. This would obviously be a little trickier because Norman would have to sign the F-Tag before he were traded, but it would really surprise me if they couldn't have found a team willing to trade with.

[kalibane]

Norman's had more than one good year BTW. He's just only been getting publicity for one good year. The year before he was a top 5 corner too, the same way Browner went to the Pro-Bowl but everyone watching knew Sherman was the best corner on the team.

[Hawktawk]

Norman seems to be a first class A hole as a person. Who knows how he really is in the locker room with that personality? NFL radio was speculating this morning that there may be something besides football involved for the move to come at this time so abruptly.

[kalibane]

Dude... you cheer every week for Richard Sherman. Is self-awareness officially dead?

[burrrton]

Norman's had more than one good year BTW. He's just only been getting publicity for one good year. The year before he was a top 5 corner too, the same way Browner went to the Pro-Bowl but everyone watching knew Sherman was the best corner on the team.

Good info. Thanks.

[HumanCockroach]

Aaannnndddd it's over.

[jshawaii22]

well, that just raised the bar for CB's @ 15m year / 50m guaranteed.

[HumanCockroach]

Norman's had more than one good year BTW. He's just only been getting publicity for one good year. The year before he was a top 5 corner too, the same way Browner went to the Pro-Bowl but everyone watching knew Sherman was the best corner on the team.

Don't you have to actually be a starter to have a "good year"? A good stretch of games I get, but IMHO if you aren't good enough to start, over some pretty weak players, than you probably can't rank that as a good year or season.

Norman has started for one full season, no more in four years in the league. I understand the Sherman comparison as it was injury that for him on the field ( and not one injury either as both Trufant and WTIII were both in front of him) however, I would have said the same in regards to Sherm after one full season of starting, and to be honest his initial starts came in his rookie year, not four seasons into the league.

No problem with the belief that Norman is an excellent corner ( though I believe you'll see him exposed in Washington without a much improved pass rush for reasons I've expressed) but regardless, he has IMHO had one good season, not worth the top contract in the NFL for corners.

[curmudgeon]

The Redskins under Snyder have repeatedly overpaid for "stars". This deal as well, will result in a never-ending stream of colossal f*up's...........

[RiverDog]

The Redskins under Snyder have repeatedly overpaid for "stars". This deal as well, will result in a never-ending stream of colossal f*up's...........

Can you say "Albert Hanesworth"?

[Zorn76]

LOL, ah...another classic move by Washington.

Wow.

Ridiculous amount guaranteed for him.

[obiken]

I think he is a good not great CB, in DC we are going to find out how good he really is.

[RiverDog]

I think he is a good not great CB, in DC we are going to find out how good he really is.

That we will. The Skins don't have half the defense Carolina had. They were ranked 28th in total team defense last season, and the players that get exposed worst in a bad defense are those that play on an island, and Norman is going to draw the top receiver on everyone's squad.

This signing as about a 10% chance of producing positive results.

[Hawktawk]

Dude... you cheer every week for Richard Sherman. Is self-awareness officially dead?

Dude you really want to compare Sherm with that self aggrandizing jerk?
Sherman is mouthy but hes funny. Other than his famous rant after the 13 NFC title game (warranted as we later learned)hes usually pretty tongue in cheek.
Norman is a nasty punk, Sherman would never have engaged in a 60 minute spectacle like Norman did with Beckham. Sherm actually exchanged jerseys with Beckham following their first meeting.

Either way Norman is the Redskins concern now. We will see how shutdown he really is without that monster front 7 pressuring QB's into mistakes.

[HumanCockroach]

I have to say if I was Norman I probably wouldn't have been as civilised in that circumstance. I would have been head hunting without any doubt in my mind. Just saying. I'm not sure the Beckham game is a good example of his lack of class, is all.

[Hawktawk]

I have to say if I was Norman I probably wouldn't have been as civilised in that circumstance. I would have been head hunting without any doubt in my mind. Just saying. I'm not sure the Beckham game is a good example of his lack of class, is all.

As I recall Beckham had less success vs Sherman than against Norman and yet they had a friendly respectful post game jersey exchange.
Norman and Beckham were committing fouls the entire game and Norman started the cheap shots. Both should have been on the pine before halftime. Maybe it isn't fair to paint Norman with the same brush after that incident , but my greater point is he isn't a 10th of the man Richard Sherman is. Ive never seen Sherman cheap shot anyone ever.

[kalibane]

Don't you have to actually be a starter to have a "good year"? A good stretch of games I get, but IMHO if you aren't good enough to start, over some pretty weak players, than you probably can't rank that as a good year or season.

Norman has started for one full season, no more in four years in the league. I understand the Sherman comparison as it was injury that for him on the field ( and not one injury either as both Trufant and WTIII were both in front of him) however, I would have said the same in regards to Sherm after one full season of starting, and to be honest his initial starts came in his rookie year, not four seasons into the league.

No problem with the belief that Norman is an excellent corner ( though I believe you'll see him exposed in Washington without a much improved pass rush for reasons I've expressed) but regardless, he has IMHO had one good season, not worth the top contract in the NFL for corners.

Top contract is relative. If he, Richard Sherman and Patrick Peterson were all free agents at the same time Norman would not have the top CB contract in the NFL. Him having the top contract is more a function of him signing his contract more recently than any other top 5 corner.

I don't think you can argue with what Norman did when matched up with top WRs of the last two seasons (whether he started the full year or not) for the most part. The only guy who was beating him was Beckham and he was so in Beckham's head that Beckham ended up taking himself out of the game. Norman was already on people's radars coming into this season for people paying attention.

I don't think he's a perfect corner but he was legitimately all team first pro last year, he earned that, just like Sherman earned it in his first full year as a starter. I don't see how people here make the arguments defending Sherman and try to question Norman. He's basically a slightly lesser version of Sherman circa 2012 when you look at measurable, skill set and role in his defense.

If you looked at Sherman in 2012 and thought he was the best corner in the league that year (and he was). You have a fundamental logical deficiency if you turn around and try to run down Norman now.

[kalibane]

Dude you really want to compare Sherm with that self aggrandizing jerk?
Sherman is mouthy but hes funny. Other than his famous rant after the 13 NFC title game (warranted as we later learned)hes usually pretty tongue in cheek.
Norman is a nasty punk, Sherman would never have engaged in a 60 minute spectacle like Norman did with Beckham. Sherm actually exchanged jerseys with Beckham following their first meeting.

Either way Norman is the Redskins concern now. We will see how shutdown he really is without that monster front 7 pressuring QB's into mistakes.

You clearly live in a delusional world. Norman and Sherman are the same type of players. Sherman is constantly giving people extra little shots off the ball when he can get away with it. That's what MOST good defenders do.

The only thing you're correct about is that Beckham had more success against Norman. If the league had built up the Sherman/Beckham showdown the way they did with Norman and Beckham and Beckham came out there trying to be a tough guy the way he did with Norman, Sherman would have more than given it back to him as well.

If you are pro Sherman you shouldn't have a problem with Norman. Instead here you are making every argument that other people made against Sherman. You're a hypocrite dude.

[Hawktawk]

Why is it always about calling names instead of debate? Sherman has NEVER had a game like Norman against Beckham and he seems to have toned it down quite a bit the last couple of years as well. There's a big difference between little shots to knock people off their game and attempting to injure someone.

Whatever kal we see it different. You want to rag on our guy go for it. I wouldn't trade him for 2 of Josh Norman.

[kalibane]

When did Norman try to injure someone? It was the other way around sir. Norman was physical throughout the game but it was Beckham who tried to injure Norman. Norman is almost a carbon copy of Sherman.

And you need to stop with the false equivalencies. I never said I wanted Norman over Sherman. He's probably my favorite player on the team. I'm just honest about who and what Sherman is. Norman is the same type of player and I have no problem with him.

You clearly didn't watch the game and don't know what you're talking about. Beckham was the guy who was completely out of control in that game. It's not name calling to point out that you are a hypocrite for criticizing Norman with the exact same talking points that non-Hawk fans go after Sherman for but then pretend they are completely different.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="kalibane"]When did Norman try to injure someone? It was the other way around sir. Norman was physical throughout the game but it was Beckham who tried to injure Norman. Norman is almost a carbon copy of Sherman.

And you need to stop with the false equivalencies. I never said I wanted Norman over Sherman. He's probably my favorite player on the team. I'm just honest about who and what Sherman is. Norman is the same type of player and I have no problem with him.

You clearly didn't watch the game and don't know what you're talking about. Beckham was the guy who was completely out of control in that game. It's not name calling to point out that you are a hypocrite for criticizing Norman with the exact same talking points that non-Hawk fans go after Sherman for but then pretend they are completely different.[/quoteI

I didn't bring up Sherman AT ALL, you did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And i clearly watched the game in question, over and over. I spent a week on the forum arguing that Norman should have also been suspended, and he was taking plenty of illegal shots, enough to draw multiple personal fouls in the game. WTF game were you watching???!!!

IMO Normans an arrogant Ahole, a punk.
thats all I said and you felt that was worth bringing up Sherman to start an argument and call my a hypocrite.

Identify the game that you say Sherman acted like that.........If not eat crow buddy.

[kalibane]

LOL. Well I guess this is how it goes huh? You just keep repeating something more emphatically hoping that it becomes true. Considering how frustrated you seem to get on a variety of topics while employing this technique, you may want to try something different.

[HumanCockroach]

Sorry, I watched the entire game, I did see Norman retaliate, but personally I've never considered retaliating over a cheap shot dirty.

http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/footbal ... -1.2474839

Beckham has a history of dirty play after the whistle, Norman doesn't. It seems like you are overstating your case here, making Norman some kind of cheap shot artist ( he isn't and never has been) based on a game where a reciever literally attempted to put Norman on a stretcher. Do you have more than simply you didn't like the way he physically played within the rules and how he retaliated against some attempting to end his career?

[Hawktawk]

Jesus what a stupid argument. But if Im getting called out for stating a simple opinion so be it.I said Normans an Ahole. Kal said hes just like Sherman and Im a hypocrite. I disagreed and he accused me of "false equivalency" by refuting his comparison between Sherman and Norman.I referenced a game that Norman played like no game Sherm ever played and I hear that that was a "media creation". Bottom line I think Normans an A hole. Kal thinks hes awesome.Its an opinion,
It doesn't make either of us a hypocrite. But him calling me one as well as delusional etc makes him an Ahole a lot like his Fan boy man crush Josh Norman.To me the fact that the Panthers yanked a fairly reasonable franchise contract 2 weeks before the draft while Seattle made Sherman one of the wealthiest CBs in history when he was in FA speaks volumes. Norman cant even sniff Shermans Jock strap.

Kal is wrong Kal got owned by the facts but like too many people he will never eat his crow.

[HumanCockroach]

I'm not arguing. I asked for an example of his actions. Sorry that was a problem.