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by **burrrton** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:21 pm

Presented without comment:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ru ... ve-nfl-qb/

Disagree at your own risk.

by **HumanCockroach** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:32 pm

Something anyone watching and without bias already know..

by **burrrton** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:09 pm

HumanCockroach wrote:Something anyone watching and without bias already know..

Yeah- pretty tough to take anyone that disagrees with that seriously at this point.

Maybe he slips going forward, but short of that, it's pretty self-evident.

by **RiverDog** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:59 pm

He's in the top 1 if the criteria is Best Quarterback for our team. I wouldn't trade him for anyone, at least not any active quarterback.

BTW, where's Futureite?

by **monkey** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:03 pm

burrrton wrote:Presented without comment:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ru ... ve-nfl-qb/

Disagree at your own risk.

Pretty hard to disagree with any of that actually...I think they nailed it.
I've had my disagreements with that site lately, but that's not one of them.

by **savvyman** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:48 pm

Russell is maybe around 5 or 6th best pure pocket QB.

Russell is the #1 QB with a good separation between #2 as most elusive and capable of generating passing yards with minimal pass protection (or no safe pocket to operate from)

Overall? You could make a case for #1, #2 or #3 best QB. I would place Russell only behind Rogers right now.

by **burrrton** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:38 pm

savvyman wrote:Overall? You could make a case for #1, #2 or #3 best QB. I would place Russell only behind Rogers right now.

Can't disagree, but even then, honestly, if you asked me who'd I'd right now trade straight across for, I'm not even sure Rodgers would make the list. I couldn't make a compelling argument against him, but, as a fan, I've seen enough from RW that I don't think anyone in the league can say they'd hands-down be better than him across all situations.

by **RiverDog** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:12 am

burrrton wrote:Can't disagree, but even then, honestly, if you asked me who'd I'd right now trade straight across for, I'm not even sure Rodgers would make the list. I couldn't make a compelling argument against him, but, as a fan, I've seen enough from RW that I don't think anyone in the league can say they'd hands-down be better than him across all situations.

Rodgers had a pretty bad year last season. I should know, he was on my fantasy team.

Russell didn't have all that stellar of a season last year, at least not through the first 9 games. If you will remember, there were a lot of us on this site that were grumbling about his play, just about everybody except Anthony. Don't get me wrong, he's the best quarterback in the league for our team and I wouldn't trade him straight across for any quarterback, but let's not get carried away and blow a bunch of smoke up his arse and pretend he's some sort of Superman....oops, that's Cam. OK, he's better than Cam the Superman.

by **mykc14** » Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:19 pm

RiverDog wrote:
Rodgers had a pretty bad year last season. I should know, he was on my fantasy team.

If you will remember, there were a lot of us on this site that were grumbling about his play, just about everybody except Anthony.

I know this was far from the biggest point you were trying to make, and believe me I do not really want to get lumped with Anthony, but I wasn't one of those grumbling. I only want to point that out because it was mainly with you that I was debating with. I even think at one point you said I was starting to sound like Anthony (the worst thing anybody has ever said to me on this forum, lol). Anyway, I don't think there is any QB I would trade him for in the league right now and by all accounts he hasn't lost a step in the offseason program so far.

by **RiverDog** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:09 pm

mykc14 wrote:I know this was far from the biggest point you were trying to make, and believe me I do not really want to get lumped with Anthony, but I wasn't one of those grumbling. I only want to point that out because it was mainly with you that I was debating with. I even think at one point you said I was starting to sound like Anthony (the worst thing anybody has ever said to me on this forum, lol). Anyway, I don't think there is any QB I would trade him for in the league right now and by all accounts he hasn't lost a step in the offseason program so far.

I do remember debating you about Russell, and yes, I did poke you a little in saying you were beginning to sound like Anthony, who was about the only one besides you that was not grumbling about Russell. Of course, you weren't anything like Anthony, who was blinded by his total obsession with Russell.

But the fact is that Russell did not by any measure perform well for the most part of the first 9 games. It was hard to see on TV, but when I was in person at the game in Cincinnati and watching from a high vantage point, the game where we blew a 24-7 lead in the 4th quarter, Russell played what was perhaps his worst game since becoming a Hawk. He did not have tons of pressure on him, at least not like he had against the Lions, and he had the benefit of a solid running attack (that was the game where Rawls broke a 60+ yard TD). He had receivers open on short out routes and for one reason or another, wasn't going to them. He couldn't convert several 4th quarter 3rd down attempts that would have put the game away despite multiple chances. Roach had a similar opinion of his play when he saw him at home against Carolina (I believe), another game where we couldn't hold a 4th quarter lead. I can remember posting a really good video of Brock Huard breaking down one of Russell's failure to convert in the red zone vs. the Panthers in a close game.

Even at his worst, I still wouldn't have traded him for anyone in the league. Last year was a good experience for him and I think he's a better quarterback for having gone through that stretch of games. But we can't pretend that it didn't happen.

by **HumanCockroach** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:50 pm

I disagree RD, that first Rams game was hideous, and IMHO the worst from last season might have been the Carolina game ( to be fair I watched him in person from above, didn't obviously see the Cincy game).

I stand by my opinion that he left 200 yards and 3 or 4 TDs on the field that day. Think the 2nd half of the playoff game, but LESS coverage...

by **RiverDog** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:26 pm

HumanCockroach wrote:I disagree RD, that first Rams game was hideous, and IMHO the worst from last season might have been the Carolina game ( to be fair I watched him in person from above, didn't obviously see the Cincy game).

I stand by my opinion that he left 200 yards and 3 or 4 TDs on the field that day. Think the 2nd half of the playoff game, but LESS coverage...

Yea, the Rams game was pretty bad, too. There's several games one could argue that were Russell's worst effort of the '15 season.

My buddy IG was going nuts at the Cincy game, started wondering out loud if Russell's height was a factor in his not being able to see open receivers. There were times when a defender was playing off by 10 yards but Russell wouldn't take advantage of it. I also thought that the red zone INT he was targeting Graham on was poorly thrown, that he didn't make Graham go up the ladder and allow him to take advantage of his height differential and instead threw a shallow floater. That play is what caused me to wonder if Russell knew how to throw to a big receiver of which he hasn't really had many of.

My point wasn't so much to argue which game was his worst, rather that he played poorly... not stinking poorly, but much less than we've come to expect from him, in the first 9 games last year.

by **monkey** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:02 pm

I'm calling it.
Russell Wilson will be the NFL MVP this year.
There, I said it.
I'd call that a bold prediction, but there's nothing even remotely bold about it.

by **c_hawkbob** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:15 pm

monkey wrote:I'm calling it.
Russell Wilson will be the NFL MVP this year.
There, I said it.
I'd call that a bold prediction, but there's nothing even remotely bold about it.

It's notonly bold it's underlined.

by **RiverDog** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:35 pm

One thing that will not get any argument at all anywhere in the nation let alone here in this forum is that if Russell Wilson does win the MVP, he'll handle it with a lot more class than the previous MVP.

by **burrrton** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:37 pm

RiverDog wrote:One thing that will not get any argument at all anywhere in the nation let alone here in this forum is that if Russell Wilson does win the MVP, he'll handle it with a lot more class than the previous MVP.

Verdict: true.

And he won't be talking about his offseason quest to find a new First Down Celebration after deciding not to go after his fumble late in the Superbowl to avoid breaking a nail.

by **RiverDog** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:20 am

burrrton wrote:Verdict: true.

And he won't be talking about his offseason quest to find a new First Down Celebration after deciding not to go after his fumble late in the Superbowl to avoid breaking a nail.

Late in the super bowl and with the outcome still very much in doubt. I'm still astounded about that play and his admission afterwards that he was afraid that he might get hurt. How any teammate or fan can still continue to put their faith in that man is beyond my comprehension.

That's one of the reasons why I love Russell so much, that he's Largentesque in that he only celebrates with his teammates and doesn't perform for the camera, and most of all, if a loose ball is rolling around, he'd be like most of us and jump through the pits of hell in an attempt to recover it.

by **burrrton** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:03 am

and most of all, if a loose ball is rolling around, he'd be like most of us and jump through the pits of hell in an attempt to recover it.

Yup- look no further than that first play against the Niners in the playoffs a couple years ago.

by **monkey** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:33 am

RiverDog wrote: and most of all, if a loose ball is rolling around, he'd be like most of us and jump through the pits of hell in an attempt to recover it.

Actually, he'd do even better than that, he'd race to get the ball, then, with at least five people bearing down on him, he'd have the presence of mind to quickly turn and see where they are, get up with the ball and race away from the defenders, locate an open target, and while on the run, hit the target, for a huge, game changing play not only preventing the turnover, but turning a potential negative, into a giant positive.

by **monkey** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:39 am

BTW since I'm in the mood for predictions, here's another one that's not really all that bold, but is more like a mild sauce prediction.
This year, Doug Baldwin and Tyler Lockett will both have good seasons, putting up good numbers etc..., but in the end, Lockett will have every bit as good, if not the slightly better season, with slightly better numbers, and the argument among Seahawks fans will be, "Did Lockett just surpass Baldwin as our teams best receiver?"
They'll be thought of as like 1A and 1B by most fans, the debate will rage on about which one is 1A.

by **RiverDog** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:00 pm

Nice to have a subject we can all agree on, huh?

by **burrrton** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:31 pm

RiverDog wrote:Nice to have a subject we can all agree on, huh?

We need more traffic so we get those good trolls we can all put on the ground, encircle, and proceed to kick in the teeth, hooligan style.

All rhetorically, of course.

by **Futureite** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:34 pm

RiverDog wrote:He's in the top 1 if the criteria is Best Quarterback for our team. I wouldn't trade him for anyone, at least not any active quarterback.

BTW, where's Futureite?

Yes, I'd agree Russell Wilson is a top 5 QB, with no qualifiers. He really proved himself last yr, putting up monster stats without Lynch and at times with his D failing him. So, by my own critera and to be consistent, I'd put him in the top 5 easy.

I stopped posting because it got too intense. Just wanted to step back a little. This is Hawk Zone central and I am a superfan as well, so we were bound to do nothing but argue.

And, with Chip running his circus style O I have a max of 6 Ws to look forward to LOL. So, all I could really do at this point is agree with the Niner bashing.

by **burrrton** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:46 pm

o, all I could really do at this point is agree with the Niner bashing.

You're gonna have to find something more sporting- there's no fun in bashing the Noners anymore...

by **NorthHawk** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:02 am

Being a contrarian at heart, I welcome well thought out opposing points of view. Someone outside looking in can provide some good insight upon occasion.
As a fan, though, all of us sometimes go too far in defending our position and I expect Future isn't an exception, but I generally welcome a different take on subjects.

by **burrrton** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:28 am

I especially look forward to the results of The Eye Test...

by **HumanCockroach** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:54 pm

Gone are the days of irrational claims of Wilson needing a "gimmick" offense( play action or read option) eye test analysis. ( interestingly enough that was NEVER a necessity element as Wilson has been BETTER every single year WITHOUT play action, every year.)

Here an interesting article that points out that last season he wasn't just "better without play action" ( though he was still on par with the rest of the NFL in that regard) but in fact better than anyone else in the league, period.

http://sea.247sports.com/Bolt/ESPN-Seat ... ntent=Link

by **RiverDog** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:33 pm

Futureite wrote:Yes, I'd agree Russell Wilson is a top 5 QB, with no qualifiers. He really proved himself last yr, putting up monster stats without Lynch and at times with his D failing him. So, by my own critera and to be consistent, I'd put him in the top 5 easy.

I stopped posting because it got too intense. Just wanted to step back a little. This is Hawk Zone central and I am a superfan as well, so we were bound to do nothing but argue.

And, with Chip running his circus style O I have a max of 6 Ws to look forward to LOL. So, all I could really do at this point is agree with the Niner bashing.

Nice to see you again, Futureite!

But the Niner bashing is a thing of the past. Hairball is at UM, Kaepernick crashed and burned and is no longer in the young guns discussion, Aldon Smith isn't with the team anymore, and the Niners, true to all of my fellow Shack Up's predictions, tumbled to last place in the division. Now that the Rams are back in LA, we have a new California team to bash. The Niners are truly an afterthought nowadays.

by **obiken** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:41 am

RiverDog wrote:He's in the top 1 if the criteria is Best Quarterback for our team. I wouldn't trade him for anyone, at least not any active quarterback.

BTW, where's Futureite?

BTW where is Phili 51? Tailgaitor? Global? I miss those guys River, in a twisted sort of way!!

by **RiverDog** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:40 pm

obiken wrote:BTW where is Phili 51? Tailgaitor? Global? I miss those guys River, in a twisted sort of way!!

There is no love lost between me an Tailgater, obi, and Phili was strange, to put it mildly. But I do miss Global.

And let's not forget our more eccentric posters in Normey and Political Football. Plus then there's Rottweiler. Like I said before, we could have a huge thread on MIA posters between here and the old PI forums.

by **c_hawkbob** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:42 pm

Star, SOE and Pabst would be welcome blasts from the past as well.

by **burrrton** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:22 pm

You guys miss Normey?? I always just wondered if he was ill. Hoped he was alright.

by **obiken** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:21 pm

There is no love lost between me an Tailgater, obi, and Phili was strange, to put it mildly. But I do miss Global.

And let's not forget our more eccentric posters in Normey and Political Football. Plus then there's Rottweiler. Like I said before, we could have a huge thread on MIA posters between here and the old PI forums.

I was being fascias on the first as you know. Your right I miss a lot of them though. SOE, Raven Hawk, etc etc.

by **mykc14** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:26 pm

HumanCockroach wrote:Gone are the days of irrational claims of Wilson needing a "gimmick" offense( play action or read option) eye test analysis. ( interestingly enough that was NEVER a necessity element as Wilson has been BETTER every single year WITHOUT play action, every year.)

Here an interesting article that points out that last season he wasn't just "better without play action" ( though he was still on par with the rest of the NFL in that regard) but in fact better than anyone else in the league, period.

http://sea.247sports.com/Bolt/ESPN-Seat ... ntent=Link

RW is a stud and by all accounts has been on fire during the offseason program, i can't wait to see him play next season. I look for a blend of the quick passing game we saw at the end of last season and the run focused offense we have been accustomed too. over the last 7 games of the season RW's numbers equate to about 53 TDs to 2 picks, crazy... I don't see that actually happening but 35-40 TDs with 10 or less picks seems reasonable, which would be great numbers!

by **RiverDog** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:36 am

burrrton wrote:You guys miss Normey?? I always just wondered if he was ill. Hoped he was alright.

I got a kick out of Normey. Watching him butcher the English language like Archie Bunker used to always made me laugh. What name was it that he used to call Lofa Tatupu?

by **burrrton** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:27 am

RiverDog wrote:What name was it that he used to call Lofa Tatupu?

Heh- I don't remember that, or much else about him really except that he seemed to project his own shortcomings onto every player he didn't like ("He false starts a lot, a classic sign of alcoholism and spousal abuse...", etc).

by **c_hawkbob** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:17 am

Tofu.

by **RiverDog** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:27 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:Tofu.

Yes! Thank you for dusting off some cobwebs. Your memory is better than mine.

A lot of people really get pissed off at other, shall we say eccentric, posters such as Normey. But I actually enjoyed debating them. It was like shooting fish in a barrel. The only poster that genuinely got to me was CP Returns.

by **obiken** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:48 pm

Oh as you know with me it was Tail, he could really get under my skin. The problem is there was a certain element of truth in what he said. We finally won a RB, but never did get a National Title.
I really wanted one for Marcus.

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