Bennett is asking athletes to promote social change

[HumanCockroach]

Sometimes my black life matters.

It mattered the day I was walking to my car at Lenox when I was ordered inside a police car until I sufficiently explained my purpose for being in the deck. My keys in hand provided no clue. It mattered the very next time I was in the deck and again ordered inside a police car until I again sufficiently explained my purpose.

My black life mattered the day I was helping someone move her furniture from her apartment to a moving van when several police officers pointed their guns at me until I sufficiently explained my purpose. Carrying a microwave to a moving van provided no clue.

My black life mattered the day I was looking through storefront windows and police detained me and questioned me until I sufficiently explained my purpose. It mattered further when I reached into my pocket for my wallet and they pulled their guns on me. My black life almost became matter on the pavement.

My black life mattered the day I was ordered inside a room at the DeKalb county courthouse and forced to explain my purpose. Being a lawyer wearing a suit in a courthouse provided no clue.

My black life mattered the night I was jogging in my Johns Creek subdivision when a police officer drove 5 mph and followed me for nearly a half mile until I finally and exasperatedly turned around and yelled, “What?!?!” My Nike shorts, shirt and running shoes provided no clue of my lawful presence. After all, I was running.

I never really thought of myself as a thug. I’m clean cut. Clean-shaven. No dreads. No golds. No tats. No sagging pants. Hell, I even own a pair of khakis.

But what do I know. Maybe I AM a thug. I graduated college but it took me 5 years. I graduated law school but I wasn’t top ten. I served 3 terms in the state House of Representatives but I never got more than 60% of the vote. I served 9 years as a judge but does Probate court really count? I’ve appeared on news shows as an expert on political and legal matters but my tie didn’t always quite match.

Or just maybe my skin is the sin and no accomplishment vaccine can inoculate me.

Sometimes I wish I could try on white skin. Not to keep; just to test drive for a few days. But moreso, I wish my white friends who condemn the black lives matter mantra could wear my skin. They’d probably cut the test drive short. They’d know what it feels like to be routinely viewed as a suspect instead of a person. They’d learn that black lives do indeed matter.

But oftentimes, for all the wrong reasons.~ Arnold regis

Trial Lawyer, former judge and politician..

Sums it up pretty nicely. Most assuredly not an "F-up" by any stretch of the imagination. Wrong skin color, wrong location.

[c_hawkbob]

Who said it's a "rule"? I said it's ANNOYING.
I have said repeatedly that I don't like it when people politicize otherwise politically neutral events, no matter which side of the aisle they are on.
I also questioned, (that's NOT the same thing as saying there is a rule about it) the appropriateness of it during a Seattle Seahawks/NFL sanctioned press conference, and I pointed out that if the NFL or the Seahawks wanted to, they could tell him to stop.
People tried to say that it's a first amendment thing, to which I pointed out that, no, it is NOT. It's a work place thing.
Again, I never said that I know of a "rule" against it, I said it's annoying.
Is that clear now?

You didn't mention the word rule but were absolutely emphatic about telling everyone that mention the player right to say what they wanted the they did NOT have the right! (capitalized and exlamation points and all) because the were NFL employees in an NFL facility. You weren't saying you wished they wouldn't or that you thought they shouldn't, you were saying they did not have the right to. I was just asking for clarification.

[monkey]

OK, let me try to clarify once more, apparently I'm not being clear enough.
When I said with exclamation marks, that no one has the right to say anything they want, I am specifically talking about, the workplace. Nobody can just say whatever they want in the workplace, at least not without fear of repercussions.
No, the US Government won't tell anyone to stop talking, they cannot, because we have a first amendment right to say what we like, without fear of Government reprisals (or at least in theory we're supposed to...not sure that's really true anymore actually, but that's a whole other debate), but if I start offending people with my views at work, no matter how important I feel my views are, I can possibly lose my job. That's just the reality of it.
I doubt very much that the NFL has the guts to (or even necessarily wants to), tell Bennett to stop. Certainly not in today's political climate. But if they wanted to, they are well within their rights to do so.

Again though, none of that is why I brought all this up. I'm not trying to debate the right or wrong of it, I'm not trying to tell people what to think about Black Lives Matter, I'm not taking sides for or against Bennett or the cops, or BLM, or the protesters, or anyone...I'm just saying that it really annoys me that people use politically neutral events, to bring in politics, and technically, Bennett does NOT have the right to, if the NFL wants it stopped. The NFL is currently allowing it, because they don't want the fallout that would occur if they told Bennett to stop, (which I completely understand), but I am well within my rights to say that, I find it annoying!
And again, I find it annoying when people on EITHER SIDE of the political aisle do it, and I find it equally as annoying when actors do it. I'm not discriminating here, because in truth I have a great deal of sympathy for the BLM crowd, who is so tired of not feeling like they have equal justice and an equal voice, that they are at a breaking point. I may not agree with their tactics (I don't), but I understand their level of frustration.
I just find it annoying when athletes or actors, (or whoever) uses the mic that is shoved in their face for reasons which have nothing to do with the topic they want to rant about, use that opportunity to get political.
Bennett's politics are not why he's in the public eye, his ability to play a game at a high level is. I want to hear about that thing he actually knows more about than I do, which is football.
If I want to hear someone talk about "social change", I'll have no trouble finding expert sources who can do just that.

[RiverDog]

I think everybody has an F up in their family ( or at least enough to be a moot point) many people understand the vicious cycle that ensues, but many refuse to acknowledge that cycle... One of the things that is often glossed over its that sometimes, the only thing that it takes to be considered that is your financial status, physical address or color of your skin ( which is IMHO exactly what we are talking about). No one is claiming that that cycle doesn't exist outside of blacks, however, it's insane to think the percentages of blacks caught inn that cycle is do solely to them committing crimes ( which is honestly just another way of discrimination on the part of those refusing to acknowledge the vast disparity in jailing, sentencing and deaths of black people).

People that follow the law but have minor issues ( like a taillight out, full disclosure, following instructions of the officer simply because they were in a nice neighborhood and happen to have a darker pigment.. Or are selling cigarettes illegally, or are on the ground, or are shot in the back after a routine traffic stop etc) no matter WHAT those previous infractions are, do NOT deserve to be gunned down. That is not how enforcing the law is supposed to work, and it absolutely surprises me that today there are still those refusing to acknowledge that...

It IS supposed to be the same rules for everyone, it's doubtful that you RD would be ok with your stepson being shot because he had a taillight out ( regardless of former criminal history) which is EXACTLY why BLM exists. This isn't one issue, or a few issues, or a couple bad cops, this is a HISTORY of these types of instances, that span decades. Just because it now is being blasted out via social media doesn't make it "new", which is why the insistence that there is no profiling, racism, etc in the police department is not just laughable, but dangerous.

This isn't to say I don't respect, acknowledge and love police officers. I absolutely do, 99% of them absolutely try to do their jobs ( difficult, dangerous and thankless jobs), that said, pretending like they don't have ingrained training, human responses, and personal biases is ridiculous. They do, just like the rest of us.

Nice post, HC. I haven't objected to the BLM stuff. It had to be said and brought to the forefront. And you're right about it not being a new phenomenon. It's been going on for decades and has only come to light in this age of cheap video recording devices and the social media. This stuff used to get swept under the carpet. I don't deny that race may have played a role in some, but not all, of these incidents. I also read your following post. As a white man, it's incomprehensible for me to understand what being black must be like, and I'm not going to pretend to know.

But it's time to change gears. We all know what the issues are. As I said earlier, it's time to start looking for solutions, and that starts with an honest discussion as to the root causes of these incidents. And we need to quit beating up on the police. One of the possible solutions would be to widen the pool of available candidates for police jobs, which would increase diversity and allow for the screening out of undesirable candidates, and under the current conditions, I don't know who in the hell would ever want to become a cop.

Oh, and burrton, thanks for your condolences. The boy was my wife's only child, and as you can imagine, it was a pretty tough time. We would have spread his ashes last year, but the campground he had made a comment about wanting to be at was closed due to the wildfires in the northern part of the state. We leave this Saturday, so no posting from me from then until Tuesday or so.

[Hawktawk]

Lets at least get the facts straight. I will readily acknowledge there are bad shoots and police harassment. I've experienced that as a white guy. I had a buddy who was an NCAA heavyweight wrestler who was arrested for a bar fight. He resisted and got jumped on by 12 cops who beat him within an inch of his life. When it happens with a black man perhaps that would have been an shooting. I dont know.

But lets examine the highly sensationalized politicized shoots and deaths in custody we have seen lead to BLM. Trayvon Martin, shot by what was described in the media as a 'white Hispanic who was actually a Hispanic hispanic. Trayvon jumped a guy he didn't know and was doing the ground and pound. Acquittal although Zimmermans life is ruined and he has gone off the rails.

The biggie Big Mike Brown the teddy bear. Commits a strong arm robbery, walks down the center of the road,. Assaults a police officer who by all accounts was a good cop and a good guy. Punches him in the face and goes for his gun. The weapon discharges and strikes him in the finger, a critical piece of forensic showing his hand was within inches of the gun. He then refuses orders to get on the ground and instead charges the cop who retreats and eventually shoots him.Dorian Johnson was the only one who said he had his hands up.Numerous black witnesses confirmed officer Wilson's account. Hands up dont shoot chanted over and over is A LIE. Eric Holder attended his funeral which was officiated by Al Sharpton. Wilson was completely exonerated even though Obummer sent the DOJ to gin up something.

Eric Garner, career petty criminal ripping off store owners by ILLEGALLY selling Cigarrettes in front of their door without investing in property tax, paying tax, insurance, employees etc. Why the F**k should that ever be decriminalized? Either we have laws or not. When they are on the books we obey or get arrested.As I said he was merely subdued. The illegal choke hold was just bullshit. The guy was in horrible health but when you are 6'7" 350 and FK with a cop they arent going to play patty cake with you nor should they. He would be alive today if he were A obeying the law and or B not resisting. All cops acquitted, actually grand jury declined to prosecute.

Freddie Gray died of a neck injury suffered in the back of a police van. It was his 18th arrest and he was seen dragging his feet and resisting on the way to the van. The cops were charged with murder within days. The town was burnt to the ground with the permission of the Black female prosecuting attorney and mayor. 3 acquittals, rest of charges dropped by said black female prosecutor.

Alton Sterling should have been doing life already his rap sheet was so long. He was reported for pointing a gun at a man leading to the contact even though as a felon he was not allowed to have a firearm. He violently resisted arrest. The officers got him on the ground but could not secure his right arm. The officer can be heard repeatedly telling him not to move but he was still flailing the right arm on the shock snuff video. Ask Trayvon if a man pinned on his back can get off a shot. A gun was recovered from his right front pocket.

Castille in Minnesota seems like a tragedy but again it wasn't what the mainstream media and Facebook girlfriend said it was. He was a suspect in an armed robbery, not a guy with a tallight out. He did not have a concealed carry permit. The barrel of the gun is visible in his lap as she films. Police stated that "he was not following orders and the officer responded to the presence of a weapon" So we will see about that one.

The one in Miami looks like a ridiculously bad shoot on the surface. But lets remember 10 police officers had been killed and several more wounded that week, Officers were responding to a report of a gun as well and a subject who they had no way of knowing was autistic.
We could go on forever. The kid in Chicago hopped up on drugs brandishing a knife, flattening police car tires and refusing all officer commands over a period of minutes. He wheels towards the officer within the 20' danger zone for a knife attack and received his Darwin.

Of course there are bad shoots. Yes there are criminal cops, racist cops. I just have a hard time taking BLM seriously when they use these examples as supposed racism or police brutality.

[HumanCockroach]

Did you just really use a therapist on the ground with his hands in the air, who has explained the situation, being shot at 3 times, hit once, and then handcuffed while he bled, who according to the police, was the person the officer feared was in danger ( despite the man explaining exactly who he was, who the patient was, and what he had in his hands) as an example?

Also, with an example of an elementary school employee with no record, who gave the police full disclosure of having a firearm, legally in the car, being told to provide license and registration, and then being shot at point blank range because he was a "suspect" ( ie. He was black inn a nice neighborhood, without a working taillight) there was no trail of him specifically being a suspect, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Justifying this is ridiculous...

No matter the length of their rap sheets, the ONLY justifiable shooting is one in which police officers feel threatened or feel public safety is. That is WHY there is judges, jail and lawyers. Claiming someone deserves to die because they are big, have a rapsheet or are resisting is an all encompassing death sentence is stupid, claiming someone is justifiably shot because some cops in another state where killed, is ludicrous.

I'm not a lawyer, but I am 100% confident that the penalty for being any of those things listed isn't death.

[RiverDog]

Yea, and it's pretty hard to defend the shooting in the back in broad daylight of an unarmed black suspect that had turned and ran as he was about to be arrested. No way in hell can anyone rationalize that incident. I can somewhat defend the cops in some of these incidents as perhaps feeling that their own personal safety was at risk or that there might have been imminent danger to the public, but not that one. Same goes for the rough ride in Baltimore.

[HumanCockroach]

To be clear, I'm not saying that there are no justifiable shootings, just that anyone thinking that a life of petty crime should be grounds for lethal force is way, way, WAY off the mark.... Even a life of violent crime doesn't carry that sentence, at least without due process. That is the stuff of monarchs and one of the founding principals of this country.

I can honestly say there have been times where I haven't followed the instructions of officers ( due to either not understanding them, panicking, or simply not being capable off doing what they have told me to... Ie being pulled over and told to roll down my window, which was electric and not working etc) I can honestly say I never feared for my life, but the truth is, I'm not sure if I wasn't white, or had a rapsheet, or was in the wrong place at the wrong time I wouldn't have....

Only had a police officer pull his revolver once my entire life on me ( speeding in Montana) and even that I found excessive, can't imagine what it would be like to have it happen regularly.

[HumanCockroach]

Out of curiosity where's the second thread about Sherman?

http://www.seahawks.com/news/2016/08/03 ... 32433078=1

[burrrton]

No way in hell can anyone rationalize that incident.

Agreed. So name one prominent person who *is* trying to rationalize it. It (apparently) is one of those incidents where a cop used bad judgement, and I have a feeling will be paying a very heavy price for it, as he (again, apparently) should.

The bigger point, though, is that bad judgement by cops is not limited to their interactions with black people, and too many situations where reasonable judgement was used is blown up into an outrage now. See here for the latest pitch perfect example:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... a9761451aa

Black woman gets shot and everybody sh*ts the bed, as if white people with arrest warrants pointing shotguns at police and threatening the shoot them is reacted to with a note on the door.

And if you want to see why so many people have no idea most of their "outrages" are actually reasonable, read this fcking article from Reuters:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-p ... SKCN10D2AC

"Many U.S. cities have approved or expanded the use of body cameras since August 2014, when a white police officer fatally shot an unarmed black teenager in Ferguson, Missouri."

An unarmed black teenager?? He was a robbery suspect who attacked a cop.

J-school dumbfcks writing articles like this is why we can't have nice things in this country right now.

[obiken]

I hate going political, but No lives matter until black lives start mattering. The criminal justice in America is clearly not working for Black people. With social media its been shown that its not the whiny black, but us whites that have been living in the alternate reality. IF Walter Scott's killer in SC is let off, and Trump is elected, its on, we will have a 2nd Civil War in America. Bennett is trying to stop that. Burry can argue all day long about the right of celebrity to have the microphone. Sorry Lady Gaga, got don't ask don't tell expanded. They matter, whether they should, or how much, is moot discussion.

[RiverDog]

Agreed. So name one prominent person who *is* trying to rationalize it. It (apparently) is one of those incidents where a cop used bad judgement, and I have a feeling will be paying a very heavy price for it, as he (again, apparently) should.

I didn't say that anyone was trying to rationalize it. The reason I pointed it out the SC shooting, along with the "rough ride" in Baltimore, is that seemed to me that Hawktalk was cherry picking and not including instances when police were CLEARLY in the wrong.

But I do want to point out that I have mentioned in earlier comments that these two incidents also involved misconduct by black police officers as well, so I don't think this is always 100% about race.

BTW I think you are trivializing the shooting in the back in broad daylight of an unarmed suspect by characterizing it as "bad judgment." It's nothing less than murder. I might be persuaded to back off a Murder 1 charge depending on the defense argument, but this cop's actions would be tough to justify even if he were a soldier in a war zone.

[HumanCockroach]

I hate going political, but No lives matter until black lives start mattering. The criminal justice in America is clearly not working for Black people. With social media its been shown that its not the whiny black, but us whites that have been living in the alternate reality. IF Walter Scott's killer in SC is let off, and Trump is elected, its on, we will have a 2nd Civil War in America. Bennett is trying to stop that. Burry can argue all day long about the right of celebrity to have the microphone. Sorry Lady Gaga, got don't ask don't tell expanded. They matter, whether they should, or how much, is moot discussion.

Some don't want their personal bubbles burst.... Far easier to ignore the decades of disproportionate percentage, sentence length, officer involved shootings, racial profiling, etc... Then to look around outside your comfort zone... Same kind of folks that see no wage, and income issues, lap up whatever statistics support their positions, while ignoring or dismissing all the other statistics... Far easier to say "lazy" or "free loader", " criminal" etc than actually acknowledge that the system in place is either corrupt or failing. If they admit that, then the cards with which their lives are built might ALL crumble.

Truth is, I CAN understand that feeling, we ALL want security, happiness, and progress in our lives, it's just unfortunate that some don't see any issues with doing so at others expence...

[RiverDog]

I hate going political, but No lives matter until black lives start mattering. The criminal justice in America is clearly not working for Black people. With social media its been shown that its not the whiny black, but us whites that have been living in the alternate reality. IF Walter Scott's killer in SC is let off, and Trump is elected, its on, we will have a 2nd Civil War in America. Bennett is trying to stop that. Burry can argue all day long about the right of celebrity to have the microphone. Sorry Lady Gaga, got don't ask don't tell expanded. They matter, whether they should, or how much, is moot discussion.

If the criminal justice system isn't working for blacks, then blacks should....in the words of the Dallas Chief of Police who happens to be black....."get out of the protest lines and get their butts down to the recruiting station."

We don't need anymore protests, demonstrations, athletes speaking out, blah blah blah. It's been thoroughly and completely vetted and we've reached a point where it's becoming counter productive by making police work an undesirable occupation. It's time to start getting to the root cause of these incidents and start doing something about not only these incidents, but crime and violence as a whole. Honor those that were killed by turning it into something positive and change the criminal justice system from within.

[HumanCockroach]

That "bubble" exists in other places, one of them happens to be here as well... ^^^

Absolutely agree with the premise, though not entirely convinced it's as simple as you're thinking it is... Not sure if all the states are like Washington, but according to a King County sheriff I spoke with when my son showed interest, a 4 year degree at a regular college ( though he was clear this didn't have to be a four year university) followed by two years at the academy is pretty much a pre requisite... Something that certainly doesn't lend itself to lower income citizens, nor does having a record ( even just dumb kid mistakes) increase your chances, which certainly doesn't help black inner city youths who regardless of certain people's beliefs are indeed disproportionately arrested...

I'm not in the least implying that the "shouldn't" attempt to remedy it by becoming directly involved and seek out change from within the department, just that it may not be as cut and dried as " get your butt in a recruiting station"..

[burrrton]

BTW I think you are trivializing the shooting in the back in broad daylight of an unarmed suspect by characterizing it as "bad judgment." It's nothing less than murder.

I have absolutely *zero* problem going straight to "murder" once I know the full circumstances and it's warranted (and I've done so a few times just in this thread). I wish some people wouldn't go straight to "murder" before they know jack sht, and I wish the same people would give up on "murder" once it's obvious it's anything but.

See my linked example for the typical moron who won't.

I agree, though- I haven't seen anything yet that warrants that jackass firing on that poor guy, and I'm betting he ends up the same way another cop you described earlier will (demonstrating the system works): life in prison.

We don't need anymore protests, demonstrations, athletes speaking out, blah blah blah. It's been thoroughly and completely vetted and we've reached a point where it's becoming counter productive by making police work an undesirable occupation. It's time to start getting to the root cause of these incidents and start doing something about not only these incidents, but crime and violence as a whole. Honor those that were killed by turning it into something positive and change the criminal justice system from within.

Ur Racist™.

[burrrton]

I hate going political, but No lives matter until black lives start mattering.

Who told you black live don't matter?

Your statement relies on the premise that someone of prominence doesn't give a sht about black people. Who is that?

[RiverDog]

That "bubble" exists in other places, one of them happens to be here as well... ^^^

Absolutely agree with the premise, though not entirely convinced it's as simple as you're thinking it is... Not sure if all the states are like Washington, but according to a King County sheriff I spoke with when my son showed interest, a 4 year degree at a regular college ( though he was clear this didn't have to be a four year university) followed by two years at the academy is pretty much a pre requisite... Something that certainly doesn't lend itself to lower income citizens, nor does having a record ( even just dumb kid mistakes) increase your chances, which certainly doesn't help black inner city youths who regardless of certain people's beliefs are indeed disproportionately arrested...

I'm not in the least implying that the "shouldn't" attempt to remedy it by becoming directly involved and seek out change from within the department, just that it may not be as cut and dried as " get your butt in a recruiting station"..

The "get your butt to a recruiting station" weren't my words (or at least as close as I can recall them), it was the Dallas Chief of Police.

And while it is not easy, it does not take a 4 year degree to get a start in the profession:


Police Officer Education and Degree Requirements

Education Requirements

Police officer education requirements range from a high school diploma to a college degree. The minimum requirement is usually a high school diploma, although an increasing number of police departments require applicants to complete at least one or two years of college coursework or have an associate’s degree. A bachelor’s degree is the minimum requirement for federal police jobs. In urban police departments and federal agencies, knowing how to speak a foreign language is considered a plus.

http://www.collegequest.com/how-to-beco ... ficer.aspx

Besides, there's other ways one can contribute without wearing a blue uniform. Every major city in the country, including mine here in the little ole Tri Cities, has police sponsored volunteer programs whose goal is to improve relations between the department and its citizens.

[burrrton]

The *median* is $54K. Wow. Why anyone would put up with what they have to put up with for that, I have no idea. Hope the benefits are spectacular, boys and girls.

[RiverDog]

The *median* is $54K. Wow. Why anyone would put up with what they have to put up with for that, I have no idea. Hope the benefits are spectacular, boys and girls.

I didn't edit that out to hide it, just shortened it to reply to HC's post pertaining to educational requirements. But being a public employee, they do have damn good benefits, better than mine by a longshot.

The relatively low pay just highlights why we need to quit beating up on the cops. With all that's happened in the past year or so, who on Earth would anyone want to become a cop? We need a wider pool of applicants if we are to screen out undesirable characteristics.

[burrrton]

I didn't edit that out to hide it, just shortened it to reply to HC's post pertaining to educational requirements.

I didn't mean that accusatorily- I just found it remarkable. I knew it wasn't much- I just didn't think it was that low.

Yeah, we do need a wider pool of applicants, and an easy and useful place to start would be J-school sh*theads not characterizing something like Ferguson as "a white cop shooting an unarmed black teenager". That should be prosecutable- it's either criminally negligent or meant to do nothing more than incite.

Positively enraging.

[obiken]

Some don't want their personal bubbles burst.... Far easier to ignore the decades of disproportionate percentage, sentence length, officer involved shootings, racial profiling, etc... Then to look around outside your comfort zone... Same kind of folks that see no wage, and income issues, lap up whatever statistics support their positions, while ignoring or dismissing all the other statistics... Far easier to say "lazy" or "free loader", " criminal" etc than actually acknowledge that the system in place is either corrupt or failing. If they admit that, then the cards with which their lives are built might ALL crumble.

Truth is, I CAN understand that feeling, we ALL want security, happiness, and progress in our lives, it's just unfortunate that some don't see any issues with doing so at others expence...

No question Burry, I am always willing to have my bubble burst, especially on my negative view on our OL!!

[HumanCockroach]

I didn't claim it was a "requirement" I said the king county sheriff said it was pretty much a pre requisite... Meaning that as it was explained to me by someone who was actually in the department, that the academy ( just like any other job) screens applicants, and accepts or denies applicants based on "qualifications" they deem desirable ( much like a University... WSU minimum GPA last I checked was a 2.8, though I'm fairly confident they take the higher GPA's first... Being a minimum, doesn't mean automatic acceptance)...

The officer also recommended getting that degree in any other are than law.. Be it English, psychology or fricken knitting.

I'm not claiming applicants with a HS diploma can't become an officer, I'm merely relaying the information I was told, that being, you'll be lucky as hell to be accepted without a college diploma of some kind...

If you investigate further you'll find even more hurdles ( including bills being paid on time, no misdemeanors the last three years, no multiple driving infractions etc) none of which lends itself to many just signing up...

( edit: I'm sorry if you felt I was attributing that statement to you, that wasn't my intent).

[RiverDog]

I didn't claim it was a "requirement" I said the king county sheriff said it was pretty much a pre requisite... Meaning that as it was explained to me by someone who was actually in the department, that the academy ( just like any other job) screens applicants, and accepts or denies applicants based on "qualifications" they deem desirable ( much like a University... WSU minimum GPA last I checked was a 2.8, though I'm fairly confident they take the higher GPA's first... Being a minimum, doesn't mean automatic acceptance)...

The officer also recommended getting that degree in any other are than law.. Be it English, psychology or fricken knitting.

I'm not claiming applicants with a HS diploma can't become an officer, I'm merely relaying the information I was told, that being, you'll be lucky as hell to be accepted without a college diploma of some kind...

If you investigate further you'll find even more hurdles ( including bills being paid on time, no misdemeanors the last three years, no multiple driving infractions etc) none of which lends itself to many just signing up...

( edit: I'm sorry if you felt I was attributing that statement to you, that wasn't my intent).

I wasn't trying to refute what you said re: prerequisites for cops. Your response got me to looking as I know cops that have not completed a 4 year bachelor of arts degree that have been hired onto the force in recent years. A state trooper I once knew (haven't seen him in 10 years) got an AA degree, was accepted into a training academy, hired on as a deputy sheriff before being hired by the WSP. 4 years of college isn't necessarily required, and as the link I provided goes on to say, it varies from department to department. And yes, in most cases, they have to undergo a pretty thorough background check and drug screen. Any felony or DUI conviction is an automatic disqualification, and as you indicated, paying bills on time and being financially stable, gambling habits, etc, while not necessarily a deal breaker, is used to identify those that may be subject to being bribed. One of the possible solutions to this mess is to improve on background checks on cops and screen out the Officer Tackleberry's if their research shows that the cops involved could have been identified as being unfit prior to hiring, but it's kinda hard to do that when there is pressure on departments to hire more cops at the same time that there's a downturn in qualified applicants, which leads into my main point.

The larger point I was trying to make was that continuing to add voices to this constant drone of protest with anyone and everyone with access to a microphone speaking out for social change or whatever can do only so much good before it becomes counter productive by discouraging good, qualified candidates including minorities, women, etc, people that if they do meet the criteria will also have a lot of other career options, from becoming cops. It's time for cooler heads to prevail by analyzing these incidents to figure out what went wrong, make any necessary changes, and move on.

[HumanCockroach]

I absolutely agree with the premise, I really was just attempting to highlight that there are a lot of hurdles ( rightfully so IMHO) that aren't conducive to a lot of those protesting being able to effect change from the inside ( and that's ignoring all the physical criteria that are in some cases insanely difficult for many of those protesting ~ or quite honestly, anyone, including my son who was a three year Letterman in football~ to meet).

It was more in response to the captain's statement.. Strikes me as similar to " you don't like that botched surgery, get into med school then"... I understand the premise, and the feeling, just know it's not as simple as just showing up...

[RiverDog]

I absolutely agree with the premise, I really was just attempting to highlight that there are a lot of hurdles ( rightfully so IMHO) that aren't conducive to a lot of those protesting being able to effect change from the inside ( and that's ignoring all the physical criteria that are in some cases insanely difficult for many of those protesting ~ or quite honestly, anyone, including my son who was a three year Letterman in football~ to meet).

It was more in response to the captain's statement.. Strikes me as similar to " you don't like that botched surgery, get into med school then"... I understand the premise, and the feeling, just know it's not as simple as just showing up...

The point wasn't so much to take the chief's words literally. The point was to do something other than b****.

And you're right, there are a lot of hurdles to becoming a cop, and rightfully so. Probably not enough hurdles IMO.

[obiken]

The problem is River, that Corrections is becoming more like police work, and Police is becoming more like Social work. The #1 weapon of either one is their brain.

[c_hawkbob]

The problem is River, that Corrections is becoming more like police work, and Police is becoming more like Social work. The #1 weapon of either one is their brain.

When done properly Police work has always been Social work. Beat Cops, "Flat Foots" were (are still in some areas) the perfect example; the spent their days/nights out in the neighborhoods walking among society. Can't get more "social" than that.

[obiken]

I agree 100%

[RiverDog]

When done properly Police work has always been Social work. Beat Cops, "Flat Foots" were (are still in some areas) the perfect example; the spent their days/nights out in the neighborhoods walking among society. Can't get more "social" than that.

Yessiree. It was a mistake to give every cop a cruiser and assign him more territory. We need the flatfoots, the beat cops that interacted with the neighborhood and could see problems as they developed. Nowadays, police departments are more reactionary than they are proactive.

[c_hawkbob]

Yessiree. It was a mistake to give every cop a cruiser and assign him more territory. We need the flatfoots, the beat cops that interacted with the neighborhood and could see problems as they developed. Nowadays, police departments are more reactionary than they are proactive.

Zactly!, should have at least 10 flatfoot and 5 bicycle cops for every cruiser.

[RiverDog]

Zactly!, should have at least 10 flatfoot and 5 bicycle cops for every cruiser.

If you've ever been to Manhattan, they have a whole bunch of cops on foot, bicycle, and horseback. I swear that there's one on every street corner.

[obiken]

If you've ever been to Manhattan, they have a whole bunch of cops on foot, bicycle, and horseback. I swear that there's one on every street corner.

No legal guns, I am not saying the entire country should be that way, but banning Semi-auto rifles and high capacity mags would at least give cops a chance.

[FolkCrusader]

There's a lot of good discussion here for an off topic thread.

I don't do one sentence replies well, and when I looked at my original response I was like "wow, that's a thread derailer!" So I thought better.

[savvyman]

It would be a good idea for the health of this country to get back to understanding that the foundation of a free republic - Which in the entire 4,000 years of recorded human history is only a very recent phenomenon - is built on the freedom of speech. And part of the price that each citizen must pay for this freedom is too hear other viewpoints that they may not like or even find distasteful. So fire away Micheal B and any other athlete on any topic you feel moved to speak about.

[kalibane]

More stats (since people like stats) from the DOJ report on Baltimore PD's practices:

Black people 60% of drivers were 82% of traffic stops.
Black people 63% of the population but were 91% of arrests for discretionary offenses like "failure to obey" or trespassing.

Now take that and compare them to these stats:

When comparing traffic stops between white and black people, police were twice as likely to find contraband on white people as they were black people. When comparing pedestrian stops (stop and frisk) they were 50% more likely to find contraband on white people as they were black people.

So you're less likely to find illegal material on black people but they are stopped and searched at a much higher rate. Please explain to me again how the "crime rate" justifies black people having more contact with the Police and the abuse they receive is just based on that "justified" police contact.

This is exactly what I was talking about. If you are constantly looking in one place for crime and not in other places you are going to find a higher number of crimes in the place you are looking.

[NorthHawk]

Do the stats say if the whites had criminal histories for the most part. How many from each group that were stopped were known to the police?
It's easy to run up the figures if you stop and search mostly people known to them.
And that's only one of the problems with stats...

[burrrton]

Generally speaking, they're not 'stopping people known to them', but rather they're patrolling high crime areas. Which is what you'd hope and expect if you want crime brought down in those areas and the people living there to be protected.

[kalibane]

1. A criminal history does not constitute probable cause to continue stopping and searching them indiscriminately. It's still a violation of their constitutional rights.
2. They cited an example of a man who was stopped 30 times in the span of 2 years despite them never citing or arresting him. 30 times. THIRTY TIMES.
3. The reason a lot of these people have criminal records is because they are being targeted and arrested for discretionary charges like "failure to obey".

That anyone can sit up and try and rationalize this report says everything there is to say. They literally had a template of an arrest report for trespassing with blanks for date, time, name, age etc. etc.... you know what they didn't have a blank to write in? Race and Gender. Instead the form had "Black Male" already populated.

What the report said in no uncertain terms is that the entirety of the Baltimore Police Department (not a few bad officers), from policy to training, to implementation was run in a way that systematically violated the constitutional rights of black citizens but NOT other races. It went further to note that in the cases where police officers did engage in good community policing that those efforts were done because those individual officers took their own initiative to do it that way. They received zero direction or training from superior officers.

The spin on this issue is getting to the point that it's beyond ridiculous. I seriously want to know what it is in people that makes them so desperate to not believe what black people have been saying for generations about how they are treated by police, even in the face of these videos and investigations. You should read the report or at least some of the articles that have been written about it.

[obiken]

If we can just get Hillary elected she will take care of all this stuff.