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by **c_hawkbob** » Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:47 pm

32 year old stud RG, let go by the Saints on a contract dispute: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... hri-evans/

We just got a whole lot better on the line, this could be huge for us this year! Almost certainly means Ifedy will move back out to tackle.

by **HumanCockroach** » Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:23 pm

Beat me to it. Like many of us pointed out, they aren't done... Would expect another signing as well once cuts start happening...

There's the big name free agent many continually fretted about Seattle not signing, yet he is affordable. Multiple picks, 3 free agent signings, seems to me they are taking that line seriously ( and really always has) there's a difference between not valuing your line and valuing them at certain prices ( the same they do with ALL players and positions). It's unfortunate that the market is insane for line players, but it is what it is, supply and demand.

by **NorthHawk** » Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:41 pm

He's 32 and probably still has something left in the tank even if he can't play at the Pro Bowl level he once did.
His best asset for our OL will be a calming influence on some of the younger players if things start going bad which is something I mentioned we missed last year.

by **HumanCockroach** » Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:15 pm

Would anyone actually be shocked to see Webb not make the team? Seattle isn't afraid of paying a player that can't cut it ( numerous examples) and 2.45 million isn't much of an expense for instilling the thought that anybody can and will be cut if they aren't willing to work for their spot...

by **FolkCrusader** » Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:36 pm

I love the Evans signing, but if he was still what he was he would have been signed long ago. I think he is here for depth and a vet presence at this point, but i also think he knows he will get a chance to honestly compete. I think the current starting line looks like this;

LT - Gilliam (pretty certain)
LG - Glowinski (locked)
C - Britt, Hunt, Lewis (competition)
RG - Ifedi (locked)
RT - Odhiambo, Britt

Both guards are power players, which makes Evans experience even more alluring.

by **c_hawkbob** » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:04 pm

If his knee is better I can just about guarantee Evans as the starter. Not only that but he should be the best player on our line. He may not be the the All Pro he was from '09 to '13 but before missing 5 game to his knee last year he was still a Pro Bowler in'14.

The Saints cut him because they wanted him to take a pay cut (he was the highest paid guard in the league when he signed his old deal) and he refused. He won't have come here for nothing.

I say he starts at RG and Ifedi moves out to his proper position at RT.

by **MackStrongIsMyHero** » Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:14 pm

HC, bob,

You guys might be right about Webb. If you go to the "Uh Oh" thread and read the PI article saavy posted, you see where they have quoted Cable saying Webb looks like he didn't do anything in the spring. I don't know if that is lack of rehab or conditioning, but it seems he's not doing himself any favors. They will bounce him out in a hot minute if he's not there to compete.

by **Zorn76** » Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:12 am

Good pick up by us!
Definitely worth a shot to bring in Evans, who's looking for another ring before retirement.

And after all the shuffling we've see along the OL, cutting Webb wouldn't surprise - or really bother me - in the least.
We were smart to let a couple of our own vet linemen go, to allow them to sign elsewhere, and now are being proactive in trying to come up with the best possible combo for kickoff in September. Nice to see.

by **FolkCrusader** » Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:41 am

Old but Slow wrote:Webb signed a pretty nice contract for a journeyman, as I remember, but is there a difference in compensation if he doesn't make the team? Perhaps adding Evans will show him that he is not a lock, with new strong looking young guys coming in, there is not a lot of room for grizzled vets. I doubt very much (open to debate) that the team will keep 3 veteran free agents on the roster. Webb, Sowell (sp?), and now Evans means that at least one will need to go to accommodate the young talent.

Webb's signing bonus and this years salary are all guaranteed (about $2.5 million total.) He is a a unique football player and is still a young man, but is not looking good so far at practice. Whether that is due to injury or lack of interest or both remains to be seen. Sowell got $200k up front, nothing else guaranteed. At this point he doesn't see preseason game 4 unless he improves.

by **obiken** » Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:43 am

I hate to dump water on this whole discussion but lets not start jumping up and down. This guy was a Pro-Bowler 2 years ago. He is 32, long in the tooth, and is not the answer to all of our OL woes. Yes, it was a good solid move, but not the panacea that a lot you guys seem to think. IF we get by this year with our qb not seriously injured, I will be proud, happy, and thrilled.

by **FolkCrusader** » Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:23 am

No doubt it is an early discussion and any of us could be wrong, but I'm just so excited to be talking real football.

This team has me super excited, so many possibilities right now.

by **monkey** » Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:32 am

I keep hearing people talking about the chances of Webb getting cut now. I don't see it, and I don't see any need for it either. Yes, he is getting paid more than we would like, but it's fully guaranteed, so cutting him does nothing to help that. It never hurts to have depth, and since we save no money by cutting him...

by **c_hawkbob** » Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:35 am

Obi, this is a guard we're talking about, not a RB.

by **MackStrongIsMyHero** » Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:20 am

monkey wrote:I keep hearing people talking about the chances of Webb getting cut now. I don't see it, and I don't see any need for it either. Yes, he is getting paid more than we would like, but it's fully guaranteed, so cutting him does nothing to help that. It never hurts to have depth, and since we save no money by cutting him...

I don't think it is unrealistic to think he might be cut if he hasn't been doing is job in being ready for the upcoming season. The fact that Tom Cable mentioned that it doesn't look like Webb has been putting in the necessary work since the spring is a bit concerning. If you don't come in to camp in shape, is there really enough time to get back into shape before the season starts?

by **HumanCockroach** » Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:43 pm

monkey wrote:I keep hearing people talking about the chances of Webb getting cut now. I don't see it, and I don't see any need for it either. Yes, he is getting paid more than we would like, but it's fully guaranteed, so cutting him does nothing to help that. It never hurts to have depth, and since we save no money by cutting him...

Seattle has shown zero qualms about cutting guys owed money. It isn't a consideration on their part, and you need look no further back than last season, the season before, the season before in fact, there hasn't been an off season I remember where they DIDN'T cut a player with guaranteed money... Whether it be a free agent signee like Williams last year, or a traded for player. If they don't work for their spot, or fit in, they are shown the door. Seattle puts the best 53 on the roster, money or no money.

Webb sliding to third string should be viewed one of two ways. He hasn't worked, and they are sending a message, or he doesn't have the ability to actually be a starting tackle on this team ( which based on his body of work, wouldn't be a surprise to pretty much anyone. He was graded as one of the worst tackles in the league inn Chicago, moved to guard in Oakland before being slid to tackle because of injury, where he was once again rated as one of the worst tackles inn the league)... Either way, not a good thing.

by **HumanCockroach** » Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:48 pm

obiken wrote:I hate to dump water on this whole discussion but lets not start jumping up and down. This guy was a Pro-Bowler 2 years ago. He is 32, long in the tooth, and is not the answer to all of our OL woes. Yes, it was a good solid move, but not the panacea that a lot you guys seem to think. IF we get by this year with our qb not seriously injured, I will be proud, happy, and thrilled.

So he's the same age as Joe Thomas from Cleveland? As well as multiple all pro lineman in the league. I would be with you if they signed him to a ten year 100 million dollar contract or something, but they didn't.

by **jshawaii22** » Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:27 pm

In his "press conference" he indicated that so far, all he's practiced at is LEFT Guard. This kind of blows all our theories so far, but it's only been two days.

by **NorthHawk** » Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:45 pm

According to Pete via Seahawks.com, they were trying him there to see what kind of flexibility he has, so it doesn't appear to be anything unusual in how they put together the OL.
It would appear that if he's recovered from his injury, he will be a starter and with 2 rookies (if you include Glowinski) possibly starting and the others playing new positions, a solid veteran presence will be invaluable.

by **monkey** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:16 pm

HumanCockroach wrote:
Seattle has shown zero qualms about cutting guys owed money. It isn't a consideration on their part, and you need look no further back than last season, the season before, the season before in fact, there hasn't been an off season I remember where they DIDN'T cut a player with guaranteed money... Whether it be a free agent signee like Williams last year, or a traded for player. If they don't work for their spot, or fit in, they are shown the door. Seattle puts the best 53 on the roster, money or no money.

Webb sliding to third string should be viewed one of two ways. He hasn't worked, and they are sending a message, or he doesn't have the ability to actually be a starting tackle on this team ( which based on his body of work, wouldn't be a surprise to pretty much anyone. He was graded as one of the worst tackles in the league inn Chicago, moved to guard in Oakland before being slid to tackle because of injury, where he was once again rated as one of the worst tackles inn the league)... Either way, not a good thing.

Two things. First, while it's true that Seattle doesn't mind cutting players who cost money, they don't just throw money away either. Unless there is someone BETTER out there that they could sign to replace Webb, then there is no reason whatsoever for them to just throw away a player who they are already paying regardless, and who is at least up to speed with the scheme.
Second, Webb hasn't officially slid anywhere just yet, at this point it's all just pure speculation.

Actually let me add a third. I wouldn't go by some of those site that grade O-linemen, they do a HORRIBLE job. If it PFF that you're getting the grade from, you should print it out, take it to the bathroom with you, proceed to take a big dooky, and then wipe your butt with it, because that's exactly what it's worth.

by **monkey** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:24 pm

obiken wrote:I hate to dump water on this whole discussion but lets not start jumping up and down. This guy was a Pro-Bowler 2 years ago. He is 32, long in the tooth, and is not the answer to all of our OL woes. Yes, it was a good solid move, but not the panacea that a lot you guys seem to think. IF we get by this year with our qb not seriously injured, I will be proud, happy, and thrilled.

I doubt that you hate trying to dump water on anything, seeing how often you try to do it.
As tempering expectations for Evans, perhaps you don't realize just how good he has been throughout his career??
Evans is a future hall of fame player, he's that freakin good, and he's really only had the one season of injuries, last year. At 32 years old, going to be 33 this season, he's a LONG ways from washed up. Offensive linemen often play well into their late 30's at an extremely high level.
At worst, we'll get one season of veteran presence in a locker room full of guys with very little actual experience. At best, we'll get a full season of one of the leagues best pass blockers on the interior of the offensive line.

Sorry Obi, but there's no way you're going to ruin THIS PARTY!!!

by **HumanCockroach** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:41 pm

Who said anything by going by just grading? I watched him play poorly in Chicago, followed by coaches deciding to move him, followed by watching him play poorly when injury forced him back outside.. Add to that fact that Cable was less than complimentary ( ie he looks as though he hasn't worked at all) etc.

Your assuming that Seattle coaching staff doesn't feel strongly about Ifedi there as well as assuming that it would be "throwing" away a good player ( I seem to remember them throwing several serviceable, at least depth wise, players away. Or at least based on your definition of one. Williams could have been held on to, but wasn't, Houshmanzadeh, Tatupu, White etc there has been NUMEROUS players dumped)

by **RiverDog** » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:35 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:If his knee is better I can just about guarantee Evans as the starter. Not only that but he should be the best player on our line. He may not be the the All Pro he was from '09 to '13 but before missing 5 game to his knee last year he was still a Pro Bowler in'14.

The Saints cut him because they wanted him to take a pay cut (he was the highest paid guard in the league when he signed his old deal) and he refused. He won't have come here for nothing.

I say he starts at RG and Ifedi moves out to his proper position at RT.

The current plan is for him to compete for the LG spot...

http://sea.247sports.com/Bolt/Seattle-S ... d-46658114

But who knows. The way things are going, Ifedi could end up at center with Evans and Glo at which ever guards. I guess we'll just have to wait until the music stops playing to find out which chairs are occupied by who on the OL.

I fall somewhere between Obi and CBob. This definitely makes us better if for nothing else, it give us more options. But I'm still worried about continuity. It seems like every day I turn around and see another new projected starting lineup. This is sure looking a lot like last year's abortion.

by **c_hawkbob** » Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:24 am

The plan is to look at him at LG to see what kind of flexibility he has:

"He's been a career right guard," Carroll said. "We're going to make sure that we see him at left guard and develop that; so we see what kind of flexibility we have."--Pete Carroll

Doesn't mean we intend to keep him there.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:14 am

c_hawkbob wrote:Doesn't mean we intend to keep him (Evans) there.

Let's review our projected starting OL: Evans is penciled in at LG after playing his entire career at RG, Ifedi is a rookie learning a new position at RG, Britt is playing a new position at C, and Gilliam is learning a new position at LT, we're not sure who our RT is going to be, not to mention that we don't have an experienced blocking TE, our starting RB just got off the PUP, and we will have a new FB. Signing Evans helps raise the talent level of this group and brings some experience to the table, but it doesn't help our continuity any.

IMO that's part of the problem with our OL over the past few years. "The Plan" constantly changes, meaning that we really don't have a plan, we just throw bodies out there and bet on the come. There's no continuity, a factor that just about anyone close to the game will tell us is a critical component of any good OL. Last season, we threw a bunch of guys out there in new positions and everybody kept telling me that we had to give the OL time to gel, which it never did, at least not until we'd lost HFA and our division title and severely undermined our chances of getting back to the SB. This is almost like a visit from the Ghost of Christmas Past.

I realize that I'm a career Debbie Downer or always pointing out the half empty part of the glass, but I'm truly looking for a reason to be optimistic with this group and I just can't see it the way some of you guys do.

by **NorthHawk** » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:35 am

Refer to Bob's and my comments above about this is just checking on his flexibility and wait until the preseason has a few games before making any declarations about where players will be playing. We all know injuries are a huge deal in the NFL, so if we have a player who can only play RG, and another who can play both sides, doesn't it make sense to know that instead of trying it out in the middle of a game?
The constant upheaval will continue as players along the OL leave in FA. Some might be pretty good, and others might be just average linemen, but that's how they seem to want to play the money numbers game on this team. Personally I think it's a big gamble that we lost early in the season last year, but if the young guys play well enough early in their careers, we could get 3 or 4 solid years out of them before their contracts are up and they move on.

by **FolkCrusader** » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:44 am

Glowinski is probably the most solid position on the line at this point, he'll be the starting LG. Evans needs to be able to play more than one position if he wants to make this team though.

by **MackStrongIsMyHero** » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:56 am

I second Northhawk. I wouldn't say there isn't a plan; they just won't keep guys they deem too expensive. Giacomini, Carpenter, Sweezy, and Okung were all allowed to walk. It is definitely frustrating to see it happen, but what can you do? What position group to you cut back on to keep them?

And they don't pick up o-linemen haphazardly, or I won't believe that is the case. This is a professional front office. The guys they pick are picked with a purpose and with due diligence, but it doesn't mean they won't mess up.

I'm not confident in this line right now, either, especially not after last season's start, but I'm not going to say their best plan is throwing whatever out there and hoping it sticks. I want guys like Ifedi, Glowinski, Britt, Ohdiambo, and Gilliam to all work out, but, even if they do, you'll see this front office let most of them go before their second contract. O-line continuity, if achieved, will be short-lived under this regime.

by **jshawaii22** » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:33 pm

Free Agents: Teams don't necessarily "ALLOW" the players walk. Many players CHOOSE to leave the team. While it's true that some teams just doesn't see the VALUE in another's teams offer in a new contract and decides not to match it or in some cases, isn't given the chance or they don't have the cap space. Many reasons for leaving. We usually just assume that we let them walk.

by **MackStrongIsMyHero** » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:28 pm

I think it is fairly obvious in the case of the offensive linemen I mentioned, the Seahawks were not willing to pay those guys what they were getting on the open market. Maybe those guys were aching to get out of town, but I doubt it. They went where the money was. No, the Seahawks didn't allow them to do anything, but they were not willing to go out of their way to keep them. The phrase "let them walk" is used many times to refer to a team that doesn't make or find a way to make a counter offer to one of their free agents.

[edit] And I don't know for certain if the Seahawks made an offer first or if the player's agent came back to them with an opposing offer to see if they would match. Given the fact that the Seahawks are an organization that players want to play for (coaching, environment, etc...) and the championship window is wide open, the likely explanation for them leaving in my mind is that the Seahawks were not willing to pay them as much as they were getting elsewhere.

by **NorthHawk** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:17 am

The concern I have, and maybe others, too is that an OL needs to work together for a while to be most effective.
An OL group that is marginally talented can be just as or more productive than a group of stars if the lesser talented group works better together.
I think those of us who are concerned understand the dollar allocation philosophy of the Seahawks, but I worry about the cohesion to be an effective OL considering the very limited time the coaches have getting that coordination to work because of the limits of the CBA.

Maybe this year we will get settled early and be able with the younger guys playing together, see this group stay intact for a few years.
It's still a big gamble to fiddle with the 'Engine of the Offense' while in the middle of the aforementioned Championship Window.

by **jshawaii22** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:38 pm

I fully think that Russell Okung made a decision to leave the team, no matter what our offer was. That is obvious by the comments from NFLPA who decried his decision to be his own agent and signed one of the worst FA contracts of all time. Hard to believe we didn't make him a better offer. Could be the same for Carp, too.

js

by **burrrton** » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:19 am

Hard to believe we didn't make him a better offer.

Said it before, I'll say it again: it's certainly a "be careful what you wish for" type of situation (this year could be one that makes me weep to have Okung back), but... he was never really that great a starter for us.

He had one Pro Bowl season, but otherwise was just passable in my estimation. Add that he was constantly injured and I think there was just no way we were going to give him anything close to what he was looking for.

by **c_hawkbob** » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:23 am

I've been curious as to what kind of money we had to spend on Evans, I'm surprised at what we got him for:

The contract for new Seattle Seahawks offensive lineman Jahri Evans is one year at $1.065 million with $80,000 guaranteed.

Definitely a "prove it" contract, here's to hoping for a full return to form!

by **FolkCrusader** » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:36 pm

He got the minimum contract for a player with 10+ years experience, $985k, as well as the maximum signing bonus ($80k) that still allows the team to use the veteran minimum benefit. On a veteran contract of one year with a signing bonus of $80k or less the team is allowed a cap hit of only $600k, which is the same as a second year player. Essentially he got a minimum deal.

I love the Evans signing although as I said earlier I don't think he will be starting unless someone gets hurt. But who knows, he could start tearing it up too.

by **NorthHawk** » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:01 pm

Last year the interior of the OL was the problem. If Evans is 3/4 of what he was in his Pro Bowl years it would be an improvement, not to mention the veteran presence on field.
I'm not so sure it's a good idea to start 2 rookies at Guard (I know about Glowinski, but he is an equivalent of a rookie) and a Center that hasn't played that position in prior years considering what happened early last year.

by **FolkCrusader** » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:05 pm

NorthHawk wrote:Last year the interior of the OL was the problem. If Evans is 3/4 of what he was in his Pro Bowl years it would be an improvement, not to mention the veteran presence on field.
I'm not so sure it's a good idea to start 2 rookies at Guard (I know about Glowinski, but he is an equivalent of a rookie) and a Center that hasn't played that position in prior years considering what happened early last year.

I see your point. but keep in mind Evans has never played in this type of system either so although he has had great success he is learning as well. I'm sure we will all have more thoughts after Saturday.

by **FolkCrusader** » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:38 pm

Pete's presser today indicated Webb will not be playing Saturday due to a twisted knee. Because of that Gilliam will be starting at RT and Sowell will be starting at LT. He seemed to indicate this was just for this game.

Pete said he only expects the starters to play a short time, and then extended time by back ups.

by **burrrton** » Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:58 pm

I don't see how Evans *can't* be an upgrade over one of our rooks, unless those dudes are a lot more studly than I imagine (or Evans is a lot less so, which admittedly is a possibility).

by **NorthHawk** » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:25 am

I see your point. but keep in mind Evans has never played in this type of system either so although he has had great success he is learning as well. I'm sure we will all have more thoughts after Saturday.

I think learning the system should be easier than learning and developing the proper techniques that he has already done. The young guys are probably still being coached on proper hand and foot position as well as angles whereas a 6 time Pro Bowler should already have that aspect largely mastered. The question remains whether he still has "it" in his game.
32 isn't that old, but some guys get beat up more than others and it takes its toll.

by **politicalfootball** » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:52 am

Wow thanks BOB this is my kind of thread I was very concerned about our OL and in the offseason would have given them a grade of C but now we look closer to a B and that is before they gel together. Don't worry about a B grade we are probably going to get deeper and better all along the OL. Now we need help on the DL losing Williams hurt.

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