OLine Is Gellin

[Vegaseahawk]

Heres an article about the olines performance vs kc. Thoughts?

http://www.seahawks.com/news/2016/08/13/seattle-seahawks-new-look-offensive-line-looked-very-solid-preseason-opener-kansas

[NorthHawk]

They did look surprisingly good, but like in the Michael thread, it's only the first game.
Let's see how they progress over the next couple of games against different opponents before making any judgements.

[Vegaseahawk]

Sometimes a puzzle needs just a piece or 2 to fit for the whole thing to be solved. Lets see...I've always been a Cable fan, & I hope he finally gets his panacea zbs in place. Our oline was ranked dead last for 2015.

[Zorn76]

First time in awhile I've been a bit enthused concerning our OL, lol.
They will have their growing pains, naturally, but I'm still glad we moved on from what we had before. It needed to happen.

Rubber meets the road in a few weeks. Glad that we get to open at home, so these guys can adjust to making some line calls without having to fight crowd noise.

[HumanCockroach]

They'll be fine, just like a few of us have been saying from the beginning.

[RiverDog]

I spent a lot of time watching the OL. They weren't half as bad as I expected, at least as far as the first unit went. Hopefully I'll be eating some crow here in a couple of months.

[monkey]

This seems like a good thread to put this.
Pete just recently had an interview at KJR where he was asked about Britt, and he said some things that REALLY caught my attention in a big way.
https://twitter.com/BrockESPN/status/765624802706984960
You really should listen to the entire thing, but the part that REALLY stuck out to me was the following.

One thing that stood out to most everyone watching was the success of Britt in the middle, what was the process like when you first had conversations about converting him?
Pete: Well uh, we've converted him a couple times so far (chuckles). That's because he is flexible and he's a bright player and he's got everything in line. He really has his mind in the right place, his hearts in the right place, he'll work like crazy for whatever you ask him to do, he's just the most compliant guy. But it seems like he, no, he has, he has had a technical jump in his control of his body and his pad level to the point where it looks like he should have been playing center all along, he just looks so natural at it. But I think it would have applied no matter where he was playing. We've really gotten him to sit down and gotten his leverage in the right spot. For a big guy he is playing very low and very square. He did it in the running game and in the passing game. It was an enormous accomplishment for him in such a short time.

So your saying he really just got better? It almost doesn't matter the position, if he was still playing guard he's just made improvements that he'd be a better player anyways?
Pete: It's a very technical part of it, it's how you sit down in your stance, you don't sit back and then lunge getting your weight out in over your toes and you miss things. He's not missing very much at all. He came off the J.R. Sweezy school of go knock the hell out of everything that's moving and he wanted to be like J.R. and those two guys were those kinds of players and we were unable to get J.R. to sit like Britt made the change. It's a beautiful thing that's happened.

Wow. What Pete said about Sweezy, and how Britt was trying to be like him in the way that he attacked everything, and that was causing him to get out past his proper balance, explains SO VERY MUCH about the problems those two guys had in pass blocking, while still being good run blockers.
If Britt really has made the correction necessary, if he really has learned to keep his pads down and his leverage in the right spot, then were' going to be seeing a while new Britt, one who is a big upgrade over the replacement level player that Lewis is.

More than any one thing that I've read this entire off season, this statement from Pete has given me legitimate hope that this line will be good, and that Britt is finally going to be the player we'd hoped when we drafted him.
VERY EXCITED about this!

[NorthHawk]

Instability or rather ineffectiveness at Center will mess up an OL pretty quickly. We saw the difference when we replaced Nowak last year and how the line as a whole improved.
If his improvements continue, we could have a good line this year and if they get to stay together for next year they could be one of the better lines.

I wonder if Sweezy's aggressiveness was as a result of him being a DL convert and Britt can reel it in because he played OL when he was younger. Maybe that's a downside for conversions if some guys can't dial it back a little.

[NorthHawk]

The OL played pretty well again last night. There were a few wobbles which is to be expected in only their 2nd game together and the limited practice time available.
The run blocking was very good again, and Russell held onto the ball too long on a couple of the sacks, but all in all it was a good game up front.

[Hawktawk]

The line blocked well in the run game but they got their ass handed to them in pass protection.Any other observation is whistling in the graveyard. Russ was sacked 4 times and was 5-11 for 77 yards and no points. There were a couple of times guys were on him before he could even take his drop. I put one of the 4 on him but the man will get killed this year if they don't clean that up. To be fair there were some drops and bad routes.

Also Zimmer obviously game planned and threw the kitchen sink at our line, trying to send a message.He doesn't like Seattle much.But hes a hard nosed motivator and he is building the team in his image.

Those who write the Vikes off as a one year wonder do so at their peril.

[obiken]

I hate to do this, but I am being drug kicking and screaming to living down to my rep! Our OLine is Gellin???? Really?? Did I miss something fellas??? Our OL sucked giant donkey weenies. They gave up 4 sacks to our 1st team qb, who on Que, took the responsibility like the leader he is. Now, I missed the game, but did I miss more than I needed to??
I am at the point with everyone's state of denial that I am about ready to give up and wait for our QB to be on the gurney, then say I told you so, I told you so, nanner, nanner, nanner. I REALLY HOPE THAT DAY DOESNT COME. OBTW, Pete's excuse for those sacks was like the excuse for the SB pick, not just lame, but power Lame.

[NorthHawk]

2 of those sacks were on Russ. He had time, but didn't throw it even if it was a simple throw away.
There were some mistakes by the OL for sure, but they have only been working together for a few months and the CBA limits the amount of practice time allowed.
There will be more mistakes in the games to come, for sure but all lines make them, even those that have worked together for a couple of seasons.
In all, the OL didn't look that bad.
I was expecting much worse.

[obiken]

Its all the great experiment that if it works NH, will redefine how teams in the NFL do the cap. IF Cable and Carroll can make it work, then you pay the Defense and skilled players a boatload, and the OL gets Minimum wage, I get that part. However, I think ramming the ball down a defense before they can react is a bad bet. Teams cover players off the line, that's why rookies look bad. There are no open guys at first. RW has had the ability to run around till guys get open; it gets even worse because teams are not stupid, they know that the Hawk OL sucks, you don't think that they will cover people off the line. Moreover, this is PS wait till they stop facing vanilla defenses for rookies to run, and face down all pros; come on I hope they come together but I, and most of the experts have serious doubts. No I am not an expert.

[NorthHawk]

What I'm concerned about is the number of players playing a different position, are new to the team, or are rookies (I include Glowinski as a rookie).
4 are a concern if Gilliam remains at RT, and it's one of the reasons I think we might see Evans playing early - if just to keep the focus when or if things go bad.
That being said, they didn't do that badly the first 2 games but you are right they need a lot of work and playing together is the only cure.

[HumanCockroach]

I hate to do this, but I am being drug kicking and screaming to living down to my rep! Our OLine is Gellin???? Really?? Did I miss something fellas??? Our OL sucked giant donkey weenies. They gave up 4 sacks to our 1st team qb, who on Que, took the responsibility like the leader he is. Now, I missed the game, but did I miss more than I needed to??
I am at the point with everyone's state of denial that I am about ready to give up and wait for our QB to be on the gurney, then say I told you so, I told you so, nanner, nanner, nanner. I REALLY HOPE THAT DAY DOESNT COME. OBTW, Pete's excuse for those sacks was like the excuse for the SB pick, not just lame, but power Lame.

Why would you do that? It isn't like you've come on after the last three seasons ( three seasons in which Wilson hasn't missed a single snap of practice much less a game) and admitted how stupid it was to claim Wilson was going to end up on a gurney because of that line.

Some are like broken clocks. Predicting doom, that will someday be right, so they can gloat? Pathetic.

[burrrton]

The o-line didn't look great, but as others have said, some of that was on Russ, and something that hasn't been mentioned (I don't think) is that MIN ran some overloads and such.

Yeah, it overwhelmed our inexperienced line, MIN, but you also shot your wad (to some degree) for a preseason win. Congrats- enjoy your Preseason Lombardi, and thanks for helping our o-line a bit more than they would have been otherwise.

[HumanCockroach]

http://sea.247sports.com/Bolt/Pete-Carr ... t-46857509

[obiken]

http://sea.247sports.com/Bolt/Pete-Carroll-calls-out-Russell-Wilson-for-four-sack-night-46857509

Human, your really buying that hype. They know they have a problem, so they set it up ahead of time for RW to be the fall guy. This line is bad, PC can blame him all he wants to. BTW, I am NOT the only one who thinks the OL is bad, a lot of experts feel the same way I do, you can call me all the names you want.

PS, I still don't think giving up Max Unger, and a 1st rounder for Graham was a good move. Now we may be into the 4th game before he can play.

[HumanCockroach]

Not buying anything. Not what I do. I didn't "buy" the experts "Seahawks are dead" last year, or "Wilson isn't black enough" or "they have no chance against Denver" or numerous other " experts" opinions. I use my eyes, mind and experience to draw my conclusions. I don't panic, fret or freak out every time Wilson gets sacked. It's part of the game, every QB gets hit, every QB eventually gets hurt. Doesn't matter which line is in front of them. I understand that simple and basic truth.

Hence, I understand that a QB getting sacked isn't always attributable to the line. The ball HAS to come out, and it has to come out quick when there's a blitz. I was at the game, Minnesota blitzed early and often. NO line succeeds when there's 7 coming, and five blockers. That is on the QB and the receivers to recognize it and adjust accordingly.

I pointed it out last season in week 2, Bevell and Wilson didn't adjust until week 9.... Coincidence that Wilson went on that tear after they did? Doubtful. What I saw was the same thing I saw last year early on. Open receivers in the flat being ignored looking for deep balls... Just the way it works. Wilson has always looked for the bigger play ( by his own admission) and often times that leads to sacks. Especially when there's a blitz coming...

As for the experts opinions... Those and $1.00 will get you something off the value menu at Taco Bell..

The idea that Seattle "set up" their franchise 20 million dollar a year QB to be a "fall guy" is ludicrous and not worthy of discussion.

[jshawaii22]

Pete is 100% correct about Russell, if Russell was, say, any other unmobile QB. The issue is that those 'plays' that Russell has made out of nothing, those long gains are his calling card and yes, he should of thrown the ball away, but there has to be a learning process for the OLine and Russell. I'm not sure if Pete was deflecting the bad play away from the OLine or really mad at Russell. Either way could be right.

We should be worried though, preseason or not, that through 2 games our #1 offense has ZERO anything.

[burrrton]

We should be worried though, preseason or not, that through 2 games our #1 offense has ZERO anything.

In the 2014 preseason, we looked like a preseason offensive juggernaut- that carried over into a 3-3 start.

I don't disagree all that much except to say I don't think we should worry yet. Preseason is more about individuals and individual units playing well, and the question marks of this team (O-line, D-line, SAM, RB) have looked pretty good overall. As such, unless we think Russell has morphed into a poor decision maker, it's a pretty good bet the offensive production will come.

[monkey]

Those who write the Vikes off as a one year wonder do so at their peril.

Exactly!
I've been trying to tell people that the Vikings are EASILY the more talented team between them and the media darlings Packers.
Vikings defense is top five in terms of talent. Their secondary is outstanding, and truth be told, their front seven is as well. They have zero weaknesses defensively. The ONLY thing holding that team back is the passing game.
The ONLY thing the Packers have that is better than the Vikings is their passing game, that's it. The Vikings ought to win the North again.
In fact, I have both teams we've played so far, winning their respective divisions. When we do predictions, you can bet that I'll be picking the Chiefs and Vikings both to make it FAR in the playoffs, like I see Kansas City possibly going to the big dance, and ultimately losing to the Seahawks, who beat the Vikings in the NFC Championship.
Both hose teams are terrific teams, and poised to do VERY big things this year.

[obiken]

Not buying anything. Not what I do. I didn't "buy" the experts "Seahawks are dead" last year, or "Wilson isn't black enough" or "they have no chance against Denver" or numerous other " experts" opinions. I use my eyes, mind and experience to draw my conclusions. I don't panic, fret or freak out every time Wilson gets sacked. It's part of the game, every QB gets hit, every QB eventually gets hurt. Doesn't matter which line is in front of them. I understand that simple and basic truth.

Hence, I understand that a QB getting sacked isn't always attributable to the line. The ball HAS to come out, and it has to come out quick when there's a blitz. I was at the game, Minnesota blitzed early and often. NO line succeeds when there's 7 coming, and five blockers. That is on the QB and the receivers to recognize it and adjust accordingly.

I pointed it out last season in week 2, Bevell and Wilson didn't adjust until week 9.... Coincidence that Wilson went on that tear after they did? Doubtful. What I saw was the same thing I saw last year early on. Open receivers in the flat being ignored looking for deep balls... Just the way it works. Wilson has always looked for the bigger play ( by his own admission) and often times that leads to sacks. Especially when there's a blitz coming...

As for the experts opinions... Those and $1.00 will get you something off the value menu at Taco Bell..

The idea that Seattle "set up" their franchise 20 million dollar a year QB to be a "fall guy" is ludicrous and not worthy of discussion.

Actually I stole it from Chuck Powell on KJR Human. (You know good artist copy, great artist steal!) He feels that it was set up for him to be the natural fall guy for our OL. By fall guy I mean they know he is going to have a hard time, its been prearranged that RW takes the blame on himself. Makes sense really Human, its not that big of reach, its been done before. As I said IF the Grand Experiment works Cable and him are geniuses period. Pete used Pressure across an entire front to sack QB's in 2013, If he can do OL by committee he is home. I am sorry I am not a believer, like I said, I am not the only one.

[HumanCockroach]

Yep. Listen to everything someone on air has to say.... It isn't like their entire job description has to do with ratings or anything...

Like I said. Not worthy of discussing. Wilson has been called on it before, acknowledged he did so well before now, that isn't him being set up, it's part of his make up. You either grasp and accept it, or you don't.

[obiken]

Yep. Listen to everything someone on air has to say.... It isn't like their entire job description has to do with ratings or anything...

Like I said. Not worthy of discussing. Wilson has been called on it before, acknowledged he did so well before now, that isn't him being set up, it's part of his make up. You either grasp and accept it, or you don't.

I think they trusted him enough to go to him and say hey, our OL will take 5 or 6 games to jell, and we know you can take the criticism. RW says no problem coach. I don't think its that big a reach Human.
OBTW, I think our defense should be really good this year barring injury. I think we should win 10 games Human, more IF we can get off to a good start. We'll see.

[burrrton]

Good article from FG regarding preseason play, etc:

http://www.hawkblogger.com/2016/08/see- ... fense.html

[NorthHawk]

I've been on the same page about the interior of the OL being most important.
From what I've seen, there is hope for a better OL at this time of the year.
Last year, it seemed it could only get marginally better if at all with that personnel group.
I think Ifedi is already better than Sweezy. He's more powerful in run blocking and his pass blocking is about the same right now but should get better with experience and coaching.
Britt is playing better at Center than I expected, and has the size and power to counter some of the very good interior DLs they are going to face. That wasn't the case last year.

They are definitely going to have their issues early in the year, but for the most part I think these guys have a good upside, and that's something I haven't thought for a while.

[obiken]

Ok, let me start my concerns from scratch. We lost an all Pro Center and a quasi All Pro Left Tackle, so help me to understand how our OL is going to get better?? Sorry Ifedi is Guard now, Jweb our other tackle who has been passed around the league more than a bad bottle of muscatel at a derelict convention. That leaves the venerable Mr. Gilliam; class, whoever thinks Gilliam is better than Russell Okung, raise your hand. Sorry, did I miss something folks? Now, maybe like the Oregon Ducks spread offense, the sum is better than the parts, let us hope so.

[burrrton]

We lost an all Pro Center and a quasi All Pro Left Tackle, so help me to understand how our OL is going to get better??

Max was a one-time All Pro (2x Pro Bowl) and Okung made the Pro Bowl only exactly once (never All Pro). Doesn't mean you're inaccurate, but I think it should be put in perspective (neither were perennial all-stars).

No doubt Max was a loss, but it's not *at all* clear we won't eventually end up with an upgrade at LT, and even more so if you count continuity/injuries in the equation.

[NorthHawk]

Ok, let me start my concerns from scratch. We lost an all Pro Center and a quasi All Pro Left Tackle, so help me to understand how our OL is going to get better?? Sorry Ifedi is Guard now, Jweb our other tackle who has been passed around the league more than a bad bottle of muscatel at a derelict convention. That leaves the venerable Mr. Gilliam; class, whoever thinks Gilliam is better than Russell Okung, raise your hand. Sorry, did I miss something folks? Now, maybe like the Oregon Ducks spread offense, the sum is better than the parts, let us hope so.

Talking last years group, not 2 years ago.
Last year they were a poor group at the start, this year they aren't that bad so far and it all begins in the middle where pressure destroyed any timing there might have otherwise been for the better part of the first half of the season. I think Ifedi is better than Sweezy and Britt is better than Nowak or Lewis. That right there is an improvement from last year.

[obiken]

Ok, good points guys.

[RiverDog]

2

[RiverDog]

Talking last years group, not 2 years ago.
Last year they were a poor group at the start, this year they aren't that bad so far and it all begins in the middle where pressure destroyed any timing there might have otherwise been for the better part of the first half of the season. I think Ifedi is better than Sweezy and Britt is better than Nowak or Lewis. That right there is an improvement from last year.

That's a pretty good summary. It's still a long ways until the Miami game in September, but I feel a lot better about our OL prospects than I did last just a few weeks ago.

[obiken]

Well OK, if you feel better River I feel better! As usual I was getting crap beat outta me by Human, some of it justified based on my past, some of it over the top.

[HumanCockroach]

Ok, let me start my concerns from scratch. We lost an all Pro Center and a quasi All Pro Left Tackle, so help me to understand how our OL is going to get better?? Sorry Ifedi is Guard now, Jweb our other tackle who has been passed around the league more than a bad bottle of muscatel at a derelict convention. That leaves the venerable Mr. Gilliam; class, whoever thinks Gilliam is better than Russell Okung, raise your hand. Sorry, did I miss something folks? Now, maybe like the Oregon Ducks spread offense, the sum is better than the parts, let us hope so.

Both hands raised, both feet, and anyone else's hands I can force in the air...

To be "better" Okung would have to start with being on the field. Gilliam started every game last season, something Okung never accomplished in his career...

Edit: what post did I make that was over the top? No where did I say some over the top statement Like " Wilson will end up on a Gurney" or " he's been set up by the franchise to be the fall guy"...

[Hawktawk]

Russ gave himself credit for two of the sacks.

And as has been said Zimmer was being an ass blitzing like that in a preseason game against a team who he knew would not be game planning.If we see them in the postseason its going to be war.

The passing offense and protection in general has been woeful so far. I hope it gets better

I understand its 2 preseason games. Thursday ought to tell us more. Its probably the most we will see of the first team units. I wasn't overjoyed with the defense in the first half either giving up points to Shawn frippin Hill.

I'm on the hook for 2 K to take the family to the opener and if they let Suh come clean like that Russ might indeed be on a stretcher.