Kaepernick

[EmeraldBullet]

I actually have an issue with the cops now refusing to do their jobs they are paid to do because they got their feelings hurt. This whole situation is ridiculous and out of control. Kap is just trying to keep himself relevant, this protest has nothing to do with oppression. I actually think it's sad that we are talking about this at all.

[mykc14]

I actually have an issue with the cops now refusing to do their jobs they are paid to do because they got their feelings hurt. This whole situation is ridiculous and out of control. Kap is just trying to keep himself relevant, this protest has nothing to do with oppression. I actually think it's sad that we are talking about this at all.

I may be wrong but I don't think it's part of the police officers negotiated contract with a city to work events such as football games.

[Hawk Sista]

Nice post Oly. Nice to see you in here.

[RiverDog]

I actually have an issue with the cops now refusing to do their jobs they are paid to do because they got their feelings hurt. This whole situation is ridiculous and out of control. Kap is just trying to keep himself relevant, this protest has nothing to do with oppression. I actually think it's sad that we are talking about this at all.

They're all volunteers. The article states that the team hires them as additional security. I have no problem with this form of protest by the police. It's not like they are going on strike, they are simply refusing to volunteer.

Hawktalk's suggestion of the police refusing to patrol intercity predominantly black areas in response to the BLM movement, though made in jest and is somewhat entertaining, is highly illegal and morally would be worse than Kaep's protest.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="RiverDog"

Hawktalk's suggestion of the police refusing to patrol intercity predominantly black areas in response to the BLM movement, though made in jest and is somewhat entertaining, is highly illegal and morally would be worse than Kaep's protest.[/quote]

Sadly RD it is already happening in many inner city neighborhoods by hydraulic principle. Baltimore is a good example.Police have been hesitant to police bad neiborhoods after the Freddie Gray debacle where 6 cops were charged with murder with no investigation and no proof and cops were ordered to stand down while thugs looted and pelted them with rocks. Baltimore's murder rate has skyrocketed and the same black female mayor and black female prosecuter who strung those guys up were begging them to go do their job again.

BLM COSTS LIVES IT DOES NOT SAVE THEM

Police departments all over america are having problems staffing. Chicago, the ghastly bloodbath cannot find and afford the officers it needs to stem the violence. Who would want to police these hellholes anyway?It is as dangerous as Afganistan and a pretty much thankless job.Cops are charged with murder for shooting armed felons and hung out to dry without due process for political expediency.

And some SOB who wears pig socks and Castro shirts and disrespects America gets 12 million to ride the pine.

Its an Fd up world folks. That is all.

[jshawaii22]

There are at least two parts to the Police presence at a Professional Football game. I'm sure most cities have union contracts that include 'must' work permitted events. For instance, they have to protect KKK marches, even if they don't want to. These would be outside crowd control, Box Office, stadium parking and surrounding control (traffic) and other related to the operation of the stadium. However, the Chief is talking about the "Special Duty Officers" that would be hired direct from the team, and payrolled by the team, for instance, to guard the entrance to the stadium and the locker rooms for the players, and stand behind the benches in case some nut-job jumps onto the field. Those officers, as they are hired by the team, can't be 'forced' to work, but a lot of officers depend on the extra income, so I doubt this is any more then a grandstand by the Chief, at this point.

[Hawktawk]

There are at least two parts to the Police presence at a Professional Football game. I'm sure most cities have union contracts that include 'must' work permitted events. For instance, they have to protect KKK marches, even if they don't want to. These would be outside crowd control, Box Office, stadium parking and surrounding control (traffic) and other related to the operation of the stadium. However, the Chief is talking about the "Special Duty Officers" that would be hired direct from the team, and payrolled by the team, for instance, to guard the entrance to the stadium and the locker rooms for the players, and stand behind the benches in case some nut-job jumps onto the field. Those officers, as they are hired by the team, can't be 'forced' to work, but a lot of officers depend on the extra income, so I doubt this is any more then a grandstand by the Chief, at this point.

The fact that the officers "count on the income" of working a second job speaks volumes in and of itself.

And there is some guy talking about murderess sitting around on paid leave.

[RiverDog]

Police departments all over america are having problems staffing. Chicago, the ghastly bloodbath cannot find and afford the officers it needs to stem the violence. Who would want to police these hellholes anyway?It is as dangerous as Afganistan and a pretty much thankless job.Cops are charged with murder for shooting armed felons and hung out to dry without due process for political expediency.

And some SOB who wears pig socks and Castro shirts and disrespects America gets 12 million to ride the pine.

Its an Fd up world folks. That is all.

I'm in partial agreement. If Kaepernick truly wants police departments to rid themselves of rouge cops as he's said, then wearing the piggy socks is counter productive to that goal. If police departments are to be more picky with who they allow on their forces, then they need a larger pool of applicants from which to draw from. With the way the public and guys like Kaepernick have harpooned cops and generalized their criticism as much as they've done, who in their right mind would want to become a cop? But I get the impression that he'd rather complain about the problem than help find a solution.

But as dangerous as Afghanistan?

[c_hawkbob]

Collin's Mom:

Heidi Russo @Heidirn1
@Kaepernick7 The path less traveled doesn't need to be one of destruction. #beenthere #besmarter #berespectful
6:40 PM - 27 Aug 2016
142 142 Retweets 332 332 likes

Heidi Russo @Heidirn1
@Kaepernick7 There's ways to make change w/o disrespecting & bringing shame to the very country & family who afforded you so many blessings.
6:38 PM - 27 Aug 2016
1,500 1,500 Retweets 2,612 2,612 likes

[Hawktawk]

Exactly. He is disrespecting his parents who accepted a mixed race child into their family and raised him to be successful.
Hes as dumb and inconsiderate as Manziel,

Hes just destructive in a different way and actually affecting many more peoples lives negatively with his behavior.

[nlbmsportin]

Heidi Russo @Heidirn1
@Kaepernick7 The path less traveled doesn't need to be one of destruction. #beenthere #besmarter #berespectful
6:40 PM - 27 Aug 2016
142 142 Retweets 332 332 likes

Heidi Russo @Heidirn1
@Kaepernick7 There's ways to make change w/o disrespecting & bringing shame to the very country & family who afforded you so many blessings.
6:38 PM - 27 Aug 2016
1,500 1,500 Retweets 2,612 2,612 likes

I mean, it isn't like Kaepernick wants anything to do with her so I really don't see how this is supposed to be a significant statement. Her opinion means no more or less than the millions who already disagree with CK''s "methods". Not sure why she's being quoted.

Here are some quotes from those that disagree with Heidi just for the heck of it:

Don’t tell me you just disagree with the methods. You really mean to say you disagree with the cause. -Doug Baldwin Jr (@DougBaldwinJr)

When asked in an interview with NFL Total Access how he thinks other veterans and Americans should respond to Kaepernick’s actions, Boyer said,

“I would just listen. I would shut my mouth and just listen.”

For every Jerry Rice there's a Jim Brown. Drew Brees has an opinion, but so does Arian Foster.

It comes down to wanting to control the narrative and making things just blow over by drowning it in misdirection strategies.

I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” -Marin Luther King, Jr

How were protests against the draft any less "disrespectful" than sitting for the national anthem? Didn't those in WWII, WWI, the Civil War, etc get drafted and die for causes central to what make this country what it is? How dare Ali, disrespect those that had to deal with real racism.

[c_hawkbob]

I mean, it isn't like Kaepernick wants anything to do with her so I really don't see how this is supposed to be a significant statement. Her opinion means no more or less than the millions who already disagree with CK''s "methods". Not sure why she's being quoted.

Because she's his mother. No other reason, but I don't think another reason is necessary, whether he cares what she says or not, she's still his mom.

Despite what Doug says and what you evidently think it really IS possible to agree with his message but disagree with his method. It's not "drowning his message in misdirection strategies in hopes that they'll blow over" to be of the opinion that he's misdirecting his disrespect by aiming it at the country when his stated problem is with specific Police or Police Departments. There are too many people that have nothing whatsoever to do with under-trained officers or lack of accountability in incident reviews to aim his disrespect at the entire country.

And that's not all Boyer had to say, not by a long shot. Boyer was angry and offended at first but on the advice of his mom opened his mind to Collin's message rather than focusing on his method:

Even though my initial reaction to your protest was one of anger, I’m trying to listen to what you’re saying and why you’re doing it. When I told my mom about this article, she cautioned me that “the last thing our country needed right now was more hate.” As usual, she’s right.

There are already plenty people fighting fire with fire, and it’s just not helping anyone or anything. So I’m just going to keep listening, with an open mind.
I look forward to the day you’re inspired to once again stand during our national anthem. I’ll be standing right there next to you. Keep on trying … De Oppresso Liber.

I'm not hating on Collin and have already said that while I don't like how he's getting his message out it's infinitely preferable to other means of protest happening around the country right now and that it is WORKING!, that his actions have had the effect of making the situation the most talked about issue today, and that the dialog he has opened is a critical step in bringing about any real change.

I'm not ready to lionize him either though. I think his motivations are questionable (it's tough losing the spotlight) and there are other actions that trivialize (the pig socks) and are inconsistent with (wearing a Castro shirt, I'd like to see him pull this stunt in Cuba in the 60's) his message. I think he's a bit of a dick who was trying to be edgy and keep himself relevant and happened on an issue who's time is ripe and I think history is going to put him in the company of real heros of social change whether he deserves to be in their company or not.

At the beginning I said his sitting didn't bother me much and it still doesn't, but the conversation has evolved well beyond that now and I'm actually glad it has. it's a bit of a distraction from what's really important (FOOTBALL!) but I honestly hope it all does help to bring about some change, we need better trained police forces and they need greater accountability. It's just too bad people like Nate had to be disrespected in the first place to kick start the conversation.

[obiken]

1. He is not the Qb he was, so to use football as a platform for social protest comes off as a shield for his current bad play.
2. A multi millionaire crying about the system is like when Marylyn Monroe called all men hypocrites, or the fat kid blaming the candy store for a belly ache.
3. At the very least he needs to apologize for the Piggy socks, not all cops are pigs.
4. He needs to move on, he has made his point, lets get beyond it.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I'm actually debating this right now with my former residence director from college. I'm confused why the SC police boycott is being looked at as unjustified, yet Kaepernick is in the right. The socks are out of line. I don't see how it is okay to wear something like that which basically calls all cops pigs. Granted, he gave a clarification that he only meant the bad cops, but that wasn't until after it hit the media. The spotlight was fully on the stunt, and the damage was already done. Of course police officers got offended; they did in the same way that any other organization/group would if a broad negative stereotype was put out there for all the world to see. I don't understand why Kaepernick gets a pass for doing something like this; the socks were bad form and is doing nothing but dividing people on the issue further.

[RiverDog]

I'm anxious to hear what NLBM has to say about Kaepernick's piggy socks and his Fidel Castro tee shirt. As Cbob stated, Kaep is protesting mistreatment and repression in America yet he is embracing Castro's Cuba. If this behavior doesn't fit my "rebel without a cause" description, I don't know what does.

[nlbmsportin]

Because she's his mother. No other reason, but I don't think another reason is necessary, whether he cares what she says or not, she's still his mom.

His mother who gave him up for adoption in 1987. The mother he doesn't care what she says because she's not his mother in any social sense. You might as well quote Alex Boone since he has more to do with Kaepernick than his birth mother.

Despite what Doug says and what you evidently think it really IS possible to agree with his message but disagree with his method. It's not "drowning his message in misdirection strategies in hopes that they'll blow over" to be of the opinion that he's misdirecting his disrespect by aiming it at the country when his stated problem is with specific Police or Police Departments. There are too many people that have nothing whatsoever to do with under-trained officers or lack of accountability in incident reviews to aim his disrespect at the entire country.

Sitting for the national anthem is a statement that the country he loves is falling short of it's stated ideals in favor of a continued state of racial inequality.The police are given the authority by the state to discriminate against people of color in economically depressed areas. Law enforcement are shielded by the flag in the current climate of "pull the police out so BLM can come crawling JK JK JK".

How? The War on Drugs.

The War on Drugs with it's capricious disregard for the lives of young black men vs those of young white men who use drugs at similar rates. The system that once it labels someone a felon, it becomes legal to discriminate in regards to employment, housing, voting rights, and the ability to serve on a jury. This often leads to these people using illegal means and even violence to survive, which puts them back in prison. This system started with Nixon and that hasn't been taken away by the more liberal Obama administration. If anything the Clintons doubled down on really proving to working class white people that they can be "tough on crime" and put their boots on the throat of the menacing, young, black male (Super Predator). In order to keep the system alive and strong, don't make the mistakes of Jim Crow by making these laws explicitly based on race. Make the system color-blind and up to the discretion of law enforcement and prosecutors who make a living off of federal funding, civil forfeiture, and plea bargains. This isn't an issue of individual police officers or pockets of rouge police departments, but an issue that is incentivized at all levels of government because it's what the mostly older, whiter, and more suburban electorate wants.

But then what about those black voters who vote for Democrats who don't change the system? When given only the options of bad policing practices or no police they choose the former every time. The idea of a system that ruins the lives of suburban white kids for minor drug offenses at the same rate it does for inner city black kids isn't on the table and never will be. The much better alternative for our society which removes this oppressive system is exactly what we're calling for. Stop labeling us a "them" while at the same time declaring us in a post racial society. The opposition to our message typically ranges from dismissal of the complaints to being uncomfortable with any form of protest. There are people who fall somewhere in the middle of the spectrum, but this nuance isn't being displayed at nearly the frequency as the forceful backlash against ANY movements for social change.

I'm not ready to lionize him either though. I think his motivations are questionable (it's tough losing the spotlight) and there are other actions that trivialize (the pig socks) and are inconsistent with (wearing a Castro shirt, I'd like to see him pull this stunt in Cuba in the 60's) his message. I think he's a bit of a dick who was trying to be edgy and keep himself relevant and happened on an issue who's time is ripe and I think history is going to put him in the company of real heros of social change whether he deserves to be in their company or not.

I've already addressed the fact that his attire was indefensible. I also already stated that there's simply way too much revisionist history on those we consider the "heroes" of history. There are no perfect protests or protesters. To the extent that the most famous protests of the 60's were effective, they were also built on the graves of other protests that were fatally flawed, but got the movement going. For those that think the system works just fine, it's much easier to latch on the imperfections of the protest, than on the imperfections of the system they don't perceive to be unjust. This is one of my biggest frustrations, and is something I see in this forum just as readily as others.

it's a bit of a distraction from what's really important (FOOTBALL!) but I honestly hope it all does help to bring about some change, we need better trained police forces and they need greater accountability. It's just too bad people like Nate had to be disrespected in the first place to kick start the conversation.

Which is where we don't completely agree. If there was never another game of football played, but we had a country with true equality under the law I would be more than on board. Football is important in that without it he likely wouldn't have the platform, but the idea of having entertainment zombies that do nothing with their platform is a depressing thought. Sports isn't an escape from the world for me, it's a microcosm of it.

I'm anxious to hear what NLBM has to say about Kaepernick's piggy socks and his Fidel Castro tee shirt. As Cbob stated, Kaep is protesting mistreatment and repression in America yet he is embracing Castro's Cuba. If this behavior doesn't fit my "rebel without a cause" description, I don't know what does

Yeah I already addressed that. I'm not going to abandon Kapernick's protest because he isn't the model face of the protest. I already mentioned Mandela and Ali in regards to flawed protesters. It is fair to criticize Kapernick's other displays of protest as inconsistent, misplaced, and even hypocritical. It is not fair to use that as an excuse to further denigrate the idea that there are people suffering immensely that most of you will honestly never even hold a conversation with.

[savvyman]

http://adamzyglis.buffalonews.com/2016/09/03/colin-kaepernick/

[RiverDog]

Yeah I already addressed that. I'm not going to abandon Kapernick's protest because he isn't the model face of the protest. I already mentioned Mandela and Ali in regards to flawed protesters. It is fair to criticize Kapernick's other displays of protest as inconsistent, misplaced, and even hypocritical. It is not fair to use that as an excuse to further denigrate the idea that there are people suffering immensely that most of you will honestly never even hold a conversation with.

I'm not sure who you are talking about, but speaking for myself, I've never said that there wasn't "people suffering"...although I prefer to phrase it differently, more like recognizing that there is a problem. I wasn't prepared to say that in every case that it was race related. The "rough ride" in Baltimore involved a black cop, and the murder in South Carolina where a black suspect was shot in the back as he fled and where a black female police officer did not offer any kind of first aid and stood over the wounded victim like she was looking at some sort of game animal. But I have accepted the premise that there is a serious problem and that in many instances it is almost assuredly race related. I'd love to engage you in potential solutions or at least identify root causes whenever you're done making your problem statement.

CBob: "There are too many people that have nothing whatsoever to do with under-trained officers or lack of accountability in incident reviews to aim his disrespect at the entire country.

Precisely. That's the major gripe I have with Kaepernick's protests. They are non specific, painting all of us with the same brush stroke. He claims that his piggy socks are specifically targeted at those that hire rouge cops. Yea, right. Did he honestly think that the vast majority of police officers that are not involved in hiring and are not themselves rouge cops would interpret it that way? Additionally, a viable solution to the problem of rouge cops is to expand the pool of applicants of which police departments have to choose from. Do you think that his mockery is going to influence people, particularly minorities, to pursue a career in law enforcement? What rational person would want to become a cop if a large number of very visible professional athletes wore piggy socks in public? His protests are counter productive, making the problem worse instead of better. Or maybe, as I strongly suspect, he doesn't really care that much about BLM or rouge cops, that he's mainly P.O.ed because his career has gone into a tail spin so he's displacing his anger by lashing out at everyone else. An ego defense mechanism. Turn the focus away from football and into societal politics.

As far as his anthem protest, there's a lot of us that have a particular problem with at least one facet of American society: LBGT, abortion, right to life, minimum wage, the war in Iraq/Afghanistan, selling coal to China, save the whales, corporate greed. Suppose that everyone that had a particular grievance against this country refused to stand for the anthem? You'd have to have a roster to figure out who's protesting what.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... -skyrocket

Cashing in on his protest. Perhaps he will give the proceeds to groups helping struggling minorities.

[HumanCockroach]

So many posts about an irrelevant backup exercising his rights....

What's next? A 12 page thread about a player growing his hair? Not cutting his grass? Putting pickles on his sandwich? Using miracle whip instead of best foods?

Dude isn't worth this much hand wringing or ire for doing something that isn't a freedom, much less exercising one of them.

[Hawk Sista]

Agree or disagree w/ his tactics.... But we all agree he has a right to free speech. He chose to use this right to stand for those who are voiceless which has stirred a national debate to a degree our founding fathers could never have even imagined. #America


And sorry Bob, the woman who gave Colin up for adoption (no judgement of that decision) doesn't get to claim that he's shamed her family. He's not in her family. Talk about using a platform to get yourself noticed.

[nlbmsportin]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000695751/article/hot-item-colin-kaepernick-jersey-sales-skyrocket

Cashing in on his protest. Perhaps he will give the proceeds to groups helping struggling minorities.

Yes. That's exactly what he's doing. But I'm sure that's just for some nefarious reason too like his career's going down the drain so why not be charitable with his money.....wait....no there's someone in his ear telling him to be super PC that's it!

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/colin-kaepernick-vows-to-donate-all-jersey-sale-proceeds-to-the-community-090716

Agree or disagree w/ his tactics.... But we all agree he has a right to free speech. He chose to use this right to stand for those who are voiceless which has stirred a national debate to a degree our founding fathers could never have even imagined. #America

And sorry Bob, the woman who gave Colin up for adoption (no judgement of that decision) doesn't get to claim that he's shamed her family. He's not in her family. Talk about using a platform to get yourself noticed.

I read it as her saying he's shaming his adopted family. Which may be an even more ridiculous statement. Who are you to speak for his adopted parents? They are white Americans so they have to all think alike when it comes to social justice, right? It would be absurd for black people to have white allies who don't wrap themselves in their perception of the flag to shield against social change.





http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/24/sport/olympics-norman-black-power/

They all shamed their families. /s

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Not that he needs or is seeking my approval, but that's awesome that he is doing that.