Kaepernick

[Uppercut]

Usually when u protest you are good enough at your game to have an influence. His game did not do well last night either.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000691077/article/colin-kaepernick-explains-protest-of-national-anthem

[c_hawkbob]

Being ex military his right to do what he did is one of the principles we were defending. I don't like or respect him for it, but it doesn't bother me a great deal.

[NorthHawk]

I wonder if it's in part a way to poke his finger in mgmt's eye.
He wanted a trade earlier in the year, so maybe this is a continuation of his dislike of their front office.

[burrrton]

Being ex military his right to do what he did is one of the principles we were defending. I don't like or respect him for it, but it doesn't bother me a great deal.

This. His attitude reeks of dopey adolescence, but it's Free Speech 101.

[Hawktawk]

Another stupid move by a stupid person. Body by god, brain by Wal-mart. To think there was once a debate of RW vs this joke.

[SalmonBB]

Sure its his right. Also indicates to me he has no appreciation for what he has - much less why he has it - football or no football. And so, I don't like him; I consider him a Class A JackA$$. And that is my right.

GO SEAHAWKS!!!

[FolkCrusader]

While I agree that ultimately we have the right in this country to express our feelings by standing or not standing, for me it shows disrespect to not only your fellow countryman but to the people paying for your salary inside that stadium and watching at home. No audience, no 500 pairs of sports shoes, no body full of bad tats, no screwing groupies in your million dollar condo in Florida. Living and playing in this country has afforded you great opportunity and to some degree a stage where such things will be noticed (lets face it one of us could not stand for the anthem every day for the rest of our lives and probably the worst we would get is a dirty look) if that is what you want to say. There have been times I was disappointed in our country, but that has never made me want to disrespect the people of our country, and that is what he is doing.

[Zorn76]

I wonder if it's in part a way to poke his finger in mgmt's eye.
He wanted a trade earlier in the year, so maybe this is a continuation of his dislike of their front office.

This.

Lots of talk even before this happened that management is pushing for Gabby to win the starting job. I don't see Kaep as a guy making statements that involve anything beyond his own interests.

[RiverDog]

Sure its his right. Also indicates to me he has no appreciation for what he has - much less why he has it - football or no football. And so, I don't like him; I consider him a Class A JackA$$. And that is my right.

GO SEAHAWKS!!!

My sentiments exactly!

[obiken]

Being ex military his right to do what he did is one of the principles we were defending. I don't like or respect him for it, but it doesn't bother me a great deal.

You have the right to burn the American Flag, but your an idiot if you do!

[c_hawkbob]

Being ex military his right to do what he did is one of the principles we were defending. I don't like or respect him for it, but it doesn't bother me a great deal.

You have the right to burn the American Flag, but your an idiot if you do!

No, you're and ingrate and a punk if you do, but not necessarily stupid. One can have a brain and still be an a-hole.

[Rambo2014]

The best reason for not burning the American Flag is your ability to do so!

I also think Kap belongs with Hope Solo and the Swimmer guy

[obiken]

"No, you're and ingrate and a punk if you do, but not necessarily stupid. One can have a brain and still be an a-hole."

There is just no way I could ever do that C-bob. My dad taught me different.

[HumanCockroach]

Pretty big difference between approving of someone exercising their rights in a way that isn't liked, and accepting that we ALL would pay for not having those rights.

Not a fan of Kap, or how he chose to exercise his freedom, but a HUGE fan of having that freedom and what it entails. Most military people I know and have spoken with have a similar view. Those rights have been paid for a thousand times over. Agree or disagree, like or dislike, Kap's actions aren't anything but him exercising his freedoms, not pompous or conceited enough to tell another man HOW he should feel or act in his life or how he should choose to exercise those rights..

[Hawk Sista]

When I first learned of what he did, I thought it was a last ditch effort to shine the light back his way. Since then, I see from his other comments on race related issues that there is a sincerity in his actions I didn't think possible from him. Reading the racist and vitriolic responses across the nation kind of emphasize his point. Things like "be grateful for what you have, you effin N-word" are being splashed about the pages of social media. I stopped reading all the comments... They were so disgusting.

All of this to say he took a stand, in this case a seat, because to him & many people of color.... It feels like the land of the free is for some of us, not all of us. This is a conversation we should be able to have as a country if we are as great as we profess to be.

More than one thing can be true all at once... Many people bravely fought for the freedoms we have today. Those sacrifices should be remembered and appreciated. This truth doesn't mean that we are perfect or even that we live up to the principles captured in the national anthem & pledge of allegiance. Sometimes there isn't justice for all. And that sentiment can be true at the very same time that this is true... A lot of cops are great people who do brave and exemplary work.

These issues are complex and require us to live in the grey to comprehend it all. I see people running further and further to the poles rather than meeting in the middle. Even meeting in the middle infuriates the people clinging to their poles. I hope what CK did helps us move toward improved understanding.

[burrrton]

It feels like the land of the free is for some of us, not all of us.

Stop going by "feels" and point to someone for whom this country is not "free" based on the color of their skin. "There are racists in this country" is a meaningless banality.

This is a conversation we should be able to have as a country if we are as great as we profess to be.

That you think we haven't *had* this conversation is depressing. It's an exercise in scab-picking now.

[Uppercut]

Guess we will see what the O Line of the Niners feel about it next time Kap is in!

[FolkCrusader]

Stop going by "feels" and point to someone for whom this country is not "free" based on the color of their skin. "There are racists in this country" is a meaningless banality.

I understand your desire for data, but when I read something like this I think to myself either "he has no experience being the 'other' in a crowd" or "he completely lacks empathy." There are many, many people in this country that feel this is an issue. I have no doubt some may be overstating things or relying on feelings. But they are not all liars and over-staters. People have real experiences that affect their lives and none of us should be so dismissive of another's feelings - even if your desire is for more concrete data.

I think Sista may have some experience with these types of things and I find her opinion on them valuable, as I do yours.

[Hawk Sista]

Bingo, Folk Crusader - bingo. Thank you.

Yeah, I have felt discriminated against on countless occasions. And wether or not people agree with my lifestyle (I always think it's funny when people say that...I don't agree w/ it, but it's your life) one can't deny that in my life, I haven't been able to enjoy the same freedoms as my heterosexual counterparts. And please, don't anyone dare parse the definition of free to me.

Yes Burrrton, we have discussed the topic nationally. My point is that very few are willing to let go of deeply held beliefs and feelings and really LISTEN and learn. It depresses me that you think the questions have been asked and answered. If systemic racism or inequality are banal to you - I think we are all done on this subject.

[burrrton]

I'm not asking for data, Folk, just an example that demonstrates this overwhelming systemic oppression of minorities by the United States in 2016.

Pointing to some backwards-@ss bigot that called someone names on the internet doesn't do it.

Sis, if there are questions you feel haven't been asked, feel free to give an example of that, too. I don't doubt that you've felt discrimination on a personal level- I'm just not seeing how that translates to a systemic problem unique to this country.

And please, don't anyone dare parse the definition of free to me.

If you're claiming you're not as "free" as someone else, and you don't just want to keep complaining about it, don't we all need to understand what you're referring to if we're to do something about it??

[edit- for the record, I think the SSM issue, which I support, is an example you could have used until recently]

[RiverDog]

I don't necessarily disagree with CK's objections, but I do disagree with the manner in which he's choosing to express those objections. It's like going after the cheerleaders when the head coach is the one that's mostly responsible for your team's predicament.

[Uppercut]

Hers how it will go down!

Kap knows he is toast just because of his play and maybe headed for backup in Cleveland

So make a BLM protest of the worst kind get the media talking

Then when you get cut sue the Niners and the league for more than you contract

[burrrton]

I don't necessarily disagree with CK's objections

As phrased, how can you not? What precisely is he objecting to? See if you can describe it without using cliches or some form of the word "feel"...

[Hawk Sista]

Xx

[savvyman]

Looks like his stance will result in a few more Jersey Sales:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3762239/You-never-play-NFL-Canada-49ers-fans-burn-Kaepernick-jerseys-national-anthem-114million-sport-star-refused-stand-protest-black-oppression.html

[RiverDog]

As phrased, how can you not? What precisely is he objecting to? See if you can describe it without using cliches or some form of the word "feel"...

I said I don't "necessarily" disagree with his objections. That also means that I don't necessarily agree with them, too. It sort of depends on exactly what CK is P.O.ed about regarding the treatment of blacks and minorities. If he's P.O.ed about the police shootings of unarmed blacks, then I can understand his outrage.

But I absolutely disagree with the way he is showing his outrage. By refusing to stand for the National Anthem, he's protesting what that flag represents, ie our entire country and philosophy, and what so many millions given their lives for over the past 2.5 centuries. He's painting us all as racists with one large brush stroke.

Outside the use of the term "one large brush stroke", I think I've met your requirement that I described it without using any clichés or some form of the word "feel".

[NorthHawk]

But I absolutely disagree with the way he is showing his outrage. By refusing to stand for the National Anthem, he's protesting what that flag represents, ie our entire country and philosophy, and what so many millions given their lives for over the past 2.5 centuries. He's painting us all as racists with one large brush stroke.

Isn't he doing exactly what the flag represents?
Isn't the country and philosophy built upon freedoms including and maybe most importantly the freedom of speech or non violent action?
I would think that the founders would be pleased that some 240 years after their efforts, this most basic of freedoms still exists even if it is perceived by some as offensive.
After all, if someone is coerced, cowed, forced, or otherwise pressured into conforming even though they disagree with something, are they truly free?
Maybe he should be celebrated for exercising this most basic of freedoms because it's what, like you said "so many millions gave their lives for over the past 2.5 centuries".

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I can in know way understand the struggles Kaepernick, people of color, and LGBT have dealt with and continue to deal with. I am also in agreement that he has every right to not stand for the National Anthem of the United States of America. I do question is timing and motive, and I also disagree with his blanket approach.

Why has he waited until now? He wasn't taking this stand when he entered the limelight as the league's next big thing; he was at the top of his game in 2012 and 2013 and not a word out of him about any of this. The injustices he is protested were just as prevalent then as now, which leads me to motive. He's quickly turning into a has-been that can't even come close the success of just a few years ago. This feels like a last gasp for PR before he's done, and it makes it very hard to take his new-found concern for the struggle of black America (perhaps he's always had it, but he never attempted to bring it to light until now).

And to protest the entire country? Not making much sense to me there. This country is one of, if not the most, free countries on Earth, but racist and prejudicial people exist and will continue to exist regardless of what country you live. I don't live this way and neither do millions of others in this country.

His spotlight is fading. Will he stick to this when the light is completely gone? Even without a job in the NFL, he'll still have more wealth than the vast majority of citizens in this country, so he has resources to work for the change he seeks. Or will he stick to it if he revives his career and returns to 2012/2013 form and has much more to lose? He's stated he has plans for further action. It will be interesting to see if and how he follows through.

[NorthHawk]

I think there is an element of trying to embarrass or maybe show up the Niners FO, but I have nothing to base it on other than a suspicion.
Perhaps his motives are pure, but I doubt it. There might be some type of mix with a social cause covering his chance to get a dig at their FO.

[Hawk Sista]

I hear your points, Mack Strong is my hero (mine too), but I think the timing is the heat being turned up on the issue. I had the same first thought that you did. Who knows?? maybe there is something to it.

Mike Salk of all people captured my sentiments on this. A) He has the right to stay seated. B) It is not how I would go about it. C) The way he did it actually sets his antagonists up a juicy plate of anti-patriotism...which is taking his point off message (@ least I think). It surprises me so little - all the people who say "then get the eff out" if you don't like it.

[Uppercut]

I can see this catching on. I expect Bennett to be one of the sitters soon followed by others.

[burrrton]

I can see this catching on. I expect Bennett to be one of the sitters soon followed by others.

LOL. I don't think Bennett is stupid enough to give the entire USA the middle finger.

[obiken]

IF this is a double post forgive me. However, what is going to happen is the NFL is just going to make it a rule like in the NBA, that all players stand for the N. A. period. They are a corporation folks, they don't need this crap: from fans, owners, and most of all sponsors. Just my opinion.

[c_hawkbob]

There is no such rule in place now Obi, but I agree there is likely to be one sooner or later (sooner if the practice of sitting the anthem out spreads, and I can't see how it wont).

[burrrton]

sooner if the practice of sitting the anthem out spreads, and I can't see how it wont

I can**- it's misplaced anger. Whatever it is they're actually upset about, even if valid, it's not an inherent issue with the USA, and telling the USA to fck itself is not even the beginning of a solution, and in fact, I think it's probably almost, but not quite, as counterproductive as beating up random white guys and torching small businesses.

**I won't be surprised if more do it, though- virtue signaling is all the rage these days.

[Hawktawk]

I was listening to NFL network yesterday and this topic dominated. I listened to African American after African American rip Kap. Granted many were ex military.
It was discussed that among other things it show Kaps head sure isn't into football. Like all the tats and the beats and sideways hat at pressers he just isn't a leader.


I fully respect any man or woman's right to protest whatever. It should not happen on the sidelines of an NFL stadium in a way that immediately disrespects the people who gave this mediocre pos a chance to earn 19 million sitting on the pine. Many of whom are present on the field to guarantee his security and that of the fans. And I'm watching on TV every week or dropping 2 K to watch the opener and I don't want to hear about any political horses@#T.What about my rights to be entertained, my escape from all the BS on every other channel nonstop.

think its a ploy much like Micheal Sam. He cant play anymore so it is about something bigger, some cause.
He's an opportunist and the incredibly shrinking man, another NFL Darwin award winner to boot.
As my nephew said, hes just rehearsing for the regular season.

[NorthHawk]

If nobody said anything it would go away, so those that are upset are giving it more exposure than it otherwise might.
Freedom given by the constitution includes being able to show or state your ignorance (or intelligence) in a peaceful manner and trying to limit that is a dangerous precedent.
Have pride you live in a country that permits this type of action. There are far too many that don't.

[kalibane]

Going to Respond to you Mack because you ask some questions that actually have answers.

I do question is timing and motive, and I also disagree with his blanket approach.

Why has he waited until now? He wasn't taking this stand when he entered the limelight as the league's next big thing; he was at the top of his game in 2012 and 2013 and not a word out of him about any of this. The injustices he is protested were just as prevalent then as now, which leads me to motive. He's quickly turning into a has-been that can't even come close the success of just a few years ago. This feels like a last gasp for PR before he's done, and it makes it very hard to take his new-found concern for the struggle of black America (perhaps he's always had it, but he never attempted to bring it to light until now).

This is a popular way to explain this away. But I think if you do some research you'll find this does not appear to be a publicity thing. First... Kaepernick was at his absolute height of his powers during the 2012 season when he was 24 years old fresh out of college. Even though these issues have been complaints for decades. The BLM movement didn't start to become a national movement until 2014. It's 2016 now and he's 28 the typical age when men really start to mature and come into their own. It makes perfect sense that he would be more interested in social issues now then he was when he first came into the league. Furthermore, if you look at his twitter timeline and compare 4 years ago to the last year or so there is a stark difference. 4 years ago he was oiling up his body and being a self absorbed bro. Over the last year or so almost everything he's tweeted has been about social an political issues. Kaepernick has grown up. Maybe not in the way that some people would have liked him to but the evidence doesn't appear to be something he just came up with to get publicity. Also the idea that if you haven't always been a champion for the cause then you can never be champion for a cause is problematic. Most people were against gay marriage as recently as 8 years ago. People learn and they evolve. Also Kaepernick didn't go out of his way to make this a spectacle. He sat for three games. It was only noticed in the third. And he didn't say anything about it until a reporter asked him about it.

And to protest the entire country? Not making much sense to me there. This country is one of, if not the most, free countries on Earth, but racist and prejudicial people exist and will continue to exist regardless of what country you live. I don't live this way and neither do millions of others in this country.

Regarding the issue he has problems with you can point to examples of the problem in Seattle, San Francisco, LA, New York, Texas, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Miami, Alabama, Baltimore, Chicago. It's happening all over the country and the country isn't doing anything about it. And even if it's one of the most free countries in the world does that mean he shouldn't protest to make it freer?

His spotlight is fading. Will he stick to this when the light is completely gone? Even without a job in the NFL, he'll still have more wealth than the vast majority of citizens in this country, so he has resources to work for the change he seeks. Or will he stick to it if he revives his career and returns to 2012/2013 form and has much more to lose? He's stated he has plans for further action. It will be interesting to see if and how he follows through.

Which is exactly why he has more to lose. You're thinking about this in the wrong way. If he made good on Ron Jaworski's ridiculous prediction and became one of the greatest QBs ever he could get away with this much easier. Right now he's making it really easy for the 49ers to release him and really hard for another team to justify picking him up. This could effectively end his career.

Here is the problem I have with this and all the people criticizing him. Most of them are hypocrites. At any given sporting event where the national anthem is played, there are literally thousands of people in the stands talking, playing on their phones, standing in line for snacks, using that as an opportunity to go to the bathroom. No one ever has a problem with it. At least Kaepernick has a reason (whether you agree or not).

We claim that in America people should stand up on principle and fight for what they believe in, especially those who are in a position financially. Now a guy does it and everyone rips him because they don't agree with why he does it. There is a member of this forum who couldn't stop praising the Bundy's and other militia men who took up arms, seized a federal park and engaged in an armed standoff with the Federal Government. If that's not treason, it's as close to treason as you can get and that member of this forum praised them for fighting for their rights under the constitution. Now that same person is ripping Colin Kaepernick for not standing for the Anthem.

Back in 2012, we all compared Russell Wilson to Colin Kaepernick. We said He's no where near Wilson. Wilson is involved with the community. He cares about things. All Colin cares about is looking cool and making money. Now he cares about something and is trying to do something about it but people want him to shut up because they don't agree with what he cares about.

You may not like what he did. But this is nothing different than when Ali refused to be drafted. Nothing different than when John Carlos and Tommie Smith put on a black glove and raised their fist at the 68 Olympics. People said all the same things (and worse) that they are saying about Kaepernick now. Ali was sent to prison. John Carlos and Tommie Smith were stripped of their medals and ostracized from society. Because those people in the 60's felt the same way that people feel now, "Racism isn't a problem". Vietnam Vets burned the flag en masse to protest a flag burning amendment, because that's not what they fought for. We look back and we say, "now THOSE were great Americans, but Kaep is a punk.". And they do it with no sense of irony.

[nlbmsportin]

You may not like what he did. But this is nothing different than when Ali refused to be drafted. Nothing different than when John Carlos and Tommie Smith put on a black glove and raised their fist at the 68 Olympics. People said all the same things (and worse) that they are saying about Kaepernick now. Ali was sent to prison. John Carlos and Tommie Smith were stripped of their medals and ostracized from society. Because those people in the 60's felt the same way that people feel now, "Racism isn't a problem". Vietnam Vets burned the flag en masse to protest a flag burning amendment, because that's not what they fought for. We look back and we say, "now THOSE were great Americans, but Kaep is a punk.". And they do it with no sense of irony.

No but those were different you see, because those people had legitimate gripes. You know, the same way Civil Rights activists have always had once we whitewash the history a few decades later. Let's just ignore the backlash as symptoms of long gone times. We're all grown up now. /s

[Hawktawk]

Vestiges of racism will always exist from every ethnicity INCLUDING BLACKS BIG TIME but on the balance it isn't like this is Rosa Parks or Selma for chrissakes.. America elected and reelected a pretty lousy black president IMO and he cant stop inciting racial tension anyway. It isn't 1968.

Now some idiot felon can be actually packing while refusing to obey orders like Louisiana and Milwaukee and a cop still cant shoot him. That's defending anarchy, not protesting police brutality.

Who is protesting the dozen or so slain police officers in the last couple of months???? Several were black as well.Those lives matter more to me than some total waste of life committing suicide by cop or troublemakers looting and rioting.

BLM and Colin Krappyprick can kiss me where the sun don't shine which is my big white behind.

Stand your ass up Kap or GET THE HELL OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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