RW has a sprained MCL.

[RiverDog]

That's the question, isn't it?
Is Boykin 90% of a healthy Wilson?
Is he 50%?
I don't know, but I do know that Wilson at 75% is as good as most starting QBs in the league.
Like you said above, we don't really know how hobbled Wilson is and my guess of 75% considering he is practicing with the 1st team as usual, is a pretty high bar for Boykin to better, for him to replace Wilson as the starter.

It also depends on the team they're facing. If it's a team that's heavy on defense and light on offense, like the Rams, then the bar for Boykin starting would be much higher
. But if you're playing a team like the Saints that has an iffy defense but an offense that is sure to put up 25 against any defense no matter how good, you might want to go with Boykin.

[obiken]

JJ Watt just had season ending back surgery, he wanted to play, now he is done. IF I seem fanatical on this Its just I do not want this for our guy. However, PC said he will play, so he plays. Nate Silver 538.com says we have a 55% chance of winning. We can all agree the bye couldn't have come at a better time!

[HumanCockroach]

JJ Watt just had season ending back surgery, he wanted to play, now he is done.

This has something to do with what's being discussed in what way?

Bridgewater wanted to practice, now he's done. I don't want my players to practice.

RGIII blew out his knee on a grass field now he's done. I don't want my players to play on grass..

AP blew out his knee on a dive. No Seahawks back should ever run a dive ever again..

Insert whatever injury you want. Pretty soon, football is also done.

Maybe another sport would be better for your health. Perhaps table tennis, or golf?

[burrrton]

JJ Watt just had season ending back surgery, he wanted to play, now he is done.

I keep saying this, but I'll say it again: a Grade 1 MCL sprain, properly braced, is nothing like playing with spinal stenosis or a bulged disc or any of the 2.6 million other problems that can afflict an athlete.

The issue is whether it slows him down enough to be worth sitting him over, not whether it increases the risk of further injury.

Injuries like sprained ankles, back problems, and such, are impossible to mitigate away- an element of the 'injuring movement' is required to function properly (ankles *have* to move in/out/up/down/sideways/etc, the spine *has* to flex/extend a huge amount, etc)- an MCL is *not* required to flex to any noticeable degree in normal motion, and bracing can virtually eliminate the pressure placed on it.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I keep saying this, but I'll say it again: a Grade 1 MCL sprain, properly braced, is nothing like playing with spinal stenosis or a bulged disc or any of the 2.6 million other problems that can afflict an athlete.

The issue is whether it slows him down enough to be worth sitting him over, not whether it increases the risk of further injury.

Injuries like sprained ankles, back problems, and such, are impossible to mitigate away- an element of the 'injuring movement' is required to function properly (ankles *have* to move in/out/up/down/sideways/etc, the spine *has* to flex/extend a huge amount, etc)- an MCL is *not* required to flex to any noticeable degree in normal motion, and bracing can virtually eliminate the pressure placed on it.

Good information, burrrton, especially for those of us not as educated on degrees of injuries. I think everybody is on the same page with this one; keep him out if it is detrimental to him or the team; otherwise, put him in. Everything points to the latter.

[Hawktawk]

As a guy who has still never missed a practice and until last Sunday never missed a PLAY!!! due to injury Russ has earned the right to strap on the hardhat and go to work if he feels up to it, period.


I agree with the sentiment that injuries are unpreventable and unpredictable. Curt Warner blew his knee making a cut, nobody touched him. Gronk broke an arm blocking on an extra point. Sherman got hurt by friendly fire from Kam Bam in the NFC title game.
Its a crapshoot. I'm just glad our guy is well conditioned and tough enough to play through it.

I want 3-1 at the break and he gives us the best chance by far unless hes a statue.

[burrrton]

Good information, burrrton, especially for those of us not as educated on degrees of injuries.

Glad to help. Reading back over my post, though, I want to make it clear I don't mean to imply there's *zero* risk of injury- just that it would take a perfect storm of circumstances for the protection the brace provides his MCL to be defeated.

We don't want RW immobile and taking shots because of it, but with regard to the MCL, the risk of "injuring it further" is much, much different (and again, assuming all the information we've been told is accurate).

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

All good; I know there's not zero risk. I agree with Hawktawk that Wilson has earned a say in whether or not he comfortable playing with an injury. I just hope he listens to medical advice to sit out when it really is to his detriment to go ahead and play.

[NorthHawk]

The best players always want to play regardless of injury, so it will be difficult for us to know what's really going on.
Hoping he does what the doctors suggest is all we can really do.

[Jjones84]

I know its different, but not much. I had a grade 2 sprain, which is actually slightly torn, and was back to work hanging sheetrock and climbing 15 feet straight up on scaffolding a couple days later. It happened on friday, so had weekend off already. I'm far from gumby like russ.
A bunch of players and coaches said today that he is moving better than last week, so it sounds like the ankle has healed. It seems the ankle was the worse injury. Let's just hope and or pray that he doesn't get hurt further.

But we also shouldn't compare this to the rgIII injury. He was playing on a grade 3, not grade 1 like russ. It was likely that RGIII was playing on a mostly torn mcl. Mcl "sprain" is a bit of a misnomer. When you get above grade 1, there is likely slight tearing, but not always. This is how my doctor explained it to me, or how I perceived it anyway.

I think he will be good. He is learning he needs to be smarter, and throw the ball away. This line is improving greatly, and ifedi will be an instant upgrade. I hate to say, but I think russ has been at fault for as many sacks as the line has. He is just learning to trust these guys.

We should be excited. It looks like we have our interior line established for years to come. I am not going to write Gilliam and sowell off either. Gilliam has serious potential, he improves every week. He was statistically one of the most improved linemen last year. Sowell is improving as well. Talk about trial by fire. The speed in which he gets off the ball is impressive. It looks like he is jumping, but he is just quick. The good news, this is the last of the elite d lines we will see for a while. This line will dominate avg. To below avg. D lines the rest of the year. Go Hawks.

[RiverDog]

I know its different, but not much. I had a grade 2 sprain, which is actually slightly torn, and was back to work hanging sheetrock and climbing 15 feet straight up on scaffolding a couple days later. It happened on friday, so had weekend off already. I'm far from gumby like russ.
A bunch of players and coaches said today that he is moving better than last week, so it sounds like the ankle has healed. It seems the ankle was the worse injury. Let's just hope and or pray that he doesn't get hurt further.

But we also shouldn't compare this to the rgIII injury. He was playing on a grade 3, not grade 1 like russ. It was likely that RGIII was playing on a mostly torn mcl. Mcl "sprain" is a bit of a misnomer. When you get above grade 1, there is likely slight tearing, but not always. This is how my doctor explained it to me, or how I perceived it anyway.

I think he will be good. He is learning he needs to be smarter, and throw the ball away. This line is improving greatly, and ifedi will be an instant upgrade. I hate to say, but I think russ has been at fault for as many sacks as the line has. He is just learning to trust these guys.

We should be excited. It looks like we have our interior line established for years to come. I am not going to write Gilliam and sowell off either. Gilliam has serious potential, he improves every week. He was statistically one of the most improved linemen last year. Sowell is improving as well. Talk about trial by fire. The speed in which he gets off the ball is impressive. It looks like he is jumping, but he is just quick. The good news, this is the last of the elite d lines we will see for a while. This line will dominate avg. To below avg. D lines the rest of the year. Go Hawks.

Nice post, Jonsey!

I agree with you and burrton regarding the differing risks associated with different injuries to different body parts. If Russell's MCL sprain caused him a greater risk of a season ending or career ending injury, then I'd be on obi's side. But from the sounds of it, he's no more at risk of a season/career ending injury playing with the injury as without, in which case the decision comes down to whether or not his limited mobility still gives us the best chance to win.

[HumanCockroach]

Anyone still think he should have sat?

Really solid, almost exceptional, game by Wilson.

[obiken]

Anyone still think he should have sat?

Really solid, almost exceptional, game by Wilson.

You da Man Human! I was WRONG. GE was awesome today. He took on one of the best DT in the league and kept him out!

RW did what he always does, the ultimate game manager! I had this as a loss!! Makes up for the Ram loss.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Yes, he should have sat....if it was truly too risky for his health to play. After all the info made available by the end of the week, the majority of this board was at ease with him playing today.

Very good game from Russell. I've got a couple of friends who didn't start him in fantasy that are going to give me an earful.

[Hawktawk]

I knew he would play and I figured he gave us the best chance but I didn't expect this type of a road to canton performance. I cannot get over how tough the man is and then his arm which is truly magnificent when he's on like today. And hey everybody who was not on board with graham raise your hand. Then slap yourself .

It's truly frightening the potential of this offense when Russ gets 2 weeks to heal and then Rawls. They look like a championship type team again.

[monkey]

It's truly frightening the potential of this offense when Russ gets 2 weeks to heal and then Rawls. They look like a championship type team again.

This ^^^
Ayone who was upset about trading for Graham should probably re-watch this game. In fact, re-watch the last two games.
When Graham is on, he's as dominant as any offensive player in the league, including Gronk.
He's the big body receiver that Pete has wanted since taking over.
We now have one of the scariest receiving threats of any team in the game, with Baldwin, who has become nearly uncoverable, with Lockett whose speed and incredible route running makes him one off the best young receivers alive, Graham, who is LITERALLY never covered (like Gronk) and all the role players we have as well, including now, CJ Spiller.

it's crazy how good this offense can become.
As good as this defense is, and is playing right now, this offense may be on the verge of becoming every bit as as good. I really don't see how anyone can see this team and NOT think that we're the most talented roster int he NFL, by far.
Cardinals? HAHAHA give me a break. Talk about overrated! All those clowns picking the Cards to win the West are in for some crow.

BTW, remember me going on and on about how Wilson was going to win the MVP this year?
Like I said.

[Jjones84]

I really have never understood why people thought he was playing poorly last year before the injury. The two touchdowns was kind of a head scratcher, for what ever reason it just wasn't there. But through 12 games, he had 602 yds, good for second on the team. Over 16 games, that is 875 yds. When he went down, they were in the process of transforming the offense into the high powered o that was so effective today. I think it would be safe to assume that jimmy would have been a huge part that offense down the stretch, so he probably would have had more than the projected 875 yds. But even if he did end up around 875, that would have been good considering were a run first offense with a thousand yd wr in adb. The only way he failed last year is if you compare his totals to when he was at NO. But they have had the highest powered offense in the league, yardage wise, since brees took over qb. He has more 5000 yd seasons than the no. 2 and 3 qbs on the list combined.
His ydg at new orleans was:
2010- 356
2011- 1310
2012- 982
2013- 1215
2014- 889.

So really, not that far off. I think him and Doug have a real chance to both go for over 1000 this year. Wouldn't that be awesome, two seahawk pass catchers over a thousand in the same season? I don't think it has ever happened, has it? What would be really cool is to get a thousand yd rusher on top of it too.

I think the reason why the media labeled the move a bust last year was because of the same ol reason. One person wrote an article about it, then the rest of the media picked it up and ran with it. Then the next thing you know, it is the national narrative. Pete kept trying to tell them, this isn't new orleans, you can't base his success here on his prior success there. I for one hope he is here for years to come. Maybe even a second contract if all works out that way.

[obiken]

I really have never understood why people thought he was playing poorly last year before the injury. The two touchdowns was kind of a head scratcher, for what ever reason it just wasn't there. But through 12 games, he had 602 yds, good for second on the team. Over 16 games, that is 875 yds. When he went down, they were in the process of transforming the offense into the high powered o that was so effective today. I think it would be safe to assume that jimmy would have been a huge part that offense down the stretch, so he probably would have had more than the projected 875 yds. But even if he did end up around 875, that would have been good considering were a run first offense with a thousand yd wr in adb. The only way he failed last year is if you compare his totals to when he was at NO. But they have had the highest powered offense in the league, yardage wise, since brees took over qb. He has more 5000 yd seasons than the no. 2 and 3 qbs on the list combined.
His ydg at new orleans was:
2010- 356
2011- 1310
2012- 982
2013- 1215
2014- 889.

So really, not that far off. I think him and Doug have a real chance to both go for over 1000 this year. Wouldn't that be awesome, two seahawk pass catchers over a thousand in the same season? I don't think it has ever happened, has it? What would be really cool is to get a thousand yd rusher on top of it too.

I think the reason why the media labeled the move a bust last year was because of the same ol reason. One person wrote an article about it, then the rest of the media picked it up and ran with it. Then the next thing you know, it is the national narrative. Pete kept trying to tell them, this isn't new orleans, you can't base his success here on his prior success there. I for one hope he is here for years to come. Maybe even a second contract if all works out that way.

It was a great trade with great upside. Was I for it? NO. I stand by that. Having Max Unger all last year gives me the willies, we lost the first rounder, who knows what JS and PC could have found with that. I love Graham, the good side of the deal is finally starting to pay off, but dont lose sight of what we had to pay.

[HumanCockroach]

I was ok with the trade, and defended the move. That said, I was disappointed in how it was playing out last season, and was vocal about it. That had zero to do with Graham or the move, and everything to do with either Bevells or perhaps Wilson's insistence on force feeding Graham. I LOVE Graham in this offense, so long as it's "organic", or within the flow of the offense ( ie spreading the ball around. Allowing guys like Baldwin, Lockett, Kearse and Richardson to be involved and make plays as well).

IMHO teams with a singular focal point are easy to plan for and shut down. Its teams that are multifaceted that are impossible to completely shut down. Graham in the last few games of last season, and so far this year is a cog in the machine ( granted a big cog) as opposed to the only part. ( much like Harvin was prior to jettisoning him).

It sometimes seems like Bevell ( or possibly Wilson) falls in love with their new toy, forgetting all others ( or at least to begin last season, and with Harvin). I don't think it was coincidence that the offense took off two years in a row once Graham was hurt and Harvin was dumped.... So far this season, it doesn't look as though that will be the case.

[NorthHawk]

IMHO teams with a singular focal point are easy to plan for and shut down. Its teams that are multifaceted that are impossible to completely shut down. Graham in the last few games of last season, and so far this year is a cog in the machine ( granted a big cog) as opposed to the only part. ( much like Harvin was prior to jettisoning him).

Belichick has said his philosophy is to find out what a team does well, then stop it.
It's an easy concept to understand, but difficult to consistently accomplish for most teams. However if a team is not good at some factor but continually goes to it the job is much easier and I think that's the trap we got into with Harvin and Graham early in their tenure.

[RiverDog]

Anyone still think he should have sat?

Really solid, almost exceptional, game by Wilson.

There were two questions regarding playing Russell last Sunday: (1) What is the risk to his long term health if he were to play, and (2) does playing him with his limited mobility still give us the best chance to win?

Question 2 is a resounding yes. Given his physical condition, that was one of Russell's greatest single performances since he became a Hawk.

But we really don't know what the answer is, or was, to #1. I would have to think that it was yes, but I'm only guessing that our brain trust would not roll the dice with their franchise quarterback by exposing him to an increased risk of a serious injury.

I'm glad that the debate is now water under the bridge. The bye is coming at a great time as it's going to give him 2 full weeks to heal up before we take on the suddenly improved Falcons.

[Hawktawk]

Russell Wilson has numerous NFL records in his pocket already. He's indisputably the best QB in franchise history, certainly the toughest. And he is a HOF player in the making.
He hadn't missed a game or a PRACTICE, FULL participation after a high ankle sprain and MCL sprain. I don't give a damn if Prisco wants to give the man his due.
The Hawks had better and they did. Russ has earned the right to make the call. I trust in Russ.

Russ is going to Canton in 12 to 15 years. He will have at least one more Lombardi and own every conceivable record for a dual threat QB. And he might even get Favre's consecutive start record.

[Hawktawk]

I was ok with the trade, and defended the move. That said, I was disappointed in how it was playing out last season, and was vocal about it. That had zero to do with Graham or the move, and everything to do with either Bevells or perhaps Wilson's insistence on force feeding Graham. I LOVE Graham in this offense, so long as it's "organic", or within the flow of the offense ( ie spreading the ball around. Allowing guys like Baldwin, Lockett, Kearse and Richardson to be involved and make plays as well).

IMHO teams with a singular focal point are easy to plan for and shut down. Its teams that are multifaceted that are impossible to completely shut down. Graham in the last few games of last season, and so far this year is a cog in the machine ( granted a big cog) as opposed to the only part. ( much like Harvin was prior to jettisoning him).

It sometimes seems like Bevell ( or possibly Wilson) falls in love with their new toy, forgetting all others ( or at least to begin last season, and with Harvin). I don't think it was coincidence that the offense took off two years in a row once Graham was hurt and Harvin was dumped.... So far this season, it doesn't look as though that will be the case.

HC don't you think Bevell was mostly to blame for pressuring Wilson to target the new acquisitions? MOF part of Harvins beef with RW was his refusal to target him. The team went on a tear without him. Harvin had one moment, one 60 minutes of electric plays on the biggest stage that made it all worth it.


I always saw Graham differently. I couldn't believe we got him. The offense was just struggling early. The center couldn't even snap the ball much less make line calls or block the first 5 weeks. But some people forget Graham had a good game vs Carolina and was going off like last Sunday vs Pittsburgh when his freak injury occurred. That would have been another spectacular TD and his 7th or 8th catch of the game.

He is head and shoulders literally and figuratively the best TE we have ever had and a likely comeback player of the year award candidate.

[Jjones84]

Not only the best tight end we have had, but is on the level of Tony Gonzalez and gronk in terms of skill and threat. When used correctly, as he is now, he is the second worse matchup nightmare in the league. He maybe tied with gronk for that honor, imo. He was on a first ballot hall of fame pace with the saints, and looks like he is picking up where he left off. The main knock, other than blocking, was he was perceived to be soft. Well, he took on the toughness of this team right off the bat. He is even a much improved blocker. He was a finesse player on a finesse offense with saints. He is a down and dirty dawg in this offense. I hope we have two 1000 yd wrs this year, him and adb.

[NorthHawk]

I'd rather not see Graham block outside of the occasional chip on a DE or OLB. He's simply not a great blocker and his forte is catching passes even when seemingly covered.
Keep him away from the melee along the line I say, and get him into a little space where he can be most effective for us.

[HumanCockroach]

HT I personally believe it was Bevell, that said, I have no way of knowing, and ultimately it's Russell that pulls the trigger on those throws, he doesn't have to throw the ball to the primary receiver on 98% of the playcalls.( again I understand why Wilson would throw to the primary read if that read is named Graham or even Harvin at the time).

[monkey]

That had zero to do with Graham or the move, and everything to do with either Bevells or perhaps Wilson's insistence on force feeding Graham. I LOVE Graham in this offense, so long as it's "organic", or within the flow of the offense ( ie spreading the ball around. Allowing guys like Baldwin, Lockett, Kearse and Richardson to be involved and make plays as well).

This ^^^
Couldn't agree more. Said the same thing.
I loved the Graham move, even after he got hurt, I kept saying that it always takes guys about a year to get fully on the same page with their new team, and it takes the coaches time to figure out ho to really use them as well.
Here we are now in year two, and as I expected, Graham and Wilson are connecting, and Bevell has evidently, figured out how to use him, which is, as you said HC, ORGANICALLY. His trying to force feed Graham last year, was just as stupid as his trying to force feed Percy Harvin was.