O - Line performing drastically better than 2015 group

[HumanCockroach]

http://sea.247sports.com/Bolt/Seahawks- ... e-47878812

[Zorn76]

Progress is progress:)

We are still searching for a long term solution at LT, and still plenty to sort out overall, but I'm Stoked that we at least didn't stick with the lineup from a year ago.

[Jjones84]

For sure, we have real potential there. This is really the last elite d line we face other than la again. I have this feeling that our o line is going to dominate after this week.

[jshawaii22]

It was the 49'ers.... the 49'ers... the 49'ers.. I thought the first 1 1/2 quarters last week were the best I've seen our line in over a year. too. Hard to argue with CM's production. It was the 49'ers. Let's revisit this in 48 hours.

[Jjones84]

I'm not basing my opinions on just the right 49ers, though they do have a good front seven, that's about all that is decent. Armstead and Buckner are no slouches, and then there is navarro. I'm basing my opinion on the fact that there is more to meet the eye when it comes to their struggles. Wilson is responsible for some of those sacks, the coaches and wilson even acknowledged it. Plus, they weren't playing in a vacuum. We can't forget they have played some of the best d lines in the league. They give every team trouble, and they get sacks against every team. It has been a trial by fire. They are gaining valuable experience. Britt has played very well, so has glowinski. Ifedi is going to be the best out of the three. He will have an immediate impact in both the pass and run game. After this game, they won't see an elite d line for a while. They have a chance to really come together and look good. If we can shore up the tackle spots through the draft, or get a good fa or two, this line will be awesome. There really is a lot of potential there, and I think they have a foundation for something to be excited about. If russ wasn't hurt, we would be having a different conversatile right now. His mobility hid how bad the line really was last year. They are quite a bit better this year already.

[NorthHawk]

The interior of the line is far better, but I don't think the edges are quite as good yet.
They look more cohesive earlier than last year which is a stroke of luck considering all of the changes, but the young players will almost surely make some big mistakes as part of the learning curve.

[RiverDog]

A couple of points:

The OL in the first 3 games last season was absolutely horrid. It's not any more fair to compare this unit at this point of this season to last year's first 3 games than it would to compare them to the Hogs.

We've only had one above average performance as up until last Sunday, our offense produced one touchdown and 15 total points in 8 quarters of football and as was pointed out, last Sunday's game was against a rebuilding 49'ers team that isn't expected to compete for a playoff spot.

So we'll see. It's obviously encouraging and there's plenty of reason to be optimistic, but they're going to have to play well above average if Russell doesn't have 100% of his mobility.

[NorthHawk]

A couple of other points:

Defenses and DL's in particular get their act together faster than OLs so it's nothing new across the league to see many OLs struggle early in the season.
We played 2 teams of the 3 with potentially dominating DLs and some very good interior DLinemen.
That they had some problems would be expected, but it seems to me the inside pressures are far less than this time last year.
I think those are positives.

The Jets DL can be pretty good, too (or at least has some personnel that can cause some big problems) so it will be another good test for our OL.
With a 10am start tomorrow, this will be a bigger test than we might think and we have to be good early with Russell being a little hobbled.

[HumanCockroach]

A couple of points:

The OL in the first 3 games last season was absolutely horrid. It's not any more fair to compare this unit at this point of this season to last year's first 3 games than it would to compare them to the Hogs.

We've only had one above average performance as up until last Sunday, our offense produced one touchdown and 15 total points in 8 quarters of football and as was pointed out, last Sunday's game was against a rebuilding 49'ers team that isn't expected to compete for a playoff spot.

So we'll see. It's obviously encouraging and there's plenty of reason to be optimistic, but they're going to have to play well above average if Russell doesn't have 100% of his mobility.

Yes, the line WAS absolutely horrid the first three games ( against less competition) last season ( hence the marked improvement from last season to this). That's the flipping point. Have you even read the article?

The amount of pressure and sacks has been drastically lowered. This isn't about comparing this young line to dominant offensive lines from yesteryears, it's about the improvement from last year's group to this year's group.

[RiverDog]

Yes, the line WAS absolutely horrid the first three games ( against less competition) last season ( hence the marked improvement from last season to this). That's the flipping point. Have you even read the article?

The amount of pressure and sacks has been drastically lowered. This isn't about comparing this young line to dominant offensive lines from yesteryears, it's about the improvement from last year's group to this year's group.

Yes, I read the article. It was worth reading but a bit of a homer job IMO.

My whole point about using last year's OL in a 3 game comparison to this season's performance is that it's not a large enough sample size to make an honest comparison. To demonstrate my point, if you want to compare some 3 game offensive stats, total points would be 49 this season to 74 last year (Lockett contributed a couple TD's in the first game last season), first downs would be 56 this year vs. 59 last season, and total yards 1076 this season to 1038 last year, so there's not much difference.

So "drastically" better? Is there a homer buzzer I can hit? We've won 2 home games and lost our only road game this season. After 3 games last season, we lost two road games and won one home game. Let's revisit the issue at mid season.

[HumanCockroach]

Whatever RD. You clamored for improved line play, you got it, you can't accept that, as how would you be able to claim line indifference or FO mishandling if you acknowledged it.

Keep ignoring the DRASTIC improvements, call it homerism, keep that negative spin going at all costs. It's what you do so well, no reason to change that up.

Seahawks fans, what are you going to do?, can't be happy unless they're b#tching about something, or apologizing for being good. Dismissing their own players accomplishments, or blowing off improvement, growth or progress ( to small of a sample size, yeah, but it was SF or Miami, but they lost against the Rams, ETC, ETC,ETC to infinity). Uggh.

( FYI that 13.2% was through week 8 last year. The mid point, not week three. So unless you are predicting drastic regression this season, your midpoint statement doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot. At this point, Seattle would have to allow something like a sack 20% of the time until week 8 just to drop to on par with last year's group)

[Jjones84]

Brian Nemhauser @hawkblogger states the o line is way ahead of last year's line at this time.

Seahawks opponent sack rate through 8 games last year: 13.2%

Seahawks opponent sack rate through 3 games this year: 5.9%
1:51 PM - 26 Sep 2016

Here is the link for the whole story.

http://sea.247sports.com/Bolt/Seahawks- ... e-47878812

[NorthHawk]

It shows how important the interior of the OL is for productivity.

[HumanCockroach]

Looked really good again today.

[Oly]

Looked really good again today.

I wasn't able to watch the game. Any more details? I figured Ifedi would upgrade the RG spot, but more info would be appreciated.

[obiken]

I wasn't able to watch the game. Any more details? I figured Ifedi would upgrade the RG spot, but more info would be appreciated.

He was money, he kept out Mohammed all day long. Moving him to Guard was a genius move. Most of the time RW had a pocket to actually throw out of. This was a front 4 that I predicted would eat RW alive. WRONG. Not much else to say!

[HumanCockroach]

2 sacks, 5 pressures.... Overall the entire line played exceptionally well. Ifedi got burned once other than that, the pressure applied had more to do with coverage than the line. solid pocket all day, and before anyone starts in on the they only rushed for 68 yards, I would like to point out that is the number one rushing defense for a reason.

[monkey]

What's really giving me hope for this team, aside from the OBVIOUS improvement over last years line, is the interior. I'm shocked, absolutely shocked at just how good our new center looks! Britt is putting together a very respectable season so far! Glowinski has been quite good so far as well, and now we added a player who looks to be the toughest guy on the line, Germain Ifedi.
BTW, anyone remember PFF's ridiculous grade of him during the draft? Boy they look stupid now.

Don't get me wrong, this is still far from a great line, I still wish we could upgrade our tackle spots, especially LT with Bradley Sowell, but witht he interior of the line playing the way they are right now, this line is EASILY good enough to get us where we want to go this year.

[savvyman]

What's really giving me hope for this team, aside from the OBVIOUS improvement over last years line, is the interior. I'm shocked, absolutely shocked at just how good our new center looks! Britt is putting together a very respectable season so far! Glowinski has been quite good so far as well, and now we added a player who looks to be the toughest guy on the line, Germain Ifedi.
BTW, anyone remember PFF's ridiculous grade of him during the draft? Boy they look stupid now.

Don't get me wrong, this is still far from a great line, I still wish we could upgrade our tackle spots, especially LT with Bradley Sowell, but witht he interior of the line playing the way they are right now, this line is EASILY good enough to get us where we want to go this year.

True but ease up on Sowell - it is good news that he is the starting Left Tackle - that means he is better at it than the off-season chosen one Gary Gilliam. So it is good news that Sowell is here and Gilliam is able to play Right Tackle. If Sowell was not here than Gilliam would be at Left tackle (downgrade) and who would be manning the right side? Webb??

[HumanCockroach]

From what I have read, Gilliam is the best LT, unfortunately Sowell doesn't play RT and due to Webbs horrid play at RT out necessitated moving Gilliam back to right, not a "downgrade" but a necessary move based on Webbs putrid-ness

[savvyman]

From what I have read, Gilliam is the best LT, unfortunately Sowell doesn't play RT and due to Webbs horrid play at RT out necessitated moving Gilliam back to right, not a "downgrade" but a necessary move based on Webbs putrid-ness

Then that is still better news - Gilliam being a NFL quality starter at left Tackle is what the FO & fans are hoping for. Thanks for the info.

[obiken]

Then that is still better news - Gilliam being a NFL quality starter at left Tackle is what the FO & fans are hoping for. Thanks for the info.

I flipped out when they put German Ifetti at Guard. I couldn't see wasting a 6-7 body at Guard but it was a genius move. Pressure up the middle today was negligible.

[Jjones84]

2 sacks, 5 pressures.... Overall the entire line played exceptionally well. Ifedi got burned once other than that, the pressure applied had more to do with coverage than the line. solid pocket all day, and before anyone starts in on the they only rushed for 68 yards, I would like to point out that is the number one rushing defense for a reason.

One of those sacks, can't rember which one, was a coverage sack. Russ had more than enough time to throw it, he kind of hitched a little like he wanted to throw, then continued pedaling backwards, there just wasn't anywhere to throw the ball.

So really, one sack and 5 pressures attributed to the o line, against maybe the best d line in the game. I don't know that dallas' "hall of fame" line would have done much better. This performance was better than average.
We won't see another line this quality until the next lambs game. That coupled withe the number 1 d, things are looking good in THE GREAT PNW. Can't wait til the falcons game. We are going to gift them a sobering reality check. They look great against literally the worst defenses in the league. Even the Panthers have the 19th ranked scoring defense, so they haven't played anyone yet.

[monkey]

From what I have read, Gilliam is the best LT, unfortunately Sowell doesn't play RT and due to Webbs horrid play at RT out necessitated moving Gilliam back to right, not a "downgrade" but a necessary move based on Webbs putrid-ness

That's my belief as well.

[NorthHawk]

I wonder how this will affect Gilliam's contract negotiations next year with him being the heir apparent at LT, but having to play RT.
He's an RFA, but will he want LT money or will he get some type of hybrid deal whereby he gets more if he plays a certain percentage at LT?
It should be a significant raise for him anyway as he's only making $604,000 this year according to Spotrac.

[Oly]

Thanks, everyone! I can't believe that I not only feel good about the reports, but that Britt might be the key player on the interior OL. Didn't see that coming a year ago.

[jshawaii22]

Cable will go down as a Genus if this line works. Think of our opinion 1 month ago: of Sowell (failure everywhere else) / Glowinski (oh great... 2nd Year and another new position) Justin Britt ( we will all be in awe if he works out at Center as most of us ready to write him off..) Ifedi (a month ago I didn't understand why we drafted a "tackle" to play guard, but if one game is a clue, this #1 pick will be our starter for the next decade +) and Garry Gilliam (who might be the best of all of them and why isn't he our LT? )

I've watched this past Sunday 3x and I know that we are supposed to be a 'balanced' offense, but there is no doubt that going forward, the passing game... we have no choice but to let Russell take over the decision making, the way they let Peyton. I see us bumping it to 40 passes -20 runs in some games this year. We have a receiving corps that will be hard to stop as long as Russell has the time.

From Hawks.com and Pete today:

4. The Offensive Line Is Making Significant Progress
As mentioned earlier, one of the reasons that Carroll is optimistic about his team’s play going forward is what he has seen from the line early this season. Despite losing two starters in free agency and moving another, Justin Britt, from guard to center, Seattle’s new-look line has started the season playing better than last year’s line did before it turned things around and played well down the stretch.
“How about this one,” Carroll said. “We had 18 sacks at this point last year, nine sacks this year. There you go, that’s what we’re talking about. We’re better. We felt that we were better, you can see that we’re better, and we can still improve a great deal too. That’s a really talented (Jets) front four, now, they’re loaded. They’ve got top-15 picks across the board there, so our guys hung in there great.”
Carroll was also excited about what he saw from first-round pick Germain Ifedi, who made his first start at right guard after missing the first three games with an ankle injury. While there’s still plenty of room for growth for Ifedi, Carroll said, “Germain did a really good job. You can feel his presence, you can see what he can do.”

[RiverDog]

I gotta come back into this thread to eat some crow. The OL looked very good Sunday, which makes it two good efforts in a row and thus a trend rather than an anomaly against a weak opponent. I was particularly impress with how we banged out a 4th quarter first down by running the ball and keeping the clock moving to protect a 2 score lead. That didn't happen last season.

But I still say that our improved OL performance is a more of a result of finding ways way to mitigate weak link, which started back in the second half of last season, rather than an improvement in talent or play. But what ever it is due to, I'm very pleased with the results.

Given the fact that Russell Wilson was obviously impaired, IMO Sunday's performance was one of his best efforts he's put in as a Seahawk. It gives us a glimpse of what he might be like 6-8 years from now when his mobility becomes a permanent limitation. So the next time some trash talker wants to tell you how Wilson is nothing but a fluke who has to run to be successful, you can show them the highlights of this game.

[Hawktawk]

I have to say the line looked very good. Ifedi had to be a big help. Britt looks very good, more physical than I remember Unger being and there are no snapping problems like last year.
They still got beat bad a coupe of times. Id rather see a guy tackle the defender than get a free shot on Russ like that but minor quibble.
They were good.
Crow eaten.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I gotta come back into this thread to eat some crow. The OL looked very good Sunday, which makes it two good efforts in a row and thus a trend rather than an anomaly against a weak opponent. I was particularly impress with how we banged out a 4th quarter first down by running the ball and keeping the clock moving to protect a 2 score lead. That didn't happen last season.

But I still say that our improved OL performance is a more of a result of finding ways way to mitigate weak link, which started back in the second half of last season, rather than an improvement in talent or play. But what ever it is due to, I'm very pleased with the results.

Given the fact that Russell Wilson was obviously impaired, IMO Sunday's performance was one of his best efforts he's put in as a Seahawk. It gives us a glimpse of what he might be like 6-8 years from now when his mobility becomes a permanent limitation. So the next time some trash talker wants to tell you how Wilson is nothing but a fluke who has to run to be successful, you can show them the highlights of this game.

I'll take that. As much money as this team spends elsewhere, I'm more than pleased to have a functioning o-line that works in conjunction with coaching/scheme/play-calling. They won't be superstars but good enough.

It amazes me (somewhat) that everybody I know still says Wilson is at his best on the run, and you beat him by forcing him in the pocket. A co-worker actually came to me last week and said, "man, you were right. Wilson did more damage in the pocket than out of the pocket, and he was one of the best in the league last season." There's hope for some of those nay-sayers and trash talkers.

[Hawktawk]

Russell throws one of the most beautiful wrinkle free deep balls I've ever seen. And more of those are from the pocket than outside. Hes as good if not better than anyone in the league right now. I really don't understand how anyone can bash Wilson with a clear conscience anymore. They have just predicted his downfall for years and they cant stand to be dead wrong.

[NorthHawk]

Yup, it's ego. They can't let go from the edge and admit they were wrong.
I still think some are clinging to the height issue even if they don't openly admit it.
That prejudice won't go away soon.

[Jjones84]

Russell throws one of the most beautiful wrinkle free deep balls I've ever seen. And more of those are from the pocket than outside. Hes as good if not better than anyone in the league right now. I really don't understand how anyone can bash Wilson with a clear conscience anymore. They have just predicted his downfall for years and they cant stand to be dead wrong.

Because they are egomaniacal jerks who refuse to admit they were wrong. For most of the people to admit he is as great as he is, they would have to admit their draft analysis was wrong. People were so passionate in claiming that he couldn't be an nfl qb, they are willing to look like an asshole and stick to their guns. They ignore every statistical catagory there is, and spit lies about him not being a good pocket qb. They even are still trying to push the too short idea on people. I can't accurately put into words how ridiculously wrong they are.

[monkey]

I have to say the line looked very good. Ifedi had to be a big help.
Britt looks very good, more physical than I remember Unger being and there are no snapping problems like last year.

It's pretty hysterical to me PFF's grade of Ifedi. They couldn't have been more wrong about him if they'd tried to be. Every single thing they said about his game, every single thing they claimed were weaknesses of his, were 100% inaccurate. How can you be 100% wrong about anything and still claim to be an "expert"? What a joke. Ifedi looks to be the future star on the line, he has the strength, tenacity, size, agility etc... to be a perennial all pro.

Britt is quickly becoming a terrific center, one who is already one of the leagues better run blockers. Unger was traded in part, because he never became the run blocker that Cable tried to turn him into. Britt is actually incredible at getting to the second level and putting guys on their butts. I don't know exactly what it was that clicked for Britt this last off season (though Cable hinted that it was getting rid of Sweezy and his almost reckless style which Britt tried to emulate which caused the change), but the change is amazing. He looks every bit the part of a legitimate, good NFL center.

I'm not going to sit here and pretend that this is a good line yet (though it is in fact trending that way), but I will say that the interior looks good at least, and they are, at a minimum, good enough to help the team win the whole thing. It's still the teams biggest weak spot, but it's not nearly the weak spot that we worried it would be, and it looked like after the first two weeks.
It took over seven weeks last year for the line to start playing well, this year, it took three games.
I'm impressed.

[RiverDog]

Russell throws one of the most beautiful wrinkle free deep balls I've ever seen. And more of those are from the pocket than outside. Hes as good if not better than anyone in the league right now. I really don't understand how anyone can bash Wilson with a clear conscience anymore. They have just predicted his downfall for years and they cant stand to be dead wrong.

They really can't bash him, at least not with any credibility. And yes, some of those deep balls were a thing of beauty. He has a really, really nice touch.

I actually think that his injuries might have made him a better quarterback in that it's given him more confidence in his ability to throw from the pocket and that he may have developed a higher level of trust in his offensive line to protect him.

[PTHawker]

Like it or not, I believe we are set, if all goes according to plan for the next couple of years.

Next year, I can see Ifedi, move to Rt tackle.
The other player on the bench (Odihaiambo?)at the moment, goes to rt. guard.
Fant goes to LT.

I can say that I really like what Britt has done, and the core guard group is just menacing with Ifedi.

Now we can start once again start trading our #1's for playmakers

[jshawaii22]

"If all goes well".. I'd like to see stability in the OLine. The weak link may be our LT. That's about it.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I hope Fant gets there, PTHawker. I like his atheleticism and size, but he's never played tackle before. I'm sure your expectations are no different than anybody else; he'll need a few years to get up to speed, so, in the mean time, the Seahawks need to be looking for an immediate upgrade at the tackle spots. Easier said than done.

[NorthHawk]

For reference sake, here are the OL contract end dates:

Gary Gilliam 2017
J'Marcus Webb 2018
Justin Britt 2018
Mark Glowinski 2019
George Fant 2019
DeAndre Elliot 2019
Rees Odhiambo 2020
Joey Hunt 2020
Germain Ifedi 2021

History shows we won't be very competitive for retaining the services of players we have developed along the OL if other teams are interested.
Will Gilliam playing RT be an exception because the plans are for him to move to LT? He's only costing $514,000 (yearly average)so he's going to get a significant raise regardless.
Will they re-sign Britt who's only making $886,733 (yearly average)?
What we are seeing is 2-3 years of effective playing service with the exception of Britt and possibly Ifedi.

If they want to continue this model of young players along the OL, they will have to make some very good selections in the draft every year. So far, Ifedi looks to be a keeper, but a lot of the previous selections had and have some big question marks.
I hope they can keep the interior together through the next contracts. That would help a lot in providing stability along the OL.

[Hawk Sista]

I love the idea of Fant becoming a stud LT...mostly because we need one, but also because it would be a GIANT feather in the cap for PC, JS, Cable and the scouting team. Not only has Fant not played left tackle, he hasn't played football. If they can teach him to be a stud with no game film, they should all get gold jackets. I mean this guy is a huge project; no real game tape to speak of, just a vision of who they need paired with a giant strong-man with great athleticism. I totally hope this fairy tale comes to pass and we all live happily ever after. The End