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by **RiverDog** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:34 am

It seems like this year there's more quarterbacks that are on the trading block than any other season that I can remember. Here's a summary...and feel free to add a name or two if I miss any:

Tony Romo, Jay Cutler, Colin Kaepernick, and Kirk Cousins, all starters or former starters, and Jimmy Garopollo, the QB that stepped in for Brady during his suspension. Plus I suppose you can throw in Brock Osweiller and Blake Bortles.

I tossed in Cousins as there's been a lot of speculation that Kyle Shannahan will do what he can to pry him away from the Redskins.

There's not a lot of top line college talent in this year's draft, so we could see a lot of shuffling of QB's this season.

Thoughts?

by **Hawktawk** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:08 am

Romo is fools gold. Hes as good as anyone when healthy which is basically never.Hes started about 5 games since the 2014 season.Maybe Denver or KC? Someone said Buffalo. Hes going to be a waste but someone will bite on him.

I wouldnt want to see Cousins with the 9ers. He would give them their best pure passer in quite a while. Hes already got some Redskins game and season records.Hes sort of a young Carson Palmer with way bigger balls.
Unless the Skins see someone in the draft they love which I doubt they do they will likely figure out a way to keep him around.

Same goes for Garoppolo. I don't want Shanahan to have a guy like that coming in the door.Edelman gave him a huge endorsement calling him a "stud" who will do a great job as a starter.

But there are whispers the Pats and Belichick will hang onto him. For all Brady's comments about playing till 45 for the first 2.5 quarters of the Superbowl he looked like he was already 45. The bottom falls out overnight for lots of guys his age. Is it worth a high draft pick or 2 to possibly lose your QOTF in a league driven by the position?
The kid coming out of Clemson looks like the only really great option at QB in this draft and even then opinions vary greatly. Maybe the draft gurus can correct me on that but I think the lack of top prospects will affect the decision of the Skins and Pats.
Cutler? someone will probably be stupid enough to sign him but why?Hes the next Jeff George. Beautiful arm and decent athleticism. Shitty attitude and no leadership skills and needlessly careless with the ball.
Bortles will likely be in Jax another year. He looked like a different man with marrone coaching in a very limited sample.I called Marrone for Jax in the coaching carousel thread BTW.Too bad for Gus Bradly but the guy just wasn't HC material. That team will pop next year.
Ostweiller is poison.hes maybe the worst free agent QB signee anywhere. When he gets benched for Tom Savage and Bill O'brien says the job is open coming into camp who is going to sign up for 25 million for his one year salary?
Anyway RD its nice to see something new to read and speculate on.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:45 am

I heard the same thing about Belichick holding onto Garopollo as you did, but if a team like the Browns offered up a first round draft choice, they'd be fools not to bite.

10-4 on your takes on Romo and Cutler. They'd be stop gap replacements at best.

One of the more intriguing QB's is Kaepernick. He has the highest ceiling of those mentioned, and is young enough to fill the position for another 10 years. Any chance Andy Reid takes the bait? Can you imagine what Alex Smith might think if Kaepernick followed him to KC?

We haven't had this much drama at the QB position since Bret Favre spent several years retiring and un-retiring.

by **NorthHawk** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:05 am

Interestingly enough, PFT has a comment about Garoppolo and the leverage he has about where he might go if they want to trade him.
Basically he could refuse to sign a contract extension in a destination he doesn't want to be and then hold them hostage for the franchise tag like Kirk Cousins or become a free agent when his contract ends.
It's a big gamble to give up a good draft pick without the extension in place so it might lessen the pool of destinations.

by **Hawktawk** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:48 pm

I heard an update on Garoppolo a bit ago. Apparently the Pats are willing to listen to mega deals only. The exact quote "They aren't sitting him out on the lawn with a for sale sign." They feel no pressure to trade him. Unnamed GM's say there will indeed be several "mega" offers for him.
Add to the QB mix Tyrod Taylor who has a pretty big cap number in Buffalo but can look like a healthy Russell Wilson some of the time. Also Ryan Fitzpatrick with the jets who looks like a backup at best if that. Mike Glennon with Tampa is a traditional dropback passer with some skills whose name is being debated as well.
Considering that Shanahan is reportedly looking at Matt "pick 6" Schaub or Bryan flipping Hoyer as his plan B if Cousins and Garoppolo fall through it just shows how threadbare the league is on talent.

As for Kap RD I think hes poison due to his politics. Its one thing to boycott the anthem but when you start wearing pig socks and Castro shirts its another ballgame. I see him like Ray Rice. Not enough upside for the BS he would bring to a new organization. Sherman wrecked him anyway, kind of like Kam Bam did to Vernon Davis. The best place for him might be right where he is if they will have him.Im shocked he cancelled his contract.

by **NorthHawk** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:35 pm

It seems like Cousins to SF is a serious consideration.
Like most teams in the NFL, they aren't that far off from being a contender and a solid QB can make a lot of difference if they have a good draft.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:49 pm

NorthHawk wrote:It seems like Cousins to SF is a serious consideration.
Like most teams in the NFL, they aren't that far off from being a contender and a solid QB can make a lot of difference if they have a good draft.

Not that far off from being a contender? They were 2-14 last season, 7-25 over the past two. How many teams have made the playoffs following a 2-14 or worse season?

by **NorthHawk** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:45 pm

They get 3 good draft picks and a starting caliber QB and they can improve greatly.
They will get Bowman back on Defense and their OL isn't bad, so some real talent additions can be trouble in the Division.

by **RiverDog** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:30 am

NorthHawk wrote:They get 3 good draft picks and a starting caliber QB and they can improve greatly.
They will get Bowman back on Defense and their OL isn't bad, so some real talent additions can be trouble in the Division.

I guess it depends on your terminology, ie the difference between "making trouble", which IMO means an upset or two, and a contender, which means playoff contender. I'm more inclined to agree with the former, disagree completely with the latter.

Bowman is about the only player on their roster that's worth a damn, certainly the only one on defense, and of course, Shanny is an offensive coach, so I don't expect a huge improvement on that side of the ball. It's a pretty empty cupboard down there, and they have a GM and a HC that are truly babes in the woods. I don't expect them to hit all the right buttons on their first try.

And I'm curious: Does anyone remember a team having two consecutive really bad seasons and made the playoffs the following year? I know that the Colts in Luck's rookie season went from 2-14 (the "suck for Luck" season) to the playoffs the following year, but they were 10-6 and made the playoffs on the front bookend of that 2-14 tanking.

by **Seahawkfan80** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:50 am

Just wonder if there are other backups in the league that could create more dialogue from the OP. I wonder what is going to happen with the backup for dallas not known as Romo. Are there backups in the CFL that may be looked at? Arena? Has any one of the talking heads pushed those ideas yet? Yanno...Espn and such. Just looking.

by **mykc14** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:19 pm

Seahawkfan80 wrote:Just wonder if there are other backups in the league that could create more dialogue from the OP. I wonder what is going to happen with the backup for dallas not known as Romo. Are there backups in the CFL that may be looked at? Arena? Has any one of the talking heads pushed those ideas yet? Yanno...Espn and such. Just looking.

AJ McCarron is a backup from Cincinnati has played well in limited backup duty. Glennon played decently as a starter his rookie year. There's a few more names that are/might be available.

by **obiken** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:22 pm

RiverDog wrote:It seems like this year there's more quarterbacks that are on the trading block than any other season that I can remember. Here's a summary...and feel free to add a name or two if I miss any:

Tony Romo, Jay Cutler, Colin Kaepernick, and Kirk Cousins, all starters or former starters, and Jimmy Garopollo, the QB that stepped in for Brady during his suspension. Plus I suppose you can throw in Brock Osweiller and Blake Bortles.

I tossed in Cousins as there's been a lot of speculation that Kyle Shannahan will do what he can to pry him away from the Redskins.

There's not a lot of top line college talent in this year's draft, so we could see a lot of shuffling of QB's this season.

Thoughts?

We trade Russell Wilson to Cleveland, for 3 first rounders; pick up Romo, as he can run this offense, then we would be set!

by **c_hawkbob** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:01 pm

obiken wrote:
We trade Russell Wilson to Cleveland, for 3 first rounders; pick up Romo, as he can run this offense, then we would be set!

Back away from the bong Obi ...

by **RiverDog** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:51 am

mykc14 wrote:AJ McCarron is a backup from Cincinnati has played well in limited backup duty. Glennon played decently as a starter his rookie year. There's a few more names that are/might be available.

Although he's certainly in the QB mix, Glennon's a UFA and won't be part of any trade. But he'd be a cheap option as an experienced backup for a team up against the salary cap like the Cowboys.

by **Zorn76** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:15 am

If I'm KC, I trade Alex Smith for draft picks now.

If they are seriously looking into Romo as a rental (which would be foolish), then they don't have much faith in Smith, anyway.
And why should they? The guy doesn't have "it". He's been in the league long enough to say so.
Nice guy, class act, but a very pedestrian QB for all intents and purposes.

I don't trust Cousins longterm, Kaep is more about collecting pay checks and kneeling, even if the rest of us no longer pay attention.

As for Pat's backup, he is an interesting prospect. Regardless, I either take Myles Jack or trade out of pick entirely to rebuild, yet again, in Cleveland.

by **Hawktawk** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:13 am

I forgot about AJ Mccarron. Some execs are very high on him as I understand with sources saying he might be safer and certainly cheaper than garrapolo.
It ought to get interesting in a few days.

by **NorthHawk** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:25 am

I'm just glad we aren't one of those teams having to go through that process.

by **obiken** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:56 pm

Back away from the bong Obi ...[/quote]

Actually it was 2 large glasses of Cabernet!! Seriously, can you imagine going back to looking for a franchise QB C-Bob?? Man I dont miss those days!!!

by **RiverDog** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:09 am

If the Pats do trade Garopollo, it will be interesting to see how he performs with a different team. Remember the last Pats backup that substituted when Brady wasn't available and how he fared once he tried to parlay his short lived success with the Pats into a long career as a starter?

It kinda makes you wonder how much of Brady's success is due to Brady's talent and how much is due to Belichek's system. Take a look at the other HOF QB from Brady's era, Peyton Manning, and how his two teams fared the year after he left them.

by **NorthHawk** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:28 am

I've always said that players who excel more often than not have fallen into a great situation.
There aren't too many players that would do well in say a Cleveland type situation the last 10 years, but QBs that aren't that great have played very well in very good situations. Matt Flynn is another example of that phenomena (for a lack of a better word). Most great RBs have a good OL in front of them or at least a coach who knows how best to use his talents. A player who could dominate in one situation might very well flounder in another and I think that's what we've seen with a couple of the Pats backup QBs that went elsewhere.

by **c_hawkbob** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:00 pm

obiken wrote:Actually it was 2 large glasses of Cabernet!! Seriously, can you imagine going back to looking for a franchise QB C-Bob?? Man I dont miss those days!!!

Ugh, yes I remember those days well; Kemp, MacGwire, Stouffer, Gelbaugh, Friesz, Kitna, Foley ... yeah, I remember ... we got it SO much better now!

by **NorthHawk** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:13 pm

It makes me wonder what Washington doesn't like about Cousins.
I don't see anyone in FA that would be better, and I don't see any in this draft, either. Maybe they are thinking down the road and see a kid they might get next year or the year after.

by **obiken** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:50 pm

Ugh, yes I remember those days well; Kemp, MacGwire, Stouffer, Gelbaugh, Friesz, Kitna, Foley ... yeah, I remember ... we got it SO much better now!

Stouffer!! Man I forgot about him!! He gets my vote as the worst Hawks QB of all time!!

by **RiverDog** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:41 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:Ugh, yes I remember those days well; Kemp, MacGwire, Stouffer, Gelbaugh, Friesz, Kitna, Foley ... yeah, I remember ... we got it SO much better now!

Gotta toss in Rick Mirer, too.

We've arguably had just 4 starting QB's that one could consider a "franchise" QB, or at least a solid, multi year starter: Zorn, Krieg, Hasselbeck, and Wilson.

by **c_hawkbob** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:59 pm

RiverDog wrote:
Gotta toss in Rick Mirer, too.

We've arguably had just 4 starting QB's that one could consider a "franchise" QB, or at least a solid, multi year starter: Zorn, Krieg, Hasselbeck, and Wilson.

I'll give you Mirer if you'll give me Moon.

by **RiverDog** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:31 am

c_hawkbob wrote:I'll give you Mirer if you'll give me Moon.

I thought about throwing Moon in as one of my franchise QB's, which is why I threw in the kicker "multi year starter". Moon only had one decent season with us. But if we were going to go by an overall career resume, then of course, Moon would have to be included.

by **Hawktawk** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:36 am

Moon doesn't count. Had the Hawks guaranteed his contract as Houston did coming from the CFL my how much different it might have been with that fearsome defense and running game.By the time he came back as an old man he was seeing the rush instead of the field, a shell of himself although he threw a beautiful ball till the day he retired.

Kitna was a fairly solid pro who stuck around the league for quite a while. Hes one of only 4 quarterbacks in Hawks history to make the playoffs as a Hawk.Holmgren came in the door and he wanted his guy at the position so he went and got Hass in 2000, much the same as Holmgren trading Galloway, Sam Adams, Ahman Green etc.

No doubt Hass was one of the best in our history. But to revisit what someone said about being in the right situation is it fair to speculate if Kitna might have had some success here as well?
After the 99 season the Hawks missed the playoffs the next 3 seasons with a mishmash of Hass and Trent Dilfer behind center .Dilfer had actually won the starting job at one point and popped his achilles and then Hass got another chance which he ran with.
Still Hass and the Seahawks didn't win a playoff game for Holmgren's first 6 seasons. Looking back at it now the Holmgren era had 3 truly good years and ended with a thud in 2008.Would Kitna have done as well? Hass did play one of his best games ever in the brown bag beast quake game as his swan song.

Man have we gotten spoiled the last 7 years.

by **RiverDog** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:35 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Moon doesn't count. Had the Hawks guaranteed his contract as Houston did coming from the CFL my how much different it might have been with that fearsome defense and running game.By the time he came back as an old man he was seeing the rush instead of the field, a shell of himself although he threw a beautiful ball till the day he retired.

There was more to Moon's signing with Houston than money. Moon's HC at Edmonton, Hugh Campbell, had just gotten hired by the Oilers. Moon and Campbell had won 5 straight CFL titles, were good friends, and Houston would be running the same offense as Moon had played in at Edmonton. Besides, there were other teams in the sweepstakes besides the Seahawks, and it wasn't like we were in desperate need of a QB at the time so there wasn't a huge motivation to get into a bidding war. In retrospect, it's easy to rap the Hawks for not selling out and bringing in Moon at any price, but there was no guarantee that Moon's success in the CFL was going to translate to the NFL.

by **NorthHawk** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:57 pm

We shoulda drafted him as a QB when we had the chance.

by **RiverDog** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:30 pm

NorthHawk wrote:We shoulda drafted him as a QB when we had the chance.

We thought we had our franchise QB in Jim Zorn when Moon hit the draft in '78, but it probably wouldn't have made any difference anyway as the entire league was still suffering from a racist attitude regarding black QB's.

by **ACES 13** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:30 am

[/quote]Ugh, yes I remember those days well; Kemp, MacGwire, Stouffer, Gelbaugh, Friesz, Kitna, Foley ... yeah, I remember ... we got it SO much better now![/quote]

Charlie Frye

by **Hawktawk** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:16 pm

I watched Charlie Fry and the seachickens get smoked at the Clink by a young Aaron Rodgers his first year starting in GB during the woeful 4-12 end of Holmy era.
My 2 takeaways were#1 Fry isnt an NFL QB and #2 hey that Rodgers is going to be pretty good.
The highlight of the day was shooting Jagermeister in the stadium parking garage before the game and having 2 homeland security officers use my car for a test vehicle to train their bomb sniffing dog......
Later that year I watched Seneca Wallace and the aforementioned chickenhawks get destroyed like 50-7 or something by the Eagles.
Probably the 2 worst investments I ever made in Seahawks tickets.

Yes we are so spoiled now.

by **ACES 13** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:32 am

Yes we are so spoiled now.

I was happy when we acquired Charlie Frye only B/C the Browns had to be wrong to get rid of him.

Shows what I know ...

by **obiken** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:31 pm

NorthHawk wrote:We shoulda drafted him as a QB when we had the chance.

That's it in a nutshell. We would have been set for years. What really ticked me off is they gave the guaranteed money to the Boz. I never forgave the Hawks for that. You wont give Moon a guaranteed contract, but you give it to the F_ing BOZ??!! It still makes me puke thinking about it.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:10 am

obiken wrote:That's it in a nutshell (not drafting Moon). We would have been set for years. What really ticked me off is they gave the guaranteed money to the Boz. I never forgave the Hawks for that. You wont give Moon a guaranteed contract, but you give it to the F_ing BOZ??!! It still makes me puke thinking about it.

I don't know if you were trying to link the two or not, but Moon hit the draft in 1978, Boz in 1987.

There wasn't a Seahawk fan alive that wasn't enthusiastic and optimistic about the signing of Brian Bosworth. It was only after it was disclosed that he had a degenerative shoulder problem, likely brought on by PED's, that we all became disenchanted with his guaranteed contract, then we all became Monday morning quarterbacks.

As far as not drafting Moon, you could say what you did about a lot of players. We had the opportunity to draft Bret Favre, too, but our owner at the time decided that our future lay with Dan McGuire. We drafted that vertical corpse with the #16 overall while Favre slipped into the 2nd round.

by **NorthHawk** » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:23 am

The difference is they could have had Moon with their last pick that year. They didn't have to use a high pick (there was something like 10 rounds then) so the risk was very low and all you had to do was watch the college highlights to see how well he threw the ball. A QB who can throw the ball that well is always worth the last selection.

by **Hawktawk** » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:55 pm

RD remembers more about the Moon thing than I do including the coach and O coordinator being brought in to sweeten the pot. But if my memory serves me correctly it was reported Moon would still have preferred to return to the place of his college glory and the lack of a guaranteed contract was the deciding factor. He would have been an idiot not to take the deal he took if that was the case.
Of course memory fades after all these years. As it was Mudbone was, as Knox said "good enough" if all the other pieces were there. They were a game short in 83 . 84 was a very good team that ran into Marino and Bill Leavys predecessor.

Had they made the postseason in 1986 they would all have been good enough the way they were playing. Such is life.

As for the origin of the thread it looks like Cousins and Garoppolo are staying put unless its a chess game by WA and NE to drive up the price.
The big FA and QB shuffle is PFFFFT. Lets see what Shanahan does in SF now. Dunce Kap is apparently opting out of his deal to avoid the embarrassment of being cut. All their QBs are FA's. They have the 2nd pick. It will be interesting. Hes not really in the shanahan mold but do they pursue the kid out of Clemson? will he be there?
And for some more entertainment it is reported that none other than the cleaned up Johnny Football is drawing some interest around the league. Really?

by **RiverDog** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:11 am

Hawktawk wrote:RD remembers more about the Moon thing than I do including the coach and O coordinator being brought in to sweeten the pot. But if my memory serves me correctly it was reported Moon would still have preferred to return to the place of his college glory and the lack of a guaranteed contract was the deciding factor. He would have been an idiot not to take the deal he took if that was the case.
Of course memory fades after all these years. As it was Mudbone was, as Knox said "good enough" if all the other pieces were there. They were a game short in 83 . 84 was a very good team that ran into Marino and Bill Leavys predecessor.

Had they made the postseason in 1986 they would all have been good enough the way they were playing. Such is life.

As for the origin of the thread it looks like Cousins and Garoppolo are staying put unless its a chess game by WA and NE to drive up the price.
The big FA and QB shuffle is PFFFFT. Lets see what Shanahan does in SF now. Dunce Kap is apparently opting out of his deal to avoid the embarrassment of being cut. All their QBs are FA's. They have the 2nd pick. It will be interesting. Hes not really in the shanahan mold but do they pursue the kid out of Clemson? will he be there?
And for some more entertainment it is reported that none other than the cleaned up Johnny Football is drawing some interest around the league. Really?

Moon's college glory wasn't all that spectacular. He was a juco transfer, had an unspectacular sophomore and junior seasons at UW, and started his senior season out by nearly getting benched. I was in the stadium for their season opener in 1977, and Moon was literally booed out of the stadium. The Huskies lost big that day, to Mississippi State, and I remember that at the time that I admired how Don James stuck with him in the face of such criticism as James himself had just begun his career with UW and was putting his own job on the line by sticking with Moon. The Huskies started out that season very slow, were 1-3 before Moon and the Huskies suddenly caught fire, won something like 7 straight and went on to the Rose Bowl and beat Michigan.

The point is that Moon was not a slam dunk no brainer first round pick some of you folks are making him out to be. Yes, there was a very deep rooted racial prejudices at the time and his raw talent did justify him at least getting drafted. But those days were before teams really got sophisticated in their research...no pro days or scouting combine back then...so most of their appraisal involved analyzing college film or in person scouting reports...UW existed in the backwater of college football until that season....and Moon's body of work did not justify a team going all in and risking their first rounder on him.

by **NorthHawk** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:05 am

The league wasn't ready for him as a 1st round pick, but with 10 rounds, the last pick would have been worth it.

by **RiverDog** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:48 pm

NorthHawk wrote:The league wasn't ready for him as a 1st round pick, but with 10 rounds, the last pick would have been worth it.

Since Doug Williams WAS taken with a #1 pick, the #17 overall, in the same draft that Moon was available, it's a little hard to argue that the league wasn't ready for Moon. He didn't have a real stellar resume, and that fact more than likely was as big of a factor as his skin color.

But I do agree that he at least should have rated as a low round draft pick and that racial stereotypes more than likely influenced his not getting drafted at all, but even that opinion is engaging in hindsight.

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