Kaepernick to Seahawks?

[RiverDog]

Uh, yeah, RD. . . criminalized. As North points out above, there have been a lot of suggestions (from this forum, around the water cooler in my office, on blogs across the country to the national media) that he needs to get out of the country or be locked up. Last time I checked, we don't lock people up for non-criminal behavior, nor do we ship people out for exercising a basic American right. At least I hope that is the America we still believe in.

I've read just about every comment in this forum and I never heard anyone say that Kaepernick should be "locked up" for his anthem protests, his piggy socks, or his pro Castro tee shirt and will gladly eat my words if you can produce such a quote. But I'll take your word for the water cooler office talk, although I wonder how serious that kind of talk is. It's probably no more serious than Madonna saying that she feels like blowing up the White House.

[Hawk Sista]

Thanks for taking my word for it, I would surely hope you would after knowing me for damned near 20 years. I was never (and I know you know this) trying to imply that any law enforcement agency or mainstream sports caster called for him to be imprisoned or jettisoned from the USA. Yet it is all over the internet, especially in September. Disagree with his tactics all day long and you'll get no beef from me; it is America and he can do what he wants. Call his behavior anti-American and you will get a quarrel each and every time, hence my opposition to the comments like "then get your ass back to Africa" are so un-American and infuriating all at once.

[NorthHawk]

That's a bit hyperbolic- if you do something offensive, you're going to get blowback. Calling that blowback an attempt to deny him his First Amendment rights is kinda silly, isn't it?

No.
Someone who is fearful of speaking out and doesn't is just as restricted as someone not allowed to. It's the attitude we have to be wary of.
Being bullied into not being able to comment is as effective as physically restricting someone from speaking. It's the tyranny of the state in an extreme case or mob rule in situations like this.

[burrrton]

Someone who is fearful of speaking out and doesn't is just as restricted as someone not allowed to.

I honestly can't tell if you're kidding. No, you're not even *close* to being "just as restricted" when you face jail time versus someone calling you an @sshole.

CK's antics were impotent, childish, and misdirected**. Getting blowback for such things should be expected, arguably even encouraged, not objected to because you think it's equivalent to being threatened with incarceration.

Compare what he did to what Baldwin (et al) did and I think you can see the right and wrong way to 'raise awareness'.

**Or at least it's a pretty easy argument to make that they were- I know some here disagree.

[NorthHawk]

When people are afraid to speak, it's the same thing as the threat of jail for them.
At least the effect is the same. It suppresses free speech.
People should be free to speak or demonstrate as they wish without name calling, threats (and there were threats for CK), or PC pressure.
It should be encouraged because then we know who the morons and dangerous people are.
We can dismiss the morons, but we can keep an eye on those who might want to take things too far.

Rights and freedoms, other than by revolution, are rarely lost in one act. They are gradually eroded until they are considered inconsequential then removed, so they must be protected all the time.
I fear we are heading in that direction right now. There is the "correctness deciders" on College campuses where they have created free speech zones because students or guests aren't able to say things on the campus at large.
There is the PC Police (for a lack of a better term) on many social media. Speakers are often subject to a review of what they are going to say for presentations when addressing groups.
These are scary things from a truly free point of view.

What we are missing today is a sense of decorum and respect regarding others points of view and willingness to hear them out, and that is not a good thing if we want to remain free.

[RiverDog]

No.
Someone who is fearful of speaking out and doesn't is just as restricted as someone not allowed to. It's the attitude we have to be wary of.
Being bullied into not being able to comment is as effective as physically restricting someone from speaking. It's the tyranny of the state in an extreme case or mob rule in situations like this.

I completely disagree. We are restricted from speaking our minds ALL THE TIME. At work, I have to bite my lip for about 50% of the time I'm at work. If I spoke my mind on even a small fraction of those occasions, there's a good chance I wouldn't have a job. That's not a restriction that a tyrannical government placed on me, it's completely voluntary on my part. I see that analogy as being no different than the situation Kaepernick faces for speaking his mind. He knew, or should have known, that doing so was likely to draw the wrath of a good number of people, including current and prospective employers.

[burrrton]

When people are afraid to speak, it's the same thing as the threat of jail for them.

Do you know how bananas this sounds?

Look, I'm done going back and forth on such a banal point. If you want to view the backlash CK is facing as identical to that of jailed dissidents in dictatorships around the world, go ahead.

What we are missing today is a sense of decorum and respect regarding others points of view and willingness to hear them out, and that is not a good thing if we want to remain free.

On that we agree, North.

[burrrton]

At work, I have to bite my lip for about 50% of the time I'm at work.

So working where you do is the same as living in the USSR, RD.

[RiverDog]

Thanks for taking my word for it, I would surely hope you would after knowing me for damned near 20 years.

Of course, I believe you. Why wouldn't I?

What I wondered about was just how serious those remarks you overheard really were? There's loose talk that goes on all the time..."they ought to string him up for that" or "I'll wring his frigging neck". Many times it's just a figure of speech and not meant to be taken literally.

[Hawk Sista]

Riiight! So when someone uses the word criminalize in the context I did, why you gotta pick nits?

[RiverDog]

Looks like we are bringing him in for a look-see:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/sea ... spartanntp

[c_hawkbob]

Of course we are. Our front office isn't concerned with hate and hyperbole as much as they are with making the team better.

[savvyman]

I am surprised that No one has realized this.

The Seahawks Front Office Pursuit - and if the deal can work with our cap signings of Colin K - That this is a message to the Hollywood Golden Boy - You have better get your focus back to 100% on the damm position and the team because we are bringing in competition to compete with YOU.


http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nfl/seattle-seahawks/seahawks-insider-blog/article152379722.html

[Hawktawk]

I am surprised that No one has realized this.

The Seahawks Front Office Pursuit - and if the deal can work with our cap signings of Colin K - That this is a message to the Hollywood Golden Boy - You have better get your focus back to 100% on the damm position and the team because we are bringing in competition to compete with YOU.


http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nfl/seattle-seahawks/seahawks-insider-blog/article152379722.html

I considered your point Savvy. I think it may be somewhat of a factor, much as I think shopping Sherman was a shot over his bow as well. Sadly I think we are screwed if Russ goes down and this doofus is under center.
Hes not competition for Russell Wilson whatsoever, Hollywood golden boy or whatever. Lots of fans are a little nervous about the new hollywood Russ including myself.
And time will tell (soon) whether hes back on track with the shark eyes and commitment to excellence or slip sliding away.But hes still one of the premier QB's in the league and not anywhere near the biggest problem on this team.
Kap solves nothing and brings massive baggage. I guess we will see. I sure hope not.

[c_hawkbob]

LOL, Kap is no competition for Russ.

[RiverDog]

LOL, Kap is no competition for Russ.

Agreed. I'm no Anthony-style man crush infatuated with Russell, but there's no way in hell Kaepernick is going to compete for the starting job IF we sign him.

Which is one of the reasons I've very skeptical about this proposal. I'm wondering just how content Kaepernick would be if all he's asked to do is hold a clipboard.

[jshawaii22]

No tryout... no contract... no offers were made. I think this was a PR meeting or at most, to meet Kap and agent and get an idea of how cheap he'll sign for, if we choose to go that way. Isn't there something about a post -June 1 rule that would preclude us from signing him right now?

[Largent80]

They aren't and never were or will sign Kap.

Thank Gawd. Do we really need yet another distraction?

[RiverDog]

They aren't and never were or will sign Kap.

Thank Gawd. Do we really need yet another distraction?

No kidding. With the Sherman trade soap opera, Michael Bennett's outspokenness, the whole Russell being favored story, Boykin's arrest, that's all we need is another media circus that whether or not he could contribute on the field would inevitably accompany Kaepernick.

[Oly]

Well, this story from 710 Kiro quotes a source I've never heard of saying that he wants to be a Hawk and is content to be a backup:

http://sports.mynorthwest.com/284798/re ... -a-backup/

I have no idea if anything will come of it (pretty suspect source if you ask me), but the story might not be dead, yet.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I saw that, too, Oly, and it is all well and good that he's willing to be a backup and wants to be the Seahawk, but, like the article says, Schneider and Co. have not paid more than 1.5 million to a backup. I'm curious what Kaepernick is asking for.

Even if they are legitimately interested, I don't see the Seahawks pulling the trigger until they've gone through all of there options; the article said Ponder and Griffin III are still in the mix along with Davis. They'll make the right call.

[RiverDog]

Well, this story from 710 Kiro quotes a source I've never heard of saying that he wants to be a Hawk and is content to be a backup:

http://sports.mynorthwest.com/284798/re ... -a-backup/

I have no idea if anything will come of it (pretty suspect source if you ask me), but the story might not be dead, yet.

It doesn't matter whether or not Kaepernick would be content on being Russell's backup. Bringing him in, especially now with the way all these rumors of discontent are swirling around the team, has the potential to split what's currently a rather delicate fracture in the locker room divide wide open. The minute Russell tosses a couple interceptions and we lose a couple of winnable games, players on the defense like Sherman and Bennett will start taking sides and we'll have a full blown quarterback controversy.

Let's hope the story is dead.

[NorthHawk]

Do you really think Kap is good enough for players to want him to play over Russ?
I seriously doubt he could split the team as they want to win now, and Kap would give us a better chance to win than Boykin should Russell get hurt enough to have to come out.

[Hawktawk]

OF COURSE KAP WILL COME BE A BACKUP!!!!!! Starvation is a great motivator!!!!!

Seattle is the only team in the league that has even sniffed him after his dumb azz protest that Fd up an entire football season across the league, at least for many fans including myself.
Couple that factor with his underwhelming film the last few years since defenses figured him out its not surprising hes unemployed.
This would be the dumbest move Schneider and Carroll have ever made. They will kill the goose that laid the golden egg and the team may well disintegrate.

[NorthHawk]

Why would the team disintegrate over Kap?

[Hawk Sista]

Disintegrate? Wow. I guess if he has the power to ruin a whole NFL season, he has the power to ruin the Seahawks. Maybe he's magic?

[Hawktawk]

Disintegrate? Wow. I guess if he has the power to ruin a whole NFL season, he has the power to ruin the Seahawks. Maybe he's magic?

This team already is showing cracks. While Bennett and Sherman are wild about the move and Russ has publicly endorsed it it surely will widen the division that has been growing in that locker room. It will irritate many many people of all political persuasions in the fan base greatly and for what? Why do all this for a guy who is ostensibly here to ride the pine?
Yes I think it could be the beginning of the end of the run if this idiot brings his 2-14 mojo up here. I guess sherman will have someone to play catch with.

And sis I said Fd up. That's not ruined, but diminished in enjoyment for sure. I'm not here to re-litigate the whole BLM fiasco but the primary purpose of sports is to give people an escape from all the political BS on every other channel, a place where black and white and muslim and christians and gays and straights and republicans and democrats and independents can come together and lay down the sword and root for a common cause.

Its not the place of a pro athlete to protest IN THE WORKPLACE. Its not the place of the (former LMAO) franchise QB and supposed team leader to sit on his azz disrespecting the line of blue standing behind him ready to take a bullet for him while 99% of his teammates and his coaches stand.Its not the place of a man who has been made fabulously wealthy only because he lives in America to bash America.

Add in the piggy socks and the Castro shirt coupled with the totally ignorant comments praising the Cuban dictator it was way over the top.He'd have had to swim over or take a raft to play pro ball if he was born in that utopia.
Then he admits he doesn't vote. What a tool.
I cannot figure out why so many of my smart friends on this forum do not understand this. The dude is a loser.

Yeah I hate him as bad as Donald Trump. They both are tearing down America in their own ways.

[monkey]

He hasn't been criminalized for his opinions, any more than people have been criminalized for standing up for marriage, or against abortion or, you name it.
I can give a long list of people who were standing on principle, and whose businesses have been destroyed by "tolerant people".
No one has proven to me that the primary reason he doesn't have a job right now, isn't because he just flat out sucks!
Oh sure if he were great and said the stupid crap he's said about Castro and about this country, he'd have a job, or if he kept his trap shut and just sucked, he'd probably have a job right now, but when you're divisive AND you suck​, then no one is going to hire you.

Btw, has everyone forgotten his stupid gang support already? You guys seem to have forgotten all about how he wears apparel and throws up hand signs for Miami's worst, most violent gang. Just go look at his social media history, Facebook for example, (if you can stomach looking at such a self aggrandizing, loathsome little twit that long that is!!)
He is the last thing this team, already embroiled in rumors of discontent, needs to add right now. Adding the league's most divisive player, and alienating patriotic fans like myself, is not a good idea!

[RiverDog]

He hasn't been criminalized for his opinions, any more than people have been criminalized for standing up for marriage, or against abortion or, you name it.
I can give a long list of people who were standing on principle, and whose businesses have been destroyed by "tolerant people".
No one has proven to me that the primary reason he doesn't have a job right now, isn't because he just flat out sucks!
Oh sure if he were great and said the stupid crap he's said about Castro and about this country, he'd have a job, or if he kept his trap shut and just sucked, he'd probably have a job right now, but when you're divisive AND you suck​, then no one is going to hire you.

Btw, has everyone forgotten his stupid gang support already? You guys seem to have forgotten all about how he wears apparel and throws up hand signs for Miami's worst, most violent gang. Just go look at his social media history, Facebook for example, (if you can stomach looking at such a self aggrandizing, loathsome little twit that long that is!!)
He is the last thing this team, already embroiled in rumors of discontent, needs to add right now. Adding the league's most divisive player, and alienating patriotic fans like myself, is not a good idea!

Hey, Primate! Great to see you again.

I agree with most of what you said, and playing off on your "divisive and you suck" statement, I prefer to think of it as risk-reward. By his choosing to become a social warrior in addition to his football duties, Kaepernick increased the risk side of his employment equation to the point where it out weighed the reward side, which had already been in steep decline. Teams aren't black balling him so much as they are expressing an unwillingness to assume the risk of his being an off field problem/locker room/PR issue for what has been for the past two years a diminishing reward.

[NorthHawk]

From what I've read, he didn't become a locker room cancer or divisive at all. He was simply a PR problem for the Front Office, not a team on the field problem.
That he has said his protest won't continue means the PR issue is off the table.

The biggest question is: Is he better than Boykin and with less risk?
I think the answer is yes.

[monkey]

With less risk of what? Less risk of being incarcerated? Yes. Less risk of alienating patriotic fans? No.
He is also going to command a MUCH bigger salary (which I note you didn't include in your calculations of risk).
He'll cost more and piss off loyal fans, to me that's every bit as risky, just in different ways.

BTW, this is just directed at anyone who has used this line of reasoning.
The next time I read, some version of "well, he wasn't a locker room cancer for the Niners, so..."I think I'll actively lose my mind.
No player rats out on other players, or they become so ostricised, they become such a pariah they can never get work.
No one is more hated in a locker room than the guy who squeals about who the locker room cancer is. So of course we've never heard him being called a locker room cancer br his former teammates...they never would, never publicly.
However, we HAVE heard the player's equivalent to calling him that! Remember all the blowback he got from teammates after he said all that stupid crap about Fidel Castro? Multiple players came out and called it "uninformed", "stupid", etc...
In other words, several players went out of their way to actively distance themselves from his rhetoric.
That's as close as it gets to players calling him a "cancer"

[monkey]

Hey, Primate! Great to see you again.

I agree with most of what you said, and playing off on your "divisive and you suck" statement, I prefer to think of it as risk-reward. By his choosing to become a social warrior in addition to his football duties, Kaepernick increased the risk side of his employment equation to the point where it out weighed the reward side, which had already been in steep decline. Teams aren't black balling him so much as they are expressing an unwillingness to assume the risk of his being an off field problem/locker room/PR issue for what has been for the past two years a diminishing reward.

risk / reward is a great way of looking at the whole thing. If this team weren't already dealing with all the rumors of division in the locker, and if his salary wouldn't be much higher than virtually all other backup QB's would be, and if there weren't other backups available, such as RG3, at a similar salary, and similar ability, with far less baggage, then maybe it would be worth the risk.
But RG3 is available, at roughly the same cost, with less baggage, and other players with less ability but who would cost far less against the cap, and with far less baggage are also available.
Too much risk for so little reward. The reward would be, if Wilson got hurt, Kaepernick could potentially fill in.
Of course there are several players available who could also fill in at least close to as well as Colin could with less baggage and or less financial risk.
Either way, if Wilson goes down, the Seahawks won't be winning any Superbowls. Not with Kaepernik or any other QB available.
So it's pretty though to see how his risk, which is literally the highest of any available potential backup QB, is worth the reward.
If you want a guy who can start, and who we'd have to pay a big check to, just go get RG3 and call it good.
At least he doesn't actively support Miami gangs, and hate this country.

[RiverDog]

Either way, if Wilson goes down, the Seahawks won't be winning any Superbowls. Not with Kaepernik or any other QB available.

The only argument against that logic would be if Wilson were to miss a few games a good backup could step in and hold the fort until he returns. But Russell would have to get hurt worse than he did last year as he was pretty damn injured yet for one reason or another, missed virtually no playing time. Something tells me that the only thing that's going to keep Russell from missing any time at all would be a season ending injury, which as you said, means no Super Bowl for us no matter who the backup is.

So what we're talking about is someone to hold Russell's tablet for him, so why take the undeniable risk we would incur by bringing in a guy with the type of baggage Kaepernick has if all he's going to do is stand on the sidelines?

[NorthHawk]

BTW, this is just directed at anyone who has used this line of reasoning.
The next time I read, some version of "well, he wasn't a locker room cancer for the Niners, so..."I think I'll actively lose my mind.
No player rats out on other players, or they become so ostricised, they become such a pariah they can never get work.
No one is more hated in a locker room than the guy who squeals about who the locker room cancer is. So of course we've never heard him being called a locker room cancer br his former teammates...they never would, never publicly.
However, we HAVE heard the player's equivalent to calling him that! Remember all the blowback he got from teammates after he said all that stupid crap about Fidel Castro? Multiple players came out and called it "uninformed", "stupid", etc...
In other words, several players went out of their way to actively distance themselves from his rhetoric.
That's as close as it gets to players calling him a "cancer"

It's also a way to avoid dealing with the press and may disagree with the method as they don't need the distraction. It doesn't mean they don't agree with the point he is trying to make.
Don't make more of it than it is. His protest is over and he won't be a distraction or cancer to any team he ends up with after the first few pre season games when he answers the same
questions over and over. Some players may even welcome the attention not being on them.

Sign him if the numbers work. He's better than the backup we have.

[RiverDog]

His protest is over and he won't be a distraction or cancer to any team he ends up with after the first few pre season games when he answers the same questions over and over.

So what makes you so sure that his protests are over?

[NorthHawk]

That's what he said.
What makes you think they will continue?

[monkey]

That's what he said.
What makes you think they will continue?

His Character. In fact the only reason I think he might stop is because he's scared of losing his livelihood, but his assurances alone certainly aren't reason enough! What about his character suggests trustworthiness?

Have you forgotten that his protests aren't the only knocks against him?
He hangs out with, has worn the colors of, and throws up hand signs for a violent Miami gang.
I'm sorry but that's inexcusable. That alone makes me hope he never, ever ends up here! That alone is enough for me! I don't need another reason to loathe him. He's a loser, as anyone who hangs with/emulates/or otherwise adds support or credibility to drug dealers, thieves, pimps and murders is a loser!
His Character.

The crap he has said about Fidel Castro makes him either mentally retarded or insane.

Add in his anti American protests, and this guy is locker room poison. You can't tell me that not one single person in the locker room is going to have a problem with his crap he spouts. Not one single person in the Seahawks locker room has a friend or family member in the military and feels something about his diss on veterans day?? Please. He's poison.

Remember how fans were so eager to believe that a former Mariners baseball player who didn't believe in dinosaurs was such a locker room cancer that multiple articles were written about it? Fans rushed to agree with the idea that he was a cancer, and yet a guy who protests the country that has made him a millionaire for throwing a ball around isn't? Hmm. I wonder what the difference was? Oh yeah politics!

You don't get to be a big fan of a mass murderer/communist dictator like Castro, and claim a moral high ground!

[NorthHawk]

You are letting your emotions overrule your head.
It's about basic freedoms which I always come back to.
At the core of liberty is freedom of speech and it's there not to protect those statements we agree with, but to protect those statements that make us feel uncomfortable.
That's the gift of free speech. We may not end up agreeing, but hopefully both sides can learn to be tolerant of the others.

In the case of the team and possible dysfunction because of him, I doubt it would occur.
Consider his cause celebre. It is mostly about the African American Experience, but some others have experienced it, too.
Most of the team starters are African American. Maybe 3 or 4 starters are white and the obvious team leaders of Bennett, Baldwin, and Sherman have come out in favor of his actions and it didn't cause
a rift last year. Other things did, but this wasn't part of it.
I don't see any discord on the team resulting from him being signed. It will all blow over by the time the season starts if he is.

[RiverDog]

That's what he said.
What makes you think they will continue?

I didn't say I thought they'd continue. I don't know if they will or won't. The reason I asked you the question was that you seemed so sure of yourself so as to pronounce them over that I was wondering how you arrived at such a definitive conclusion. I thought you had some other rationale other than that's what he said.

Frankly I wouldn't trust the man any further than I could spit. It didn't seem to bother him one little bit to go against the grain of his own mother so it would wouldn't surprise me at all if he went against his word.

[obiken]

River, you and I have been at this a long time. Your smarter and less volatile than I am, but you and I know one thing, you have to have a franchise QB that is accurate and doesn't turn over the ball. We have that but a bad Offensive line. What we do not need is a pseudo QB who's mechanics are shot but who can make a couple of plays with his legs coming in here. It would be like throwing dynamite on a barbecue. You do not need to give Sherm and his group a guy to rally behind.