Kaepernick isn't a good fit for our scheme

[GHAWK206]

A lot of ppl are assuming that just bc Kaepernick is a dual threat QB that this automatically makes him a good fit for the Hawks scheme. I disagree. In order to be a QB in Carroll's system you have to be extremely accurate on the deep balls and in the quick rhythm throws which Kaep is not. Kaep has a super slow and long delivery and is a very inaccurate QB especially on the throws that require a lot of touch. We all know Kaep throws the ball with a lot of juice but that does him no good when his accuracy is so scattershot. The Hawks don't have tall, lanky receivers who can make up for Kaep's accuracy problems outside of Graham. With Kaep under center you're stuck running passing plays with half field reads out of bootleg, rollout and sprint. Kaep is not good in drops under center where he has to be a progression reader on full field reads sitting in the pocket.

When Chip Kelly was the Niners coach for a season he tried running his trademark offense with Gabbert and that was a fail. What happened when Gabbert got benched and Kaep became the starter? Kelly didn't even bother running his complex, fast break offense with Kaep bc Kaep couldn't handle it. Instead Kelly ran a watered down, remedial pistol offense for Kaepernick with extremely simplified passing plays. Chip Kelly even had the Niners huddling under Kaepernick which Kelly normally doesn't like having to do.

If Wilson goes down to injury and Kaep becomes our starter then Carroll will have to change the play-calling to fit Kaep's limits skill set bc Kaep won't be able to run 60% of our passing plays.Hawks don't have the most sophisticated passing offense in the NFL but it's going to become even more unsophisticated with Kaep under center. Coaches hate having to change the gameplan for their back up QB's bc it ruins the rhythm in the play-calling and is too difficult to deal with long term especially for the rest of the offensive players on the team who are used to doing things a certain way with the starting QB under center. Can Kaep become an explosive playmaker out of read option? Sure. But he's going to struggle with everything else especially staying in the pocket and keeping his eyes downfield. Kaep also takes off running from clean pockets which drives coaches crazy.This is why keep Boykin on the team-Boykin was a surprisingly accurate QB coming out of college along with being an electric playmaker when he took off running. When Wilson was pulled out of games the play calling remained the same for Boykin and Boykin slowly developed a good feel for our scheme over time. If Boykin can shake these criminal charges I think we should bring him back and give him another year in our offense. He's also going to come cheaper than Kaep's expected price tag.I'd much rather train a rookie QB our offense from scratch rather than teach a veteran backup our offense who's already played in four or five different offensive systems.(Kaepernick)

[c_hawkbob]

If Wilson goes down to injury and Kaep becomes our starter then Carroll will have to change the play-calling to fit Kaep's limits skill set bc Kaep won't be able to run 60% of our passing plays

Which is exactly how Pete was with Wilson his first season. He spent many games only letting Russ have the most rudimentary plays of our playbook and then only opened it up for him a little bit at a time as he felt he was able to handle it. It's also the way 90% of teams have to handle their playbook when their starter goes down and exactly what we did with Wilson as our injured starter for a few games last year too. Altering your playbook to suit your backup or your injured starter is just what coaches have to do in the NFL.

Kap's no Russell Wilson but he's seen NFL defenses and he's had success in the league as a starter, and even with a limited playbook if he can keep his 4 to 1 TD/int ratio and not be the one to lose games for us we still have a formidable enough defense to weather whatever time Russ might miss winning more games than we lose. There's a reason we risked letting Russ play injured rather than going to Boykin last year ... maybe if we have a decent backup we don't have to expose our starter that way going forward.

[Oly]

Welcome to the forum, GHAWK206! Stick around. I find this forum has more analysis and less irrational-fanboy/irrational-hater posts than just about any place else.

But on the question, I'm with bob. Nearly every backup will take the reins over a simplified offense. More importantly, though, is that Kap would mean that the running game wouldn't need to be simplified. I think Pete cares more about making sure the running game survives a season of injuries, and Kap could certainly run that part of the offense. If you have a backup that compromises either the passing game or the running game, I think Pete prefers the former.

[RiverDog]

Welcome to the forum, GHAWK206! Stick around. I find this forum has more analysis and less irrational-fanboy/irrational-hater posts than just about any place else.

Absolutely! We need an infusion of new posters. The one thing I like about this forum is that I almost always get a response when I post something. Some of these other forums get too big and your comments get lost in the crowd.

As far as my comments about the OP, my objection to bringing in Kaep in has little to do with football. I like to root for the good guys, and this POS isn't one of them.

[NorthHawk]

Welcome, GHAWK206.

You have an interesting viewpoint, but I agree with some of the other posters for the most part. I'm not dismissing your arguments, but rather a Backup is a Backup because he's not good enough to be the starter.
Therefore the playbook will have to be limited for him because of his limitations vs the starter. There was a time prior to the Salary Cap era when teams would have 2 starting caliber QB's but those days are gone.
I think the challenge for the coaches is to decide if they want an experienced backup or one that is very raw but with some potential. There are advantages to both but what is best for the team this year and next?

[Zorn76]

I think he'd fit our system ok - he's played enough to where he could function in it - but I'd rather not have him on the roster.

2016 saw some measurable dysfunction, mostly surrounding Sherman, and the last thing we need heading into a SB contending season is more distractions. As a backup, he'd have nothing much to talk about aside from the controversy he found himself in last year, or perhaps he'd continue to speak on what he believes ails the country.

Either way, we don't need him.

[NorthHawk]

We need a backup QB. I would rather one that has proven to be able to play at an NFL level than one that hasn't.
It depends on the price, however. We paid a couple of million for T. Jackson, but it's a different circumstance vis a vis the Cap this year.

[RiverDog]

We need a backup QB. I would rather one that has proven to be able to play at an NFL level than one that hasn't.
It depends on the price, however. We paid a couple of million for T. Jackson, but it's a different circumstance vis a vis the Cap this year.

Isn't Boykin still on the roster? He's got a year's experience in our offense, including some limited game experience, under his belt. Outside of his off field problem, what has he done to disqualify himself?

What we need is someone to push Boykin for that 2nd spot and be available in case either Russell or Boykin, for one reason or another, isn't available and needed to hold a clipboard.

[Feez]

Kaep is still a much better option than Boykin if Wilson misses any time. I am not saying he is great but certainly one of the better options for backup in the league. assuming he wants to play that role and will sign for cheap

[RiverDog]

Kaep is still a much better option than Boykin if Wilson misses any time. I am not saying he is great but certainly one of the better options for backup in the league. assuming he wants to play that role and will sign for cheap

Those are two huge assumptions. Rumor has it that he's lost his desire to play football. I'd much rather have someone like Boykin that's hungry.

[c_hawkbob]

Kaep is still a much better option than Boykin if Wilson misses any time. I am not saying he is great but certainly one of the better options for backup in the league. assuming he wants to play that role and will sign for cheap

Those are two huge assumptions. Rumor has it that he's lost his desire to play football. I'd much rather have someone like Boykin that's hungry.

I disagree. The fact that Pete, probably the most likely coach in the league to let a young guy play, chose to have play Wilson hurt rather than give Boykin a chance is the only real evidence we have of what Boykin is or is not capable of.

[RiverDog]

I disagree. The fact that Pete, probably the most likely coach in the league to let a young guy play, chose to have play Wilson hurt rather than give Boykin a chance is the only real evidence we have of what Boykin is or is not capable of.

Don't forget what time in the season that Russell got hurt in...first game of the year followed by another injury in the 3rd game. Boykin was a rookie suiting up for his first regular season game ever. Heaven forbid, but Pete might act differently if that same scenario were to play out this season.

[c_hawkbob]

Don't forget what time in the season that Russell got hurt in...first game of the year followed by another injury in the 3rd game. Boykin was a rookie suiting up for his first regular season game ever. Heaven forbid, but Pete might act differently if that same scenario were to play out this season.

Doesn't matter, the fact remains that Pete chose to expose Russ to further injury rather than to give Boykin a shot (the shot Russ had once). Everything else is just just assumptions. Yours, mine or whoever else's ... all we know for sure is that Pete chose not to use him in his assigned role last year.

[Largent80]

Whew, just got back from an awesome week getaway to SoCal. My feel on Kap is, just a short 3 years ago, he was the most hated rival of the Hawks, and I just don't want a Hawk uni on the dude.

Not only that but if you remember, his errant throw sent us to the Superbowl.

Do NOT want.

Boykin screwed up off the field, and deserves a last chance to play in the NFL. He has all the tools, we all saw glimpses of it, plus his price tag fits the Cap, not so for the Kap.

[RiverDog]

Whew, just got back from an awesome week getaway to SoCal. My feel on Kap is, just a short 3 years ago, he was the most hated rival of the Hawks, and I just don't want a Hawk uni on the dude.

Not only that but if you remember, his errant throw sent us to the Superbowl.

Do NOT want.

Boykin screwed up off the field, and deserves a last chance to play in the NFL. He has all the tools, we all saw glimpses of it, plus his price tag fits the Cap, not so for the Kap.

I got into a pretty good argument with Futureite on that point. IMO it was a perfectly thrown ball, or at the very least, not underthrown. Had Kaepernick thrown it far enough to get over Sherman's head it would have been over Crabtree's head as well or led him out of bounds. What was bad about that throw was that it was a poor decision to throw it. He was not under pressure and it wasn't a do-or-die situation. He didn't have to challenge Sherman.

[c_hawkbob]

What was bad about that throw was the coaches choice to call it (same as our XLIX throw on the 1 yd line).

If you've watched the 'mic'd up' show for that game (I'm pretty sure we all have) our defense knew from the feel of the game that they were going to try and win the game testing Sherman. IMO it was more hubris on Harbaugh's part than a poor play by Kap.

[Largent80]

Regardless of what anyone thinks of him as a player, do you think he would be willing to play backup for league minimum?

There is no money for a guy like him. Why do you think every team in the league has passed on him?....Is it his skill set?, or pricetag? or BOTH?

Austin Davis is coming in for a look today, I would rather have him than Kap.

[kalibane]

I'm in favor of signing Kaep personally. What I want in a back up QB for a super bowl contender is a guy who can come in and play well enough for the supporting cast to win a game and not make the back breaking mistakes. That's Kaep. It's not about system fit or finding someone that approximates Wilson. And let's be real that's not going to happen anyway.

He's limited in his ability to go through progressions and doesn't have great anticipation but he doesn't turn the ball over much and he has enough physical ability to keep us in games and make a play or two. The book on him is that in spite of his weaknesses he's a hard worker. And he has big game experience where even if he didn't win he wasn't the reason why they lost (they wouldn't have even been in that NFC championship game without him). If Wilson gets dinged up I'd have confidence he could steer the ship for 2-3 games.

I'd never want him as a full time starter but he'd be one of the top 3 backups in the league IMO, a better option than T Jack (who I always considered an asset in the backup role) and perhaps even Trent Dilfer. Plus there is a certain karmic enjoyment I'd get out of the fact that someone Niner fans used to swear up and down was Wilson's equal or better is now backing him up.

[Hawktawk]

Kap would get our receivers killed staring them down and locking on then throwing his flat missile of a ball, the only throw he has.Ask Vernon Davis.
Its the same throw that cost him the 2013 NFC title game, too flat, not enough arc on the ball.

RW scrambles to throw and runs when there is nothing else.
Kap runs to run and he doesn't seem to like doing it much anymore so there goes his biggest weapon. It seemed to me in his brief heyday in 2012 and 13 it was his ever present threat to run extremely well that left guys wide open so he could rocket in his missile ball. Once he tried to transition to a more traditional pocket passer its been downhill ever since.Harbaugh may have had a part in that transition but hes been gone a couple of years now.

Beyond that it was reported he was MIA as a team leader in SF, aloof and disengaged. Add to that his political BS which was completely over the top IMO and the guy brings huge baggage to the 12s more than anything else.
I wont quit watching my Hawks I've watched for 40 years but I wont be happy.

I see this move as a loser for Seattle.Where is the big upside for the huge fan PR and team chemistry gamble?
Give me Boiken any day, at least 1 more chance anyway.Way more big time NFL arm and young and cheap.

Besides if Russ wasn't going to come off the field last year he never will till he leaves in FA someday or retires.

[monkey]

I'm not sure how well he would fit, I could see arguments either way really, but I see no reason to think that he would fit any better or worse than RG3, for example.
Similar players, not able to run complex offenses, but can do some things well enough that at one time, people were high on them.
My bone of contention is more, how polarizing he is, and whether his skills offset the risk of a further divided locker (if it actually is, and this isn't just more media noise).

I'm just saying that, if we want someone whose skills are those of a borderline starter (I see no need for that personally, I'd rather see them get someone they can from to eventually take over the role), which would cost more than the typical backup QB, then why not get the one without the huge baggage?

I contend that the media is pushing for Kaepernik, because of his politics, in site of the fact that it would make more sense for the Seahawks to avoid that added controversy, and get a comparable player without that baggage.
Adding Kaepernik to the Seahawks is a media wet dream. That's why we've seen so many stories (always positive notice), about it lately.

[burrrton]

I'm in favor of signing Kaep personally.

I agree with many of the knocks on him (and I haven't hid my distaste for his antics), but this is my position, too, assuming the money works out.

[Hawktawk]

[

Don't forget what time in the season that Russell got hurt in...first game of the year followed by another injury in the 3rd game. Boykin was a rookie suiting up for his first regular season game ever. Heaven forbid, but Pete might act differently if that same scenario were to play out this season.

Doesn't matter, the fact remains that Pete chose to expose Russ to further injury rather than to give Boykin a shot (the shot Russ had once). Everything else is just just assumptions. Yours, mine or whoever else's ... all we know for sure is that Pete chose not to use him in his assigned role last year.[/quote]

I don't really buy that. I think PC understands that Wilson at 50% is better than most guys, Boyken and sure as hell Krapperdik at 100%. He also respected the guy enough that if he were going to get up every 2 hours in the middle of the night for treatment for several weeks PC was going to let him play unless he was completely unable to function.

Boyken played some. I saw him live at the end of the Carolina game and he looked like Wilson except maybe with a stronger arm if that's possible. He completed a deep out to Kearse right in front of us and the ball was whistling and deadly accurate back shoulder.

Most famously he played the final 11 minutes vs Krap and Frisco on the road after PC inexplicably yanked Wilson (or put Boykin in his role). He was wobbly at first with a turnover but as the defense began to break down he calmly salted away the game with great athleticism and accuracy on a clinching drive. Were it not for his bar altercation at his bowl game the dude would possibly have gone higher in the draft than Krap.I beleive he was the highest rated passer in college football that season and with lightning quicks
As for Dorks being less likely to be arrested maybe but its only been a few years he was investigated for rape after a wild party in Miami involving lots of alcohol and weed which he was reportedly ingesting. Ricardo Lockette was also involved BTW.Granted he wasn't charged but the truth was somewhere in the middle at best.
These aren't choir boys either one of them.
Krap can stay on the bench on his Arse somewhere else. Lets remember his protest didn't start kneeling but sitting on his arse n the bench looking like a complete dufus which he is.
NO NO NO!!!!!Boykin any day.

[c_hawkbob]

You don't buy what?

Your quote is messed up; it's go what Dog said attributed to me and what I said run in with your response ...

[Hawk Sista]

Hey Bob... I know this comment is OT, but I love your new Avtar. Who is that sweet baby?

[c_hawkbob]

Hey Bob... I know this comment is OT, but I love your new Avtar. Who is that sweet baby?

That's my newest grandson Ethan! He's 7 months old and is a total character!

[Hawk Sista]

HE IS BEAUTIFUL! Congrats, Bob. I see you are raising him to be a 12.

Our 3 year old nephew, Ethan just graduated from high school and is headed to college (ok, he's 3 in my mind & 18 in real life). Enjoy the handsome lad and raise him right. He's got a great name and and a super awesome Grandfather!

[burrrton]

He's got a great name and and a super awesome Grandfather!

The name's awesome, but his Grandfather is just ok... (congrats, Robert!)

[Rideaducati]

Kaepernick sucks and if he is ever needed to play the only way he will be able to win is with his legs. He has never hit a wide receiver in stride and has zero touch.

[c_hawkbob]

HE IS BEAUTIFUL! Congrats, Bob. I see you are raising him to be a 12.

Our 3 year old nephew, Ethan just graduated from high school and is headed to college (ok, he's 3 in my mind & 18 in real life). Enjoy the handsome lad and raise him right. He's got a great name and and a super awesome Grandfather!

Of course I'm raising to be a 12! and thanks, grandfatherhood is so much cooler than fatherhood!