Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

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Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby RiverDog » Thu May 25, 2017 11:37 am

Posted on ESPN.com this morning....

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/1944 ... m-nfl-2017

And already Michael Bennett has blasted it as gossip:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/mic ... spartanntp

My take is that there's no way of telling how much, if anything, in this article is true, but there's been enough rumblings coming out of the Hawks locker room that I feel that there has to be at least some truth to it, that there's an unhealthy friction between Russell Wilson/Pete Carroll and players on our defense.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby MackStrongIsMyHero » Thu May 25, 2017 12:21 pm

I hope it is mountains out of molehills, but Sherman does need to put some things in perspective. As good as the defense has been, they've had some very questionable games/moments. I still can't forget the game I went to in St. Louis in 2014 where Austin Davis was able to torch the defense on critical plays; wouldn't be surprised if that was the best statistical game of his career. Or the fact that TE's blasted the LOB last year. Or where was the pass rush against Atlanta in the divisional round last season? What about against Houston in 2015 where, yes, Sherman made the game tying pick-6, but Wilson also had to run for his life and put the game on his back offensively to be in a position for a pick-6 to tie the game. And the numerous comebacks have to be considered.

If Sherman wants to be upset about the last offensive play Seattle ran in the Super Bowl loss, then go ahead; no fan or team member out there is happy about it, and I'm sure many have not gotten over it completely. As far as the defense being more deserving, no, they aren't. The defense has been culpable for losses just as the offense has, but, given the amount of money spent on the defense compared to the offense, the expectations should be higher. Imagine only Sherman with nothing but league minimum to average salaried players at the rest of the positions on defense. He would produce, but he can't do everything on defense. Want to blame lack of production a la Arizona and Tampa last year? Get mad at the lack of offensive line spending which is directly correlated to having to pay Sherman, Thomas, Bennett, Chancellor, Wagner, Wright, and Avril.

Sherman also needs to realize that, as good as he is, he will never be as valuable as a franchise quarterback. Seldom are any other players the face of the franchise; that's just the way it is. Again, I want this to be nothing but rumors, but, if it isn't, Sherman needs to step back and get some perspective.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby c_hawkbob » Thu May 25, 2017 12:41 pm

ESPN trying to be the news rather than reporting it.

It's primarily based on a practice incident from 2014. It's only a headline now because of the "Sherman being shopped" headlines before the draft.

As for the incident in question, in the real world tempers getting hot in practice is a total non story (which is why it wasn't at the time).
Michael Bennett ✔ @mosesbread72
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/1944 ... m-nfl-2017 … @espn @ESPNNFL

this article is trash and should be on tmz it's all gossip I'm Surprised this came from you
9:47 AM - 25 May 2017
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby Hawk Sista » Thu May 25, 2017 12:55 pm

:shock: :o As much as I would like to believe Bennett, I think the article is SPOT ON! The good news is that folks on the team seem to be locked and loaded for 2017 and things seem like they are headed in the right direction.

There are things about Sherm that remind me of my younger self, so while he frustrates me, I understand. I was quick to blame others and didn't look at the whole of situation before getting pissed and there were not millions of people watching me. Annnnnd, I can also understand that Pete and Russell's positive rehearsed pressers would piss me off had I just held a team to 6 points only to end in a tie. I can actually identify with the frustration.

But as we have all said so many times, I also see the whole of the situation. All of the other points have been made in the article or in here. . . like:
Imagine only Sherman with nothing but league minimum to average salaried players at the rest of the positions on defense. He would produce, but he can't do everything on defense. Want to blame lack of production a la Arizona and Tampa last year? Get mad at the lack of offensive line spending which is directly correlated to having to pay Sherman, Thomas, Bennett, Chancellor, Wagner, Wright, and Avril.
That is SEVEN franchise type defensive starters who have worked together for years. Compare that to what RW has to endure on the o-line and maybe RW could yell at John, Pete and Tom and say "WTF??? are you trying to get me killed?" Different guys, different approaches.

Here is hoping that Sherm can not only come back to the team, but serve in a leadership role so that others follow suit. As much as we need some semblance of cohesion on the o-line to have a chance, we need this to happen just as much.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby c_hawkbob » Thu May 25, 2017 2:01 pm

Well Sherman was just on XM dismissing the article as trash too. I'm glad he responded quickly too, if he hadn't the look may not have been good.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby Hawktawk » Thu May 25, 2017 2:05 pm

Why doesn't Bevell get any blame? I swear he must have compromising photos of PC or something. I don't really blame the D for blowing a 10 point 4th quarter lead to Brady in 49. They entered the game the walking wounded and lost their only real answer for Edelman, Lane on a dirty hit from Edelman. Avril got KOd by a head butt. They were out of gas and out of players.

I agree with the former assistant coach( I wonder who it was? Quinn?). Russ threw a bad ball. He threw a softball high and in front, the only place Butler had a chance, as I had a battle royale with Anthony over.
He also stared down the right side of the formation just before the snap. Butler actually broke from 8 yards deep before the snap to be able to get over the top.

But really its on Bevell and PC if he signed off on the play as well. Butler was supposed to be the goat, the guy Kearse was supposed to get a rub on. But what were they were smoking to think Kearse was going to get a free release off of Browner? Not to mention Butler was a monster the entire second half of the game making plays several times to keep Seattle from padding its lead.

If you're throwing with that or any game on the line you don't throw it over the middle with 11 guys packed in a 10 yard box.
Bevfool lost us that game with that call more than anyone else did.But not one word of criticism then or ever from PC.Although Bevell had no problem tossing Lockette under the bus saying he could have gone harder to the ball.
Lock was the least responsible person for the debacle.

As for Sherm clearly there is animosity towards Wilson etc, Bevell as well I think he made that clear.But Sherm needs to look at some film of the legion of bust after ET got hurt. Check some game film of the Atlanta game that ended the season.

I owe Kalibane a retraction frankly. We had a pretty good dustup about Sherman vs Norman last preseason. Kal said they are the same guy. I strongly disagreed. Well last year especially they were except maybe Sherman was a bigger Ahole.

I hope there aren't fatal cracks in the foundation of this team.This stuff worries me.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby burrrton » Thu May 25, 2017 2:08 pm

I hope it is mountains out of molehills, but Sherman does need to put some things in perspective. As good as the defense has been, they've had some very questionable games/moments.


I think it *is* mountains out of molehills, but I agree that whatever degree Sherm still stews about XLIX, he needs to remember the defense coughed up a late 10pt lead- there's plenty of blame to go around for that outcome.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby RiverDog » Fri May 26, 2017 6:26 am

I hate to blow my own horn, but after SB 49, I said right then and there that getting this team over that loss was going to be as big of a challenge for Pete as building this team into the contender that we are, and so far, for one reason or another, we have yet to meet that challenge and get back to where we were before that fateful play. It was one of the most demoralizing losses in pro football history. That's why I favored firing Bevell within weeks of the game.

In the long run, it would have been better for us to lose by two touchdowns than it would have to lose the way we did.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby Hawk Sista » Fri May 26, 2017 8:17 am

While I agree that it would have been better to lose by the 10 points we were down, I don't think that all of the frustration and friction stem from that one play. Had we won, it would have been a nice salve to smear atop the issues, but I think there would still be some challenges. The play epitomized the division in many ways and obviously had a big (ok, enourmous) impact.

I think there are many elements that led to this point, stardom being a big one.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby Rambo2014 » Fri May 26, 2017 9:17 am

Man you guys have a really zoo going on there now! LOL

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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby Hawktawk » Fri May 26, 2017 9:49 am

Id rather be the Hawks in 49 than Atlanta in 51. Any day.
I watched that game over once on Tivo. Im proud of our team. They battled hard vs a great team and were a yard away from being a dynasty in a season that started with utter chaos.

It was gut wrenching and still is but a 25 point lead with 8 minutes left in the 3rd quarter? Yeah our loss was bad but nothing like that.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby RiverDog » Fri May 26, 2017 12:38 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Id rather be the Hawks in 49 than Atlanta in 51. Any day.
I watched that game over once on Tivo. Im proud of our team. They battled hard vs a great team and were a yard away from being a dynasty in a season that started with utter chaos.

It was gut wrenching and still is but a 25 point lead with 8 minutes left in the 3rd quarter? Yeah our loss was bad but nothing like that.


Good point, and I agree.

Nevertheless, it does little to diminish my point, which was that recovering from that loss in SB 49 was nearly as big of a challenge for Pete as was building this team in the first place and that we haven't been the same team since that fateful play.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby NorthHawk » Fri May 26, 2017 1:30 pm

The Offensive Line was left to devolve after that game, too. That's on the Front Office including PC.
With Lynch getting banged up and worse blocking, it was a matter of time before the Defense got pizzed off about no support.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby Hawktawk » Fri May 26, 2017 2:48 pm

RiverDog wrote:
Nevertheless, it does little to diminish my point, which was that recovering from that loss in SB 49 was nearly as big of a challenge for Pete as was building this team in the first place and that we haven't been the same team since that fateful play.

And I agree with you as well for the most part although quite frankly I might have expected it to be a little worse than its been. Russ had a career year the following season and shattered numerous team records. The team led the league in total defense the following season as well. They have made it to the division round both seasons and are still a media darling to be one of the teams with a chance to win it all.Of course the media doesn't suit up.

Ill be curious to see how Dan Quinn and the Falcons do this year. SB losses have wrecked teams and there have never been ones like 49 and 51 in my memory. Maybe the titans stopped on the 1? not one like Atl for damn sure.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby curmudgeon » Fri May 26, 2017 5:58 pm

Bevfool & Cable. Therein lies the problem.......
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Sat May 27, 2017 7:09 pm

Darrell Bevell is the cancer that is destroying the unity the team used to have. I don't believe the players like Bennett and Sherman dislike Wilson, it is their head coach's "love" for DB that angers them. Anybody else, any other player or coach would have been kicked to the curb a long time ago. BUT, Pete absolutely will NOT fire the guy.

I can understand loyalty, but PC is just being obstinate and is refusing to admit that he made a mistake not only in hiring the guy but in keeping him on.

But, you know what? I just cannot get excited about Pro football or anything else while our great nation is being torn asunder by an existential threat named TRUMP. So, right now I am having a hard time giving a hoot what ever Pete does or not because right now it doesn't much matter.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby burrrton » Sun May 28, 2017 9:23 am

But, you know what? I just cannot get excited about Pro football or anything else while our great nation is being torn asunder by an existential threat named TRUMP.


Get a grip- the country has survived countless sh*tty Presidents, and it'll survive this one, too.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby Oly » Sun May 28, 2017 11:20 am

Seahawks4Ever wrote:But, you know what? I just cannot get excited about Pro football or anything else while our great nation is being torn asunder by an existential threat named TRUMP. So, right now I am having a hard time giving a hoot what ever Pete does or not because right now it doesn't much matter.


While I share your hatred for Trump, unless it's a clearly marked OT thread let's keep threads squarely inside the political DMZ. :-)

Go Hawks!
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby Hawktawk » Wed May 31, 2017 5:56 am

Baldwin was asked the other day whether RW gets a pass from PC. Answer "I don't know". He went on to say PC is great at accommodating personalities including RW, Sherm and he himself ADB.
But he didn't take the love ya bro approach of Justin Britt etc. to his QB who feeds him more often than any other receiver. As with many great QB receiver combos he often makes Russ look good on basically uncatchable balls he reels in however.
There is a dynamic tension with this team. It could cut two ways, I hope it adds focus and urgency, not disintegration.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed May 31, 2017 7:13 am

Baldwin's answer had the advantage of being real.

What he actually said was:

“I don’t know,” Baldwin said. “Honestly, I didn’t even read the entire article. I read parts of it. Didn’t really have time to read the whole thing. I think Pete does a fantastic job of handling different individuals differently. We all have our different personalities. We all act different ways. And Pete does a fantastic job of accommodating those personalities. He’s done it with me. He’s done it with Russ, with [Sherman], with [Marshawn Lynch], with all of us. And he does a great job at it.”


Reality. No sour grapes, none of the "choosing sides" the media is trying to pretzel it as, just reality.

Truth is coaches don't treat everybody the same, never have.

The media wants to make an issue out of Russ getting treated with kid gloves but NOBODY could blow off Pete and do what he wanted to regardless of what a play called for like Marshawn!

It ain't no thing. Jordan Rules: stars get treated differently. Deal with it.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby NorthHawk » Wed May 31, 2017 7:56 am

Darrell Bevell is the cancer that is destroying the unity the team used to have. I don't believe the players like Bennett and Sherman dislike Wilson, it is their head coach's "love" for DB that angers them. Anybody else, any other player or coach would have been kicked to the curb a long time ago. BUT, Pete absolutely will NOT fire the guy.


That's an interesting observation that might have some validity.
Maybe some players do see it as the coaches not having to be accountable and a 'head on a stick' would have put some salve on the wound.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby Feez » Wed May 31, 2017 11:17 am

I don't buy it for a second for one reason alone. Bennett called it trash if anyone would have said it was true if it was it would be him. he is not afraid to voice unpopular opinions and he says there is nothing behind it then there isn't. I think if anything it's Sherman who can't let go of it and the lone person who feels like this article says the whole defense does.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby Aseahawkfan » Wed May 31, 2017 5:51 pm

Once the season starts, none of this will matter unless we start losing. Then it will "the reason" we're losing to some.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby RiverDog » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:15 am

Aseahawkfan wrote:Once the season starts, none of this will matter unless we start losing. Then it will "the reason" we're losing to some.


Yep. Winning cures all evils, losing brings out the worst of them.

But if there is any truth to these rumors about a locker room division, it won't take very much losing to expose them. This is an extremely competitive team that's used to success.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby obiken » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:31 am

Yep. Winning cures all evils, losing brings out the worst of them.

But if there is any truth to these rumors about a locker room division, it won't take very much losing to expose them. This is an extremely competitive team that's used to success.


Yeah, Russell may have to go. He has become a liability because he is only half black. We have to keep Sherm and the defense in tact. :)


NOT really!! We went to the SB with a B+ corner and an average off corner. We won the SB with WR by committee. You can win the SB with RB by committee, ala the Denver Broncos. You cannot win the SB with a turnover machine at QB. Trent Dilfer was RW lite. Sorry, Sherm needs to read Instant Replay with Jerry Kramer. Lombardi, who treated everyone like dogs, miffed Kramer by his kid gloves on Bart Starr. He stated "Lombardi might have well of said you too Bart baby." Griese was treated way different by Shula, get over it. RW was hammered last year with a bad OL. Sherman and the rest need to get off his case and do their jobs, period.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby RiverDog » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:39 am

Quarterbacks always have and always will get preferential treatment, starting with the red jerseys they wear at practice. It's the single most important position on the field, and its importance has only increased over the decades. They're artists and musicians of the work group vs. the other players being mechanics and plumbers.

Plus as Cbob stated, just as in the movies, there's always been a star system. The movie production revolves around the star of the show. That is, unless the head coach is Mike Holmgren, then he becomes "The Show." :lol:
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:28 pm

The author of the article has doubled down on his assertions of a split locker room, particularly as it pertains to Russell . Wickersham said players confided that tell the truth Monday means everyone but Wilson because there's never any accountability for him

I dunno he's been terrific overall but his exit interview after the Atlanta loss was unsettling and annoying .

Hopefully we're all celebrating another Lombardi in feb and this is a blip on the radar screen. I can't wait to find out . Come on football!!!!!
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby Largent80 » Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:30 pm

We finally have our franchise QB. Personally I am enjoying every minute of it, and I don't care if the players can't let go of the play in 49.

It's a game that they are payed handsomely to play, and while it is emotional, a CB like Sherman should just move on to the next play, game, and/or year and focus on whats in front of the team.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby Anthony » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:46 pm

HMm I guess this was fake news then

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/seat ... hes-111915

Or the fact Wilson himself takes responsibility after every loss, or bad game. Seems to me I don't often hear Sherman or others do that

https://www.google.com/search?num=100&q ... yVVChkfVuI

In fact, I googled the same thing only put in Shermans name, guess what not one time did he take the blame for anything, not even his defense allowing a 10 point lead to slip in 9 minutes, or another lead to slip in 24 seconds.

Seems to me the writer is full of SH&T
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:13 am

The philosophy in building this team was to get the most competitive and athletic players they could find.
Along with that often comes big pride and big egos.
Pete's coaching philosophy is in part to let his players develop fully as people so he doesn't rein in the personalities as other coaches might.

The results are some dissension amongst the players who have won it all and expect to win every time they step on the field.
As no team can win it all every year, this is to be expected by a few and I'm a little surprised we only hear about Sherman, but it comes with the territory.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby RiverDog » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:22 am

NorthHawk wrote:As no team can win it all every year, this is to be expected by a few and I'm a little surprised we only hear about Sherman, but it comes with the territory.


Sherman is the most vocal and the one of the few on our team that wears his emotions on his sleeve. Even if they had a mouthful, you wouldn't expect Bobby or Earl to say something because it would be out of character for them to do so. But there's no surprise when you see Richard Sherman being right in the middle of something.
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Re: Revealing Article or Making Mountains out of Moehills?

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:30 am

Yup. There are a couple like Sherm (thinking Bennett for one) and others like ET (Wagner being one of those), but that's what happens when a coach lets players be themselves.
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