Colin Kaepernick

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby RiverDog » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:47 pm

burrrton wrote:That's emphatically *not* what people said about Reagan when elected. You just made RD's point for him.


Boy, do I remember what was being said about Reagan. I can remember one occasion when during a radio broadcast, he didn't realize that he was being recorded and joking around, said something to the effect that "I've just signed legislation that will outlaw the Soviet Union. We begin bombing in 10 minutes." The libs just went berserk, claiming it as evidence that he was trigger happy. They personally attacked him and the First Lady. The rhetoric from the opposition is very similar then to what it is today, with the big difference being that Reagan didn't let it bother him whereas Trump goes ballistic at even the slightest criticism.

There were a lot of really bad things said about Reagan during the 80's, and IMO the times he presided over marked the beginning of this very caustic, mean spirited competitiveness between the two parties that has lasted to this day. Even during the Watergate era, there wasn't the amount of mud slinging that's being done nowadays.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby monkey » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:16 pm

Of yeah, I'll never forget, Reagan was just a failed actor, a cowboy whose finger should never be anywhere near the button.
It course, they've been using that tired line since Goldwater.
The media always does this, Reagan was a senile lunatic, Bush jr. Was the stupidest person alive, Donald Trump is a reprobate. None of them were qualified.
Clinton and Obama on the other hand, they walked on water.
Remember when the members of the press actually shouted down one of their own, who dared ask a semi tough question of the anointed one, Barack Obama?

Let's be honest here the media it's over 93% left, that's just a fact, pretending there isn't a huge left bias is absurd.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby RiverDog » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:10 am

monkey wrote:Of yeah, I'll never forget, Reagan was just a failed actor, a cowboy whose finger should never be anywhere near the button.
It course, they've been using that tired line since Goldwater.
The media always does this, Reagan was a senile lunatic, Bush jr. Was the stupidest person alive, Donald Trump is a reprobate. None of them were qualified.
Clinton and Obama on the other hand, they walked on water.
Remember when the members of the press actually shouted down one of their own, who dared ask a semi tough question of the anointed one, Barack Obama?

Let's be honest here the media it's over 93% left, that's just a fact, pretending there isn't a huge left bias is absurd.


93% is a stretch, but there's definitely a liberal bias in the mainstream press, has been since the days of Kennedy vs. Nixon, and yea, they did like to cast conservatives as dumb while overlooking performances of their own lot. But it's not nearly the factor today as it was 20+ years ago as there are so many more sources of information nowadays.

But I do agree with Sis in her appraisal of DJT. He's way too thin skinned to be sitting in the Oval Office. Let's hope that he grows into the job.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:59 am

RiverDog wrote:[

93% is a stretch, but there's definitely a liberal bias in the mainstream press, has been since the days of Kennedy vs. Nixon, and yea, they did like to cast conservatives as dumb while overlooking performances of their own lot. But it's not nearly the factor today as it was 20+ years ago as there are so many more sources of information nowadays.

But I do agree with Sis in her appraisal of DJT. He's way too thin skinned to be sitting in the Oval Office. Let's hope that he grows into the job.


Having banned my former channel Faux permanently other than tuning in for literally 5 minutes a week to reinforce my hatred of their complicity I can assure you most other media is much more balanced than before. Granted Faux's success shoved them that way.
There are numerous conservatives and advocates of trump who are invited on mainstream news programs. Many are refusing to come and defend the guy publicly. Morning Joe (a republican host on MSNBC) invited every republican on the senate panel this morning and all declined to stand by their man.

Tune to Faux for 5 minutes and its all trump all the time, literally parroting Kellyanne Conway, Sean Spicer and the new dumbass Sarah Huckabee's utter nonsense, defending the mad tweeter etc.
Although Neil Cavuto broke ranks and said to Trump, "stop blaming the media and fake news. you are the fake news, you are the problem."
The backlash from the lunatic fringe viewers has been swift but he has doubled down. Its bad news for Trump if he loses faux.
MSNBC has passed FAUX in the Nielsen's and Rachel Maddow, a pit bull critic of Trump who digs for the hidden facts is the # 1 cable personality.

I think much as the polls underestimated Trumps strength as a candidate I think they underestimate his unpopularity now. Republicans who continue to defend this guy are walking the plank next election cycle.

And get real RD. The dude is almost 71, he's a lifelong bipolar narcissist whose brain function is clearly in decline as more and more people are noticing and commenting on.
He's not growing into anything but a lunatic.
America has never been in such peril as with the headless horseman in the white house.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby RiverDog » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:06 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Having banned my former channel Faux permanently other than tuning in for literally 5 minutes a week to reinforce my hatred of their complicity I can assure you most other media is much more balanced than before. Granted Faux's success shoved them that way.
There are numerous conservatives and advocates of trump who are invited on mainstream news programs. Many are refusing to come and defend the guy publicly. Morning Joe (a republican host on MSNBC) invited every republican on the senate panel this morning and all declined to stand by their man.

Tune to Faux for 5 minutes and its all trump all the time, literally parroting Kellyanne Conway, Sean Spicer and the new dumbass Sarah Huckabee's utter nonsense, defending the mad tweeter etc.
Although Neil Cavuto broke ranks and said to Trump, "stop blaming the media and fake news. you are the fake news, you are the problem."
The backlash from the lunatic fringe viewers has been swift but he has doubled down. Its bad news for Trump if he loses faux.
MSNBC has passed FAUX in the Nielsen's and Rachel Maddow, a pit bull critic of Trump who digs for the hidden facts is the # 1 cable personality.

I think much as the polls underestimated Trumps strength as a candidate I think they underestimate his unpopularity now. Republicans who continue to defend this guy are walking the plank next election cycle.

And get real RD. The dude is almost 71, he's a lifelong bipolar narcissist whose brain function is clearly in decline as more and more people are noticing and commenting on.
He's not growing into anything but a lunatic.
America has never been in such peril as with the headless horseman in the white house.


No one is denying that Fox is conservatively biased, but IMO no more than MSNBC is liberally biased.

If you go back and look at the election polls, they weren't that far off. Hillary had a 2% point lead going into the last week, and that's exactly the amount she won the popular vote with. Besides, most polls have an error of plus or minus 3-4%, so once the numbers got within that region, the election was truly too close to call. Additionally, if you look at how the numbers were progressing since the end of the conventions, there was a gradual move away from Clinton and towards Trump. What was off was the analysis. I saw some analysts giving Clinton an 80% chance of winning the election. I really think that many in the media had a hard time believing that Trump could win.

I'm not disagreeing with your analysis of Trump's personality. What I'm disagreeing with was your characterization of him being dumb or that his IQ is 50 points lower than Nixon. That is categorically false. Donald Trump is well education and has proven his savvy by being a very successful businessman.

As far as the country having never been in such peril, I say poppy cock. I'll take today's situation over that of the 60's and 70's any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Political assassinations, massive race riots, a raging war that divided the country, followed up by Watergate and double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, almost double digit unemployment, nuclear war on our doorstep. ASF is right, the country runs on cruise control no matter who sits in the Oval Office.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:30 pm

Until there is an international crisis.
What he'll do then is anyone's guess as opposed to days gone by when we were sure who our enemies were and that we had a reasonable hand on the controls.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby monkey » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:04 pm

Riverdog 93%is an exact number, extracted from a Harvard (iirc) study on the subject.
It's not a stretch it's an answer to the question asked in a scholarly poll.
I can't link to the article from my phone right now, but go to the Washington Post and look for the study that shows just 7% of media/journalists identify as Republican, (the rest identify as Democrats, or independent for the sake of the poll which of course means that there are communist, Green party etc...) and that those who identify as Democrats outnumber Republicans more than four to one.
Is fact my friend.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby monkey » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:15 pm

NorthHawk wrote:Until there is an international crisis.
What he'll do then is anyone's guess as opposed to days gone by when we were sure who our enemies were and that we had a reasonable hand on the controls.

Ha ha you mean like when Obama had his hands on the control, and decided that our new friends are Russia, ("Tell Vlad that I'll have more flexibility after the election".), Cuba, and Iran, and our new enemy is Israel? You remember them right? The nation whose elections were actually interfered with, by our own president!

No offense but you couldn't have said something more outlandish and inverse from the truth.
Where have you been living the last eight years?
No president has done more to confuse our allies and enemies as to where they stand than Obama.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby kalibane » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:17 pm

RiverDog wrote:No one is denying that Fox is conservatively biased, but IMO no more than MSNBC is liberally biased.



That use to be true in MSNBC's hey day of Keith Olberman followed by Maddow but that's not the case. MSNBC is still not a good source IMO and I can't watch it but they have dismissed quite a few of their liberal personalities (O'Donnell was just on the chopping block but apparently got a last minute stay from the Governor) and hired more conservatives bringing the network slightly back towards the center (business decision, they decided being the liberal "Fox" wasn't profitable). Fox on the other hand has gone completely off the deep end.

I can't remember which story it was, either the Kushner being revealed as the person of interest in the Russia Investigation or the revelation that Comey was asked to back off of the Russia investigation by Trump, but basically it was a one of those bombshells that implied possible collusion or obstruction of justice by a sitting president. It rightfully was front page of every newspaper. It rightfully led off and took up most of the coverage of every new program. But not Fox. Instead they were reporting on some mundane detail of the long dead Clinton E-Mail server investigation and just completely ignoring the story.

Fox has become a flat out propaganda machine and that is not hyperbole. They no longer just spin stories. They are actively spreading misinformation and willfully ignoring stories that hurt the current administration.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:30 pm

monkey wrote:Until there is an international crisis.
What he'll do then is anyone's guess as opposed to days gone by when we were sure who our enemies were and that we had a reasonable hand on the controls.

Ha ha you mean like when Obama had his hands on the control, and decided that our new friends are Russia, ("Tell Vlad that I'll have more flexibility after the election".), Cuba, and Iran, and our new enemy is Israel? You remember them right? The nation whose elections were actually interfered with, by our own president!

No offense but you couldn't have said something more outlandish and inverse from the truth.
Where have you been living the last eight years?
No president has done more to confuse our allies and enemies as to where they stand than Obama.


So now we have a guy who apparently loves dictators and Emir's but has little time for democratically elected heads of governments.
Putin - Yup
Dutuerte - Yup
Assissi -Yup
Emir of Saudi Arabia - Yup

NATO Leaders - Not so much.
European Leaders - Not so much.

Where do his loyalties lie other than to Donald Trump?
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby monkey » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:34 pm

What are you talking about? Obama made deals with Iran and Cuba. Dude, you've got nothing that compares to that! He made a deal with Iran to give them nukes!!!
#End debate.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby RiverDog » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:20 pm

monkey wrote:Riverdog 93%is an exact number, extracted from a Harvard (iirc) study on the subject.
It's not a stretch it's an answer to the question asked in a scholarly poll.
I can't link to the article from my phone right now, but go to the Washington Post and look for the study that shows just 7% of media/journalists identify as Republican, (the rest identify as Democrats, or independent for the sake of the poll which of course means that there are communist, Green party etc...) and that those who identify as Democrats outnumber Republicans more than four to one.
Is fact my friend.


I don't deny that there's a liberal bias in the mainstream press, or at least those that make up the White House press corps, and it used to make a big difference back in the 60's and 70's when there were a very limited number of news sources, basically the 3 major television networks (pre-CNN) and print newspapers and magazines.

But there are lots of other sources of information besides the mainstream press. For example, talk radio, which got it's start in the 1980's when AM radio stations began to lose listeners to the higher quality FM radio stations, is almost exclusively conservative. Rush Limbaugh alone claims 26 million listeners, Sean Hannity has half again that many.

I don't think that the liberal bias of the mainstream press has as much influence on the way people think. Basically most people are going to watch/listen to who ever floats their political boat, tells you what you want to hear.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Largent80 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:30 am

Trump would look good with Kaps hair.

In other news, is Melania blind?
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby RiverDog » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:12 pm

Largent80 wrote:In other news, is Melania blind?


Nope, just a gold digger.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Largent80 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:14 pm

RiverDog wrote:In other news, is Melania blind?


Nope, just a gold digger.[/quote]

But, being married she still has sex with that dude. OMG. Even if I were a woman gold digger I wouldn't do it.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Hawktawk » Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:44 pm

Shes not having sex with the dude. She wont even hold his hand. He disgusts her based on the body language. But they truly deserve one another, two users of others.

The whole family including his used car salesmen sons makes me ill. Americas P*ssy will never recover from this molestation.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby monkey » Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:11 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Shes not having sex with the dude. She wont even hold his hand. He disgusts her based on the body language. But they truly deserve one another, two users of others.

The whole family including his used car salesmen sons makes me ill. Americas P*ssy will never recover from this molestation.

Wow, so now you're an expert on the president's sex life?
You have got to be kidding me with this crap, at least pretend you are arguing from a set of facts, rather than the unreasoning hatred of the left.
This sort of thing really damages your credibility.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby NorthHawk » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:42 am

monkey wrote:What are you talking about? Obama made deals with Iran and Cuba. Dude, you've got nothing that compares to that! He made a deal with Iran to give them nukes!!!
#End debate.


Please. Learn what these deals were all about.

Cuba was opening relations with some more to maybe come in the future, nothing more and America continues its economic, commercial, and financial embargo. It's much less than the agreements with China who do the same things as Cuba has done and does.
Iran would be further along with their nuclear program without this agreement.
Prior to it they were enriching uranium to near weapons grade. That's what the Stuxnet worm was all about defeating. It was to limit their enrichment by destroying their centrifuges. Now there are inspections to ensure the enrichment is for domestic energy and in April the Trump administration certified that Iran was complying with the agreement.
#TheRealTruth
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby monkey » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:54 pm

Oh my... You really are duped.
I haven't the time nor the inclination to educate you/deprogram you, but the level of misinformation you've been fed and are now regurgitating is spooky.
The worst part is all the partial truths, and out of context facts.
I'll just say this, Obama made a deal that insures that Iran gets nuclear weapons, virtually guaranteeing that our children will have to go to war with that lunatic country, and you're defending it...

Inspections? Please don't make me laugh. Go do some actual research, try looking somewhere other than DNC sponsored websites or CNN. You spout talking points really well but you know nothing about the truth.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby monkey » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:29 pm

You know what? No. I'm not going to just let that go.
Do you know that Iran has already violated the agreement at least three times, smart guy?

Are you aware that they have literally 24 days to hide their activities before inspections can even take place according to the agreement??

Do you know what the most serious thing we can do to them, according to the agreement is, if they violate? Do you know what "snapback" is?

Have you actually read the agreement you are spouting off about or are you just regurgitating talking points?!?
Try actually reading it, (as mind numbingly difficult as it is to get through, because it's filled with double speak, legal jargon and rhetoric), because if you had actually done your homework before trying to lecture me, you would know what a pile of crap this deal is!

We've gone from sanctioning them for trying to make nukes, to paying billions to them, so they can make nukes later... That is the #truth.
My word, I haven't even mentioned yet, the underhanded despicable way that Obama went around Congress to avoid it being called what it is, A TREATY! That guy is a snake a conniving, deceitful, evil, loathsome subhuman wretch, who spent eight years shredding our constitution, after wiping his butt with it!

This deal is a travesty that will force our children and or Israel to at some point in time, deal with a nuclear armed Iran.
Don't come at me with talking points when you haven't done your homework!
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby burrrton » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:42 am

The Iran Deal might have been the most pathetic, spineless effort of an administration that made a habit of doing such things.

Even if you think the sanctions were having no effect (they were) and Iran's nuke capability was a foregone conclusion (it wasn't), Obama ceded almost literally every single point possible throughout the negotiations, bending over backwards in pursuit of a "legacy" accomplishment.

I won't go down the list of reasons why it was so bad (the genie's out of the bottle now, so no point), but it should suffice to say we're now a few years from legitimizing a nuclear terror state.

You want "scary"? That's scary.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:48 am

I'll defer to the experts like General Mattis and international legal scholars who think in general it's a deal that should be kept. As well, Clapper said it gives us eyes and ears within Iran we didn't have previously.
No deal is ever perfect and the sanctions were beginning to wobble before this agreement was struck as Russia and China were said to be wavering on continuing sanctions with Iran.
The fact is Iran was well on it's way to getting nuclear weapons and expected to have them by about this time (2016 - 2017). They don't have them yet and don't look like they will in the near future.

So what options did we have at the time?
Let them develop their weapons.
Attack them militarily.
Try to increase sanctions in an environment where major players are reluctant to continue.
Get a deal where they eliminate their stockpile of high grade uranium that could be processed to weapon grade or plutonium relatively quickly and have some type of verification all the while ensuring the limited uranium they can produce is kept to levels useful for power or medicine.

It is also the first time a country has ever given up its sovereignty over weapons production or advancement without military conflict. That's a lot for any country so it's doubtful a better deal could have and can be had.
Again, it's not perfect, but it's better than the alternatives at the time or today.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby burrrton » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:13 pm

I'll defer to the experts like General Mattis and international legal scholars who think in general it's a deal that should be kept.


That's because, as I said, the genie's out of the bottle now. The sanctions are *never* coming back with Russia and China having veto power, and so on.

It's now certain we're going to have a terror state with nuclear weapons, and you can thank Obama for that.

Again, it's not perfect, but it's better than the alternatives at the time or today.


It's the best we have today for the reason I alluded to- it's ridiculous historical revisionism to say it's the best we could do in 2015. There's nobody but Obama and his disinformation team that believed that then or now.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Rambo2014 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:17 pm

Seahawk fan trump haters probably could not get laid by a 80 yo grandpa
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:58 pm

So Lambs fan Cheeto voters get all the 80 year old grandma (uh, grandpa?, whatsamatteryou?) trim they can handle ... good for you.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:11 pm

burrrton wrote:That's because, as I said, the genie's out of the bottle now. The sanctions are *never* coming back with Russia and China having veto power, and so on.

It's now certain we're going to have a terror state with nuclear weapons, and you can thank Obama for that.

[It's the best we have today for the reason I alluded to- it's ridiculous historical revisionism to say it's the best we could do in 2015. There's nobody but Obama and his disinformation team that believed that then or now.


Saudi Arabia is a terror state, yet no sanctions against them.

You've been brainwashed into believing Iran is any worse than the dozens of other scumbag nations we deal with because Israel and Saudi Arabia are enemies of them.

Iran is more modern and advanced than Saudi Arabia. There is a better chance that Iran becomes a functioning democracy before Saudi Arabia comes close. Iran is enemies the United States because we mad a bad play against them back in the days of the Shah. They are the sole Shia power in that reason working against the main Sunni power Saudi Arabia. We backed the Sunni power play trying to turn the Shia nations like Iraq and Iran into Sunni power bases. Now the Saudi Arabians and Israel and their associated allies vilify Iran because Iran seeks to maintain their Shia power base.

I'm tired of involving America in a religious war between Muslims. Just because Egypt and Saudi Arabia made a deal to cease hostilities against Israel doesn't make them any less the snakes they are, yet we sell both of those nations weapons and don't sanction them at all. We should do business with Iran, so the Shia and Sunni can fight amongst themselves and leave us the hell alone.

Typical neocon, burrton. Buying into the neocon ideas that have been sold to us for decades. I want to explain to me how Iran is worse than Saudi Arabia or Egypt or the like to America? Tell me how many Iranians were part of 9/11. Who leads Al Qaeda and ISIS and the like? Iran is enemies with Israel and Saudi Arabia and that is why they are our enemy. Not because they threaten us in any way. The fact is we backed a bad horse in the Shah in the Sunni-Shia power struggle. Iran will not trust us until we stop working against them on behalf of Saudi Arabia, even though Iran would make a far better ally than Saudi Arabia has ever been.

I'm glad we're working on relations with Iran. Iran is a nation that will eventually come around to democracy and normal operations if we allow them to. They treat their women better than Saudi Arabia. They are more free. They are more likely to take Islam into the modern age than our current allies in the Middle East (other than Israel) with kings and military juntas as their leaders. Iran's Ayatollahs may influence who can become a candidate in Iran, but they at least let the vote of the people decide.

Iran would make a better ally than Saudi Arabia. I think we should back them over the scumbags that smile in our face while they teach the worst form of Islam in the Middle East. They treat their women like slaves. They think they are the first Caliphate of Islam privately funding terrorism all over the world. They are the source of radical Islam, not Iran. Yet here you are with your uneducated neocon opinion keeping us from moving forward in that region of the world.

We should say with the Iran deal. Iran is a better model of Middle Eastern democracy than the other scumbag theocratic monarchies with the ridiculous oil sheikhs.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:15 pm

monkey wrote:Oh my... You really are duped.
I haven't the time nor the inclination to educate you/deprogram you, but the level of misinformation you've been fed and are now regurgitating is spooky.
The worst part is all the partial truths, and out of context facts.
I'll just say this, Obama made a deal that insures that Iran gets nuclear weapons, virtually guaranteeing that our children will have to go to war with that lunatic country, and you're defending it...

Inspections? Please don't make me laugh. Go do some actual research, try looking somewhere other than DNC sponsored websites or CNN. You spout talking points really well but you know nothing about the truth.


You don't know crap about Iran to say this. You obviously aren't following where the real lunatics reside in Saudi Arabia and its associates.

Wake up to the reality. 15 of 19 Saudi Arabians on 9/11. Osama Bin Laden is Saudi Arabian. Read up on the House of Saud and the Wahhabism that is their national religion. Read on how they fund terrorism and radicalism in Somalia and other Gulf nations. They tried to take power and radicalize Egypt throwing their funding behind the Muslim Brotherhood. Iran isn't fueling terrorism, Saudi Arabia and folks like you are asleep at the wheel reading articles and other rubbish that bad mouth Iran without reading up on the nations or talking to people that come from those nations.

Iran is not even close to teaching radical Islam of the kind practice by ISIS or Al Qaeda, that is all Saudi Arabia and the other teachers of Wahhabism.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Largent80 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:16 pm

Rambo2014 wrote:Seahawk fan trump haters probably could not get laid by a 80 yo grandpa


Im a 64 year old grandpa and I'll plow your back 40 just like the NFL does every year.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Largent80 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:18 pm

Monkey is Macack. And Macack is itchy/scratchy
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:20 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Shes not having sex with the dude. She wont even hold his hand. He disgusts her based on the body language. But they truly deserve one another, two users of others.

The whole family including his used car salesmen sons makes me ill. Americas P*ssy will never recover from this molestation.


This BS the press likes to hop on. You don't know a damn thing about what happens between Trump and his wife and neither does the media.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby monkey » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:46 pm

Asea, I never said anything about Saudi Arabia.
That I am bashing Iran for being a theocratic, state sponsor of terror, has nothing to do with Saudi Arabia.
Further, they had nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
If you want me to rip apart Saudi Arabia, I would be glad to, (and don't get me started on Qatar), but that had nothing to do with the topic.
It's pretty silly to go after me for not mentioning them when they had nothing to do with the conversation don't you think?

Edit: I just went back and read your post to Burrton, I could argue that you are wrong on multiple points you made, but I honestly don't give a crap enough to.
I will however, say that if you honestly believe that a democracy could rise up our of that theocratic dictatorship you ought to win an award for most optimistic person ever.
There's a reason that democracy doesn't spontaneously arise out of Islamic Nations... I'll let you figure out what that is. (Hint, it's the one thing they all have in common).

Aww heck, I'll just say it since I'm not sure you'll figure it out.
This nation, the United States, is what it is, with it's freedoms and it's constitution, precisely because of it's roots in Judeo Christian values.

Islam and Sharia law are inseparable, and Sharia law is antithetical to freedom.
Islamic principles of submission and obedience and disparity of the genders (Muhammed taught that there are many more women in Hell than men, because they are lesser than men.), etc..., can never lead to freedom.
Those Islamic principles would have to be left behind or otherwise, somehow overcome first for a democracy to arise. That inherently means leaving behind Islam, and that's simply not going to happen.

So thinking that Iran is nearing some kind of democracy is not only ignoring where they are at right now, (a theocratic dictatorship nowhere near democracy) it is also assuming something for which there has never been evidence, and that I would argue, cannot happen
Last edited by monkey on Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby monkey » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:51 pm

Largent80 wrote:Monkey is Macack. And Macack is itchy/scratchy

Yes, when leftists​ run out of arguments, (which doesn't take long, because their arguments are anchored in illusion and thin air, they resort to ad hominem attacks.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:37 am

It's the best we have today for the reason I alluded to- it's ridiculous historical revisionism to say it's the best we could do in 2015. There's nobody but Obama and his disinformation team that believed that then or now.


There's no question Iran is a bad actor in the Middle East, but deals can be made.

To think that a better deal was possible is dreaming if you believe former and current diplomats, legal experts in international dealings, and a number of military scholars.
A better deal would have been great, but Iran (according to the above) probably wouldn't have given up any more.
I think it's equal revisionist history to believe a far better deal was there. Many of those who were and are opposed did so before it was signed and the text known and for some it has
become a political rallying point.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby burrrton » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:40 am

Asea, I never said anything about Saudi Arabia.


SA are dirtbags, but not close to the same level as Iran, but some need to equate the two so they can rationalize giving Iran nukes.

And now SA will want a nuke, too, but that won't be Obama's fault, either. Mark it down.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby RiverDog » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:51 am

NorthHawk wrote:There's no question Iran is a bad actor in the Middle East, but deals can be made.


Like the deal we made with that bad actor in the Pacific, North Korea?
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby burrrton » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:00 am

There's no question Iran is a bad actor in the Middle East, but deals can be made.


Yes, when "give us everything we want and we'll make a meaningless gesture or two and ignore the rest" is a "deal", they're more than willing to deal with you.

Even if you take their word for it, they've done little more than put a couple advanced centrifuges on mothballs for a few years (they weren't required to "dismantle" their program), a step the Obama admin themselves admitted could be reversed in a matter of months. They're predictably ignoring the rest of the "deal" (testing delivery systems, etc).

The Non-Proliferation Treaty existed for a reason, and it's silly to suggest anyone thought it was pointless, which is what you do when you characterize a terror state getting a nuke as an inevitability.

The best we can do now is cross our fingers and hope Iran quits acting like Iran- we gave away literally every bit of leverage we had.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby burrrton » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:03 am

RiverDog wrote:Like the deal we made with that bad actor in the Pacific, North Korea?


Yup- we even had examples to learn from but ignored them.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:30 am

Interestingly there is no deal with North Korea and they have nukes.
We have a deal with Iran and they do not.
I'd rather have just NK than both with nukes.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby burrrton » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:25 pm

NorthHawk wrote:I'd rather have just NK than both with nukes.


Hang tight- it's now inevitable that you're going to get both.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby monkey » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:39 pm

NorthHawk wrote:Interestingly there is no deal with North Korea and they have nukes.
We have a deal with Iran and they do not.
I'd rather have just NK than both with nukes.


You can personally thank Carter and Clinton for North Korea having nukes.
Have you really forgotten, or just never learned how Bill sent Jimmy the ex president over there to agree to replace their junk reactors with light water reactors, and give them a lot of money?
There were lots of shady back room deals made, all at the behest of Bill Clinton, which we got absolutely nothing for, except a nuclear armed North Korea.
As usual thank​ a lib when something really crooked and stupid happens.
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