Manning in a cheating scandal?

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Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby RiverDog » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:50 am

The way this is written, it's pretty clear that it comes straight out of the Patriots/Tom Brady fan base:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/for ... spartanntp

I don't think that the NFL has any interest whatsoever in opening up an investigation over an allegation that's over 20 years old and involving another first ballot HOF'er, but I thought it was worth an offseason discussion.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:46 am

Yah, just Pats fans lashing out at anyone who might listen to try to drag another team to their level. Misery loves company, I guess.
But it wouldn't surprise me if things like this go on from year to year for a lot of teams - maybe all of them in some way or another.

At first I thought you were bringing up the Eli Manning "game worn jersey" issue that might become something larger.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:56 pm

I'm certainly no Pats fan but if you'r going to make a big deal about deflating balls, illegal hearing aides gotta be on the radar.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby burrrton » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:28 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:I'm certainly no Pats fan but if you'r going to make a big deal about deflating balls, illegal hearing aides gotta be on the radar.


++
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby RiverDog » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:46 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:I'm certainly no Pats fan but if you'r going to make a big deal about deflating balls, illegal hearing aides gotta be on the radar.


Agreed, but not regarding an allegation regarding something nearly 20 years ago.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby mykc14 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:50 am

I agree that it would be just a big of a deal as deflating footballs, but the fact that it was illegal is pure speculation. The writer of the original piece just assumes they were electronic in some way, which would be illegal, but teams were special earplugs/hearing aids all the time now that are not electronic and not illegal. We hear about them in just about every one of our prime time home games.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby RiverDog » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:25 am

mykc14 wrote:I agree that it would be just a big of a deal as deflating footballs, but the fact that it was illegal is pure speculation. The writer of the original piece just assumes they were electronic in some way, which would be illegal, but teams were special earplugs/hearing aids all the time now that are not electronic and not illegal. We hear about them in just about every one of our prime time home games.


I know that teams wear ear plugs all the time to dampen sound, but do they wear hearing aids that without some form of power can dampen some sounds while amplifying others? Do such products exist?

It would seem to me that if you're going to boost the amplification of any sound that you need some sort of power source, ie batteries.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby mykc14 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:00 pm

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/imag ... MBvNbhjgsi


Boom!!

I think this is what the colts were using... seems legal to me.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:42 pm

Also there is no evidence Brady has ever used HGH. There's quite a bit of smoke to suggest Manning did. I don't blame him under the circumstances but I think he absolutely did.

Manning is the teflon man, from tea bagging a female trainer in college right on through the al jazeera scandal he gets a pass because he could throw a football and read the field as well as any man who ever played.
So it goes.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby RiverDog » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:31 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Also there is no evidence Brady has ever used HGH. There's quite a bit of smoke to suggest Manning did. I don't blame him under the circumstances but I think he absolutely did.

Manning is the teflon man, from tea bagging a female trainer in college right on through the al jazeera scandal he gets a pass because he could throw a football and read the field as well as any man who ever played.
So it goes.


There's no evidence that Manning did, either. You really need to give up this thing you have about Manning:

After a seven-month investigation, the NFL announced on Monday that it found “no credible evidence” Peyton Manning used human growth hormone (HGH) or other substances in violation of the league’s performance-enhancing drug policy.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/07/25/peyto ... al-jazeera

Either that or admit that you will believe anything you read as long as it conforms to your own personal opinion of someone.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby obiken » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:50 pm

Hillarious! However, as a SEAHAWK fan, Its a lovely pox on both houses!
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby Hawk Sista » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:52 am

I liked Peyton and I have argued for him w/ vigor. There is, however, a cloud over him. And if one believes he is as squeaky clean as he presents himself to be, then they would be as guilty as one who believes everything they read.

Rubbing his nuts on someone's face is at least a window into him being a flawed person (@ the very least) rather than the great American hero. There are many who believe that the Manning family has used mafia-like tactics to get what they want... from paying off people to black-ball the woman who endured Peyton's blue balls in her face, to getting Eli to the Giants (& away from the Bolts), to making negative stories 'bout the boys go away (HGH and all). Who knows what the truth is, but I don't see a logical pathway to the Mannings (all of them) being the polite, white hat wearing gents that make up their public personna.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby Hawktawk » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:51 pm

[
There's no evidence that Manning did, either. You really need to give up this thing you have about Manning:

After a seven-month investigation, the NFL announced on Monday that it found “no credible evidence” Peyton Manning used human growth hormone (HGH) or other substances in violation of the league’s performance-enhancing drug policy.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/07/25/peyto ... al-jazeera

Either that or admit that you will believe anything you read as long as it conforms to your own personal opinion of someone.[/quote]

Oh ok RD the NFL *investigated* a first ballot HOF guy who had just won a super bowl and announced his retirement. I'm sure they dug real deep roflmao.

The biggest story of the Al Jazeera report was that the NFL test as well as the baseball test is so easy to beat the guy has to literally have the syringe stuck in his butt, less than an hour after taking HGH it's impossible to detect by NFL methods. Nobody has EVER tested positive in 3 years!!!!

I watched the report twice in its entirety found it utterly believable. I watched several steroid peddlers sell to pro athletes on camera. Charlie Sly wasn't inventive enough to make up these stories out of thin air.


And reading comprehension buddy I said there is "smoke". How come the defamed manning didn't sue?

Same reason Rump hasn't sued his accusers. A little thing called discovery. That's why.
Guilty as hell. Still great and a first ballot HOF guy but he did it imo.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby FolkCrusader » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:49 am

I don't know exactly what they would have used but there were certainly devices intended to enhance certain sounds (such as a voice) while muffling very loud sounds (such as gunshots). Law enforcement used them and probably still do. Hunters used them. Assuming the frequencies affected could be tweaked they would have worked very well for that situation.

The real question is why aren't teams continuing to try and use them today. Perhaps the NFL became aware of them and made specific rules about them with fines defined?
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby RiverDog » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:52 pm

FolkCrusader wrote:I don't know exactly what they would have used but there were certainly devices intended to enhance certain sounds (such as a voice) while muffling very loud sounds (such as gunshots). Law enforcement used them and probably still do. Hunters used them. Assuming the frequencies affected could be tweaked they would have worked very well for that situation.

The real question is why aren't teams continuing to try and use them today. Perhaps the NFL became aware of them and made specific rules about them with fines defined?


But such devices would have had to have been battery operated, correct? I don't know of any plain ole ear plugs that can do what you have described above.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby FolkCrusader » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:08 pm

RiverDog wrote:
But such devices would have had to have been battery operated, correct? I don't know of any plain ole ear plugs that can do what you have described above.


Yes, correct.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby RiverDog » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:58 am

FolkCrusader wrote:"But such devices would have had to have been battery operated, correct? I don't know of any plain ole ear plugs that can do what you have described above."

Yes, correct.


Thanks, FC. Earlier in the thread, Mykc had indicated that there were ear plugs being used that were legal that could do what you are describing but that were not electronic. If they were electronic, then they would have been illegal under NFL rules.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby obiken » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:03 am

Old news, he's retired, who cares??
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby RiverDog » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:42 am

obiken wrote:Old news, he's retired, who cares??


Answer: Patriot fans seeking to trivialize the Deflategate scandal and promote Brady over Manning.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby burrrton » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:36 am

Is there actually a debate about who's the GOAT now??
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:26 am

burrrton wrote:Is there actually a debate about who's the GOAT now??


He's also very lucky to have landed in the perfect position to exploit his abilities.
If the circumstances were he was drafted a year after P. Manning and by the Colts, would he have ever been able to show enough to be traded to a team that needed a QB? How about if he landed in a city like Cleveland of late?

He is the right QB at the right time for NE and has probably enjoyed the most success of any QB, but he's darn lucky to also be in the situation where the coaches saw what they had.
I occasionally wonder about how many other players were never discovered because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby Hawk Sista » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:11 am

That's always the rub with the GOAT discussion. What if Peyton were a Patriot and Brady a Colt. Brady's early SB wins were heavy on the D; which is the criticism of RW. When Brady was out, they went right on winning. When Peyton was out, they had a 2-win season. I'm not saying Manning is the GOAT, but there is a lot of circumstantial assistance (the rest of the team, the system, the coaching, etc..to any GOAT talk. Rice, for example, has the best #s of all time. Who here would take Rice first as their WR? I wouldn't. (Maybe I'm jaded - not only was he a Niner, but he was personally very rude to me and I hated him wearing #80 in Seattle.)

Yeah, Brady is the GOAT, clearly. But I think it is fair to put an asterisk next to his name, IMHO.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby burrrton » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:49 am

If the circumstances were he was drafted a year after P. Manning and by the Colts, would he have ever been able to show enough to be traded to a team that needed a QB? How about if he landed in a city like Cleveland of late?


Valid questions, maybe, but they fall under the umbrella of "If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle".

He's been too consistent, too successful, over too long a period of time, with too many moving pieces, for there to be any discussion about who the Greatest of All Time is, at least IMO.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:05 am

Like Sis said, that's the difficulty in declaring the Greatest of All Time, and it's the problem with comparing different eras as well.
Having said that, he has won more than anyone else so he has to be considered in that handful of the few in consideration for the GOAT.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby RiverDog » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:25 pm

NorthHawk wrote:He's also very lucky to have landed in the perfect position to exploit his abilities.
If the circumstances were he was drafted a year after P. Manning and by the Colts, would he have ever been able to show enough to be traded to a team that needed a QB? How about if he landed in a city like Cleveland of late?

He is the right QB at the right time for NE and has probably enjoyed the most success of any QB, but he's darn lucky to also be in the situation where the coaches saw what they had.
I occasionally wonder about how many other players were never discovered because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.


That definitely falls under the category of "if your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle."

I'd rather not frame the Brady vs. Manning debate as "GOAT" as the game has changed too much to enable an honest comparison, ie apples vs. oranges, but I generally come down slightly on the side of Manning on this debate, mainly due to some of the reasons that North Hawk has mentioned. Manning has reached the SB with 4 different head coaches. Any bets on how long that record will stand?
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:56 pm

The point I was trying to make is there is also some good fortune in his career. If Bledsoe wasn't injured, would Brady have got the chance?
Maybe not for another year or more, and nobody knows how that might have turned out. He really took advantage of his opportunity.
Some other players like Barry Sanders excelled even without much help around him (a fairly consistent OL, but not much else on those teams) and he is near the top for RB's in my opinion.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby RiverDog » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:48 pm

NorthHawk wrote:The point I was trying to make is there is also some good fortune in his career. If Bledsoe wasn't injured, would Brady have got the chance?
Maybe not for another year or more, and nobody knows how that might have turned out. He really took advantage of his opportunity.
Some other players like Barry Sanders excelled even without much help around him (a fairly consistent OL, but not much else on those teams) and he is near the top for RB's in my opinion.


Brady definitely had the odds stacked against him coming out of college vs. Manning, and you're right, there was a lot more of a random element at work in Brady's pro career than Mannings. What I was replying to was your statement about wondering how many players that could have been great but never got the opportunity. That's where all the "if's" and "but's" come into play, and it extends to more situations than simply never getting a chance...if not for an injury here, for poor coaching there, etc.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby Hawk Sista » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:26 am

I know this makes me a homer, but I think getting drafted to the expansion Texans w/ that HORRIBLE o-line ruined the elder Carr, David.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby RiverDog » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:32 am

Hawk Sista wrote:I know this makes me a homer, but I think getting drafted to the expansion Texans w/ that HORRIBLE o-line ruined the elder Carr, David.


I know you're a big Fresno State fan, but it's no homerism to note the fact that David Carr was pounded unmercifully and arguably was psychologically destroyed in his years with the Texans and the beatings he took was most likely a major factor in his failure to launch. It does fit under the "if your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle" category, but nevertheless, it's a fair observation.

Carr's demise with the Texans is what worries me about the spot we've put Russell Wilson in these past few years.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:02 am

Carr's demise with the Texans is what worries me about the spot we've put Russell Wilson in these past few years.


I thought we saw a bit of that the last 2 years, but he's pretty tough mentally. It has to wear on everyone, though so it can be expected to happen to some degree.
That he has had good success and won a SB, means it is probably easier to press forward in his career than Carr who it seems saw nothing to encourage him.
As well, the plays early in Russell's career were designed to limit the punishment he took (big run game, lots of safe throws, and planned QB runs/rollouts).
Carr was pretty much in the pocket on predictable pass plays with a bad pass blocking OL.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby EmeraldBullet » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:25 am

mykc14 wrote:I agree that it would be just a big of a deal as deflating footballs, but the fact that it was illegal is pure speculation. The writer of the original piece just assumes they were electronic in some way, which would be illegal, but teams were special earplugs/hearing aids all the time now that are not electronic and not illegal. We hear about them in just about every one of our prime time home games.


I know of a specific brand that makes 'ear plugs', in southern Oregon. They aren't electronic, but they are fitted to your ear and are specifically designed to block out noises at certain frequencies and allow other frequencies to be heard with clarity. I am into hunting and that's how I know about these, but same principal would work for athletes. I never had owned a pair as they cost a ton of money (when I looked into what I wanted it was like $3500 a pair.) They aren't electronic at all and would be legal in nfl, I am sure many players use these.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby mykc14 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:01 am

EmeraldBullet wrote:
I know of a specific brand that makes 'ear plugs', in southern Oregon. They aren't electronic, but they are fitted to your ear and are specifically designed to block out noises at certain frequencies and allow other frequencies to be heard with clarity. I am into hunting and that's how I know about these, but same principal would work for athletes. I never had owned a pair as they cost a ton of money (when I looked into what I wanted it was like $3500 a pair.) They aren't electronic at all and would be legal in nfl, I am sure many players use these.



That is pretty interesting. The amount of money and technology used to gain even a small advantage in the NFL is pretty amazing. It sounds like those certainly could be what they were using and they would be legal in the NFL.
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby Hawktawk » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:45 am

Brady the GOAT? yeah I suppose as much as I detest he and Billacheat. You got to give the man his due.

But hes been very lucky. All HOF type guys are at one time or another. I remember Montana on the famous "there's John Candy" last minute drive vs Cincy in the 88 SB bouncing the ball right off a safeties chest in the endzone before throwing the touchdown pass to win it.

But the luckiest thing that happened to Brady was to be drafted by the pats and play for the undisputed GOAT head coach, dastardly as he has been. The Pats always surrounded Brady with talent, and usually provided him with excellent protection both by personnel and especially max protect schemes. In the times where Brady has faced extreme pressure hes been worse than average as evidence by the 2 losses to Eli Manning where his high flying offenses were grounded by an effective 4 man rush.

In last years Superbowl when the rush was getting home he was dreadful. When the Atlanta defense ran out of gas he came back, but only due to Shanahan and yes Dan Quinn having the most monumental 30 minute brain cramp in NFL history.

I haven't done the math but I would bet had they simply run the ball almost very down from the 8 minute mark of the 3rd quarter with a 25 point lead they could not have been caught as NE only tied it within the final minute.That was with a Ryan sack fumble on a 10 yard drop back on 3rd and 1 and another sack taking them out of FG range.

Even then Brady threw a straight up game ending pick that the defender couldn't squeeze leading to Edelman's circus catch millimeters off the turf.

We know what happened against Seattle. Had Lane not been cheap shotted by Edelman and Avril concussed by a clear head butt Seattle probably cruises. Add to that all the walking wounded including Sherman, Kam Bam, and ET. And still if it weren't for the 2nd biggest brain fart in my lifetime.....Its tough to think about.

Hell yes Brady is the luckiest man ever to play the game...
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby Hawk Sista » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:58 am

Good points. We pretty much all agree the Bill & Tom are the GOATs of their respective positions. And deservedly so. I hate it that the SB victory "Tom got" to ice his legacy came after injuries to our guys and the play that shall not be named. What an effin gift.... damn, I hate that! And the great disappearance of the entire Falcon Team/coaches (save Ju-Jo) in the 4th, otherwise they'd have lost their last 4 SB appearances.

But like my man Charles Barkley says, "if, if, if! Whatchoo mean if? If I didn't eat so much, I wouldn't be so fat, but I do & I am."
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby Hawktawk » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:07 am

Hawk Sista wrote:Good points. We pretty much all agree the Bill & Tom are the GOATs of their respective positions. And deservedly so. I hate it that the SB victory "Tom got" to ice his legacy came after injuries to our guys and the play that shall not be named. What an effin gift.... damn, I hate that! And the great disappearance of the entire Falcon Team/coaches (save Ju-Jo) in the 4th, otherwise they'd have lost their last 4 SB appearances.

But like my man Charles Barkley says, "if, if, if! Whatchoo mean if? If I didn't eat so much, I wouldn't be so fat, but I do & I am."


If ifs and butts were candy and nuts we would all have a merry Christmas. Or a bit harsher take would be wish in one hand and sh*t in the other and see which one fills up faster.

God causes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust. It seems so unfair sometimes.
There has never been a less deserving dynasty than the Pats IMO but it is what it is...
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Re: Manning in a cheating scandal?

Postby obiken » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:14 am

If ifs and butts were candy and nuts we would all have a merry Christmas. Or a bit harsher take would be wish in one hand and sh*t in the other and see which one fills up faster.
God causes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust. It seems so unfair sometimes.
There has never been a less deserving dynasty than the Pats IMO but it is what it is...



The Pats are dynasty because of the Cap, Brady, and Billi, they would not be in the Pre-cap era. IMHO.
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