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Largent80 wrote:Nobody points at the players. It's always the coaches fault.

Tell me something, why are the players held accountable, but not the coach? We've given Cable a lot of years to build an effective O-line. He's been given a lot draft picks, practically every year, to work with. Players are held accountable. We've had a lot of O-line players that didn't get re-signed, didn't get starting jobs, and were cut from the team for failing to perform. But somehow it's never Cable's fault these players don't perform. During draft season is sitting center table talking about "This guy is great" or "I had a talk with this guy" or "I had a hand in choosing this guy", then the guy fails and once again a certain segment of the fan base is, "It's not Cable's fault. He didn't get good groceries" or your rubbish, "It's the player's fault."

It is on the coach to help the scouts choose players that will do well at the pro level, then develop them into great players. At what point do you finally say, "This coach is not performing at the level I need him to perform at. It's time for a change." When does the coach have to perform? When is it his fault? Do we have to choose O-line with the 1st round for 3 to 5 years straight to say we've given Cable a real chance? Even though no one else is doing this.

Cable's had his chance. He's been hear for five years now. He's had many drafts and many picks to develop an O-line. He's not been able to do it unless Russell also runs for 500 plus yards. Coach performance should also be watched by Pete. If they don't perform, "Always compete" should apply to them.

Oh, I blame Carroll and Schneider for their part in this (OL) mess, trust me, lol.

They've allowed Cable to have input into "getting his guy". LOl, how many times have we heard that from Tom. I know it's a universal cliché, but it really does apply here. His recommendations amount to being crap, so he has to take a bite out of his own sandwich.

Pete and John aren't going to fire themselves.
But they did give Cable enough influence into this jalopy for it to reflect his deficiency in spotting and acquiring legit talent.
The Pocic kid could be something. But for every one of him there's wasted picks too high in the draft not to be felt.

It isn't working.

Really? They knew the great experiment had failed last year. Who do you blame?? There is no doubt Pete can pick DB's, but OLineman? Sorry, not even close. Its all fun and games till RW ends up at Virginia Mason with torn ACL, then all the Cheerleading will stop.

Part of me wants to point to Cable but the GM/HC have big hands in it, too.

I keep repeating this, but how can you expect players to play at high levels immediately when learning 2 positions within what's said to be a complicated blocking scheme?
Factor in the statements by Cable and other coaches around the league that drafted players on the OL rarely have the basics of playing the positions and that is a recipe for problems.
Also consider players in Seattle rarely have had a chance to really learn a position before being moved the next year. That means the first couple of years they are effectively rookies
playing at their positions.
I'm glad that Cable has said this year that he wants less moving of parts of the OL. It's a good start to let the players settle in and really learn how to play one position and sink or swim
there instead of drowning while scrambling to learn 2 positions.

You don't get rid of the two guys that have won you a Super Bowl and got you to another. Pete and John can build a Super Bowl team. But at some point Pete has to start questioning the O-line scouting and coaching. It's not doing the job up to his expectations. I don't know why he hasn't used his "Always Compete" mantra to address it.

Might I remind you guys that since we are successful we draft way after good OL players are available. Cable may have some input BUT he doesn't make the picks.

Players play, and THEY are the ones that suck, or don't suck, NOT the coach. He can only do so much, after that, it's up to THEM to get it done.

It's easy to armchair coach and play.

Then all the more reason to have a simpler blocking scheme.
It broadens the pool of potential draft picks and makes the learning curve less steep.

Largent80 wrote:Might I remind you guys that since we are successful we draft way after good OL players are available. Cable may have some input BUT he doesn't make the picks.

Players play, and THEY are the ones that suck, or don't suck, NOT the coach. He can only do so much, after that, it's up to THEM to get it done.

It's easy to armchair coach and play.

Might I remind you that Cable has stated he has final say on O-line guys and does help scout them. And at some point the O-line coach has to be held accountable for failing to choose picks that work out and develop the talent we have. If you're a head coach holding the players to the always compete philosophy, you should hold the coaches to the same.

It makes you look fake if you're getting rid of players for poor performance, then giving coaches a pass for failure to perform the job they are paid to do for multiple years.

No one is asking for this after Cable's first year. Cable has been given multiple years to heavily influence O-line draft picks and develop said talent. It has not worked to the same level as the other units.

I believe the bad O-line play is starting to damage Russell's prime years. Cable's been given more than a chance to help choose the groceries and prepare the meal. Time to get another cook choosing the groceries and preparing the meals if he can't get it right.

Helped scout, unquestionably, final say? You'll have to show me the direct quote, I ain't buying that. Only one person gets "final say", and it ain't Cable.

c_hawkbob wrote:Helped scout, unquestionably, final say? You'll have to show me the direct quote, I ain't buying that. Only one person gets "final say", and it ain't Cable.

This. Cables job does not include going to every college game. We have a series of scouts that do that work. They give the info to JS and PC. They then go over the players with Cable to see who might be a fit for the system. THEIR system, you know?...the one all the coaches want to run. If you want to get rid of Cable then you want PC gone as well because it all starts right there.

Aseahawkfan....He has held onto Bevell, which should be proof to anyone that he has his way of doing things. If you don't like it there are 31 other teams you can root for/b**** about.

Eh - We need PC, though, not Tom.

Even supports of Tom and Darrell wouldn't cry if each of them were gone after this season.
We wouldn't miss a beat with a new duo in that regard next year.

I'm not a coach loyalist, but as a former player I can tell you that the players are responsible for executing a plan. Regardless of where they were or weren't drafted, they need to perform. It's easy to always point to a coach and even fire them. Most of the time when that happens there is little or no improvement.

They then go over the players with Cable to see who might be a fit for the system. THEIR system, you know?...the one all the coaches want to run. If you want to get rid of Cable then you want PC gone as well because it all starts right there.

I'm not convinced Pete is determining if we use a Drive Blocking, ZBS, or Hybrid system, rather I think he sets the tone of whether we are a pass happy Offense or a run first Offense.
The Defense, on the other hand I think he has his hands in all aspects as it's what he really likes and is "his baby" so to speak.

I'll take the easy way out and say it's a little of column A and a little of column B. Cable undoubtedly has some say in selecting prospects and even targeting prospects. I would imagine JS and PC will veto certain prospects if they see guys they want at skill positions that won't be available later. Cable also hasn't had high draft picks on the o line every year and he hasn't solely gone after late round DL to convert to OL. There were also two years that they made zero picks on actual college OL. I can't place it all on him for both draft picks and player development, but he takes some of that responsibility. I also don't think JS and PC are going to keep a guy on the coaching staff who isn't working his tail off doing his job.

I agree with the take that the players also have to perform. Britt, Ifedi, Ohdiambo, and Glowinski were all OL in college. They've been playing this game at those position for a while, so there is some responsibility on them to take the next step or not. The whole "lead a horse to water" bit comes to mind here. Cable has the knowledge, but the players do have to execute. The o-line struggle is a struggle many of the leagues teams are dealing with, and not all the teams with great o-lines have been going anywhere come playoff time while the Seahawks have been in it almost every year of Carroll's tenure. Doesn't mean I'm satisfied with the line, though, but I think last year was a wake up call to get competent first and second string linemen to protect their franchise quarterback.

There does seem to be more of an emphasis on the OL this year and I agree last year was a wake-up call. JS pretty much said as much in the off season around draft time.
But within a championship window it's really disappointing to have seen a single area of the team decline. Many of us here saw it for a couple of years, but the FO
apparently thought they could get by with smoke and mirrors. The result was Sowell, Webb, and others while letting go a starter in Evans.
Evans contract wasn't much so it can only be defined as a real dumb move especially while the rest of the group was so young and needing leadership from within.
I think it's why they paid a lot for Joeckel and also signed Aboushi. Veterans are needed to show the youngster how to be a pro and settle them down if things go wrong.

Largent80 wrote:I'm not a coach loyalist, but as a former player I can tell you that the players are responsible for executing a plan. Regardless of where they were or weren't drafted, they need to perform. It's easy to always point to a coach and even fire them. Most of the time when that happens there is little or no improvement.

Since neither Cable or Bevell have raised the bar much, there's a pretty good chance we'd be able to find a better tandem.