NorthHawk wrote:I see what you are getting at, but I look at it a little differently.
I try to think who would give the worst teams of their era a chance to be a playoff team.
Would Montana have been able to take the Bucs to the playoffs those winless years? I doubt it, but he probably would have won them a few more games.
Same thing with Brady or Rodgers. How well would they have done with if they had played for the Browns the last 10 years and would we think the same of them?
I doubt it.
The conclusion I come to is the GOAT's are players who lucked into the perfect place for them to achieve their status.
Without head coaches who put them in the best possible position to exploit their talents, and surround them with a supporting cast including position coaches that amplify those talents,
they would in all probability never reach the levels they have.
We only have to look at our own Russell Wilson.
Here's a guy with immense talent who will never get the recognition in Seattle because of the philosophy of Defense first and conservative, ball control Offense.
That combination would hinder Rodgers and Brady, too but they have the advantage of HC's who are either Offensively minded or in Belichick's case OK with being creative
and using players to their advantage.
I don't look at it like that. There are plenty of great teams with great QBs that just can't finish at the right time. Russell Wilson is in that category now. He had a chance to elevate his team to a dynasty by winning back to back championships and he screwed up. There's not amount of talking or excuse making that will change the outcome. He made a bad decision and a bad throw on the most important play of his career and it cost his team a dynasty and him the kind of elite status you obtain from back to back championships. It's what separates the Russell Wilson's from the Montana's and the Brady's.
Bringing up Cleveland is not much of an analogy. Good teams get you to the point where you can win. If you want to be a GOAT QB, you have to make that good or great team win a Championship. You have to look at that 2 to 4 minutes with a 3 or 5 point margin for victory with the Super Bowl win on the line, then get those points. That's how you become the GOAT QB. If you can't do that, you're not the GOAT. You may be elite or great, but not the GOAT. GOAT is about those championships. GOATs for whatever reason can close games. It's in every sport.
Terry Bradshaw has four championships and he's not even close to GOAT discussion. We know who closed those games: The Steel Curtain. That's why they are the GOAT defense or one of the GOATs. When it came down to it, Montana and Brady both showed that they could look the 2 or 3 minutes on the clock in the eye playing against the second best team in the NFL and drive that ball down the field and put it in. Brady did it against our top tier defense. Montana did it against top tier teams as well. To have a chance to be a GOAT, you have to be part of a great team. Then you have to be the man when your team needs that win on their championship run and not screw it up or fail.
Russell failed in his biggest game. Now he's failed multiple times in tight games. He's still a great, playoff caliber QB. He's not even close to a GOAT save in Seattle Franchise History. He's our best ever.