Wilson out of the pocket makes offense better

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Wilson out of the pocket makes offense better

Postby trents » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:48 pm

First, let me say I'm not one of those who believe RW is not a good pocket passer. He's a very good pocket passer when he's given time to throw and his receivers are getting open.

But with the current state of our O line it is obvious to me that the only times the Seahawks have been able to move the ball this year is when Wilson rolls out of the pocket and is given the option of running the ball himself or hitting an open receiver. This prevents the opposition's defense from locking down on the receivers and makes the linebackers leave their lanes as they flow in the direction Wilson is running, either left or right. Seattle seems to have gotten away from the zone read last year when Wilson was banged up but it was very effective in Wilson's first two years. I think the coaching staff has backed away from it to lessen the possibility of Wilson getting hurt. But if you take that away from him you take away what he does best and your offense becomes too predictable. Leave all the "options" on the table.

Our O line is not the physical kind that can consistently drive defenders back from the line of scrimmage to make gaps for the backs. So let them create gaps by lateral movement as Wilson rolls out.
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Re: Wilson out of the pocket makes offense better

Postby Anthony » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:59 pm

trents wrote:First, let me say I'm not one of those who believe RW is not a good pocket passer. He's a very good pocket passer when he's given time to throw and his receivers are getting open.

But with the current state of our O line it is obvious to me that the only times the Seahawks have been able to move the ball this year is when Wilson rolls out of the pocket and is given the option of running the ball himself or hitting an open receiver. This prevents the opposition's defense from locking down on the receivers and makes the linebackers leave their lanes as they flow in the direction Wilson is running, either left or right. Seattle seems to have gotten away from the zone read last year when Wilson was banged up but it was very effective in Wilson's first two years. I think the coaching staff has backed away from it to lessen the possibility of Wilson getting hurt. But if you take that away from him you take away what he does best and your offense becomes too predictable. Leave all the "options" on the table.

Our O line is not the physical kind that can consistently drive defenders back from the line of scrimmage to make gaps for the backs. So let them create gaps by lateral movement as Wilson rolls out.


The issue is they have the answer for the offense but refuse to use but once in a while. It's called the up-tempo, its how we scored the td today. However, for whatever reason, they do not want to use it except one in a while. IN fact, it is how we went on a tear in 2015 but again they refuse to use it for some reason. THat said if not for 5+ drops we win by 2+ scores and Rw has a qb rating well over 100, with 3 tds, and over 70% complt. Rw also did miss a couple of throws, unlike other to me it is not a big deal as every QB in the league including Bady and Rodgers miss a couple every game. That said the drops hurt as did the penalties.
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Re: Wilson out of the pocket makes offense better

Postby trents » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:03 pm

I agree with that. And I think it fits hand in glove with what I said. You can't do it all the time because the offensive line will get gassed but they should do it more.
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Re: Wilson out of the pocket makes offense better

Postby Anthony » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:09 pm

trents wrote:I agree with that. And I think it fits hand in glove with what I said. You can't do it all the time because the offensive line will get gassed but they should do it more.



agreed you can mix it in, run 3 plays hurry-up and then slow it down for 2 then hurry up for 2 then slow it down keep the defense wondering, which will keep them off balance which helps our oline which is the biggest problem with our offense. Heck you can even add in some no huddle if you want.
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Re: Wilson out of the pocket makes offense better

Postby trents » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:15 pm

Two years ago the management focused on skill players in the draft and ignored the O Line. I think they thought it wasn't all that important with a mobile quarterback if he had top receivers that could get open consistently. You could see the problems starting even then as Lynch's numbers went way down. Boy was that a mistake.
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Re: Wilson out of the pocket makes offense better

Postby RiverDog » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:25 am

trents wrote:First, let me say I'm not one of those who believe RW is not a good pocket passer. He's a very good pocket passer when he's given time to throw and his receivers are getting open.

But with the current state of our O line it is obvious to me that the only times the Seahawks have been able to move the ball this year is when Wilson rolls out of the pocket and is given the option of running the ball himself or hitting an open receiver. This prevents the opposition's defense from locking down on the receivers and makes the linebackers leave their lanes as they flow in the direction Wilson is running, either left or right. Seattle seems to have gotten away from the zone read last year when Wilson was banged up but it was very effective in Wilson's first two years. I think the coaching staff has backed away from it to lessen the possibility of Wilson getting hurt. But if you take that away from him you take away what he does best and your offense becomes too predictable. Leave all the "options" on the table.

Our O line is not the physical kind that can consistently drive defenders back from the line of scrimmage to make gaps for the backs. So let them create gaps by lateral movement as Wilson rolls out.


First off, welcome to the Shack!

Secondly, although I agree that we don't get Russell on the move near enough, there's a reason why teams don't roll their quarterbacks out more: It cuts down on the amount of territory a defense has to defend. That's why Pete has his best cornerback, Richard Sherman, playing on the offensive's right side of the ball, so if a right handed quarterback is going to roll out, he's going to be going up against the best. Roll out opposite your throwing arm cuts down the field even more as it's difficult to get squared up and throw a decent pass.

There's other ways to deal with the pressure besides rolling out a quarterback. Getting a good running game started, like we did late yesterday, will help in that regard, as will a quick passing game and more plays out of the gun. Hopefully we'll find the right buttons to push to give this offense a jump start. I don't think we can count on the OL performing a lot better than they have these first two weeks.
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Re: Wilson out of the pocket makes offense better

Postby idhawkman » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:42 am

RiverDog wrote:First off, welcome to the Shack!

Secondly, although I agree that we don't get Russell on the move near enough, there's a reason why teams don't roll their quarterbacks out more: It cuts down on the amount of territory a defense has to defend. That's why Pete has his best cornerback, Richard Sherman, playing on the offensive's right side of the ball, so if a right handed quarterback is going to roll out, he's going to be going up against the best. Roll out opposite your throwing arm cuts down the field even more as it's difficult to get squared up and throw a decent pass.

There's other ways to deal with the pressure besides rolling out a quarterback. Getting a good running game started, like we did late yesterday, will help in that regard, as will a quick passing game and more plays out of the gun. Hopefully we'll find the right buttons to push to give this offense a jump start. I don't think we can count on the OL performing a lot better than they have these first two weeks.


Riv,

the running game wasn't working yesterday in the first 3 quarters of the game. The only reason it worked in the 4th quarter is because of the TOP we had - their defense was gassed. So to get to the root of why we had such good TOP we have to look at what worked for us in the beginning two quarters. It wasn't up tempo like some have suggested here. It was the quick passing game that Bevell finally relented to. Notice the first few drives where RW was getting rid of the ball so quick that it didn't matter who was playing Oline. Also, notice how he mixed his cadence and got a couple free plays/off sides calls. These are things that teams do to slow a pass rush. It's the things we have not done well in the past few years. Moving the pocket is another way to slow the pass rush and get more time for our WRs to get open. All of this was working early in the game. Somewhere in the middle of the second quarter, we reverted back to the pocket and longer routes though. That lasted pretty much through the third quarter, too.

We finally got back to the up-tempo and quick passes in the 4th qtr and voila a TD. Woohoo!

Makes one wonder why we don't go quick passes and up tempo earlier in the game and keep that for the entire game (or at least until we have a 2-3 score lead).
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Re: Wilson out of the pocket makes offense better

Postby Hawktawk » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:47 am

RiverDog wrote:[

First off, welcome to the Shack!

Secondly, although I agree that we don't get Russell on the move near enough, there's a reason why teams don't roll their quarterbacks out more: It cuts down on the amount of territory a defense has to defend. That's why Pete has his best cornerback, Richard Sherman, playing on the offensive's right side of the ball, so if a right handed quarterback is going to roll out, he's going to be going up against the best. Roll out opposite your throwing arm cuts down the field even more as it's difficult to get squared up and throw a decent pass.

There's other ways to deal with the pressure besides rolling out a quarterback. Getting a good running game started, like we did late yesterday, will help in that regard, as will a quick passing game and more plays out of the gun. Hopefully we'll find the right buttons to push to give this offense a jump start. I don't think we can count on the OL performing a lot better than they have these first two weeks.


"Roll out opposite your throwing arm cuts down the field even more as it's difficult to get squared up and throw a decent pass."

Therein is part of the beauty of Wilson. Flawed as his game was yesterday the TD pass was exactly that throw as Russ escaped a collapsing pocket Houdini like to the left and threw a dime to P rich . He completed the exact same pass the week before also to P Rich but in the field of play. He makes that play more than anyone else I can think of which is why he is so dangerous breaking the pocket to either sideline.

Any heck yeah trents welcome aboard the shack.
I completely agree with everything RD said about removing pressure from your QB. You must run the ball to set up the pocket to pass. A team that has no credibility running cannot use play action or deep drops. You are forced to rely on quick hitters, shotgun etc. Why this team doesn't run screens is a mystery as well.

Ill add a caveat. Russ RUNNING is good for this offense. Its when he is most devastating and it sets up everything else he wants to do. Its how the offense has been most successful throughout his career. Be who you are...
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Re: Wilson out of the pocket makes offense better

Postby RiverDog » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:51 am

Hawktawk wrote:Ill add a caveat. Russ RUNNING is good for this offense. Its when he is most devastating and it sets up everything else he wants to do. Its how the offense has been most successful throughout his career. Be who you are...


Yea, it's been a long time since we saw Russell running like he did yesterday. Right from the very first play, he was running, and we got back to some of the read option stuff that was such a factor in his early success. That was one of the few positive take aways from yesterday's otherwise lackluster offensive performance.
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Re: Wilson out of the pocket makes offense better

Postby trents » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:54 am

"Be who you are." Best comment yet. Carroll keeps talking about getting the running game going to "get back to who we are." If he means lining up toe to toe with defensive lines and playing smash mouth ground Chuck football that has never been who we are in his tenure. Even when Lynch had those good couple of years, most of his yards came on cutback plays, not holes off tackle created by dominant offensive line play. That ain't who we are and wishing it were don't make it that way.

By the way, thanks for all the warm welcomes.
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Re: Wilson out of the pocket makes offense better

Postby Feez » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:03 am

I agree our best drive of the day was the same one where the camera panned to Wilson pointing to his ear and shaking his head like his headset wasn't working. they need to turn him loose more often if he is on the same level as Rodgers or Brady then they need to let him take over occasionally like both of them do from time to time. our hurry up offense has looked way better the last 2 maybe 3 seasons. the biggest plays come from when the called play breaks down and Wilson makes something out of nothing. I have tried to stay out of this camp but I think it is time for Bevell to go
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