Attendance, ratings down again

Official Seahawks Forum, for the 12th man, by the 12th man.

Attendance, ratings down again

Postby RiverDog » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:10 am

I remember our debate last season, how attendance and ratings were down across the board. It's down again this season, and naysayers can cite several anomalies, namely the hurricanes and baseball playoffs (last year, the excuse was the election, but that dog won't hunt in 2017). But the fact is that the overall ratings are down over 7% from the same 5 week period last year and 18% from the first 5 weeks of 2015.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/nf ... eftag9ttis

Here's some possible reasons: California. The Rams move has been less than successful, the Chargers have completely abandoned their fan base and can't even fill a 30,000 seat soccer stadium, the 49'ers move to Santa Clara has been an unqualified bust, and the Raiders are in the process of leaving Oakland behind for Sin City.

Major market teams: In addition to football doing poorly in LA, it's not going so hot in New York and Chicago, either, plus baseball is doing fantastic in those cities, as the Dodgers, Yankees, and Cubbies are all in the league championship series. For any sport can do well before a nation wide audience, they pretty much have to do well in the major markets.

Star power: I suppose you can say that future first ballot HOF'er Tom Brady is a star, but he's not nearly as popular as Peyton Manning was. I sure don't see him doing any Nationwide commercials. The NFL doesn't have a signature, a name/face that anyone in the country would be able to recognize and the type of personality that attracts casual or otherwise uninterested fans.

And last but not least, we have the anthem protests and the POTUS himself calling for fans to boycott NFL games.

So what's your take? Why the decline? Or is this all just a bunch of fake news, that the NFL in reality is as popular as ever.
User avatar
RiverDog
Legacy
 
Posts: 23995
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:52 am
Location: Kennewick, WA, 99338

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby idhawkman » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:05 am

Pretty much all the above plus the relentless flags that are thrown almost every play. It has become more and more obvious that the refs and maybe even the league is trying to pick and choose winners and losers. I'm not going to write a long post about why I believe this but there's lots of ways they do this including scheduling, ref teams for certain games, flags, and more.

Another issue is parents not wanting their kids to play football. I don't see near as many kids wearing team logo'd stuff and if the kids aren't watching it then the parents may not be watching it. You could also add video games into this issue with kids not watching...

Continuously messing with the rules. e.g. what is a catch, hitting a QB above the shoulder or below the waist, targeting, flagrant fouls, longer extra points, etc. Its almost not the same game I grew up with.

I feel the most flagrant issue is the Anthem protests. That's hurting their ratings the most.

Regarding the teams in big markets, ask yourself how the college teams are doing in those markets. Are they up, down or the same? sarcasm - I'm sure that baseball teams in those cities have never done well in those markets before so it has to be that, right? /sarcasm

The NFL is in a big pickle at this point and unless they stop dissing their fans, they will continue to lose viewers.
User avatar
idhawkman
Legacy
 
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:00 am

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby RiverDog » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:12 am

idhawkman wrote:Pretty much all the above plus the relentless flags that are thrown almost every play. It has become more and more obvious that the refs and maybe even the league is trying to pick and choose winners and losers. I'm not going to write a long post about why I believe this but there's lots of ways they do this including scheduling, ref teams for certain games, flags, and more.

Another issue is parents not wanting their kids to play football. I don't see near as many kids wearing team logo'd stuff and if the kids aren't watching it then the parents may not be watching it. You could also add video games into this issue with kids not watching...

Continuously messing with the rules. e.g. what is a catch, hitting a QB above the shoulder or below the waist, targeting, flagrant fouls, longer extra points, etc. Its almost not the same game I grew up with.

I feel the most flagrant issue is the Anthem protests. That's hurting their ratings the most.

Regarding the teams in big markets, ask yourself how the college teams are doing in those markets. Are they up, down or the same? sarcasm - I'm sure that baseball teams in those cities have never done well in those markets before so it has to be that, right? /sarcasm

The NFL is in a big pickle at this point and unless they stop dissing their fans, they will continue to lose viewers.


Both USC and UCLA are doing well attendance-wise, and that could be part of the Rams and Chargers problems. Not sure of other markets. I'd imagine that the 49'ers are having trouble competing with Stanford, who's had good teams and is right next door, but I haven't researched it.

There's little doubt that the anthem protests are hurting ratings, but they aren't the root cause. One of the things that's affecting ratings is the expansion of live online streaming. You still have viewers, but they don't count in the television ratings numbers.

I, too, sense a change in attitude in the next generation of fans. The millennials grew up playing soccer, not so much football, and aren't as likely to become fans as us baby boomers who watched football with our dads, and they are very aware of the safety risks of playing football. I have no doubt that they are channeling their kids away from the sport.
User avatar
RiverDog
Legacy
 
Posts: 23995
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:52 am
Location: Kennewick, WA, 99338

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby curmudgeon » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:49 am

Over-saturation, Wussification, Politicization=Nearly Finished League.......
User avatar
curmudgeon
Legacy
 
Posts: 805
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:15 pm
Location: Kennewick, Washington 99337

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby burrrton » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:34 pm

curmudgeon wrote:Over-saturation, Wussification, Politicization=Nearly Finished League.......


And I think in that order, too (with some allowance for the CTE effect in there).
User avatar
burrrton
Legacy
 
Posts: 4213
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:20 am

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby Largent80 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:11 pm

Nobody said GREED yet and that's a biggie for me. Just take a look at marketing, all types actually but say for a fan of a certain team that in order to watch every game at their home they must give DirecTV enormous amounts of money for a 2 year period just so they can get Sunday Ticket.

I fall squarely into that category, however the plug is about to be pulled in the middle of football season because my bundled internet and tv package is $270 a month !!!!!!!!!!!!! and that's without any HBO etc.

That is just one aspect. Penalties are killing the game. Can't do this or that. Arbitrary calls and even non calls. Flags flying like its the 4th of July. It's B O R I N G.
User avatar
Largent80
Legacy
 
Posts: 1745
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:38 pm
Location: Tex-ass

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby Hawk Sista » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:01 pm

The anthem protests would be my guess at the #1 reason this season. It’s clearly been the better part of the last two years & the trends are continuing, so it’s not just that.

In addition to the feeling that other things just matter more than football, & there has been a lot to care about here lately, there are plenty of ideas all listed above. There’s the CTE issue. There is no brand/team loyalty with the younger generations. It’s about a certain hat, fantasy football, or a player rather than a team. Fair-weather fans have always been around - they are way easier to find these days. For me, it’s really the product on the field... it’s just not the same, particularly in the early part of the season. The lack of practice is really impacting the watch-ability of it. Far too few teams have decent o-lines. There doesn’t feel like a real flow to games. I haven’t watched much of it at all this year. Just the Hawks (& they are kinda making my points for me.)

One final add... the lack of real practice leads to more injuries, IMHO. Blah
User avatar
Hawk Sista
Legacy
 
Posts: 2429
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:58 am
Location: Central California

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby Zorn76 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:10 pm

The Politics are definitely affecting it, but the NFL was due for a ratings dip anyway.
They have enjoyed (i.e. raped and pillaged fans:) a 10% increase or so in profits, based on billions of dollars of revenue, for the last several years. It was bound to happen.

That said, fans (myself included), are Sick of politics invading the game. I'll always watch, but this has been one of the least enjoyable seasons I've experienced.

Fortunately, no matter how worthy the cause or discussions generated, the story goes away. It's too hard to sustain season after season anyway. They'll eventually determine they've made their point, lick the index finger, and chalk up the 'win'.
User avatar
Zorn76
Legacy
 
Posts: 1894
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:33 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby FolkCrusader » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:54 pm

The part you missed River that TV viewing is (and has been for quite a few years) going down in nearly every age group. The only group that is growing is 65+. The younger age groups, 12-17, 18-24, and 25-34 reduce TV viewing 10%-15% per year. Football still dominates TV ratings, it's just that TV gets less and less popular every year.

I have no doubt all of these things have an affect as well, but the main issue is a reduction in viewership overall.
FolkCrusader
Legacy
 
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:51 am

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby Oly » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:45 am

Zorn, I think you're right about ratings being due for a dip. Regression to the mean is probably at play here (with the mean being influenced by reduced TV watching across the US).

But in addition to the factors mentioned--and I think that politics is probably at the top of the good list here--I just wanted to toss out the idea of officiating. It is SO frustrating to watch 3 hours of a game only to see the outcome decided by a bad call. Imagine how Jets fans feel today, which is how we've felt on several occasions. I've gotten so sick of it and it's certainly led to less enthusiasm for watching the game.
User avatar
Oly
Legacy
 
Posts: 765
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:01 pm
Location: Middle of cornfields

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby RiverDog » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:35 am

FolkCrusader wrote:The part you missed River that TV viewing is (and has been for quite a few years) going down in nearly every age group. The only group that is growing is 65+. The younger age groups, 12-17, 18-24, and 25-34 reduce TV viewing 10%-15% per year. Football still dominates TV ratings, it's just that TV gets less and less popular every year.

I have no doubt all of these things have an affect as well, but the main issue is a reduction in viewership overall.


I didn't quite miss it. I did note that the ratings is being affected by advancements in new technology, specifically internet streaming. The younger generation is much more likely to watch via the internet rather than traditional cable or satellite TV. And to add onto your observation, there's a lot more entertainment stuff to compete with live television nowadays. Gaming continues to grow. Television networks have done away with their midweek soap operas and game shows and are having to turn to infomercials to generate revenue. So you're exactly right. Clearly, there's a new paradigm.

But MLB operates in the same environment as the NFL but is not similarly affected by the changing viewing habits of the younger generation. This season, MLB's television ratings in their regular season is up 5% over last year and there's every indication that their post season, with teams from the 3 largest markets in the LCS, will do well, too.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown ... 1536413799

Something else is at work.
User avatar
RiverDog
Legacy
 
Posts: 23995
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:52 am
Location: Kennewick, WA, 99338

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby RiverDog » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:46 am

Zorn76 wrote:The Politics are definitely affecting it, but the NFL was due for a ratings dip anyway.
They have enjoyed (i.e. raped and pillaged fans:) a 10% increase or so in profits, based on billions of dollars of revenue, for the last several years. It was bound to happen.

That said, fans (myself included), are Sick of politics invading the game. I'll always watch, but this has been one of the least enjoyable seasons I've experienced.

Fortunately, no matter how worthy the cause or discussions generated, the story goes away. It's too hard to sustain season after season anyway. They'll eventually determine they've made their point, lick the index finger, and chalk up the 'win'.


I think that's part of it, too. The NFL has seen a mercurial rise in popularity starting in the early 60's and continuing until just a few years ago. Every business goes through spurts of growth and downturns. The NFL was overdue for a downturn. They couldn't reasonably expect their phenomenal increase to go on forever.

10-4 on the politics. I'm sick of it. I couldn't give two hoots in hell about Michael Bennett or Colin Kaepernick's grievances. It has to be having a negative effect if a life long dedicated football fan like myself is a couple of losing seasons away from tuning out.
User avatar
RiverDog
Legacy
 
Posts: 23995
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:52 am
Location: Kennewick, WA, 99338

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:04 am

A month ago there were exactly 4 players sitting out the anthem. Then the jackass popped off about SOB's and half the league kneeled including some owners. The rabid base gorged on the red meat provide by Trump and then Pence and the boycott picked up serious steam. No doubt its a huge factor. I would guess Trump fans made up a disproportionally high percentage of NFL fans to begin with.

I hope it turns around. The boycotters aren't hurting the billionaire owners or players as bad as they are the hot dog venders, the restaurant owners, the beer vendors. When it affects advertising revenue then its going to be a different story.
Its appalling what has been done to my sport and I blame everyone starting with Goodell who should have put a stop to this a year and a half ago.If he "thinks "players should stand what is the problem? If I think one of my employee's should do something they do it or they are no longer employed.

Entertainment is a democracy, not a dictatorship. Even though public sentiment overall shifted 10% in players favor after Trumps comments it still stands at 60% who oppose players sitting and believe they should be required to stand.When you are p!$$ing off 60% of your fans its got to have an impact.

I also agree with the quality of the game being down. Frankly I think the CBA reductions in padded practice lead to teams that are inconsistent on the field, coupled with the constant churn of FA anymore. Much as I love the sport I find myself nodding off with some of these boring messy games.Having the giants at 1-5 , Cowboys lackluster, even the Pats are down a bit just all doesn't help

Last but not least the complete cluster that is the SoCal football scene with 2 horrible teams and an underperforming one on their way to Vegas is a complete joke. Nobody wants the chargers there at all and polls showed that and it was still approved. And the CEO of the league makes 25 million or so a year.
FIRE GOODELL. start there.
+
Hawktawk
Legacy
 
Posts: 8481
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:57 am

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby idhawkman » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:58 am

Hawktawk wrote:A month ago there were exactly 4 players sitting out the anthem. Then the jackass popped off about SOB's and half the league kneeled including some owners. The rabid base gorged on the red meat provide by Trump and then Pence and the boycott picked up serious steam. No doubt its a huge factor. I would guess Trump fans made up a disproportionally high percentage of NFL fans to begin with.
+

Ya think? A violent sport made up of alpha males where hard hits are cheered. Sounds like a lot of NRA and military folk to me.

Before anyone says that they are NRA or ex-military and they don't agree about the standing, you are the exception, not the rule.

Also, keep in mind that even 40% is a big loss to the NFL. 40% support for the President is great on the other hand.

I hope it turns around. The boycotters aren't hurting the billionaire owners or players as bad as they are the hot dog venders, the restaurant owners, the beer vendors. When it affects advertising revenue then its going to be a different story.
Its appalling what has been done to my sport and I blame everyone starting with Goodell who should have put a stop to this a year and a half ago.If he "thinks "players should stand what is the problem? If I think one of my employee's should do something they do it or they are no longer employed.


It won't hurt the owners as much as the players. The owners are going to cut coaches salaries and staff's salaries, etc. The league will have to cut each team's salary cap which will hurt the veteran players who are on their 2nd and 3rd contracts the most. Rookie contracts will be what is kept while shedding the big name players to save cap space to field a team.

On the other hand, Trump mentioning this has escalated the topic to the forefront for how many weeks now? The problem is, the players don't know exactly what they want out of the protest. Jake Long is giving up all 16 weeks of this year's salary to schools and education in Boston, St. Louis and Philly (the team's he plays in or has played on). I don't see any other grand stander putting up one dime of their money. They always want it to be everyone else's money but they take the credit for demanding it from them.
User avatar
idhawkman
Legacy
 
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:00 am

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby kalibane » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:33 pm

It's a combination of a lot of things. In no particular order this is why I believe the NFL is losing ratings.

1. Over Saturation. Football used to be a two day thing. You spent 9 hours a week watching it if you wanted to see everything you could. (6 hours on Sunday and 3 on Monday. And Monday Night felt special. Thanksgiving felt special. Saturday playoff games felt special. Now they've added Thursday games every week, a Sunday Night Game and London Games. Meaning if you were to watch all the games available you're watching 18 hours of football instead of 9. It's only natural that people would start picking and choosing which games they are watching (especially as attention spans get shorter) which spreads the ratings thin.

2. Greed... as someone else highlighted. Cable/Sat. providers are out of controls. They have near monopolies on the TV market and their pricing models reflect it. People are tired of paying the equivalent of a monthly car note to watch TV. At a certain point (especially with millennials with mountains of student loan debt) people are willing to sacrifice live sports and cut the cord.

3. Protests. There are people on both sides of this who have specifically tuned out this year. The people mad about players protesting are getting all the headlines but there are a lot of people who are also boycotting because Kaepernick is unemployed. Combined it's going to represent a slight dip. I don't think this is close to the biggest factor though.

4. Overall quality of the product. Football is flat out bad right now. Rules are unclear. Play is sloppy. There is no consistency in which teams are good from week to week. People are apathetic.

5. Image of the league. The protests are just the last in a steady series of issues the league has been dealing with on player behavior, be it domestic violence, child abuse, murder and suicide. The handling of these matters is completely arbitrary and swings back and forth between apathy to unbelievably heavy handed. A man choked a woman and literally threw her on a pile of guns and he was suspended for 6 games? Meanwhile, stupid as the player may be, you see guys suspended a year for weed. It's ridiculous.

6. Too controlling of players (which ties into Riv's lack of stars). Yes Brady, Aaron Rodgers et al are stars in the way the league wants their stars to be. But they are completely cardboard. Most people neither love them nor hate them. The love or hate they receive is largely based on ideas about them promoted by talking heads on TV. So for example you don't really hate Tom Brady, you just hate that Chris Collinsworth can't stop gushing about him on TV. The Seahawks are virtually the only "colorful" team in the NFL and even they've lost a good bit of their edge. The league tries way too hard to stifle individuality in order to keep salaries in check. But the consequence is that their most marketable products aren't being used. In contrast with the NBA, people go out of their way to watch bad teams just to see stars. A bunch of people tuned into ESPN last night to watch a team (76ers) who hasn't been in the playoffs for something like 15 years and may not make them this year, just to see the young stars that they allowed to have personalities. It'd be like the equivalent of people tuning in specifically to watch the Jaguars which as we know, just doesn't happen.

7. Back to Greed... but on the NFL rather than Cable Companies. They are so ridiculously protective of their copyrighted material, they immediately have videos taken down from You Tube and send cease and desist letters when stuff pops up on You Tube, which sure is their right but it's penny wise pound foolish because there aren't a lot of people who are paying to buy DVDs anymore. Other sports realized a long time ago that people posting content on YouTube only enhanced their profile and increased interest (particularly relevant with cord cutting because cord cutters watch YouTube).

8. Safety. The Concussion stuff is really hurting them. Not everywhere. Obviously youth football is still huge in some parts of the country but there are millions of kids who are being funneled into other sports now. And when you aren't playing it, you don't care as much. We are starting to see a lot of those kids find their way into adulthood now and the NFL just isn't a big deal to them.

I honestly think they made a lot of decisions about how to organize and market the sport without looking at the horizon and the changing landscape of popular culture. They took for granted that they'd always be king and their growing numbers would always grow. The places they tried to expand their reach don't make sense (expansion in London). It's a lot of old fashioned thinking.
kalibane
Legacy
 
Posts: 1495
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:42 pm

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:51 pm

kalibane wrote:It's a combination of a lot of things. In no particular order this is why I believe the NFL is losing ratings.

1. Over Saturation. Football used to be a two day thing. You spent 9 hours a week watching it if you wanted to see everything you could. (6 hours on Sunday and 3 on Monday. And Monday Night felt special. Thanksgiving felt special. Saturday playoff games felt special. Now they've added Thursday games every week, a Sunday Night Game and London Games. Meaning if you were to watch all the games available you're watching 18 hours of football instead of 9. It's only natural that people would start picking and choosing which games they are watching (especially as attention spans get shorter) which spreads the ratings thin.

2. Greed... as someone else highlighted. Cable/Sat. providers are out of controls. They have near monopolies on the TV market and their pricing models reflect it. People are tired of paying the equivalent of a monthly car note to watch TV. At a certain point (especially with millennials with mountains of student loan debt) people are willing to sacrifice live sports and cut the cord.

3. Protests. There are people on both sides of this who have specifically tuned out this year. The people mad about players protesting are getting all the headlines but there are a lot of people who are also boycotting because Kaepernick is unemployed. Combined it's going to represent a slight dip. I don't think this is close to the biggest factor though.

4. Overall quality of the product. Football is flat out bad right now. Rules are unclear. Play is sloppy. There is no consistency in which teams are good from week to week. People are apathetic.

5. Image of the league. The protests are just the last in a steady series of issues the league has been dealing with on player behavior, be it domestic violence, child abuse, murder and suicide. The handling of these matters is completely arbitrary and swings back and forth between apathy to unbelievably heavy handed. A man choked a woman and literally threw her on a pile of guns and he was suspended for 6 games? Meanwhile, stupid as the player may be, you see guys suspended a year for weed. It's ridiculous.

6. Too controlling of players (which ties into Riv's lack of stars). Yes Brady, Aaron Rodgers et al are stars in the way the league wants their stars to be. But they are completely cardboard. Most people neither love them nor hate them. The love or hate they receive is largely based on ideas about them promoted by talking heads on TV. So for example you don't really hate Tom Brady, you just hate that Chris Collinsworth can't stop gushing about him on TV. The Seahawks are virtually the only "colorful" team in the NFL and even they've lost a good bit of their edge. The league tries way too hard to stifle individuality in order to keep salaries in check. But the consequence is that their most marketable products aren't being used. In contrast with the NBA, people go out of their way to watch bad teams just to see stars. A bunch of people tuned into ESPN last night to watch a team (76ers) who hasn't been in the playoffs for something like 15 years and may not make them this year, just to see the young stars that they allowed to have personalities. It'd be like the equivalent of people tuning in specifically to watch the Jaguars which as we know, just doesn't happen.

7. Back to Greed... but on the NFL rather than Cable Companies. They are so ridiculously protective of their copyrighted material, they immediately have videos taken down from You Tube and send cease and desist letters when stuff pops up on You Tube, which sure is their right but it's penny wise pound foolish because there aren't a lot of people who are paying to buy DVDs anymore. Other sports realized a long time ago that people posting content on YouTube only enhanced their profile and increased interest (particularly relevant with cord cutting because cord cutters watch YouTube).

8. Safety. The Concussion stuff is really hurting them. Not everywhere. Obviously youth football is still huge in some parts of the country but there are millions of kids who are being funneled into other sports now. And when you aren't playing it, you don't care as much. We are starting to see a lot of those kids find their way into adulthood now and the NFL just isn't a big deal to them.

I honestly think they made a lot of decisions about how to organize and market the sport without looking at the horizon and the changing landscape of popular culture. They took for granted that they'd always be king and their growing numbers would always grow. The places they tried to expand their reach don't make sense (expansion in London). It's a lot of old fashioned thinking.


Very well put...
Hawktawk
Legacy
 
Posts: 8481
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:57 am

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby idhawkman » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:55 pm

kalibane wrote:I honestly think they made a lot of decisions about how to organize and market the sport without looking at the horizon and the changing landscape of popular culture. They took for granted that they'd always be king and their growing numbers would always grow. The places they tried to expand their reach don't make sense (expansion in London). It's a lot of old fashioned thinking.


They aren't the only ones - just the latest in a long list of companies not looking at what is coming at them. Can you believe that Toys-R-Us is going bankrupt right before the holiday season? They totally missed that market change.

Walmart, Best Buy etc on the disruptive change of touch technology (you can't hardly find a desktop, tower or even a laptop at any of those stores anymore).

Bezos is the richest guy in the world now. I remember his stupid commercials wanting to rent out stadiums and other things when he was shipping just books and VHS tapes... Its funny how fast market transitions happen now.
User avatar
idhawkman
Legacy
 
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:00 am

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby RiverDog » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:53 am

kalibane wrote:It's a combination of a lot of things. In no particular order this is why I believe the NFL is losing ratings.

1. Over Saturation. Football used to be a two day thing. You spent 9 hours a week watching it if you wanted to see everything you could. (6 hours on Sunday and 3 on Monday. And Monday Night felt special. Thanksgiving felt special. Saturday playoff games felt special. Now they've added Thursday games every week, a Sunday Night Game and London Games. Meaning if you were to watch all the games available you're watching 18 hours of football instead of 9. It's only natural that people would start picking and choosing which games they are watching (especially as attention spans get shorter) which spreads the ratings thin.

2. Greed... as someone else highlighted. Cable/Sat. providers are out of controls. They have near monopolies on the TV market and their pricing models reflect it. People are tired of paying the equivalent of a monthly car note to watch TV. At a certain point (especially with millennials with mountains of student loan debt) people are willing to sacrifice live sports and cut the cord.

3. Protests. There are people on both sides of this who have specifically tuned out this year. The people mad about players protesting are getting all the headlines but there are a lot of people who are also boycotting because Kaepernick is unemployed. Combined it's going to represent a slight dip. I don't think this is close to the biggest factor though.

4. Overall quality of the product. Football is flat out bad right now. Rules are unclear. Play is sloppy. There is no consistency in which teams are good from week to week. People are apathetic.

5. Image of the league. The protests are just the last in a steady series of issues the league has been dealing with on player behavior, be it domestic violence, child abuse, murder and suicide. The handling of these matters is completely arbitrary and swings back and forth between apathy to unbelievably heavy handed. A man choked a woman and literally threw her on a pile of guns and he was suspended for 6 games? Meanwhile, stupid as the player may be, you see guys suspended a year for weed. It's ridiculous.

6. Too controlling of players (which ties into Riv's lack of stars). Yes Brady, Aaron Rodgers et al are stars in the way the league wants their stars to be. But they are completely cardboard. Most people neither love them nor hate them. The love or hate they receive is largely based on ideas about them promoted by talking heads on TV. So for example you don't really hate Tom Brady, you just hate that Chris Collinsworth can't stop gushing about him on TV. The Seahawks are virtually the only "colorful" team in the NFL and even they've lost a good bit of their edge. The league tries way too hard to stifle individuality in order to keep salaries in check. But the consequence is that their most marketable products aren't being used. In contrast with the NBA, people go out of their way to watch bad teams just to see stars. A bunch of people tuned into ESPN last night to watch a team (76ers) who hasn't been in the playoffs for something like 15 years and may not make them this year, just to see the young stars that they allowed to have personalities. It'd be like the equivalent of people tuning in specifically to watch the Jaguars which as we know, just doesn't happen.

7. Back to Greed... but on the NFL rather than Cable Companies. They are so ridiculously protective of their copyrighted material, they immediately have videos taken down from You Tube and send cease and desist letters when stuff pops up on You Tube, which sure is their right but it's penny wise pound foolish because there aren't a lot of people who are paying to buy DVDs anymore. Other sports realized a long time ago that people posting content on YouTube only enhanced their profile and increased interest (particularly relevant with cord cutting because cord cutters watch YouTube).

8. Safety. The Concussion stuff is really hurting them. Not everywhere. Obviously youth football is still huge in some parts of the country but there are millions of kids who are being funneled into other sports now. And when you aren't playing it, you don't care as much. We are starting to see a lot of those kids find their way into adulthood now and the NFL just isn't a big deal to them.

I honestly think they made a lot of decisions about how to organize and market the sport without looking at the horizon and the changing landscape of popular culture. They took for granted that they'd always be king and their growing numbers would always grow. The places they tried to expand their reach don't make sense (expansion in London). It's a lot of old fashioned thinking.


Excellent post, my friend.

To your first point: My dad claimed that boxing killed the goose that laid the golden egg by over saturation. Back in the late 50's and early 60's, you could watch boxing on TV 5 nights a week, and that's when TV was still in its infancy. I was a toddler during that era, but I can still remember dad watching boxing telecasts, with the little stick figures superimposed on the live picture between rounds that served as commercials. Dad forecasted that the same thing was going to eventually happen to football.

And to your last point: Player safety. It's real. Parents are discouraging their sons from participating in football and pushing them towards less risky endeavors, like soccer.

Additionally, there are more and more immigrant families in this country who did not grow up with the sport like we did. I work with predominantly immigrants, perhaps as high as 70% of my crew (and consequently most of my close friends) that were not born in this country, and almost none of their kids are playing football. Also, compared to MLB, there are very few Hispanics and even fewer Asians represented in the NFL. Kids look for role models, and the natural tendency for anyone is to look for an idol or role model that looks like you as it helps with your fantasy to imagine yourself in their shoes.

The only point of yours that I'd question is your analysis of the anthem protests. I'd have to see some sort of survey of how many people are tuning out in support of the protests before I could be made to believe that there are significant numbers of viewers boycotting in support of those players. But I agree with you in that they are not the top reason for the decline.
Last edited by RiverDog on Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
RiverDog
Legacy
 
Posts: 23995
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:52 am
Location: Kennewick, WA, 99338

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby Uppercut » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:45 am

Another factor is there is no core unit a fan can be loyal to any longer. Players could be on a different team next week. In the 80's and 90's much of the core would sty together for many seasons. Look at past teams like Steelers, Raiders, Niners...etc...now its just who is the filling the hole this week? Watched Raiders last night could not get into what was a great game in reality but no one to piss me off or support. Just figures moving on the screen. Turned to the baseball game.
Uppercut
Legacy
 
Posts: 581
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:23 pm

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby NorthHawk » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:30 am

What might be the final nail in the coffin will be mothers. Those who fear concussions and won't let their kids play football.
NorthHawk
Legacy
 
Posts: 10617
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:57 am

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby Uppercut » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:33 am

In 10 years it will all be robots playing. Traded and sponsored teams like now but no humans.

or, flag football
Uppercut
Legacy
 
Posts: 581
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:23 pm

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby kalibane » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:46 am

Trust me Riv it's a thing in the black community. I'm not saying it's a huge thing but it's a thing. Between my people in my office, immediate circle of friends and people in my sports group on facebook I can think of about 25 people who aren't watching the NFL because they feel Kaepernick has been blackballed. But like I said think the impact of protests (on both sides) is overstated. People are eager to take credit for the decline in ratings because it makes them feel like their protest means something.

And yeah I can't agree more on the safety issue. When people first started throwing around that football would be dead in 25 years I scoffed. I still think that estimate is way too ambitious. But the truth of it is, even though Football was my favorite sport to watch and more importantly to play growing up, if I had a son, I don't think I would say no if he wanted to play but I would probably try to steer him towards other options. I figure if you can turn a guy like me around on the subject, maybe there is a clock on the sport and eventually it ends up in the same kind of space the boxing is in now.
kalibane
Legacy
 
Posts: 1495
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:42 pm

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby c_hawkbob » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:54 am

kalibane wrote:It's a combination of a lot of things. In no particular order this is why I believe the NFL is losing ratings.

1. Over Saturation. Football used to be a two day thing. You spent 9 hours a week watching it if you wanted to see everything you could. (6 hours on Sunday and 3 on Monday. And Monday Night felt special. Thanksgiving felt special. Saturday playoff games felt special. Now they've added Thursday games every week, a Sunday Night Game and London Games. Meaning if you were to watch all the games available you're watching 18 hours of football instead of 9. It's only natural that people would start picking and choosing which games they are watching (especially as attention spans get shorter) which spreads the ratings thin.

2. Greed... as someone else highlighted. Cable/Sat. providers are out of controls. They have near monopolies on the TV market and their pricing models reflect it. People are tired of paying the equivalent of a monthly car note to watch TV. At a certain point (especially with millennials with mountains of student loan debt) people are willing to sacrifice live sports and cut the cord.

3. Protests. There are people on both sides of this who have specifically tuned out this year. The people mad about players protesting are getting all the headlines but there are a lot of people who are also boycotting because Kaepernick is unemployed. Combined it's going to represent a slight dip. I don't think this is close to the biggest factor though.

4. Overall quality of the product. Football is flat out bad right now. Rules are unclear. Play is sloppy. There is no consistency in which teams are good from week to week. People are apathetic.

5. Image of the league. The protests are just the last in a steady series of issues the league has been dealing with on player behavior, be it domestic violence, child abuse, murder and suicide. The handling of these matters is completely arbitrary and swings back and forth between apathy to unbelievably heavy handed. A man choked a woman and literally threw her on a pile of guns and he was suspended for 6 games? Meanwhile, stupid as the player may be, you see guys suspended a year for weed. It's ridiculous.

6. Too controlling of players (which ties into Riv's lack of stars). Yes Brady, Aaron Rodgers et al are stars in the way the league wants their stars to be. But they are completely cardboard. Most people neither love them nor hate them. The love or hate they receive is largely based on ideas about them promoted by talking heads on TV. So for example you don't really hate Tom Brady, you just hate that Chris Collinsworth can't stop gushing about him on TV. The Seahawks are virtually the only "colorful" team in the NFL and even they've lost a good bit of their edge. The league tries way too hard to stifle individuality in order to keep salaries in check. But the consequence is that their most marketable products aren't being used. In contrast with the NBA, people go out of their way to watch bad teams just to see stars. A bunch of people tuned into ESPN last night to watch a team (76ers) who hasn't been in the playoffs for something like 15 years and may not make them this year, just to see the young stars that they allowed to have personalities. It'd be like the equivalent of people tuning in specifically to watch the Jaguars which as we know, just doesn't happen.

7. Back to Greed... but on the NFL rather than Cable Companies. They are so ridiculously protective of their copyrighted material, they immediately have videos taken down from You Tube and send cease and desist letters when stuff pops up on You Tube, which sure is their right but it's penny wise pound foolish because there aren't a lot of people who are paying to buy DVDs anymore. Other sports realized a long time ago that people posting content on YouTube only enhanced their profile and increased interest (particularly relevant with cord cutting because cord cutters watch YouTube).

8. Safety. The Concussion stuff is really hurting them. Not everywhere. Obviously youth football is still huge in some parts of the country but there are millions of kids who are being funneled into other sports now. And when you aren't playing it, you don't care as much. We are starting to see a lot of those kids find their way into adulthood now and the NFL just isn't a big deal to them.

I honestly think they made a lot of decisions about how to organize and market the sport without looking at the horizon and the changing landscape of popular culture. They took for granted that they'd always be king and their growing numbers would always grow. The places they tried to expand their reach don't make sense (expansion in London). It's a lot of old fashioned thinking.


Great post Kal.

My opinion is that, on a bar graph, #1 is 5 times higher than the next most impactful factor, which would be #8.

Overall I don't think there is a whole lot of concern here with most of these issues. Greed is going nowhere, it'll always be the underlying motivation for the entire ball of wax, and the concussion/safety concerns, while lamentable to us old school fans, are a permanent fixture as well.

The sociopolitical component is just a product of the times we live in and the technology of the day. This will continue to evolve and things will change, but not the ways I think most would hope. Meanwhile, TV ratings will become less and less relevant and the bean counters will find new beans to count and come to the conclusion that things ain't really so much different than they ever were as it relates to the bottom line. The NFL is going to be just fine in the long view.

And Dog, I totally disagree about boxing. Don King and PPV killed that beast. When you could watch championship fights on broadcast TV and there was only one champ per weight class; that was the golden age of boxing. Having to pay $50 to watch a decent fight and having no alternative is what created the void that MMA stepped up to fill. That's one reason the NFL never went the PPV rout and have kept a full slate of games free every every week.
User avatar
c_hawkbob
Legacy
 
Posts: 6941
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:34 pm
Location: Paducah Kentucky, 42001

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby RiverDog » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:35 am

c_hawkbob wrote:And Dog, I totally disagree about boxing. Don King and PPV killed that beast. When you could watch championship fights on broadcast TV and there was only one champ per weight class; that was the golden age of boxing. Having to pay $50 to watch a decent fight and having no alternative is what created the void that MMA stepped up to fill. That's one reason the NFL never went the PPV rout and have kept a full slate of games free every every week.


Boxing's golden age was well before Don King and PPV (they called it closed circuit television back then). In the 30's, 40', and 50's, high schools of any size used to have boxing teams, and every po dunk little town, like Dayton WA, the one that my cousin belonged to, had a boxing club, in the early 60's. By the time I hit high school in 1970, a relatively large high school, the only evidence of a boxing team was in the school trophy case and I knew of no high school in the state that had boxing teams or any town in E. Washington that had a boxing club. The first major championship PPV boxing event wasn't until 1975, the "Thrilla in Manilla", Ali vs. Frazier. By that time, participation in boxing was limited to just the inner cities.

PPV might have been the straw that broke the camel's back, but it was hardly the root cause of boxing's demise.
Last edited by RiverDog on Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
RiverDog
Legacy
 
Posts: 23995
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:52 am
Location: Kennewick, WA, 99338

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby Aseahawkfan » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:58 am

RiverDog wrote:Boxing's golden age was well before Don King and PPV (they called it closed circuit television back then). In the 30's, 40', and 50's, high schools of any size used to have boxing teams, and every po dunk little town, like Dayton WA, the one that my cousin belonged to, had a boxing club, in the early 60's. By the time I hit high school in 1970, a relatively large high school, the only evidence of a boxing team was in the school trophy case and I knew of no high school in the state that had boxing teams or any town in E. Washington that had a boxing club. The first major championship PPV boxing event wasn't until 1975, the "Thrilla in Manilla", Ali vs. Frazier.

PPV might have been the straw that broke the camel's back, but it was hardly the root cause of boxing's demise.


MMA also split the market for boxing. I stopped watching boxing when MMA became available. I want to watch fighting, not a punching sport. Then again I stopped watching MMA after it moved to rounds, started weight classes, and focused more on striking. I liked MMA when it was more like a fight between two highly trained men. Then you had a chance to see how such a fight might go and how hard it is in a real fight between trained people. Boxers got their ass kicked by MMA fighters. If you didn't know how to grapple, you were likely going to get beat down by a trained grappler.
Aseahawkfan
Legacy
 
Posts: 7327
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 12:38 am

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby Hawk Sista » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:14 am

Trust me Riv it's a thing in the black community. I'm not saying it's a huge thing but it's a thing. Between my people in my office, immediate circle of friends and people in my sports group on facebook I can think of about 25 people who aren't watching the NFL because they feel Kaepernick has been blackballed. But like I said think the impact of protests (on both sides) is overstated. People are eager to take credit for the decline in ratings because it makes them feel like their protest means something.


It is absolutely a thing. A friend of mine participated in a march in NYC to stand with Kaep and is no longer watching, a colleague does not watch for this same reason, and a woman I was meeting with on Tuesday said she used to be a Seahawk fan after seeing some memorabilia in my office. I asked her what changed and it was all about the above. That is three people I know directly who are not watching directly because of the protests, but in support of them.

I also agree that people turning away from TV in general MUST be listed as a key ingredient to these numbers.
User avatar
Hawk Sista
Legacy
 
Posts: 2429
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:58 am
Location: Central California

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby kalibane » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:18 am

I don't think MMA split the market. I think it took advantage of the vacuum in the market that boxing created when it cannibalized itself. If Boxing were a healthy sport MMA would never have taken off like it did. I say this as someone who prefers MMA to boxing.

I tend to agree with Bob about boxing. It was the systemic corruption that played the biggest part in its demise. Too many federations/belts. Too much record padding and opponent dodging. Too little free exposure to big name fighters. Boxing was dying a slow steady death and MMA was able to slide into that space.
kalibane
Legacy
 
Posts: 1495
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:42 pm

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby Aseahawkfan » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:06 pm

In no particular prioritized order:

1. Older fans: I think football fans are mostly older. 35 to 50. This is a short and long-term issue.

I believe as more older folks turn away, football's fan base will grow smaller and smaller. Anecdotally speaking, younger folks aren't as into football as older folks used to be. They prefer their video games and online videos. Physical culture is not as big a part of the younger generation's life experience. Though athletics is still a very big chance to escape a poor life for minorities (mostly Americans of African descent), it's becoming less and less interesting to them as well as their options for higher paying jobs are more substantial than previous generations. For all the cries of racism and the pretense that things haven't changed, it isn't true. Minorities have more opportunities and are more a part of the work force than in any previous generation.

And the older generation definitely has no interest in politicized football or young millionaires acting like asses. It's tiresome, and not interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if politicizing football has drawn some younger fans into the game, while pushing older fans out. To put it succinctly, watching millionaires protesting police making around 50 to 70 k a year that work in communities these athletes themselves wouldn't want to live in due to the violence inherent in those communities is annoying to say the least. These guys are not the most likable group any more. Really, it's not even just the protests. It's just the behavior in general and the way the NFL handles it. The woman beating and general criminal behavior that gets overlooked by both the NFL and the players doesn't do much to make you look at them as role models. The look at me and crybaby on the sidelines stuff isn't what older fans like either. A cop screws up in the field and there are protests, Greg Hardy beats a woman or Ben R. rapes someone in a bathroom, not a peep from the players. They are exactly like the cops they complain about protecting the brotherhood. Hard to take people like that seriously. I think this kind of hypocrisy builds up and turns fans off. Colin K. is a huge example of this cognitive dissonance. He protests, then doesn't vote. Only idiots can respect that stance.

2. Fantasy Football: I think Fantasy Football has helped quite a bit, though I'm not sure it leads to much love of the game versus following the game solely to see how your fantasy team does. Fantasy football fans likely won't stay with the game if their interest in fantasy football wanes. Is fantasy football interest waning? Do we know? If fantasy football interest is waning, that will drive down ratings. I'm not sure fantasy football players even watch games. Some I've seen track stats online or watch highlights only. Not sure what long or short-term effect it will have.

3. Piracy and The Move to Online Entertainment. The easier it is to pirate something, the less likely people are to pay. I hear many people are finding Facebook feeds with a quality football stream and downloading games later in the night or the day after. Didn't the NFL implement a watch on your phone option? Are those ratings tracked the same as TV ratings? They will be more difficult to monetize as well. As the film and entertainment industry in general is finding out, monetizing online content at the same rate as cable and mainstream TV is extremely difficult. It's too easy to find free options if the price is too high. Digital content is easy to steal and mass distribute. This is a long-term issue that will have to be figured out by the entire entertainment industry.

4. Counter-Marketing: Concussions and president calling for boycott are all counter-marketing measures that have been effective. How long this counter-marketing effect will have, I'm not sure. I don't believe this type of counter-marketing has a long-term effect. If the concussion push dies down, people wills shrug about it after a while. This is short-term for the president, but could be long-term for the concussions. I don't put much stock in the health issues. I guess people could have been dumb enough to think that physically hammering into each other wouldn't have negative long-term effects, but I'm dubious that people didn't realize this was the case. I figure this is more like the steroid talks of the 80s and similar counter-marketing movements that often prove temporary. People know that long-term, high level athletics damage the body and the more physically brutal, the more the damage. I guess this could be like the whole smoking cigarettes thing where a certain percentage of people were somehow shocked that inhaling smoke into your lungs voluntarily would cause health problems.

5. Population Demographics Changing: As was already pointed out, immigrants don't know anything about football and have near zero interest in it. If they and their children don't become interested, football will not be able to increase or maintain their fan base as the whites and blacks become a smaller percentage of the population. This is more of a long-term situation. How do you sell football to people that aren't used to this kind of physicality in sport? I don't know.

6. Alternative Entertainment Options: More people are looking elsewhere for their entertainment and sport options. I've heard of a rise Lacrosse and Soccer. The immense physicality required in football is much harder than other sports. The younger generation just isn't as into ramming into each other as they used to be. They're just as happy competing on a video game without the physicality of a sport. Those that do do athletics are happy doing something else less physically taxing and damaging than football. You can get a college education with different sports now.


I think those are the big ones.
Aseahawkfan
Legacy
 
Posts: 7327
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 12:38 am

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby Aseahawkfan » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:13 pm

kalibane wrote:I don't think MMA split the market. I think it took advantage of the vacuum in the market that boxing created when it cannibalized itself. If Boxing were a healthy sport MMA would never have taken off like it did. I say this as someone who prefers MMA to boxing.

I tend to agree with Bob about boxing. It was the systemic corruption that played the biggest part in its demise. Too many federations/belts. Too much record padding and opponent dodging. Too little free exposure to big name fighters. Boxing was dying a slow steady death and MMA was able to slide into that space.


I don't know that I agree, though it would be hard to prove one way or the other. People that used to like watch fighting had boxing or some small karate/kickboxing tournament to watch. I used to watch boxing because it was really the only sport with a couple of guys fighting to see who the better fighter was. I truly did stop watching boxing to focus on MMA. My first thought was, "Finally, real fighting." It was at that point when boxing became "boxing the sport" rather than fighting. It used to be called "Fight Night" or watching "The Fights." It was hard for me to see that after MMA was created. Once you saw boxers getting their asses whipped in more realistic fight scenarios, you lost respect for boxers, at least I did.

MMA is far closer to a real fight simulation than boxing. I think it split the market. When boxing was the only real fight in town, you watched it. If you're a fan of physical fighting and you had a choice, I think a good segment of the former boxing market turned to MMA, especially if you didn't have a boxing background.
Aseahawkfan
Legacy
 
Posts: 7327
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 12:38 am

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby kalibane » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:56 pm

I like MMA more for similar reasons. There is more nuance when you have to be proficient in more than one discipline. That being said, MMA did need boxing to be a mess to get where it is today.

MMA's explosion can be traced back to a very specific moment in time. That moment was the finale of the first season of Ultimate Fighter when Forrest Griffin fought Stephan Bonnar. Dana White freely (almost proudly) acknowledges this. And those two guys are forever taken care of by Dana White and the Fretita brothers because of that fight and what it did for the UFC. But if Boxing was still the sport it was in the days of Sugar Ray Leonard. The Ultimate Fighter is never even green lit as a show. So that fight almost certainly doesn't happen. If it does happen, it's on a PPV seen by 50,000 hardcore MMA fans instead of national TV seen by millions of casual fans and people watching out of curiosity.

MMA absolutely needed the vacuum that boxing's greed and corruption created.
kalibane
Legacy
 
Posts: 1495
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:42 pm

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby RiverDog » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:37 pm

kalibane wrote:I tend to agree with Bob about boxing. It was the systemic corruption that played the biggest part in its demise. Too many federations/belts. Too much record padding and opponent dodging. Too little free exposure to big name fighters. Boxing was dying a slow steady death and MMA was able to slide into that space.


Boxing had something else in common with modern football....safety issues. There was a boxer, Benny Paret, who in 1962 was killed in the ring when the ref froze and let a beating continue rather than stepping in to stop the fight. Being just 7 years old, I was too young to recall much about the event, but my old man used to point to it as one in which the public began to get turned off about boxing, thinking it as being too barbaric, too much like Roman gladiators.
User avatar
RiverDog
Legacy
 
Posts: 23995
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:52 am
Location: Kennewick, WA, 99338

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby Largent80 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:19 pm

Look at San Diego, a community that supported the Chargers for many decades, Their stadium was old but hardly as bad as the colesseum in L.A.

LA had zero teams for decades and now they move a beloved franchise there while the Lambs are trying to re-establish themselves. What a dumb assed decision. And the fans in SD are totally screwed because of beaurocrats.

This is the s*** that is causing people to say sayonara.
User avatar
Largent80
Legacy
 
Posts: 1745
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:38 pm
Location: Tex-ass

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby Aseahawkfan » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:17 pm

kalibane wrote:I like MMA more for similar reasons. There is more nuance when you have to be proficient in more than one discipline. That being said, MMA did need boxing to be a mess to get where it is today.

MMA's explosion can be traced back to a very specific moment in time. That moment was the finale of the first season of Ultimate Fighter when Forrest Griffin fought Stephan Bonnar. Dana White freely (almost proudly) acknowledges this. And those two guys are forever taken care of by Dana White and the Fretita brothers because of that fight and what it did for the UFC. But if Boxing was still the sport it was in the days of Sugar Ray Leonard. The Ultimate Fighter is never even green lit as a show. So that fight almost certainly doesn't happen. If it does happen, it's on a PPV seen by 50,000 hardcore MMA fans instead of national TV seen by millions of casual fans and people watching out of curiosity.

MMA absolutely needed the vacuum that boxing's greed and corruption created.


I didn't watch Ultimate Fighter. I've no doubt of your event timeline.

I think MMA would have risen in time regardless of the state of boxing. It's a more interesting "sport" than boxing. So many of us had been waiting years to see a Bloodsport style fighting competition. Martial arts truly going head to head is all kinds of awesome. I'm surprised it didn't catch on earlier. Then again I believe martial arts awareness and instruction in the United States can be tied to the rise in popularity of Bruce Lee during the 70s. Then it kept getting more and more popular and finally UFC and its like was created. I credit Bruce Lee for making martial arts popular in the West. And thus eventually spawning competitions like UFC.
Last edited by Aseahawkfan on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Aseahawkfan
Legacy
 
Posts: 7327
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 12:38 am

Re: Attendance, ratings down again

Postby RiverDog » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:26 am

Largent80 wrote:Look at San Diego, a community that supported the Chargers for many decades, Their stadium was old but hardly as bad as the colesseum in L.A.

LA had zero teams for decades and now they move a beloved franchise there while the Lambs are trying to re-establish themselves. What a dumb assed decision. And the fans in SD are totally screwed because of beaurocrats.

This is the s*** that is causing people to say sayonara.


They overestimated demand for their product in SoCal, and forgot about the cause of the Raiders and Rams leaving back in the '90's. SoCal is just not a football hotbed, plus as has been noted, the move coincided with a general downturn in interest in the NFL nationwide. The Chargers never had a huge fan base, but what base they had is gone and won't drive to LA to support them.

But this could be a blessing in disguise for us fans and taxpayers. For years, the NFL has used LA as a threat to move their franchises if taxpayers didn't pony up and buy them a new stadium. That threat no longer exists, and the league is left with essentially minor league cities like San Antonio and Portland as possible locations to move a franchise of a city that doesn't want to "play ball", plus a franchise in San Antonio would split Jerry Jones' market, and we can't have that. :lol:
User avatar
RiverDog
Legacy
 
Posts: 23995
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:52 am
Location: Kennewick, WA, 99338


Return to Seahawks Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests

cron