OT: Dirty Dolphins D?

[Oly]

I'm just curious what y'all thought of Alonso's hit on Flacco. I see it as penalty-worthy by the letter of the law, but I put the blame on Flacco. Once Alonso is at full speed and committed to a low tackle, I don't see how he could have changed direction to avoid the hit.

But Suh's choke on Mallet? Can the guy get any dirtier? The league is full of I-hate-him-on-other-teams-but-love-him-on-mine kinds of players (the Hawks have more than a couple), but Suh is one of the few I'd hate just as much on the Hawks. F that guy.

[obiken]

The worse was eye poke that is intentional.

[Oly]

The worse was eye poke that is intentional.

I wasn't watching any more when this happened, but I just checked it out this morning. You're right, that was way worse.

[c_hawkbob]

Missed the eye poke ... that's grounds for having your knee taken out as far I'm concerned. Everything else was at least on some level justifiable.

[SWA-HawkFan]

Nope...Flacco is 6'6 245. Alonso is 6'3 234. Both of them were going for the same thing. The first down marker. Flacco should have never given himself up in a slide, or certainly bailed out earlier if he was scared to take a hit.

[burrrton]

Both of them were going for the same thing. The first down marker.

Huh? Flacco was in a slide, and not even that late a slide, and the defender went for a head shot. Their relative sizes have literally nothing to do with it.

In fact, he'd have been flagged for hitting *any* player the way he did.

Say hello to a hefty fine and likely suspension, Alonso.

[RiverDog]

I'm just curious what y'all thought of Alonso's hit on Flacco. I see it as penalty-worthy by the letter of the law, but I put the blame on Flacco. Once Alonso is at full speed and committed to a low tackle, I don't see how he could have changed direction to avoid the hit.

But Suh's choke on Mallet? Can the guy get any dirtier? The league is full of I-hate-him-on-other-teams-but-love-him-on-mine kinds of players (the Hawks have more than a couple), but Suh is one of the few I'd hate just as much on the Hawks. F that guy.

I thought Alonso should have been ejected, and I fully expect a fine and suspension. If Flacco had to leave the game because of that hit, then it would have only been fair for Alonso to have been out of the game as well. Otherwise, you are rewarding the offender, particularly when it involves a competitor's franchise QB.

Flacco did start is slide just a little late, but IMO Alonso still had time to pull up some. As a defender that has been playing within those rules for quite awhile, he has to know that when the quarterback is running in the middle of the field that he's probably going to pull up and go into a slide when it's eminent that he's going to be tackled.

I'm pretty much in agreement with your appraisal of Suh, but he didn't hurt someone the way that Alonso did so I'm not going to call for the Commish to suspend him, but he should slap him with a fine. He's had a history of this chit and does not deserve the benefit of the doubt.

[Sox-n-hawks]

Flacco started to slide at the same time Kiko left his feet to hit him, IMHO he could not have stopped himself. His coaches have complained about HOW he slides forever. Lesson learned?
http://www.espn.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/32072/bottoms-down-ravens-urge-joe-flacco-to-change-scary-slides

[RiverDog]

Flacco started to slide at the same time Kiko left his feet to hit him, IMHO he could not have stopped himself. His coaches have complained about HOW he slides forever. Lesson learned?
http://www.espn.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/32072/bottoms-down-ravens-urge-joe-flacco-to-change-scary-slides

Hey, Sox! Welcome to The Shack!

I disagree about the hit. He might not have been able to stop, but he could have avoided the hit to the head.

[Sox-n-hawks]

Hey, Sox! Welcome to The Shack!

I disagree about the hit. He might not have been able to stop, but he could have avoided the hit to the head.

Thanks for the welcome! It's great to see another forum option. As for the slide, the problem with tackling someone who slides awkwardly is the theory behind how you tackle. MOST coaches teach to aim for the head, that way if they slide you miss. It normally works. BUT when someone just sits down.... a la Flacco.. this poses a problem. He should get fined for sure, but I don't think an ejection would have been warranted.

[burrrton]

Flacco started to slide at the same time Kiko left his feet to hit him, IMHO he could not have stopped himself.

He didn't do any such thing. Flacco was on his ass before Alonso left his feet and it wasn't close. Watch here:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2118 ... joe-flacco

Flacco could have given himself up earlier, but Alonso's not the first defender to encounter a QB sliding late-ish.

BUT when someone just sits down.... a la Flacco.. this poses a problem.

Ever played baseball (it's a baseball slide)? "Sitting down" is what a slide is. The only problem was Alonso trying to take the runner's head off with his shoulder.

He might not have been able to stop, but he could have avoided the hit to the head.

Exactly- we've seen our defenders do it a million times. They fly over the top, maybe using their hands to push themselves over.

[Seahawks4Ever]

Alonzo broke two rules on the play, the first was the "one step" rule. If the player making the tackle takes more than one step before the his (on a prone player) then he will get flagged. It was stated that Alonzo left his feet and launched himself into to Flacco and turned his body a then slammed him in the head with his shoulder. He should have been ejected but he will probably be fined and may even face suspension.

That IS the rules, BUT what I saw in real time was a bang bang play and Alonzo just looked as if he reacted, it wasn't like he thought 'Oh, Flacco is going down and I am going to knock him out of the game" . So, what I witnessed seemed to me ( up until I saw the play in slow motion) was just what we used to call "good old fashioned "hard nosed" football. This is reason # 457 why I believe excessive use of Instant Replay is ruining the game.

[jshawaii22]

In college, that would of been 'targeting', even though it was unavoidable.. in the pro's, that the tip-of-the-scale the other way. Maybe a fine, I doubt it, and no way he gets suspended. Unavoidable contact.

Now, Suh's WWE move of chocking the other team's QB at the end of the game, that might be a suspension!

[burrrton]

no way he gets suspended. Unavoidable contact.

If you think that contact was "unavoidable", and there was no way he could have kept his shoulder pads from knocking Flacco's helmet off, I question your experience watching football.

Watch the video in my link above, then just stop trying to defend this guy.

[jshawaii22]

nothing to defend if stopping a "runner" who happens to be a QB from getting a first down is still why we play the game. If it's come down to letting him have the first down to avoid contact, so you won't be fined and/or suspended, then so be it.

Which is it? I watched it live and I cringed for Flacco, too.

[RiverDog]

He should get fined for sure, but I don't think an ejection would have been warranted.

The reason I felt that he should have been ejected was basically an eye for an eye. Baltimore lost their quarterback for the rest of the game, and possibly for multiple games, due to an illegal hit.

Now, Suh's WWE move of chocking the other team's QB at the end of the game, that might be a suspension!

Based on his past history and his extremely lame initial excuse, I agree.

[burrrton]

nothing to defend if stopping a "runner" who happens to be a QB

They're only "'runners' who happen to be QBs" until they start to slide- then they're just QBs again. They're afforded that 'bail out', are marked down as soon as they start the slide, and are *off limits* when taking that bail out.

Not only did Alonso not respect that rule, he went for a head shot with his shoulder, and that likely would have drawn a big fine on *any* runner.

Which is it?

What do you mean? If Flacco was short of the 1st-down when he started sliding, he wasn't going to get it (they're marked down where the slide starts)- there was nothing more to "stop" at that point.

[c_hawkbob]

I thought the hit was a bit more vigorous than necessary and that if it were on a RB the 15 yard penalty would be sufficient. But rules are rules and the current rules have put a skirt on QB''s, you just can rough them up and not expect repercussions. I was surprised there was not an ejection and I expect a one game suspension.

BTW. read this morning that the hit also split Flacco's ear and that they had to sew it together as well as the concussion.

Suh's neck grab will earn him a fine. It wasn't that big a deal, he was just letting him know he wasn't about to back up no matter how in his face he got.

IMO Hayes' eye poke: https://twitter.com/WillBrinson/status/ ... 89/video/1 ... was the most eggregious thing that happened that game. I seriously hope he get's suspended as well.

[NorthHawk]

With the emphasis on protecting the QBs it's no wonder a flag was thrown and the concussion validated that assumption at the time.
I haven't seen a replay, but as a general rule once a player commits to the tackle, he can't make much of an adjustment.
The legal hitting area is below the shoulders so if he had focused on the belt and Flacco started to slide, his head will necessary enter that hitting zone.
So the question is did Alonso have time to adjust?
As we all know a hit on a QB is like red meat to a tiger for a defensive player so it's quite possible it was simply a matter of
not having the discipline to hold up when Flacco started his slide.
Alonso is the only one who really knows his intentions.

[burrrton]

Alonso is the only one who really knows his intentions.

I'm not going to pretend I can look into his heart or some such nonsense, but go to the link I provided above.

He may not have had time to stop his momentum, but he could have *easily* just sailed over him like every other defender has been doing since the slide rule went into effect, and he sure as *h3ll* could have, you know, not taken a free head shot at a player that had given himself up.

[burrrton]

BTW. read this morning that the hit also split Flacco's ear and that they had to sew it together as well as the concussion.

*Without anesthesia*.

http://ravenswire.usatoday.com/2017/10/ ... nesthesia/

I bet his favorite cocktail is rocks on rocks, in a dirty glass.

[RiverDog]

I thought the hit was a bit more vigorous than necessary and that if it were on a RB the 15 yard penalty would be sufficient. But rules are rules and the current rules have put a skirt on QB''s, you just can rough them up and not expect repercussions. I was surprised there was not an ejection and I expect a one game suspension.

BTW. read this morning that the hit also split Flacco's ear and that they had to sew it together as well as the concussion.

Suh's neck grab will earn him a fine. It wasn't that big a deal, he was just letting him know he wasn't about to back up no matter how in his face he got.

IMO Hayes' eye poke: https://twitter.com/WillBrinson/status/ ... 89/video/1 ... was the most eggregious thing that happened that game. I seriously hope he get's suspended as well.

That's pretty much my take, too. I can have a tiny bit of sympathy for Alonso. It was 3rd down and Flacco was heading for a first down inside the 10, his slide was a little late, and he stayed a little too upright. But nevertheless, Alonso did have a chance to pull up. You could see his body angle down after Flacco was in his slide.

Had it not been for Suh's history, the neck grab on Mallett wouldn't have generated much interest. If it wasn't for his BS excuse, I might have been inclined not to even fine him.

Agreed about the eyepoke, although the injury to Flacco had the larger impact on the game, perhaps the rest of the Raven's season. Harbaugh could be on the hot seat if the Ravens don't make the playoffs, and if they lose Flacco for a couple of games, that becomes much more problematic.

[Oly]

He didn't do any such thing. Flacco was on his ass before Alonso left his feet and it wasn't close. Watch here:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2118 ... joe-flacco

Flacco could have given himself up earlier, but Alonso's not the first defender to encounter a QB sliding late-ish.

This angle is wider than the others I've seen and, unlike in the broadcast, I was able to watch it more carefully. I agree with you now; Flacco starts the slide 5 yards away from Alonso, and I think Alonso could have stayed high and went over Flacco. But at the end he clearly is still aiming for him. I don't think he was aiming for the head, but he had time to change his angle somehow and he didn't.

[jshawaii22]

what video are you all watching? The one that's linked shows Flacco is full forward at the 13-12 yard line and only when Kiko comes into his vision, running full speed AT HIM, did Flacco 'stumble' / drop down right at the 10, where he was whacked by Kiko. When you're running full speed at someone, who is running at you, also at full speed, your reaction time is cut in half, just like driving a car.

He's never been known to be a 'dirty' player. Certainly not like Cincinnati's dirty D and others.

[burrrton]

what video are you all watching?

[edit- they seem to have changed to content of the page- video used to be at the top- click around, though- you'll find it]

Watch it at the 5 second mark and pause it, then advance it frame by frame- it's clear as day Flacco was sliding, and clear as day Alonso never has any intention but to take his head off.

No idea why you feel compelled to defend this. He sees Flacco starting to slide, he doesn't alter his actions an iota, and he literally lowers his shoulder into Flacco's head. This idea that Alonso had no choice but to do that defies both experience and reason.

He's never been known to be a 'dirty' player.

FTR, I'm not saying he's a dirty player. Just that this was a dirty hit.

[Sox-n-hawks]

Because Flacco is a graceful slider right? HHAHAHAH said no one EVER. As a matter of fact, he's been routinely criticized for being a terrible slider. I say the real answer is to take the slide rule out. Change it to, "Once a QB crosses the line of scrimmage they become a runner." Period.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/orioles-catcher-offers-to-give-joe-flacco-sliding-lesson/ar-AAk118s

[NorthHawk]

I couldn't find a link, either but stumbled upon one on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4M1O0X5488

[SWA-HawkFan]

Huh? Flacco was in a slide, and not even that late a slide, and the defender went for a head shot. Their relative sizes have literally nothing to do with it.

In fact, he'd have been flagged for hitting *any* player the way he did.

Say hello to a hefty fine and likely suspension, Alonso.

Watch how Watson slid in the Hawks game yesterday. That's how giving yourself up is. Flacco was trying for the first down, and got hit. It was brutal, but it's football

[burrrton]

Watch how Watson slid in the Hawks game yesterday.

I don't need to- I both played D1 baseball *and* watch the NFL regularly. I know good and well what a slide is.

Flacco was trying for the first down, and got hit.

JFC for the last time: there was no "stopping him" once the slide started- he either already had the 1st-down or he wasn't going to get it (QBs are 'stopped' by definition wherever the slide starts).

Just stop.